Posted 2020-03-27 2:26 PM (#551660 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: February 2014 Posts: 704
Location: moline,illinois
Ken I saw this on facebook the other day did you see that its X-braced not the usual Quintad Adamas fan bracing?
Also it says it has an Adamas X-Braced Lyrachord body...I didn't think they was any bracing in the bowls???
Pretty guitar not sure why they keep going mid-depth on there new models a Deep Bowl on this would rule.
Here's a link to the specs https://www.ovationguitars.com/adamas/U581T-SPM
Posted 2020-03-27 7:01 PM (#551663 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ
I hate to be cynical but I'd set the over/under at 15 and strongly put my money on the under.
I'm sure it's a nice guitar, don't get me wrong. But it just seems like yet another insanely expensive limited edition in a niche configuration that probably has very limited mass market appeal. I would LOVE to read the business plan behind this guitar.
Posted 2020-03-27 7:22 PM (#551664 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal
I admit that I like this guitar. If anybody remembers, a former member here (Jeff W.) had a custom Adamas built based on the #47 Reissue. Except he had it built with a mid depth bowl, like this one. I only played it once, but I thought it was steller in how it tamed the bass from the deep bowl Adamii. Wonderful guitar. The direct out was what was used on the FD14. And I like the concept of the new bridge. I think this guitar has real potential.
I must have missed the price....
Of course, how that translates into sales, I don't have a clue......
Posted 2020-03-27 10:26 PM (#551668 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: December 2003 Posts: 848
Location: Canada
It has major wow factor for me but I already have more than double the number of guitars I ever wanted. I just hope that they can get these in the hands of some major artists for publicity.
Posted 2020-03-28 7:42 PM (#551676 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: February 2016 Posts: 1801
Location: When??
I think us finger pickers and thumb strummers would like it. Deep bowl might be nicer though. Too lazy to go look up a price, but I know it's more than I have to spend. Thanks for posting, Ken!
Posted 2020-03-28 10:24 PM (#551677 - in reply to #551663) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: February 2014 Posts: 704
Location: moline,illinois
Standingovation - 2020-03-27 7:01 PM
I hate to be cynical but I'd set the over/under at 15 and strongly put my money on the under.
I'm sure it's a nice guitar, don't get me wrong. But it just seems like yet another insanely expensive limited edition in a niche configuration that probably has very limited mass market appeal. I would LOVE to read the business plan behind this guitar.
Is the over/under price or number they'll make/sell???
Posted 2020-03-29 9:37 AM (#551681 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ
OK, now the Adamas MD80 is one that might actually appeal to a decent sized part of the market. Seems very similar to the original "Cateye" model which was a great guitar. Just my opinion but with a 14 fret cutaway, more traditional onboard preamp, stealthy black carbon fiber looks I think this is much more main stream that the U581 not a big a leap for the non ovation fan to be interested in.
Btw, can anyone make heads or tails of Ovations model numbering?
Posted 2020-03-29 9:51 AM (#551682 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: December 2003 Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA
Hey, nice guitar... but I am so glad to see Mark Kroos getting cozy with Ovation! Met this guy at our Olalla Americana Music Festival and he is a genuine Artist!
Posted 2020-03-29 1:07 PM (#551684 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: August 2009 Posts: 1137
Location: Germany, where delicious wine is growing (Rheinh)
For me it is a mix out of an Ute, a 1680 and a 50th-Anni..... But the new mid-bowls are sounding pretty nice. All three guitars are sounding very nice.
BTW, I have all the 3 originals..... but who knows....
Posted 2020-03-30 6:29 AM (#551692 - in reply to #551658) Subject: RE: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 25
Location: G.B.
I'm sure it's a nice guitar, don't get me wrong. But it just seems like yet another insanely expensive limited edition in a niche configuration that probably has very limited mass market appeal. I would LOVE to read the business plan behind this guitar.
; O ) For a niche manufacturer that managed to do only about 20,000 guitars in less than 40 years of business, ie a touch over 1 guitar for every day that went by, is a plan necessary?
I suppose Ovation guitars carried Adamas guitars over the years and we should be grateful for that, so one can only wish for Korean/Tawanese/Indonesian/non USA made Ovations to be a success, otherwise, there will be no USA made Adamas to continue the tradition...
Another worthy question, do I mind if Adamas sleeps away gracefully into the lore? Not one bit...
I like the guitar, not necessarily the company that made them or the plans behind the product...
I firmly believe that the CD area has killed the ears of most people... I've been told to stop playing with others, not because I'm hopeless, but because my Adamas sounds too good...
