|
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | 60% of the staff were terminated yesterday
I feel for these guys many of whom I’ve known for years
One in particular has worked there 45 years his entire working career
I’m not going to publicly speculate but I’m sure some sort of announcement of change is forthcoming |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 848
Location: Canada | Oh wow, this is some sad and gloomy news. And there I thought it was going well with new and almost affordable US models coming out. I can only guess that the market response was not so overwhelming. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Really sorry to hear that. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4226
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I admit that I have been worried. That doesn't make it sting any less though. I hate it when the only truthful thing to be said is "We can only hope for the best...."
Edited by Patch 2018-04-13 11:07 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | Uhm...they couldn't have employed that many to begin with....10? I read an article that a year and a half after they re-opened their doors, they only had 5 employees.
A new chapter? My guess...Overseas will continue to produce guitars. Hopefully, the MS will remain open for repairs, warranty and special orders...once you get to the "hope" stage, there is not much left.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Yuck! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | The traditional American dream just keeps chip-chip-chipping away. I'm so glad I was born when I was. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2015
Posts: 118
Location: New Britain, Ct | Glad I picked up my 3 American made O's when I did, What a shame the guitar consumers let the best U.S.A. guitars go away. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | The largest production center may become the BFLG. :-) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | I've thought all along Ovations primarily only held a fascination with most of us old enough to remember their heyday when they first came out and were being played in concerts by our favorite rock stars, or in my case as well, by Glenn Campbell. I remember well my frantic search to learn what that roundback guitar was. I haven't seen much of a marketing effort to try and reestablish much awareness of them in way too many years. I was very hopeful, as I'm certain most here were, that the new owners would revitalize the brand. I guess they haven't seen enough ROI to keep trying? It's too bad. Ovations remain a very innovative guitar with a unique sound that graced many classic recordings. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Sad I most likely know them |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2004
Posts: 2850
Location: Midland, MI | Haven't been around these parts in a looooooooooong time, but this is sad news, Al. Heritage just went through a similar exercise. If Bandlab ends up owning Ovation/Hamer, I think I'm just going to puke.
I'll keep dinking away on my 1768-4 and Adamas II, reminisicing about the OFC gathering at the factory I was fortunate enough to attend (with two other Michiganders kind enough to haul me out there) way back when.
The times they are a-changin'...but -4 is still the best finish, you know. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | -1 ones sound better....or so I am told |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | Nothing new in this theory, but I think it's a generational thing simply because they are different... and being different in things like guitars and cars and fashion most often leads to an era-association-- "your dad's type of guitar". Very few young people want that image, no matter how good they sound or how well they're built, so therein and therefore began the decline in the mid 90's. If they were flat wood back like other guitars they would probably still be popular on the new and young market like other brands. I came to terms with this around 10 years ago when I saw a video an Ovation smashing party by a bunch of 20-somethings. They violently destroyed 5 of them on stage simple to make a point about Ovations being for old people. Turned my stomach. But it is what it is. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Since this conversation has drifted to the "nobody likes Ovations" syndrome...
I always have to add that in 10+ years of playing Ovations on the street very few people have told me that "Ovations suck". And nobody whose opinion mattered. I have had a few guitarists tell me that they do not like the bowl, or that they do not like the sound (to much Mid-range), but that is not the same as saying that Ovations are crappy guitars. And those same guitarists still like to Play my Ovations.
There are lots of guitars that I "don't like" and wouldn't buy, that does not make them bad guitars.
Conversely, I have had waaaay more people compliment my Ovations.
People stand in awe of my Adamas.
I have 3 CArgo guitars that I play all winter in crappy weather. So, in the Winter and Spring you are more likely to see me with a CArgo out on my corner. People still call me the Ovation Guy.
People still compliment my Ovations, and that include 20-something kids, as well as older people who still wish that they had that Ovation that they owned in the 70's or 80's.
Don't blame the guitar for "business decisions".
BTW-- This **** started with F****r.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | Or maybe Ovation just hit a point of saturation where there is not enough demand to support the cost to make the supply. The secondary market provides a lot of access to comparable Ovations for less than 1/2 the cost of a new one. That has to be a mitigating factor working against DW's effort to re-establish the brand, combined with the Asain O's...which really look good...again for at least 1/2 the price. Times change. That worked in Ovations favor for a long time.
