|
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 58
Location: Montreal | Happy July 4th from this Canadian!
Most of the Ovations that I have played over the years were played plugged-in. Most of the time these days, I play unplugged. Nonetheless, I like possessing guitars that offer the acoustic/electric option,
I currently have a Collectors 1996, and have had a 1619 (circa. 1985). I'm thinking a lot about Adamases. The question for me is:
- does the Adamas truly offer a sweeter sustaining sound than a higher end Ovation? and;
-what Ovation have the sweetest sustained sound unplugged? and;
-is it unreasonable for me expect an Ovation or Adamas (unplugged) to sound as sweet as my old Taylor 810?
Your comments please!
Collectors 1996
Taylor 810
Guild D55
Guild D 40
Martin J12-16Gt |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | How old? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 58
Location: Montreal | Hi:
My Taylor was built in 1993. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Yes, It's unreasonable to expect an Adamas to sound like a Taylor. They are completely different instruments with vastly different materials and construction. You may dislike the sound of the Adamas as compared to your Taylor, but that doesn't mean they Taylor is better. It depends on what you prefer and what you want to hear. Personally if any of my Ovations or Adamas sounded like any Taylor I've played I'd sell the lot and find something else. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | My Custom Adamas out-sustains ANY guitar I've every played, including my big bodied Lowden 'O25'- which goes on for days at time. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | can you compare an apple to an orange?
carbon fiber is different than wood.
case closed. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by alpep:
case closed. Would that be an OFC carbon fibre case, Al? :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Personal preference is going to be your decideing factor so most of what we all think is not worth much in the end. And people do compare these guitars all the time......... Here-goes
I have two Adamas 1 cutaways now. They each have a slightly different acoustic sound. I also happen to have a Deep Bowl Custom Legend and a music partner who is a big Taylor fan. He has two 814's at least I think that is the numbers they use. He tried a Taylor 914 at the shop while I was with him, hell he tried them all that night, but the 914 at $5,300 did not sound as good as his second 814 he bought that night.
My legend (TO ME)sounds just great next to the Taylor to be honest it is slightly louder and the acoustic characteristics are very good. It has a good high end regester and the low end booms enough that it can stand up fine in a duo with this $2,500 Taylor fairly well. Considering it is 1 & 1/2 times cheaper I'd say it is a fantastic guitar for the price. Not quite the "taylor killer" though but better than any traditional guitar I have heard..... for the same price. And it looks fantastic!
The Adamas guitars I have (To Me and Many Others) are cannons compared with the Taylor. It is embarrasing the number of people who speak with me after Aaron & I have played a song or two together and they mention how good my guitars sound and look. An Adamas 1 or 2 with the textured top's are way louder unplugged all the way across the spectrum, and to me they have a very impressive "BIG" sound. I found the Taylor's, Aaron has, to be great guitars but just not as much presence when in the same room as an Adamas.
He had never heard an Older Adamas until the day we played together, we were playing in a large room with five other musicians (unplugged) and His Taylor and My Ovation were the two that cut through all the other guitars there.
From what I can tell using my 12 string non cutaway Adamas 1 1688.....the older bodied 1687's and 88's have an even bigger sound if that is possible but you loose the upper fret access.
SO if your thinking of an Adamas to use in comparison with a Taylor. And your looking for a standard length neck and cutaway body for lots of fret work...your in the same boat as I found myself a few years ago. You'll need one of the older Adamas configurations. These new slotheads are about the best there is but non cutaway. The W597's are good too but just do not have the same kick the older textured tops seem to have. There are some other Adamas's out there that I have not tried but not many with this body style.
Again this is just IMHO you will get a lot of other opinions in here. I almost bought a Taylor to replace my Custom Legend but why????? those mutli sound holes look so good compared to the traditional style there is no comparison. The Ovations are off the charts for looks........and I am telling you the truth........I get comments all the time on how beautiful the fadded blue top guitars with the leafed sound holes look when I am outplaying. And the Taylor's that sound the best start at $2,500 and go way up from there. My older Adamas 1's have all been in the $2,000- $2,500 range. I did have to updtate the electronics a little to compete with the Taylors plugged in. But that is OK.... my tree band EQ from the early 80's still sounded great! 30 year old technology and it still could compete! The newer electronics stuff is outstanding! But I always liked the OP24+ units myself with the pre shape button. all I need.
For what it's worth start looking and buy yourself one.
