|
|
Joined:
January 2003
Posts: 146
Location: Germantown, MD | I haven't been able to keep up with this board for months, and now I'm back to ask for advice and help because I know that some of you are active in praise music at your churches.
Last Sunday, my singing partner, his son, and I played for what looked like a one-off service to bless a home that my church owns and makes available at low cost to families who need housing. My partner and his son don't attend my church, and they live too far away to be regulars. When the music provoked a strong positive response, the question from my rector was whether I'd be willing to do a service with praise music once a month. I've pointed out to her that my voice is too weak to lead singing, and we need to go forward on this thoughtfully and prayerfully. Some years ago, I belonged to a congregation that became horribly divided when praise music was introduced, and I don't want to be part of bringing that sort of division to this congregation.
Soo.......
Have any of you been involved in the introduction of praise music at your churches? What advice can you offer? What should we avoid?
Thanks,
John |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Mike (GGG) ?? Got any input here? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | I would go to this site. Lots of experience.
Guitar Praise & Worship Forum. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2007
Posts: 3
Location: massachusetts | I have been involved in praise music for some time. Everyone has their own feeling of what praise music should sound like. I have heard it needs to be baptist hymns to modern day Third Day, to regional favorites but each church ministers differently and each congregation has different needs. Having said that, find current music that contains the gospel messege and start there. Young and old will embrace it. Stay UNPLUGGED meaning lite on the instrumentals. God bless. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Hey Mike, when's the new baby due? (slot 12 fret that is) :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Go slowly...and prayerfully. Remember that the "heart music" of each generation is influenced by what music sounded like when they were young (but this middle-aged "lil' old lady" loves contemporary worship music, too.) I have just started leading worship in a little church of about 30 people, the median age of which is about 50--sometimes I feel like a young'un--so I'm introducing new things with great care.
--Karen |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by Trader Jim:
Hey Mike, when's the new baby due? (slot 12 fret that is) :D I'm hoping by the end of the week. Since it was a music store selling I'm sure nothing was done until today. Bad time to end an auction on Sunday with Monday being a holiday. :(
BTW Karen has some pretty good advice. :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | :cool: PETRA :cool:
Not Of This World-
Grave Robber-
Judas Kiss-
Get on Your Knees (and Fight Like a Man)-
Anything off of "Petra Praise"
Get them old farts off of their Pews!
"When the Spirit of The LORD moves in my heart, I will dance like David danced..."
No really, this is a hard decision...
The only thing I can tell you is Pray About It.
(Prayer will make your voice work too)
Also, kinda like any stage performance, it is all in the delivery :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 71
Location: Southern California | that's a really hard decision & you definitely have to keep in mind that you can't please all the people all the time but you can please some of the people some of the time.
my personal suggestion: keep it pretty varied so you can hopefully please a little of everyone, that's how my church tends to do it, though it's far more contemporary than anything else, they do still include some of the oldies in there. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 1180
Location: Vermont USA | So far its all been said I would think a blend of contemporary worship and hymns, should do just fine. Ask Jesus and go with what He says.
Pauly |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 71
Location: Southern California | Well I forgot to say that above all else pray about the whole situation (it won't let me edit my post to add that in there). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | Amen to all the good advice...just remember who your audience is:
1. God
2. the congregation
In terms of music style, play to the preferences stylistically of those who care what type of music you play. Your "audience of One" isn't going to care if you play hymns or rock tunes, as long as the attitude and purpose are in line. So be conscious of creating an environment where the people there feel comfortable opening themselves to your worship time and not spending all their thoughts critiquing the music. Just stick to the message, and it will be great. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | Petra had a song called Lucas Mcgraw, a little on the bluegrass side for such a rocking band. Its a fun song, people always get a kick out of it but it also has a pretty deep message. I`ve been doing it for 25 years and still enjoy it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | Some of the stuff we do comes from Word Musics "Songs for Praise and Worship" series, good stuff that's has less of an edge to it than the Third Day type sound. They also have a Hymns for Praise and Worship , which puts a more modern sound to the classic hymns, and keeps a lot of people on both sides of the fence happy. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | Beware of Jewish Sound Men. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Leave the Marshall at home. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Third Day sounds familiar. Somebody named Curry as well. Swap out the lyrics and it all sounds relatively contemporary with some ballad-like stuff. Ours is probably at the edge, and the congregation seems to love it. We occasionally get into African rhythms and a few weeks ago did a few Irish numbers featuring an electric violin. I don't plan the music and can barely keep up just trying to play it. Good luck! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Mauvais Beal (cwk2) wrote:
Leave the Marshall at home. Actually Bill, I have friends in some praise bands that use Marshalls (abet small Marshalls) in their groups for praise.