Edited by jay 2018-04-15 6:56 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1555
Location: Indiana | Or maybe this goes to the broader discussion of Americans who want to bring jobs back home who haven't yet grappled with the expanded out-of-pocket cost that will require...? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | ehhhhhhhh
lets look at the shape of a traditional martin.....
how long have they been making that shape???????
300 years??????
400 years??????
so how is it that an Ovation is an old people's guitar when the traditionally shaped guitar has a much longer lineage?
the problem lies in the product manager who took it over with DW and went for a market that was no an emerging one but one that was just stagnant.
the focus was not on great sounding instruments or unique qualities but on trying to become like all the other brands.
when we see import Adamas guitars.....game totally over. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Alpep - >>>so how is it that an Ovation is an old people's guitar when the traditionally shaped guitar has a much longer lineage? <<<
I would think it's because Ovations DON'T have a long history. "Old people" is a relative meaning. Many among younger consumer ranks consider them a.. for lack of a better term.. "fad" of the 60d-80s.. and that image never went away for them.. at all. Ovations came and went in their minds. And now, since they're in their 30s+40s, and represent a sizable portion of the buyer's market, I think they influence a margin that has significant impact on bottom line at New Hartford. It's certainly not the only reason.. but it's definitely a contributing element.
You (Al) didn't specify in the original post if the 60% was system-wide, but since you mentioned that you know them I assume it was limited to New Hartford. If that is indeed the case, I think that Ovation, as a brand, is probably on pretty safe ground. Youngsters of today are clearly coming back to Ovation. Online videos are full of them. They, neither, want their dad's guitar.. but certainly aren't ready yet to purchase the expensive ones. I'd suspect that Ovation's Asian producers are probably looking forward to hiring people, not laying them off. Since the Fender debacle ended, the Asian quality has gone up substantially.
And it's not like "people" don't like Ovations. In a general sense they do, and the broad range warm sentiment will always be there. A total Coke-Pepsi balance as always. My reasoning on the layoff is about current market demand vs. American wage math vs. model types produced.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-15 9:54 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2016
Posts: 37
| I guess I am in the minority, but probably the biggest reason why I became a lifelong Ovation enthusiast was from playing "my dad's guitar" when I was young. Go figure... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 597
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA | Hey, Everyone,
Does this mean that the OVATION brand is done like dinner, as in Larson Bros., Ditson, Stromberg guitars, or cars such as Rambler, Studebaker, Hummer, etc., etc? I can't seem to find the Ovation.com website now, but we did have a real freaky ice storm here today, so maybe the technology/ power is also wonky in the YOOESSOVEH?
Mike S.
Ottawa, ON.,
CANADA
Edited by Mike S. 2018-04-15 11:33 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | To piggyback on what Alpep posted, I just don't think NOW is the time to sell high-end Acoustic guitars to the masses. I'm probably gonna get some flack for this, but there are two elements that are at the core of a USA made Ovation that while desired by many, are NOT desired by most. Oh sure, if you play at home for yourself, or groups of friends, then yes, the sound is really important. However, it's 2018. If you are LIKE MOST guitar players, you are playing to sound and look good on a YouTube video, or you are actually playing live in anything from a coffee house to a stadium. But the MAJORITY of guitar players TODAY are playing to SOUND and to LOOK good on Video. With technology, even the most basic technology the way it is... You don't need a $3000 guitar for that. In fact, as long as the damn thing stays in tune and LOOKS COOL, that's all you need.
Now the other part of the coin (excuse the pun). Where a guitar is made is of little interest to MOST guitar players. Yes, MANY guitar players prefer a guitar made in the USA, but MOST could care less. There are FINE guitars being made all over the globe, especially in the electric world.
Now I'm going to contradict all of that. A currently BOOMING industry is that of Boutique acoustic guitars. We're talking $10,000 and up in price, from private luthiers. The Acoustic Guitar Festival here in Washington is amazing. It nearly doubled in size in as many years, they essentially take over a small town, and I'm guessing they are going to have to expand to multiple venues in the next couple of years. Most of these guitars that you don't ask the price because if that is a concern, they are not for you. They are amazing, and they sell. But you won't see Taylor, or Martin or Ovation or Gibson or even Collings at this event.