And in case you did not know it, Al the guy in the earlier post seems to find these older Adamas guitars all the time. Contact him...he just sounds grumpy and mean but he's really not.He's usually only Mean.....! He may have one for sale.
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Asking on a fan site if an Ovamas will sound better/different/worse than your Taylor will most likely not get you a very objective answer.
That being said, take any 10 guitars and throw away the names. They'll all sound different. And the way they sound different to you will be different than the way the sound different to me.
"Fans" of anything tend to be very miopic. They believe universally that anything associated with their brand (band, team, city, whatever) is by default superior. I used to feel this way about Ovation. Anything that said "Ovation" on it was superior and everything else sucked. How wrong was that.
Now I'm older, wiser, and don't give a damn what it says on the headstock of my guitar (as long it it doesn't say Taylor) and I just play and collect what appeals to ME. In retrospect 90% of all the ovation guitars I have owned have been "average" at best. Some have been steller.
One exception to the rule of variation is the textured top adamas I and II guitars. I have NEVER owned or even heard one that was not outstanding. Maybe not in the league of some wooden guitars, but DAMN, DAMN NICE !!!
Look at it this way, for the $3500. you'll pay for a decent wooden guitar you can buy THREE ovations. Play all three and then throw away the two you like least. You'll still be ahead of the game.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | What do you mean by sweet? Since sound is a very subjective thing, the only way for to know the difference is for you to go play them.
Actually, the Taylor is a rather soul-less sounding instrument, so yeah, any ovation, including the celebrities will sound sweeter. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Randy, be careful, I have a trademark on the "Cannon" name. :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Never played an Adamas...
All guitar sound different. Even my modest guitars sound different while they may look quite similar. (two SSB that look quite similar but sound different... 1621 and 1121 sound different)
I was in the Acoustic booth at the store, listening to people who can actually play...
To me, the $900 Breedlove sounded way better than the $5000 Martin. It is all subjective.
[but for $5000, you might wanna convince yourself that the Martin is better :rolleyes: ] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| somtyms I get ta typin and my figers get ta tappin and it gits hard to count all the "N's" and ya only got a few mints ta get in dere and fixem becuz the rules are tugh round here. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | You might look for a 1581 Reissue. They have the new 2 knob electronics which I feel sound better than the old 2 knobbers and they sound fantastic.
Nice black textured top cutaway. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 58
Location: Montreal | I just wanted to thank Northcountry for his very helpful and well-thoughtout comments. They were very helpful for someone who is trying to keep an open mind to innovative guitar construction but also finds merit in traditional guitar sounds. Thus Northcountry's lengthy Adamas/Taylor comparison was helpful.
I know that tonal appreciation is largly subjective but not totally subjective. Seasoned guitarist look for an amalgam of tonal responses in their guitars. Some guitars just don't have it.
For someone like me who will only possess 4 or 5 guitars, the discussion was significant.
Thanks Northcountry for the sensitivity and care in your response.
Jeff |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I believe that I am in the minority on this, but I don’t really pay much attention to a guitar's acoustic tone. I only play unplugged when I’m practicing by myself late at night, in which event I am behind the guitar where the sound isn’t really true, and even if it was true, I practice to familiarize myself with the notes and chord transitions, not to hear beautiful tone. I tend to give all Ovation and Adamas models an automatic green light on tone, then judge them on their looks and playability. I'll take other people's advice on acoustic tone before I'll take my own because, since I primarily play plugged in, the acoustic only tone always sounds too weak and shallow for my ears. Unamplified acoustic guitars of decent quality all sound relatively similar to me. I've played every acoustic guitar hanging in the expensive room at a number of GCs and I rarely can hear much difference in their relative sound. Come to think of it, with almost 40 years of motorcycle riding, everything nowadays pretty much sounds weak and shallow. Use ear protection! It is interesting to observe how many symphony orchestra players use earplugs during a concert. Maybe they just don't like listening to the big tuba on their left or the trombones in back of them. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I agree with you on the ear protection. I wear ear plugs when playing at concert volume, and I bring them to concerts and movies, and use them if I need them. My ears thank me.
The best way to hear a guitar is to have someone else play it, and stand across from him. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I very much perceive the various tone/flavors while playing unplugged.
