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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | As some of you know, I currently have slothead No. 43 in my possession while Mark (Elginacres) is vacationing. He even suggested that I gig with it, although I'm not all that comfortable taking any unnecessary risk with his beloved guitar. On the other hand, an opportunity like this is rare indeed. So, if the opportunity was yours, and you had the owner's blessing, would you gig with an original slothead on loan to your care and custody?? |
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Location: NJ | Do it.
I've gigged mine a few times (providing I'm familiar with the venue/stage area and was able to provide adequate security), and I've also gigged (with his prior "okay") some of Bill's Boarders that've lived with me.
This is what Ovation's were DESIGNED for.
Leave the fragile furniture to the StoveKnitters.
Besides, I'm fairly certain that the venues that you play are a far cry from neighborhood bars . . . |
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Location: south east Michigan | I'm gonna go the other way.
It's not mine. As careful as anyone could be, bad things can happen out there.
If I'm gonna roll the dice, dispite the favorable odds, I'd better green up & buy one of my own. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I wouldn't do it. You've got better gigging guitars. If you have to (want to) use a slothead for some reason then you should use your own.
Dave |
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Location: Parrish, FL | I voted yes....For these reasons
1) You have Marks's blessings
2) I believe he gigs with it now
3) You will take the utmost care
4) Provided it is a safe and controlled venue.
But it really comes down to you. Is the event worth the risk you assume?
Brad |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | If he said yes, just play it. Anyone who gives permission for this understands, that dents, dings,wear and tear, are a normal part of gigging. As to major damage, you know in your heart what was caused by your negligence and what's an accident. If it's an accident you don't have to fix it. If it's due to your negligence you owe him. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I would but I'd have to consider if my paranoia would keep me from being able to play. It would have to be in a controllable environment, i.e; no foot traffic or kids, other instruments far enough away, etc.
The Factory can fix anything! :eek: |
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Location: CT | No. There is only 1 original #43, and it belongs to someone else. To the crowd, a Celebrity with those 'weird holes' will look just the same. A good sound man, with a quality pa., can make either sound good, and a crappy pa/soundman won't do it justice anyway. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Great comments, all very valid. The vote is evenly split. Cliff is right, the venue is a very non-hostile worship sanctuary. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | If the owner is cool with it, then absolutely! I see no purpose whatsoever in owning an instrument that is so valuable you are afraid to play it where people can enjoy it. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
the venue is a very non-hostile worship sanctuary. Good... In that case the active praying that nothing happens to #43 would not seem out of place.
I guess if it's that kind of venue I might give it a shot. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | 1 - Owner says, "go for it."
2 - It was made to be played.
3 - Can't proselytize without performance.
4 - You've got insurance for it. (?) |
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Location: NJ | The vast majority of Stradivarius violins are owned by private collectors who continually loan them out to various symphonies for performances . . . |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Guitars are tools, meant to be used. |
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Location: south east Michigan | "They are called accidents for a reason." |
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Location: NJ | "They are called reasons by accident." |
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Location: Texas | hmmmmmmmm - two questions I would ask myself before I gigged with it - could I afford to replace it if it got damaged or was stolen and could it be replaced at all? |
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Location: Munich, Germany | Voted for "yes" because of no clearer separations.
So, yes, but only if
- you could afford to replace it - even if it 's not replacable in person
- the friendship is strong enough to stand a ruined slothead
- you are the kind of guy who keeps an eye on his properties (Shut up... if that was ambiguous?) and take care for things of others even better than for yours
- it is absolutely necessary.
If any of these points is denied - I wouldn't do it.
Too much of a risk. Even if it is only a liitle scratch - it could grow to a big problem.
Kurt |
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Location: big island | the audience would not know the difference. playing the original slothead would not necessarily enhance the sound of the music played. the benefit would only be yours, brad, for being able to play it and for feelin' ever-so-cool on your stool holdin' that baby. :cool: :cool: :cool: |
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| The answer has to be no because it has nothing to do with being able to afford to replace it. It's not an expensive guitar still in production, it's a piece of history. You couldn't replace it. Neither (I assume) would you wish to be the person who had to have a replacement neck/top/whatever put on #43, so that it is no longer an original.
I can't believe anyone would consider it with a guitar not theirs. :confused: |
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Location: Kent, England | Have to agree with Schroeder...can you also picture yourself explaining what went wrong and how it happened and the look on the other guy's face. I wouldn't want to be the other guy either! |
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Location: NJ | Schroeder's right, . . and he's prompted me to reconsider the whole thing . . .