Finally, let us talk Connecticut for a moment. DW got a lot of really good free press to re-open the factory. It was great PR, not for reopening the Factory as such, but for doing that in Connecticut. There has been a mass exodus from the Nutmeg state for many years. It is NOT an industry-friendly state anymore. Honestly, that in itself could be reason enough to ramp back the facility and staff. It might just not be sustainable to have a facility in Connecticut. Many MANY MANY have left. Thriving companies moved to remain thriving, and starving companies moved and are now thriving. Either way... it was a plain shock to see a company move TO Connecticut. In the long run, the layoffs and whatever happens next, the more I think about it... may have little or NOTHING to do with guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Mr. Ovation - >>>It might just not be sustainable to have a facility in Connecticut.<<<
Interesting statistic. Perhaps hello Oxnard? Build all USA DW products under the same California roof now that their Connecticut PR value has run its course? Much less facility cost. Complete speculation, of course. I guess that one would have to be a fly on the wall in the head office to be privy to the next step(s) involving USA-made guitar stock.. be it forward or backward. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 755
Location: Muenster/Germany | Mr. Ovation - 2018-04-16 10:43 AM
A currently BOOMING industry is that of Boutique acoustic guitars. We're talking $10,000 and up in price, from private luthiers.
.
That is the problem, there is only a market for cheaper or very expensive products, because there are more poor and more rich people. We are loosing what were calling middle class.
Business economists are the new plague of mankind.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1555
Location: Indiana | Mike S. - I can't seem to find the Ovation.com website now www.ovationguitars.com |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Love O Fair - 2018-04-16 7:32 AM
@Mr. Ovation - >>>It might just not be sustainable to have a facility in Connecticut.<<<
Interesting statistic. Perhaps hello Oxnard?
Not ALL USA-made locations are equal.
Made in New Hartford CT USA is not the same as Made in Oxnard CA.
(have you ever BEEN TO Oxnard?)
Big difference between
"made in a century-old building next to the Farmington River in the woods of New England" and
"made in an industrial park next to Goodwill Outlet and the Irrigation Slough near the Onion Fields of Oxnard."
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2018-04-16 3:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Arthur - >>>Not ALL USA-made locations are equal. Big difference between.<<<
I don't get it. Same materials, craftsmanship and tools. Miles mentioned the constant expansion of people eager to spend $10k on guitars being made by many individual luthiers, obviously coming from a vast array of location types. Why would the scenery outside the shop make any difference at all in the quality of the product being produced inside? It doesn't seem that the quality of DW's USA-made drums is at all diminished by being produced at their Oxnard plant. They make great products there. Why not guitars, too? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I guess I might be considered unpatriotic, but I don't care so much where something is made as who made it. I appreciate the craftsmanship, skill and care that these guys demonstrated over the years. If the same craftsman made Ovations in Oxnard, I wouldn't care.
On the other hand, I also appreciate history and preservation of historic buildings. I never made it to a factory tour. I've never been to Connecticut. I don't know if there's anything to draw me there now. I doubt that going to the place where they used to make Ovations will do it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Right now, until announcements are made, we are all just blowing smoke. We got no idea what's coming. But I will say, OMA, that I felt about Oxnard the way you do. Until I went there and explored. It's an up and coming city with an interesting mix of farm land, ocean front property, luxury hotels, and a growing business base. I would have no problem if Ovations were built there.
As for what I would like or think is going to happen, it would just be speculation. I got no crystal ball, so I'll just wait and see. And enjoy my Ovations..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 841
Location: CA | I actually DO have an O from the '70s. . . 1111-4 bought new in 1971 for around $200. Not because it looked cool, because it sounded better than everything else in the music store that was at or even double the price. Been halfway around the world, broken neck and various contusions, but still sounds pretty freakin good.
Sorry to hear about Ovation (nobody actually said "Ovation factory", but assuming this is what you are all talking about). Wish some Daddy Warbucks would step in and keep 'em going. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Maybe DW is now able to answer the age-old question:
“How do you make a small fortune making guitars?”
“Start with a large fortune.” |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Love O Fair - 2018-04-16 2:19 PM
I don't get it. Same materials, craftsmanship and tools.
Not the same "craftsmanship" because it is not the same Craftsmen.
moody, p. i. - 2018-04-16 4:35 PM
But I will say, OMA, that I felt about Oxnard the way you do.
I have not been there since 1980's. And that was only to go over to Oxnard because you could catch a Freight Train out of there. I was in Ventura. Hop a Freight back up North to the Bay Area. Grab some water and beer and snacks. Hop a Grainer, and be in Oakland the next morning. 