Personally, I have been doing this now since I retired from the road in 1993 as part of ministry. I usually do acoustic only or A/E through the PA; I do have my own setup and sound system that I use for Christian Music Concerts from time to time: I am constantly learning new music and reviewing my older stuff...Most churchgoers like the addition of praise and contemporary Christian music infused in the services...I do not do a separate service based on just praise; I have two churches per Sunday and no time to do that but I have friends at other churches that do...above all, stay true to the message...give credit where credit is due, and don't make it too loud; that is the number one complaint of the older members of the congregations...one must take everyone into consideration...and remember that practice is important...you'll want it to sound as polished and professional as you can...By all means have fun with it and remember that the "spotlight" and emphasis should be on God and the message in the music...you are just the messenger!
:rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | There are vast resources available, nearly matched by the number of churches that have gone through this process.
FWIW, when I preach in Latin America or somewhere in Africa, most of the people in the crowd don't get what I'm saying in English. The message has to be in a language they understand and in a cultural context to which they can relate. The FORM of communication can be adapted without compromising the content. Further, that has always been necessary in reaching cultural groups that didn't grow up in church.
That is solid theory. Working it out in practice where people have strong feelings is where it gets difficult. 'nuf said. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | About 5 Years ago I was asked to take over our church music program (pretty-much by default, I didn't step forward and volunteer, and I really didn't have a desire to). Our worship leader had moved on and wrote most of his own songs. Many of them had been played over-and-over again, and there was an established group of critics, nay-sayers, and hypocrites who were in constant opposition to anything but gospel music and hymns.(it was kinda humorous that the previous worship leader labeled them as "the entitlement group") Well anyways ... It's been a long 5 years, with lots of prostrate prayer time, changing of musicians and singers, and an introduction of over 200 new songs, but now I feel we are moving forward in the right direction. I try to do a blend of modern contemporary songs and re-arranged hymns, moving the center to one direction or the other as the weeks go by. I believe the most important thing we have done is educating people (over time) to the fact that worship is not about them (and it's not about me either). It is an action of the heart. When a person's heart is right, it will matter very little what style of music is being played. With that said, you need to be sensitive to things that could distract and detract also. This could develop into a novel, so I'll stop. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Paul, in the early 90's I did quite a number of Christian Music Concerts in the former USSR...I used my Elites for all but the last trip in 2001 (could not fit the case in the overhead so I had to take a Baby Taylor)...I always had an interpreter and I would explain the songs prior to my performing them on an individual basis...it was very effective...also it was great fun watching the reaction of the Soviet guards at the airports when I opened the guitar cases for inspection...the white 1758 was a very big attention getter! I can safely say that I took the first Ovation into many parts of the former USSR... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | In my limited experience in this area, I can only conclude that playing in a worship environment is a substantially thankless job. You are either too loud or too soft, the music is either too contemporary or too traditional, too fast or too slow, etc, etc, etc. Everyone's a critic.
And I kindof understand that too. When my band plays in a bar, if we suck, you leave. Walk down the street to the next bar and hope to find something better. The church audience is, for lack of a better word, captive. They are stuck with you, and I think that gives them some sense of license in terms of voicing criticism.
Add to that the fact that (at least where I play), it is something of a "pick up game" environment. We never know week to week who will show up and who will not. Sometimes we have a piano player, which is REALLY nice. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes I am the only guitar, sometimes we have another, although he only plays on some songs.
And the level of musicianship between the singers varies tremendously. Some weeks, it will just be me and one of my daughters. Other weeks, we might have ten people.
Piss and moan, piss and moan, I know. The fact is despite all that its a fun gig. They say we are supposed to be playing for God and not the congregation, but honestly, I don't buy that. Performing is performing, and you get off on the response from the crowd. Its really cool when we get the whole place singing along, and it feels nice when we get a vigorous round of applause after the closing song (even though from time to time the priest admonishes the congregation that they aren't supposed to) and its really cool when people come up after mass and say they started coming to our church because of our music. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I go for the French Toast . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | 'Pickup game' isn't the way to go. Get commitments from everyone who wants to be involved (commited to the group, not commited to showing up EVERY week), then have someone set up a schedule. Some people are readily available, some are available once every month or 2, but if you know ahead of time, you can plan music to take advantage of who is on. Even better if you can get a rehearsal in during the week, to work out the kinks. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | Since you are playing solo, consider some of the music by Indellible Grace .