. . so, next year at the LobbyJam . . . he can piss off . . . |
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Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by brainslag:
A good sound man, with a quality pa., can make either sound good, and a crappy pa/soundman won't do it justice anyway. Sad but true. :( |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Toooo wrapped up in the material world, man!
I say, "You like the WHO? Do a WHO medley and try to smash it after!"
I mean, you only live once, right?
................
Wait!
I thought Brad asked the original question.
Strike that, I take it all back..... |
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Location: NJ | fill;
If y'DO "Who-Smash" it, I'll betcha 10-1 that it smashes louder, brighter, boomier, and flat-out better-sounding than any OTHER smashed guitar out there!! :D |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | This reminds me of that profound dilemma presented in the classic film 'Animal House':
[SCENE: Clorette has just passed out]
Larry's evil conscience: "Fu¢k her. Fu¢k her brains out. Suck her tits, squeeze her buns. You know she wants it."
Larry's good conscience:"For shame! Lawrence, I'm surprised at you!"
Larry's evil conscience: "Aw, don't listen to that jack-off. Look at those gazongas. You'll never get a better chance."
Larry's good conscience: "If you lay one finger on that poor sweet helpless girl, you'll despise yourself forever... I'm proud of you, Lawrence."
Larry's evil conscience: "You homo."
My advice? Play her. Play her brains out.... |
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Location: Vermont USA | Friendship? I don't have any friends so I don't know what to say, except you can lose your wife to a friend so I know you can lose a friend over a guitar. So the real question is, are you willing to risk friendship over a guitar.
Pauly |
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Location: NJ | Jeffrey;
Another testament that you and I share a brain (an evil brain, but a brain none the less) . . .
Jeanette and I watched AnimalHouse JUST last Sunday, and I was thinking about that VERY scene while this whole thread's been transpiring.
scary. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by cliff:
If y'DO "Who-Smash" it,... I changed my mind 'cause I've seen pics of the prof.
I just don't think he's got the bulk behind him to be ABLE to break an ovation. I've smashed cheap guitars and, sober, it's not that easy.
(guitars playing wimpy madrigals 'a la' Animal House do not HAVE to be smashed. They will self destruct if you touch them in the right way.) |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | If the owner is cool with go for it. Now you need to be sure tha gig is somewhat safe.
Cliff has got several of my guitars and I'd be pist if he didn't use them on gigs.
The worry is it being damaged and that can be fixed. If it gets stolen within a year or so it will pop up somewhere, things that rare usually don't stay hidden long. |
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Location: NJ | ". . guitars playing wimpy madrigals 'a la' Animal House . ."
Stephen Bishop, btw |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | O.k., so even if I was to decide to chance it and use No. 43 in Sunday's service, how could I do it now? My thoughts would totally be on that scene from Animal House! As a matter of fact, no matter what guitar I'll be using, that scene is going to come to my mind. And it was such a harmless poll, too. This is why I love the OFC! |
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Location: Texas | Unfortunately you never know what can happen at any gig.
This is a unique piece and even if it is insured, if it is damaged or stolen you can never replace it.
We did an album called "Guitarras Hermanas", meaning sister guitars awhile back, and we chose that title because we had a couple of concert flamenco guitars that we custom orderd from a legendary luthier in Spain and the guitars were a serial number apart from each other, hence the title. We toured with them and used them in many concerts and many other recording projects.
Well, years ago one of the beloved sisters was stolen after a gig and we never found it. It was insured and we bought another one, but it was not part the original pair that was on that CD and had been on many of our concerts, photos, TV shows etc.
So I say don't do it. If you are the owner and you want to use a valuable and unique instrument that is different, but if you are babysitting it you should take care of it and make sure it is safe and that you can return it to the owner with a fresh set of strings on it, polished and in the same condition he left it.
:cool: |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by cliff:
Jeffrey;
scary. InDEED. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | I voted " NO !! " because I would not dare to risk it,U never know what can happen,but then again I like my own instruments best.. :)
Vic |
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Location: Scotland | I agree with Serge, do what you feel is appropriate for your own instruments, regardless of their rarity or value. Unless you can replace like for like, and in this case it would be almost impossible, you have an extra duty of care with a loaner. |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | With a guitar that is irreplaceable, I would never take it anywhere. Even to church. My father always told me - Accidents happen but not nearly as often to people who use their head.
And the movie scene I'm seeing is from Ferris Beuhler when he sees his buddies' Dad's classic car and they go for a joy ride, get it back to the house, put it on blocks and put the car in reverse to try to take the mileage back off. Predictably, the car slips off the blocks and goes down an embankment and is totaled.