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2018-04-16 7:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | OMA, I never had a good impression of Oxnard. It was a small farming community outside of Ventura. But I've been there looking around over the last 5 years and I'm impressed with the area. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Arthur - >>>...you could catch a Freight Train out of there<<<
You learn from hobos the art of catching trains. Locomotives slow at trestles or whistle stops to hook the mail. Diving into an open boxcar, you lay there until your breath comes back. Then standing in the doorway you're the king as crowns of hills and towns go by, and nighttime eats the summer up, and spits the stars across the sky.
--Rod McKuen
(just thought I'd toss that in there)
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-16 9:11 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | What is important is the fact that we all have Ovations that we love and cherish. And there will be enough great vintage Ovations at reasonable prices for the remainder of our rapidly shortening lifetimes! Play your Ovation and enjoy your life!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @nerdydave
+1! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | I really thought the Bluebird reissues would have turned things around ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6994
Location: Jet City | Old Man Arthur - 2018-04-16 1:01 PM have you ever BEEN TO Oxnard?( Born there. And I don't think the location matters as much as the people that have decades of experience building them. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | well we know where the experience is |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'd be surprised if costs in California are much lower than Connecticut, but maybe. Californians keep moving here because it's too expensive to live in California (and they've already filled up the other places on the coast). Wages are much lower. Maybe Ovation should move here. Lots of good spruce |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Damon67 - 2018-04-17 12:44 PM
Born there. And I don't think the location matters as much as the people that have decades of experience building them.
Precisely. It matters to me who creates my Artistic Pieces. Model Horses, Jewelry, my Guitars. It makes the piece more personal to me. I accept that this doesn't mean squat to DW, but it means something to me. And I don't like how they handled this, standard business practice or not. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Pueblo West, CO | Having worked in the computer industry for most of my adult life, lay-offs are a part of that industry's landscape and I've been laid-off several times.
In cases like this the decision is entirely financial, not personal. There's not much enjoyment to be had in laying people off from a position.
I don't blame the management. They had to make the tough decision borne of today's guitar market.
I am thoroughly grateful for DW's attempt to bring back the Ovation brand.
They may yet succeed, but only if they're able to find a spot in today's market. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | When I was younger I thought that seniority was worth something. If not respect, at least financial security. When I got old, I realized that "old" was the only thing that I got from seniority. Management may not put any number on experience, except possibly a negative number. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Mark - >>>When I was younger I thought that seniority was worth something.<<<
I've been a self-employed corporate supply vendor my entire career.. since age 19.. and I remember realizing around my mid thirties how nice it was to be doing business with people my same age when it came to client management and negotiation. Then, as Mark said, I thought it would continue on with respect and security. Nope. The machine just doesn't run that way. Attrition is inevitable in most every field. However, today I am semi-retired and own a seasonal candy company.. and fortunately for me those consumers would much rather enjoy something yummy that's made by an old man with a fired copper cauldron than by a millennial with a digital gizmo cooker. I sorely wish it to be that way for the guys at the mothership as well. Point there being, and again going back again to what Miles said in his post about boutique luthiers, perhaps those who lost their work in New Hartford can band together and explore that market. It is obviously alive and moving forward.. and it would be a shame to know that their talent and expertise go future vacant.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-17 8:51 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | FWIW, no one has said anything about there not being Made In USA Ovations ever again, and no one mentioned anything about closing the CT facility. There are still people there. I think DW made a good investment in an attempt to save Ovation, and I think they are still succeeding. Remember, just a few years ago FMIC ran the brand into the ground, closed the doors and sent everyone home. DW came in and proved there still is a market for Ovation guitars albeit maybe not the market they hoped for, and not the market we would like, but a market just the same.
The first 5 years are the hardest for any company, and it takes on average 3 years to work out all the kinks. Oh look, we're looking at the three-year mark now!!! So it's time to make some changes to make a go of it or get out. I hope they make a go of it, we'll just have to see.
As far as where the guitars are made... I think there is still some mojo in a made in the USA guitar. However, I don't see any large production coming out of a factory located in arguably the worst place in the country to have a manufacturing facility. Let's face it, the labor costs are far above what people are willing to pay for a guitar, especially in Connecticut not to mention the additional/redundant costs of managing that facility from the other coast.
Time will tell... my fingers are crossed.