Much of it is old hymns with acoustic guitar arrangements. I played one of their arrangements 2 weeks ago (Jesus, I My Cross Have Taken). This week I'm doing my own interpretation of Come Thou Fount, inspire to do so by igrace.
I really had a bad problem with our praise band. I was the guitarist, since I'm our only adult guitarist who plays contemporary style. It was not the place for me, and now I'm settling in as a part-time fill-in solo leader (and roadie/sound helper for the praise band).
Based on my own experience, I'd say just don't go too fast. I agree with the others... pray and handle your congregation with care. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | Originally posted by brainslag:
'Pickup game' isn't the way to go. Get commitments from everyone who wants to be involved Thank you Slag, that's what I wanted to say. In my case, I wasn't committed to the group and didn't want to be involved, and wasn't really taken seriously when I said so. Our worship leader knew I was miserable and asked me what would make it better....
"No keyboards or female singers"
"Ha ha, besides that?"
"Me not being in it"
"Ha ha, besides that?"
Please don't trap anybody into it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1138
Location: CT | Sorry to hear that Captain. Sounds like its time to tell yor worship leader "Sorry, I'm not available." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | That's what I did last May. It worked out really well, by the way. Didn't know it at the time, but a leadership change was in the works, and I'm quite happy in my more limited role. I just learned a lesson about staying where I'm not supposed be just to please others.
I'm leading solo this Sunday night. All is going well now. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 1421
Location: Orange County, California | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal (cwk2):
Leave the Marshall at home. Yeah, Bring a VoX AC-30 variant GenzBenz BP-30 ought to do it :D :p :D :p
You can hear that "shimmery", harmonic break-up in many of the contemporary versions of classic hymns and parise songs being played today.
Paul Baloche has some GREAT insight into playing simple chords (open 5ths) and using a capo for key changes. the cool thing is THIS WORKS GREAT FOR HYMNS!!! It makes sound like the "new stuff" the "kids" are playing, while still keeping it somewhat traditional (as long as you don't change the timing too much).
Our worship is VERY contemporary, with a acoustic lead, acoustic rhythm, electric lead/rhythm, full drums and percussion, multiple vocalists etc.
Sometimes we just sing a choral hymn.
The contrast from the "norm" makes it seem special.
We usually play 1/2 "stuff we all know". 2/6 "stuff we haven't heard in a while", and 1/6 "something we've never heard before" which may include an original piece by someone in the band.
I think that within any overall worship and praise setting, this works pretty well, as todays "new song" becomes tomorrow's "same-song", then next year's "classic".
As to the "performance" aspect, All I bring is the guitar. Together with the band, WE make it music (for God). The church bring their hearts. The Holy Spirit makes it into Worship.
I can't tell you how many times I've thought I sucked, or our drummer apologizes for dragging (not that he was out of time, just that his energy level wasn't there because he's tired), or our vocalist got that "dry-itch" and had to sip some water in the middle of a song, or the bass *almost* missed the bridge, or the electric player takes 2 bars to figure out it's his solo, Or ANY of the little things that made it "not perfect", and no sooner than we had finished, We see someone just "beaming" because it was "The Best Worship Ever" for them.
Then I know I can be a complete "tool" and still be an instrument of God.
Blessings!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Fred Said: Blessings!! Right back at ya, Fred!
:D :rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | Originally posted by mtnbikerfred:
Then I know I can be a complete "tool" and still be an instrument of God. I'll probably not use that Sunday, but it made me laugh. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | i'm currently working on project with "praise music".
but it's dedicated to Old Gods, native to Poland (Slovian mythology - it's partially connected to nordic one)
something like this: (it's not our recording, but we do something similar, i play on drums:-))
Epopeja Wandalska |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | Fred, you didn't mention that Paul Baloche's website is leadworship.org
The article you're talking about is called The Open Chord Concept, under Thoughts on Worship. I used that technique before and it is a cool sound. I'm playing two numbers this Sunday with a short cut capo, which gives a similar effect. Gives a full sound when there's just one guitar.
By the way, when you go to the website, you have to click the logo to enter the site. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I am glad to hear so many of y'all have Worship/Praise experience. Mine is limited to setting-up and support... Otherwise, I've been an Audience-Participant.