It makes a difference to me. Wood topped AD-II or UTE... good is good. Maybe Brad you don't hear much of a difference because all the guitars you have are top drawer. Picking up my 3/4 size, shallow bowl Trekker helps me to really appreciate a good guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | I've found, when I have time to spend playing more than one of my guitars, if I start with the UTE, everything else sounds kind of pale. If I start with the Koa, it sounds really sweet. If I end with the Koa, after playing the 1537, the UTE, or even the 97 collectors, it sounds muted. Am I making any sense here? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Sounds like you have too many guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Now thats funny, Dave. :p |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15674
Location: SoCal | Tup, aren't you supposed to be on a plane heading east? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | I gotta "Giv-it-up" to Randy. The man did answer well the question...
but then, you'd really have to own a Taylor. ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 1132
Location: Parrish, FL | Brad,
I've got the same observation. I played all three of my critters last night, starting withthe FD-14, followed by the UTE, and last the 1537.
First I need to say that the FUD is everything anyone has ever said it would be. I have new 1818's on it and it is a bit bright, but the tone is even and balanced with sustain that I haven't seen before, not even on the UTE. The FUD is new to me, but is definately my favorite in sound, and playablity.
The UTE is very similar, but with the famous Adamas sound. Oh and LOUD too!
It doesn't play as smooth as the FUD (different finish on the neck), but is still quite nice. I do need to adjust a slight buzz out of it on the #1 and #2 strings.
Last, the 1537. This is truely a remarkable guitar, but playing following the other two just isn't fair. The 1537 is a whole 'nother flavor. A guitar you pick up to match the mood of the music. I don't have the experience to explain further, but I now 'get it' when someone says that "I have this guitar for these songs and these others for other musings".
Back to the original thoughts from Brad, they are all great, just be carefull of which order you play them in, or at least have the right song ready when you pick up each guitar.
Blues |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Tup, aren't you supposed to be on a plane heading east? Nope, leaving tonight on a redeye.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Yeah train's better nowadays you gotta figure they'll find the dope at all the airport security checks!
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Japan | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Asking on a fan site if an Ovamas will sound better/different/worse than your Taylor will most likely not get you a very objective answer.
That being said, take any 10 guitars and throw away the names. They'll all sound different. And the way they sound different to you will be different than the way the sound different to me.
"Fans" of anything tend to be very miopic. They believe universally that anything associated with their brand (band, team, city, whatever) is by default superior. I used to feel this way about Ovation. Anything that said "Ovation" on it was superior and everything else sucked. How wrong was that.
Now I'm older, wiser, and don't give a damn what it says on the headstock of my guitar (as long it it doesn't say Taylor) and I just play and collect what appeals to ME. In retrospect 90% of all the ovation guitars I have owned have been "average" at best. Some have been steller.
One exception to the rule of variation is the textured top adamas I and II guitars. I have NEVER owned or even heard one that was not outstanding. Maybe not in the league of some wooden guitars, but DAMN, DAMN NICE !!!
Look at it this way, for the $3500. you'll pay for a decent wooden guitar you can buy THREE ovations. Play all three and then throw away the two you like least. You'll still be ahead of the game.
Dave Well then you stand as an exception to your own post, as does Northcountry and myself.
I've always felt the only guitar for me was an Adamas (that's right, I don't like Ovations) but when friends ask me what guitar they should get, I've always suggested getting a guitar they like, preferably used.
an4340 What do you mean by sweet? Since sound is a very subjective thing, the only way for to know the difference is for you to go play them.
Actually, the Taylor is a rather soul-less sounding instrument, so yeah, any ovation, including the celebrities will sound sweeter. I fully agree with your first paragraph and not at all with the second one.
I've really liked the Taylors I've played and absolutely cannot stand the tone of any Celebrity, Matrix or Applause.
Really annoying when one of my friends came to me with his new Celebrity announcing that he had the exact same guitar as my SMT!
Anyway, in reply to Folkstone, I believe the SMT's to have the sweetest sound, although I have a preference for the original textured topped Adamas I & II's. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Akami:
I believe the SMT's to have the sweetest sound, Please, define your aural concept of "sweet" in quantifiable, non-subjective terms, with reference points that someone other yourself may be able to relate to.
I guarantee that you can not.
A wise man once said "Talking about sound makes as much sense as dancing about architecture" |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Next time your over here, remind me to show you my interpretive dance in tribute to the Chrysler Building . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Is that the one with the flapping and the points? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | No, that's the MetLife Building . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Japan | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by Akami:
I believe the SMT's to have the sweetest sound, Please, define your aural concept of "sweet" in quantifiable, non-subjective terms, with reference points that someone other yourself may be able to relate to.