P.S. Before hitting submit and checked a bunch of sources of best/worst states to have a business... while the opinions vary... Connecticut falls somewhere after 40th worst state to have a business.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Pueblo West, CO | It would not surprise me in the least if I found that California is ranked lower than Connecticut in the list of best/worst states to have a business. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | California isn't any better than Connecticut for producing. Connecticut has got that Democratic governor that is driving the state
Into the ground. California has the environmentalists that are strangling industry their own way. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | I am curious to know unit production and revenue stats for Ovation's Asian-made guitars in ratio to the same stats per those made in the USA. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I think they should move to Texas, maybe Austin. Good environment, low taxes, and a gas station guy who can come by and kibitz...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | moody, p.i. - 2018-04-18 1:01 PM
I think they should move to Texas, maybe Austin. Good environment, low taxes, and a gas station guy who can come by and kibitz......
Austin has some excellent acoustic guitar companies. Ovation would be a welcome addition for a fact. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Pueblo West, CO | Beal - 2018-04-18 8:31 AM
California isn't any better than Connecticut for producing. Connecticut has got that Democratic governor that is driving the state
Into the ground. California has the environmentalists that are strangling industry their own way.
100% correct. California is a terrible place for a manufacturing company of any type. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | All Y'all got it figured out yet?
thoughts:
- Tacoma would be a great place for a guitar factory.
- I would like to hear what the next plan is from DW/Ovation. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | EJ 16s or 17s, or those hybrid sets Beal talks about now? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | If we only had tomorrow's new today we'd know. But then what would we do tomorrow? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | Play our vintage Ovations!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 2791
Location: Atlanta, GA. | Connecticut has got that Democratic governor that is driving the state Into the ground.
Damn liberals are well on their way to ruining this country.
Edited by cholloway 2018-04-19 10:45 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | moody, p.i. - 2018-04-18 1:01 PM
I think they should move to Texas, maybe Austin. Good environment, low taxes, and a gas station guy who can come by and kibitz......
plus guitar-friendly humidity levels most of the year!
.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | This thread has really kinda turned into a past-days type of thread... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @Darkbar - >>>This thread has really kinda turned into a past-days type of thread<<<
Yeah.. three pages worth for the past days, and we still don't know squat about the outcome. Or did you mean past days as in a group of guitar codgers sitting around dwelling the historical glory? It's that, too. But like NerdyDave said.. there's a huge supply of those still out there to enjoy, many still in great shape, and many owned by the aforesaid codgers, including myself, so I'm good with it. Have to be. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2006
Posts: 75
Location: San Antonio, TX | May have to look in AK when I am there next month to see if they have any A's left in my dream section. They had a WT A 12er last time.. Was a good run.. We who know the special breed of the brand and own some are lucky. My sons will get mine at dirt time. In the end, Olds and Pontiac were cancelled due to low sales and higher profit of core brands. Live the dream and carry on. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 597
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA | Hello, Everyone,
Thanks, Jonmark Stone, for the information. It was/is just our wonky Canadian weather that was not letting me find the Ovation website. It snowed again this week, after we had an ice storm here on the weekend? Yikes! I played one of the original Larrivee, "boutique", guitars, a custom-made L-9 at the time, when I was studying classical guitar in Toronto in 1977. Jean Larrivee taught many young luthiers their craft, ( and yes, you all know who they are, because people now buy their, "boutique", guitars), and other companies like Godin came into being, but these are now USA-based as well. We are definitely losing the middle class here in CANADA, too, because the world has changed so much, since OVATION was introduced to the guitar world in the 1960's. If you have a GO-PRO camera now, YOU-TOO can have your own YOU-TUBE channel, w/ subscribers galore. But will an OVATION guitar be featured in these? Should we loyal OVATION guitar players/ fans continue to subscribe there just to find out, or will we always be looking at videos of our favorite guitar from the point of view the past?
Mike S.
Ottawa, ON.,
CANADA
Edited by Mike S. 2018-04-19 10:23 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Spring has sprung in Portland, Oregon.
It was 70° and partly Sunny.
I will have sunburn on my arms after it matures overnight.
Why am I telling you this?
In Winter weather I use my Adamii and Composite Acoustics guitars.
Since the weather has warmed, I can take my wood-topped guitars out.
Earlier today I took my (made in 1997) Ovation Parlor 5741 guitar out for an hour or so.
It got compliments.
After a Lunch-break, I took out the Sweetwater 1778T (made in 2007).
Some guy told me that it was an Awesome looking guitar.