Most of them want garbage, play on garbage to garbage audiences that keep talking and drinking beer and couldn't be bothered and would probably rather look at some sport on the digital channels while their bellies expand...
Posted 2020-03-31 5:09 PM (#551715 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: August 2009 Posts: 1137
Location: Germany, where delicious wine is growing (Rheinh)
Thanks, Love O Fair!
Oh no. Maybe Dave could do that. I only own a few of them (almost specialities). But when COVID-19 is over and we are still alive, you are welcome to try them out.....
Posted 2020-04-01 8:46 PM (#551730 - in reply to #551676) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Love O Fair - 2020-03-28 9:42 AM
Thanks for posting, Ken!
You're welcome Al!
Have no idea what kinda sales these new offerings will garner, but putting their best voiced instruments up front doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. I think the Mothership is trying to make a transition for the Adamas line into the competitive boutique build market while maintaining enough sales to keep their Asian production going. Having been as big as O has been in the past, it's a tough pill to swallow, but DWs gotta be thinking survival... Now that they've got their 2016/17 US model over-build inventory back under control, gotta be thinking about keepin' the amazing luthier folk at New Hartford working.
Older fans (I guess I would fall in this category) are gonna have a hard time adjusting to the new prices though. Personally, I don't make the kinda salary that enables me to even think about purchasing a new Adamas - especially when I can pick-up a 1680 in good condition for half the price. Attracting new customers requires marketing dollars which DW probably doesn't have or hasn't budgeted for their O line...
Seems to me (since the cost of lyrachord has got to be pretty set) DW would be better off making inexpensive wood box Celebritys or Applauses built in their China facility instead of trying to make a splash in the boutique market with the Californian SR1. You can get an all solid wood MIC dreadnought for about 200 bucks here in Japan. Contract out for the short-term, re-tool for the long haul. No reason to think O's designers wouldn't be able to come up with some innovative stuff for the low-end market. Toss in some inexpensive passive transducer pickups and make them acoustic/electrics (they're only 5 bucks retail and sound decent enough for an entry level guitar). Brand it as a "related but separate entity" offering and make it a cash cow.
Of course, transitioning woodbox O customers to bowl-back afficionados will be an interesting challenge, and inspiring the publics dwindling interest in guitars is a whole different thing, but you need the cash to have a strong marketing budget to hire the talent to inspire new guitar players in an emerging market (of course, the US and/or Japan are not "emerging" markets). So, much of the target marketing may not even be visible to us!
In any case, having been through the 2014~present roller coaster ride, it is nice to see the Mothership looking ahead, and trying different things to keep moving forward. I'm still cheering for O over here in the Far East.
Okay, okay, I'll shut-up already! Everybody stay inside, play your Os, and stay safe!
Posted 2020-04-02 3:51 PM (#551733 - in reply to #551692) Subject: RE: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 1555
Location: Indiana
I've been told to stop playing with others, not because I'm hopeless, but because my Adamas sounds too good... Most of them want garbage, play on garbage to garbage audiences that keep talking and drinking beer and couldn't be bothered and would probably rather look at some sport on the digital channels while their bellies expand... Patrick
Really don't intend on picking a fight, Patrick, but that's a REALLY large paintbrush you're using there. There are many young/aspiring and aging/ancient musicians in my world who don't fit there. Lots of passion, discerning about their instruments... lots of opportunity for exposure in this age.
I will admit you've taken the meme a step further by saying BOTH the artists AND the audiences are ALL garbage. I get to play for so many attentive and decerning people every year. They are committed listeners... they travel to listen... and they support the artists they like.
Posted 2020-04-03 8:13 AM (#551738 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 25
Location: G.B.
Hi Jonmark, no offence taken!!!
I was trying to talk about audiences, not all the players, some are always happy when I show up with my Adamas...
I know a few amazing players but they can't make a living as musicians in GB...
Too much "free" music about and not enough proper crowds!!!
Plenty of studio and cession work, but it's not your music, more like follow the leader.
So, most have a boring day job and only live in the evenings...
I'm an alternative music lover as well and it saddens me that bands like the Sun Ra Arkestra play in front of 200 afficionados when they travel in Europe... I don't really want them to play stadiums and loose their hearts, but there should be a happy medium and some recognition somewhere!!!
My other hidden point was, in these circumstances, what's the point of a high range Adamas that these players can't afford cause they're not making the bucks...