I guarantee that you can not.
A wise man once said "Talking about sound makes as much sense as dancing about architecture"
I made a statement based on my own senses.
And that was no wise man. It was an idiot talking about talking.
Use your brain for half a second and you'll realize there's much more sense to be had talking about virtually anything than there is in "dancing about architecture".
Cute phrase, no content. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Akami:
Well then you stand as an exception to your own post ... Huh? How can I be an exception to my own post, when I am the one who posted it? That's like saying I don't look anything like me ...
Anyway, this is all fun but I have no idea where this is going. EVERYBODY has different tastes, likes, dislikes, expectations, budgets, intended uses, hearing, etc. etc. etc. In the end the fact that someone thinks this one is sweet, that one is lifeless, this one is overpriced, the other one is plastic, blah, blah, blah who really cares. Imagine if the store only sold one color of paint and every shopper was really in love with that color. Boy oh boy, what fun.
Personally I get a kick out of the fact that my favorite guitar is XYZ and my good friend completely disagrees. And another member here is a big fan of ABC guitars and I think they blow. It's what keeps the world interesting.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Those XYZs suck. ABCs rule!!!!
BTW is Alaska really in Japan or are you making territorial claims again? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by schroeder:
Those XYZs suck. ABCs rule!!!! I would prefer that you put that in quantifiable terms. Like, XYZ's REALLY suck ...
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Sure, XYZs suck but do they... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Adamas and rainsong could be compared.
In General most quality guitars will sound geed.
They all sound different |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Japan | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Originally posted by Akami:
Well then you stand as an exception to your own post ... Huh? How can I be an exception to my own post, when I am the one who posted it? That's like saying I don't look anything like me ...Dave
My original reply had been intended not to be a negative post but I also thought that it appeared that both you and Northcountry had the ability to look beyond personal preference in assessing guitars qualities.
I like reading your posts anyway, especially the part I quoted in my reply here! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | You are correct, I can (sometimes) be objective. Depends how you ask the question. There are many guitars that I think highly of, but would never want to own them myself.
Taylor is a great example. I have some fun jibbing back and forth with a few members here about my "hatred" for Taylors. That's just BS, of course. Taylor makes some very fine instruments. It's just that for whatever reason there has not been a one of them that has ever raised my pulse one iota. By the same token, some members here absolutely laugh at what I consider to be MY "favorite/best" guitars.
In Ovation-land the 30th anniversary Custom Legend reissue is a great example. Extremely nice guitar and many members here go absolutely gaga over it as one of the best sounding wood topped ovations. A very good friend of mine here owned (I think) 3-4 of them. But to me, that guitar is as bland as bland could be. Does absolutely nothing for me. But I would not hesitate to recommend it someone else. Plus it's highly collectable.
Am I objective? Sometimes. Like I said, depends how you ask the question. You have to realize that I base my opinions on my own biased set of requirements. I have little/no use for electronics. So I'm very likely to spout off something like "If you bought a guitar with VIP-5 you wasted about $300." of course what I really mean is if I bought a guitar with VIP then I wasted about $300... My other requirement is that a guitar must sound "woody" like a Martin. If it doesn't sound like a good Martin than I'm not likely to think highly of it. That's why I've said some negative things about SSB ovations. But guess what (question directed at self), they are not supposed to sound like that, don't hate an apple because it doesn't taste like an orange (lesson for self). I may PREFER the orange, but that has no reference to the value of an apple.
Lastly, do I sometimes stir up the shit just to see what color it is? Yes, although not as much as my brother before his self-imposed 5000 post exile. Injecting a little Tupperware juice (shut up Cliff) into a discussion usually doesn't hurt. Take the side fo the underdog? be the devils advocate? Why not. Good example (I know you are an SMT owner), check the archives and see what I've said about SMT's. I campaigned that they sould not be called "Adamas". The Adamas name should be reserved for the true textured topped guitars. SMT stood for Sound Muffling Technology, and I even proposed a retrofit kit for your Adamas I or II to make it sound like an SMT. Consisted of 3 pair of gym socks that you stuff inside your real Adamas to make it sound like an SMT.
Like I said, I can't be trusted to "always" be objective. But I can usually be objectionable.
Dave |
|
| |
Acoustic Sound Comparison: Ovation vs Adamas