Old USA Ovations are Still great guitars.
There are 308 used Ovations on eBay right now.
There are 572 used Ovation on Reverb right now.
If the corporate folks don't ever make another Ovation, there will still be a bunch around.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | please keep politics off the OFC
I know we all need someone to blame but that is no constructive and has no purpose here.
All indications are not good for the USA brand....with 5 people in the shop the discontinuing of Adamas guitars, the lay off of the service department...well what exactly can anyone think.....
guess we need a knight on a white horse to ride in....anyone have a few million to spare??? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I thought of the same thing, Al, but I just reinvested my retirement plan. My horse was a bit too small, I'm afraid. Maybe Shetland pony. I can't afford to turn a small fortune into an even smaller fortune. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 704
Location: moline,illinois | This is sad news indeed.
I had not heard they were discontinuing the Adamas model ...that SUCKS!!!!!
Will they continue to do repairs on our existing guitars I have a couple i've been meaning to send in,guess I better get off my butt
I think Ovation was competing with itself by offering both Korean and American versions of Custom Legends And Elites,if you weren't a die hard fan like us and had a choice between a Custom Legend AX or an American made custom Legend for twice the price which would you buy,the cheaper one most of the time I bet,I hope DW finds a way to keep Ovation alive in the meantime I have a collection of some of there finest to appreciate.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I am not sure if they are currently taking repairs....my best guess is no. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | 2wheel drummer
pm me with the model numbers and what is wrong and I will see what I can find out for you |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2015
Posts: 287
Location: Katmandu | It's an oversaturated, tough market for any guitar maker these days. Even the big, long-established fish like Gibson and Fender are struggling. Rejuvenating a guitar brand under these conditions is no easy feat. Here is hope DW has more coin and ideas to spare. What seems like the Omega of the bygone could very well become the Alpha of a new age.
Edited by leonardmccoy 2018-04-22 5:30 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Not to rub salt in anyone's wounds...
But C. F. Martin & Company seems to be doing just fine.
Just sayin'....
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | Old Man Arthur - 2018-04-22 7:30 PM
Not to rub salt in anyone's wounds...
But C. F. Martin & Company seems to be doing just fine.
Um, not so sure that is true. If "doing fine" means that you see players everywhere using Martin guitars then yes, I would agree with you. Same for Taylor, they seem to be "doing fine". But as far as the balance sheet goes, I understand that both of them are sitting on huge inventories of built guitars that the dealers just aren't buying.
The whole business model is in the crapper, no matter what the name is on the headstock. Bigger builders like Martin and Taylor surely have more buffer to weather the storms. And high end boutique builders will always be in demand. But Ovation is in the worst possible spot because they only build a very non-traditional guitar, have no US economy of scale, and the days of being at the top of the wish list for every aspiring player have long since passed. Ovation is the Garrard turntable of the guitar world.
Could it be saved? ... maybe. But it would take a major commitment and rebirthing of not just the instruments themselves, but the entire soul of the company behind it. In my opinion Fender tried to improve the margins by just whittling down the costs (FAIL) and DW tried to window dress the corpse by slapping on some exotic wood drum shells (FAIL).
Yes we all long for the "good old days" and thankfully this forum provides us great access to the vibe-that-once-was. But I am afraid that the reality of the situation (guitar sales and distribution/dealer network) is far worse than our rose colored glasses allow us to perceive. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | It's sad, yes, but isn't it wonderful that 11-15 years ago we got to have a last bit of glory with the advent of the OFC and the factory gatherings?
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 848
Location: Canada | Standingovation - 2018-04-23 7:48 AM If "doing fine" means that you see players everywhere using Martin guitars then yes, I would agree with you. Same for Taylor, they seem to be "doing fine". But as far as the balance sheet goes, I understand that both of them are sitting on huge inventories of built guitars that the dealers just aren't buying. Has DW Drums done enough to get the new guitars into the stores? We have a few guitar stores in town and they are all full of Martins, Taylors, Larrivees, Seagulls, and even Guilds. There used to be the odd Celebrity that hung around with the others, but I have not seen any bowls in Canadian stores for quite some time now. Sure the bruick & mortar stores have their own struggles competing with cheaper online warehouses, but still it's the main point of contact for potential buyers to touch and feel instruments they want to buy. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Pueblo West, CO | I'll have to check again, but I believe I saw new DW-era Ovations in my local (Lake Forest) GC. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | There are Dan, but I think they are imports.