Earlier I posted that "Like any other show, it is all in the delivery.." (or something like that)
Later, Mtnbikerfred said "As to the "performance" aspect, All I bring is the guitar. Together with the band, WE make it music (for God). The church bring their hearts. The Holy Spirit makes it into Worship."
I just wanted to clarify... I just wanted to encourage amstphd that how well you sing is not always as important as how Sincere you are.
I'm sure some will not agree, but I have seen many people who sang and led worship who ain't American Idol material :rolleyes: But the Spirit spoke through their spirit in such a way that it was a totally edifying experience.
Also I've had Worship Leaders tell me/us that it isn't How you Sing, but Why you Sing! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | You Said it all.
I think some of God's favorite singers can't carry a tune in a bucket. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | That's me. I don't even bother bringing the bucket with me anymore. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15665
Location: SoCal | I can carry a tune if you give me a big enough bucket.
At my church, it's me on guitar and a piano player ("The Chief", and she's the music director), plus 3 women singers. My biggest problem is that there's nobody there giving me any direction whatsoever. I can pretty well do what ever I want, guitar-wise. The big joke is that I'm just playing Louis Louis on every tune. It sounds like I've got it made, but I have no idea how people perceive my playing or what I could do to make it better (can't get worse).
But the good news is that we're not trying to do performance music like the big churches. We trying to do good music that delivers a message. With that attitude, I don't have to be a hot shot guitar player. Takes a lot of pressure off.
I read what some of you guys deal with, with a lot of written music, a lot of jazz oriented scores, and I can't help but think that the music directors that push that stuff have lost track of the purpose of the music. They sound very anally driven regarding the music. And the music ain't the important thing here...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
The big joke is that I'm just playing Louis Louis on every tune. You gotta love it. 
When we rehearse I usually with play a little bit of "Dueling Banjo's". It's one of those tunes that when you get in you head you can't get rid of it. Drives the others crazy. :D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Take heart, all you resident bucket toters;
Psalm 100 begins, "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord...." :D ;)
The hardest problem I face is the overwhelming amount of really good music that's out there and a limited schedule of time to introduce new songs. Hillsong music (from Australia) has tons of great stuff; then there's Vineyard music, Passion, Delirious, Michael W. Smith, Hosanna! Integrity, plus all the groups that go back and forth between what I would call "Christian easy-listening," harder rock and music that you can actaully use in a church setting. Choices, choices.
--Karen |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | When Moody plays, it's the people in the congregation that tote the buckets . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15665
Location: SoCal | Well, yeah..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | In life, its what you give away...
Karen, you are so right on point!
:rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4049
Location: Utah | My 15 yr old is part of a praise band, Radical Grace Band, and has lured me into playing with them on occasion. My wife is a coordinator for the youth ministry and also oversees the Radical Grace Band.
What really seems to work is bringing in the youth. Find some high school kids to play in the band. You can have quite a large group and use some or all of the musicians as needed. We have several vocalists, the usual assortment of guitars and bass, and then add other instruments as needed, such as woodwinds or strings.
You will need to have someone who is good at organization. Basically, people need to know well in advance when the rehearsals are and what is expected of them. You will have to figure out how to deal with less than great musicians, whether you keep them included or you have a formal audition process. Someone has to choose the music and distribute it. The music has to be coordinated with the Pastor or someone else who is involved in planning future topics.
My wife's and daughter's church put a lot of effort into crafting their youth programs. One part of it is Radical Grace. The band plays a variety of music, all intended to mesh with a particular sermon or seasonal theme. Some of the music is not specifically praise music, but is well known mainstream pop/rock that many in the congregation will recognize, and it has a particular message even if it is not overtly religious. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | He who has nothing to add adds nothing at all.
Kenneth 28:16 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Hey FlySig, Where bouts in Utah are you? I come to south SLC (Sandy/Draper/Lehi) almost every week. Any guitar shops worth checking out?
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | v |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4049
Location: Utah | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Hey FlySig, Where bouts in Utah are you? I come to south SLC (Sandy/Draper/Lehi) almost every week. Any guitar shops worth checking out?
Dave Tup, we're in Sandy. There really aren't any great guitar shops around here that I know of. Mostly I would rate them as consumer level, on par with Guitar Center. No Adamas in the whole state.
If you're just looking to kill a little time and play some instruments, Hyland Music on 7th East and about 8500 south in Sandy has a decent selection for a little shop. The Acoustic Musician is in a shopping center on the southwest corner of 90th south and 7th East. They've got some interesting instruments, and especially they have some nicer mandos that you don't see in most music stores. |
|
| |
Praise Music