Invite some players over to enjoy it? Sure. Take it anywhere? I wouldn't. |
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Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Gertrude has a "sound vent" from her purling to her bridge because the unforeseen thing that couldn't possibly happen actually did. It's bad enough when it's your own guitar; if that had happened to a friend's I can't imagine how I would have felt. (And even though she's not one of the "Grail Guitars," to me she's pretty irreplaceable.) I'm going to err on the side of caution here and say that if it was me, I wouldn't--having said that, I'm glad it's not me!
--Karen |
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Location: Midland, MI | No. For the same reason I don't borrow tools. |
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Location: Central Oregon | No way would I take that guitar anywhere in public. If it was a guitar that could be easily replaced I'd say go for it. Even if it was guitar that would possibly be somewhat difficult to replace I'd say go for it, carefully. But #43 cannot be replaced for any amount of money, there is only one. If you were the owner it would be a whole different deal, but you're not. Putting the possibility of theft aside, all it would take to seriously damage it would be one unruly child doing something stupid without thinking, right when you least expected it. It happens constantly every day. Maybe you have nerves of steel, but I'd be so nervous I probably wouldn't be able to pick my nose, let alone #43. |
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Location: Tennessee | I voted play it. The owner said go for it. If it was my guitar, I'd tell you to go for it. It can be replaced or repaired. Guitars are meant to be played. Maybe if you play it in church, there will be someone you reach simply because of something special in the guitar. God works in mysterious ways.
The material things in life shouldn't matter. That's not to say your should be careless or abuse them, but you should never treasure things over people. Everything is replaceable, except human life.
But maybe today I'm just a bit jaded. I'm in Minneapolis on business, and last night I witnessed disaster and tragedy. I also saw incredible selflessness and the triumph of the human spirit. Then this morning I came out of an 8am meeting, and in the parking lot my sales guy returned a voice mail message from home (California) that had just come in while we were leaving ... to find out his 10-year old son had unexpectedly died. The boy was special needs and was the centerpiece of Brian's life. He was completely devastated. His pain and despair was complete and total. It is in these moments you realize that guitars, cars, and "things", no matter what you paid for them, aren't worth a tinker's dam.
I'm going to go play my Traveller guitar now, and maybe find some peace. If I had #43 with me, I'd go out on the street with it and play a song for Reid, and then one for the people on the 35W bridge, and then keep playing until everyone around me was smiling. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | If I could gig, I would.
Unless you are doing imitations of "The Who" in concert, I doubt that you are any more likely to damage it "out there" than you would at home.
Stuff happens at home too. You wouldn't do it on purpose, that's why they are called accidents!
[Just be responsible... If you break it, You bought it!] |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Stonebobbo - you are exactly right. I voted to go ahead and play, but for different reasons. It's so easy to fall into the habit of choosing things over people. I have to make a conscious effort not to say anything when my sons go to grab my guitars. I've gotten much better at it too. I'm so sorry to hear about your sales guy's son. I dread bad news when I'm travelling because I feel so helpless not being there.
My vote remains - go play it Prof! The owner values your friendship and skills enough to give you the go ahead to play it out... go for it! Bring some happiness to others. |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | I'm not sure that I see it as a "choosing material things over people" thing at all. It's not like Professor couldn't grab another guitar, his or not, and generate those same smiles. Chances are slim at best those listening would have any idea what #43 is.
I'm sorry about your day, bobbo, and much sorrier for the losses around you. I didn't know them but here in town last night there was a house fire that claimed a mother, three children and left the father alone with nothing, material or otherwise. When I saw that on the news I just wanted to puke. Things like that can put a little different spin on things - no question. I'm just saying that if you look at it from a risk (a lot) v. return (none over holding any other guitar) perspective, it's a no brainer to me. |
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Location: Vermont USA | stonebobbo posted I'm going to go play my Traveller guitar now, and maybe find some peace. If I had #43 with me, I'd go out on the street with it and play a song for Reid, and then one for the people on the 35W bridge, and then keep playing until everyone around me was smiling. You're a good man.
Pauly |
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Location: Colorado | I voted yes...but then that makes sense doesn't it? I'm totally with a couple comments here - It is meant to be played...he'll make the decision he is comfortable with...I have too....Great thread professor....I'll be back in internet land in a little over a week...I'm looking forward to where this thread ends up. |
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Location: NJ | One of the main reasons I voted yes was the "Mark Factor". Not a lot of people here have had the pleasure of meeting Mark. I have. Thanks fer chiming-in, Buddy, . .
I wondered if you would . . .
". . . Bueller?? . . . Bueller???? . . . . . . . Bueller????? . . . . . . |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Go for it Prof... #45 will be standing by as a replacement! :rolleyes:
Negotiated price will be commensurate with level of desperation! :D |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | play it. guitars are made to be played.
no one (i think) will take guitar to the grave.
