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Location: New South Wales, Australia | My little garage band seems to be getting louder and my 15 watt Fender amp just won't cut it any more. In nearly 30 years of playing this is the first amp I've ever owned so I know nothing about them.
Can anyone recommend a minimum wattage (is that a word?) so I can get some sound out there. Our drummer is only 18 and only knows one way to play --LOUD and LOUDER....well that's two ways but you get my point.
Also should I be looking at an acoustic guitar amp or an electric one. I'm playing my 1860 with FET3. |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | First, try a drummer mute...
after that... you have asked a very ambiguous question... What other instruments are you trying to get through? What set-ups are being used? Do you want it as a monitor? .... |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Ambiguity is my specialty Jeff :) My lack of knowledge about these things prevents me from asking the right questions I suppose.
We're only a three-piece unless the keyboard player happens to show up. We're going through a PA but I couldn't tell you anything about it. So I'm usually trying to get through the drums. I've got everything turned up to 10. Maybe it's my hearing that's going lol
As for using it as a monitor....I've got no idea what that means either.
I'm not real helpful am I :confused: |
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Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Your best option is going to be plugging in to the PA.
Wanna talk loud? When we rehearse, we end up getting so loud that our drummer has to run his kit (he has an Alesis trigger system) through the PA just so he can hear himself playing.
Anyway, assuming you've got some channels open on your mixer, running through the PA is the way to go. |
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Location: Colorado | Hey Omaha: Was it you I sent pics to of a disney vacation as a test and never heard back...not grumbling - just wondering who I sent it to? |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Yeah, that was me! Thanks for mentioning it!
We lost track of you, and didn't know how to contact you. I guess that's why we do workflow tests, huh?
We are up and running for real. PM me and I'll send you a coupon code so you can get a free poster from www.myvacationposter.com
Thanks! |
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Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by ozwatto:
As for using it as a monitor....I've got no idea what that means either. A stage monitor (amp/speaker) allows the musician to hear what he or she is playing... as opposed to being directed out to the audience, it is usually directed back toward the band (and or "Side-fill" which, is a full range speaker system set stage sides to allow the players to hear a broader sound) |
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| There's only one watt in ozwatto.
Forgive me - but I thought nobody was ever going to take the bait. |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Originally posted by Jeff W.:
First, try a drummer mute...
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Location: big island | that's knot funny, too! |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I think we talked about this before, but here's my rule of thumb, and it just deals with the power rating.
Living Room 0 to 15 W
Coffee Shop 0-25 seats 25 to 50 W
Coffee Shop 25-50 seats 30 to 250 W
Bar 50-100 seats 50 W to 500 W
Bar 100-150 seats 100 W to 1500 W
150 seats or outdoor small venue 100W - 3000 W
At the low end, it's just you playing acoustically with people paying attention and no dancing. At the high end, people are dancing and doing what people do in a bar.
But your question was not the size of room, but what size amp you need to cut thru the drums, (who seems to be on the rock and roll side) so I'd say something with at least a 12 inch speaker at 250 Watts. Yamaha makes speaker cabs that would suit you, buy a pair and stomp on your drummer.
In the states GC has a 30 day money back guarantee, so you could buy one, try it, and if doesn't work bring it back, and upgrade.
Let me add, yes there is a difference between an electric amp and an acoustic amp, and I think the rule is that for every doubling of your wattage you get 3 more decibels.
You gotta get something to monitor to yourself, and stand away from the drummer. Another option would be to get a 100 watt acoustic amp, stand next to it, and mike it thru the PA. Their are losts of ways to do this. Best to play thru the PA so you don't have to lug around stuff and use a house monitor. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | maybe buy electronic percussion for a drummer? you'll be able to mute him without using force :D
an4340: i basically agree to what you're writing, but it's hard to compare efficency of - for example - 100w aer and 100w marshall. AER is head and shoulders over marshall if it comes to sound quality, loudness etc. I don't know how they achieved it, but i think when you compare AER amp to anything alse, the second one has to be at least 50% more powerful to match AER's volume and sound quality when playing loud. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by an4340:
and I think the rule is that for every doubling of your wattage you get 3 more decibels.
Errrm, yes, kinda, but what does 3dB actualy mean to most non-techies? And if only it were that simple when it comes to actually buying and evaluating sound equipment.
Doubling wattage achives very little in perceived volume, it merely creates a little more headroom so the signal stays cleaner as it gets louder. (There are other factors, such as speaker efficiency) Using the premise of doubling power to get a 3dB lift, a 50 watt amp may produce 100dB, and therefore a 100watt amp may produce 103dB and 200watts 106db. This actually amounts to very little in the real world. To effectively double the perceived volume of a sound system you need to square the power. So to double the perceived volume of a 10watt amp you need 100 watts, and so on.
The other factor to consider is that output measurements of amps are "clean" ratings. I.E. sine wave, not square wave. Take for example a Vox AC30, rated at 30 watts. Played clean they are relatively polite amps. Crank them into distortion and they'll drown out any solid state amp up to 200+watts, because harmonic distortion increases perceived volume. |
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Location: Scotland | |
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Location: NJ | wott? |
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Location: Scotland | it's spelled "Watt" dumbass |
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Location: South of most, North of few | Bunch of anti-drumites here...
(Oh yeah, I forgot I sold mine), CLUB EM ALL!! |
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Location: Colorado | omaha - pm sent...thanks |
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Location: Rego Park, NY, | Originally posted by Trader Jim:
Originally posted by Jeff W.:
First, try a drummer mute...
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Posts: 398
Location: So. Cal. | Here is my take on this subject. I have been in similar situation before. No matter how big (powerful) of an amp you have, it's never quite enough. People just keep playing louder to (inadvertently) stand out. You may want to try this: start with the drummer (since it doesn't usually have a volume control) playing in a normal, reasonable level (loudness wise); then the bass player comes in just audible, then the guitar joins in clearly. My personal preference is always, the vocal needs to take center-stage. So, the final element, which is the singing, comes in clearly. Now you have an optimum setting for the band as a whole.
I must stress that I am NOT a professional in either performing nor sound engineering. I have experience playing occasionally with some professionals (live) and thus learn a lot from them. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by schroeder:
There's only one watt in ozwatto.
Forgive me - but I thought nobody was ever going to take the bait. I was waiting for that one....thanks Schroeder :D |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Hmmmmm...a drummer mute...is that to hit him over the head? |
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March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | It doesn't have to be his head. In fact, that might not be the most effective. Totally useless to try to damage his ears. Some drummers may already be unconscious. I'd go for the hands and feet. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7224
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As usual I approach such problems from a different direction...
Such as this..
Drum Barrier
You can actually make something similar with plexi and piano hinges, or even plexi and Duct Tape hinges. Black duct tape makes it look rather professional as long as you don't look too close. |
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how many watts