Posted 2020-04-04 12:01 AM (#551761 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
<p>For a perspective of price... and I don't know what these cost... but there is a huge Acoustic Guitar Show nearby, that has about doubled in size each year since it started only three years ago?? Anyway... it's a two-story hall full of handmade, wonderful acoustic instruments... very few (if any) under $10K and they sell just fine. Use whatever scale you want to compare, but if you're honest with yourself, no Adamas should go for less than $5K. If it does, just consider it a bargain.</p>
Posted 2020-04-04 1:42 AM (#551766 - in reply to #551761) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: February 2016 Posts: 1801
Location: When??
Mr. Ovation - 2020-04-03 10:01 PM
a huge Acoustic Guitar Show nearby
Lucky you. That sounds like a great thing to take part in. So based on that price scope, I agree on the $5k thing for a brand new Adamas. Heck, that's only about 15% of what may parents bought a new 1,800 sq. ft. house for 55 years ago. Welcome to 2020!
Posted 2020-04-04 2:32 AM (#551767 - in reply to #551761) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: October 2012 Posts: 1034
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Mr. Ovation - 2020-04-03 2:01 PM
...but if you're honest with yourself, no Adamas should go for less than $5K. If it does, just consider it a bargain.
Totally agree with you on that Mr. Ovation. I know, I've gotten so used to thinking of Os and As as "reasonably priced" guitars; but when I hear people playing those expensive boutique guitars - I know I'm biased, but - most Adamii and many O models including my 1678AV50 sound just as good if not better. Which, of course, is another way of saying an Adamas at $5K should seem like a bargain.
Hoping DW will be able to find some creative ways to change the market's mindset about how great these instruments really are, and keep the folks at NH working!
Posted 2020-04-04 11:14 AM (#551773 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: March 2005 Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho
It's almost 10% of our first new house in 1979. I've heard of that guitar show. We've been spending a lot of time in Seattle lately, including right now. When we're not sheltered in place babysitting grandkids, I'll have to make it up to the guitar show.
Posted 2020-04-04 9:37 PM (#551780 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ
I've said this before ...
If Adamas wants to be considered a premium brand among high end guitar aficionados then they need to be priced accordingly. No cork sniffer looking to spend 5 or 10 on a wooden guitar is going to be interested in an Adamas for 3 no matter how good it sounds.
As f-up'd as it may seem, I do firmly believe they would sell more units if they raised the price.
Posted 2020-04-05 12:24 PM (#551786 - in reply to #551780) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: January 2009 Posts: 1249
Location: Texas
I am not going to share what kind of sniffer I am...
But...
If I have deep pockets and am looking to buy a guitar...I damn sure am not going to buy I guitar I cannot sit down and play. That is where the American side of the company is cutting themselves short. Maybe they are satisfied with selling 10 guitars of any model ... to folks that know the brand. Problem is...I would think that approach to marketing would reach saturation fairly quickly.
Posted 2020-04-05 12:56 PM (#551788 - in reply to #551784) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: December 2008 Posts: 1453
Location: Texas
Old Man Arthur - 2020-04-05 6:19 AM
Just to agree with everyone...
I remember many people implying that Ovations must be crap
because they didn't cost as much as (insert name).
That may have been true in more recent years, but it’s kind-of the opposite of what I remember from the “glory days”;
I bought my first Ovation because it sounded better than many guitars that cost twice as much. Back in the day, Ovation promoted their innovative use of modern technology to produce a superior product at a lower cost. It was a “working musician’s” guitar. Affordable, durable, playable, (plug-in-able) and they sounded great. That was a believable and successful marketing strategy back then. (It worked because it was true.)
Obviously the marketing strategy for Adamas guitars was (and is) much different, but, imo, there has to be a point of diminishing returns where higher prices = lower volume reaches a point where the product is no longer viable. (Sad, but, imo, inevitably true.)
Posted 2020-04-06 6:38 PM (#551802 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: March 2002 Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal
Wasn't I the one, at an OFC gathering at the factory, who got booed for suggesting that Ovation didn't charge enough? I thought then and now that a low price indicated a cheap guitar, not necessarily a great deal......
Posted 2020-04-12 9:19 AM (#551846 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: November 2002 Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Did a brief search on the internet about availability & MSRP, with no success. I see the Adamas website has the U581T listed, anyway. Call it simple, morbid curiosity, I guess. I really don't have $5K to drop on a guitar. Anybody got a clue?
Posted 2020-04-30 7:32 AM (#551991 - in reply to #551658) Subject: Re: New U581T Adamas!!
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ
Nice to see Adamas getting some price respect, and it's probably better than a lot of other guitars in that price range.
It's too bad you have to buy it in order for them to actually build it. I think that will make it very tough to get any interest from wooden guitar buyers.
New U581T Adamas!!