But if you'll be somehow distracted by playing on it (for example - fearing about damage or sth like this), don't take it. You have to enjoy playing, and I enjoy playing only when i'm completely relaxed. |
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Location: SoCal | Would I? NO...
The guitar belongs to someone else and it is in my care. The guitar would get plenty of play time, but it would not leave my house. I personally don't see the thrill of gigging with it, but the opportunity to record with it would be thrilling.
Professor, If the question is, "should you gig Mark's Slothead"?
You already answered the question when you said, "...I'm not all that comfortable taking any unnecessary risk with his beloved guitar."
It would be irresponsible to cheer you on. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Mark posted "It is meant to be played" Sounds to me he wants to bless you and that being the case if you don't play it you will rob him of his blessing. So bless away
Pauly |
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Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | Originally posted by elginacres:
I voted yes... Enough said... |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The vote is still too close to call, but I've already made my decision. The question is, would you if you could? About half of you would, and half of you wouldn't. |
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Location: Vermont USA | I voted yes I had to think about it for a while but I have come to the conclusion that if a person left the guitar in my care at home, then he wanted me to play it. Part of taking of the guitar is feeding and taking it out for a walk, just ask Dave as he walks his little dog my pretty.
Pauly |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
About half of you would, and half of you wouldn't. Oh great!
So now it's up to the Electoral College...typical.
:rolleyes: |
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Location: closely held secret | I tipped it back over into the yes column.
Brad, you have to owner's blessing. He wouldn't give it if he didn't trust you to be appropriately responsible, while being fully aware that there are always risks.
So it sounds like the real question for you is not 'should you or shouldn't you?', but rather 'would you like to?'. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I kept the wabbit in check and evened things up again.
Regarding Cliff's generosity at the OFC gatherings....Cliff is present which would make for an entirely different scenario in my eyes.
I like Noah's comments. |
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Location: closely held secret | Um, Stephen. Have you ever attended an OFC gathering with Cliff?
"Present" is a pretty generous description... like "Also present at the funeral service was the deceased."
"entirely different scenario" on the other hand, is very appropriate...
:D |
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Location: Vermont USA | When did Cliff pass on
Pauly |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | From what I've read here, Cliff doesn't pass on much. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | He passes gas on every occasion possible. |
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Location: Vermont USA | That old fart. |
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Location: SoCal | If you have the means (and ethics) to facilitate repairing or replacing your friend's guitar, take any risk that thrills you.
Nothing like fu¢king-up your friend's guitar and not fixing it. |
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Location: Midland, MI | Originally posted by fillhixx:
So now it's up to the Electoral College...typical.
:rolleyes: Not to be pedantic, but in the US, it's always up to the electoral college. IIRC, there isn't anything legally binding the EC to vote in accord with the popular vote. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Time to put this thread to bed. The vote began to move into the yes column, but only by a few percentage points. I did not gig with No. 43 and never would have. It wouldn't have served any purpose other than for my own personal enjoyment and perhaps to show it off to the bandmembers, and even they wouldn't really understand its significance. Soundwise, it really wouldn't have made any difference and wouldn't have added anything to the service. I am never more than 10 feet away from the guitar so I wasn't particularly worried about the risk of theft or mishap. However, I was rear-ended by a mattress deliver truck a few years ago at a stoplight and that thought came into my mind. Playing No. 43 in my personal bandroom until Mark returns will have to do, and it does. Thanks for your votes and your comments. |
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Location: Vermont USA | Awesome!
Pauly |
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Location: SoCal | Good call Prof. I was out of town when all of this was being played out and just got done reading the whole thread. Even with Mark's ok, I wouldn't have gigged with the guitar. If a borrow something, I'm always more careful than the owner says to be. When Tim's 47 was here, he said go ahead and play it all I wanted. I played it a few times, but mostly kept it in it's case. Tim was trusting me and I wasn't going to let him down.
You just don't take chances with somebody else's pride and joy...... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
If a borrow something, I'm always more careful than the owner says to be. That does not explain why you returned my Academy guitar to me with drawings of Templeman's genitalia on the face of it.
Dave |
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Location: NJ | . . which begs me to ask:
How did you KNOW it was TEMPLEMAN's genitalia?? . . . |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | Because Temp's nose is bigger than that... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by cliff:
. . which begs me to ask: How did you KNOW it was TEMPLEMAN's genitalia?? It had a fookin union jawck drawn on it !!! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Ah, well there is that tell-tale sign...... |
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Location: SoCal | And the strings were dead, so you know Temp had been playing it..... |
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Would you if you could?