As much as I dislike what's happening, the reality is that in the 70's and 80's, Ovations were cool and different. Plus, they had the best pick up system. Everybody wanted to play them. But as other companies caught up with pickups, Ovation lost ground. There was a hardcore group of loyal players (us), but I think Ovation really struggled in the 90's and 00's with being innovative. Combining that with a shrinking total market, and life gets real tough real fast.
I would guess that what DW discovered is that there is not a demand for $2000-$3500 Ovations. And the people who can pay that kind of money tend to go higher still and get the boutique guitars. Why spend $2500 on a new Ovation when you can buy a used one for $1000-1200?
I think the imports will always be around and my hope is that DW (or whoever the next owner is) puts money into getting that quality lever up as high as possible. $800-$1200 seems to be a good price range for Ovations. Heck, I couldn't even get $1500 for my pristine 30th Custom Legend. How can Ovation get $2500 for a new one? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I disagree moody
There is a market for high end adamas guitars and custom order wood top guitars
Unfortunately the focus was on shallow bowl and making an affordable USA built guitAr
But with limited crew and resources you just can’t crank them out in any numbers to be profitable
I put in my opinion to whom ever would listen....
They did not
Instead focus was on redesigned headstocks and new preamp systems that are available in many other companies
If they housed this new system in the ovation modular can and you could swap them it would have been more advantageous
But what the hell do I know....
I only sell this guitars and use them for a living ....
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2017
Posts: 11
| I'm very sorry to read about the problems at Ovation. The truth is that I am a middle aged professional Brit who took up guitar a couple of years ago. I've been playing electric but when I started to want an acoustic I had no question over which brand I wanted. I absolutely didn't want a traditional looking guitar and I loved the look of Ovation and the wiry lively sound of Ovations played by various artists.
I would have loved a USA made Ovation but cost was prohibitive - £3500 was just too much. Over the past coup[le of years I have bought American made guitars - A Fender American Standard Strat I picked up for £899, a Gibson Les Paul Studio Faded for £599 both made in the USA, both excellent guitars.
The simple fact of the matter is that for most people, even people who are serious about the instrument anything over £1000 is considered expensive and is sold in very small quantities. Ovation were aiming at a very small market segment at their USA prices so I bought a Far East manufactured Elite 2778 for around £649. It's a gorgeous guitar and my luthier was very impressed with it when he had it in for set-up. If the Far Eastern guitars were £649 and the USA made ones £1000 ish or a bit more I would have bought USA made, but because of the price difference I didn't.
Just my thoughts, I'm very sad about it but the market for everything is nowadays very price sensitive.
Jon |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I think the days of the "big" guitar companies are numbered, but that does NOT mean the end of great guitars. Just look at this list of folks displaying guitars in a little tiny town in the Pacific Northwest. Most of these guitars are several thousands of dollars and they seem to sell well enough. Just not in great volumes. But this is the 2nd annual festival here, and it looks almost twice the size of last year. http://laconnerguitarfestival.com/luthiers.html
At the Tacoma Guitar show last weekend, plenty of solid body builders as well. And for those who say "kids aren't into playing instruments" well just get your head out of the sand, you're not looking in the right places. There were quite a few teens and twenties that were well versed in New, Vintage, and everything in between and could play circles around most of us.
I don't know what Ovation has planned in the long term... but slimming down and limiting what they do might be just the shot in the arm they need to get on top again.
Remember, not sure if I posted this here or on Facebook, but Ovation is only a 5-year-old company. Yes, you read that right. After Fender and after closing, DW came in and essentially started from scratch. So let's see what they can do.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 704
Location: moline,illinois | Not even 5 years for DW/Ovation,purchased from FMIC in 2015 I believe with the first new models coming out for 2016 50th anniversary so this is there third year,I hope they can make a run of it but I still think discontinuing the Adamas line is a big mistake.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | Musical instruments seem to me to be a market that never has supported massive production over any period of time. The 60's and 70's were an anomaly for guitars, and now the market is returning to what is sustainable.
There will always be an entry level market, but the number of people who continue with an instrument beyond the beginner stage will be limited. Those people will be interested in buying fine instruments, so there will always be a market for nicer instruments, but it will be a small market.
The error at KMC after the Kaman family left was to think of guitars as any other commodity. The owners worried about market share and ROI. Maybe guitar manufacturers should be satisfied with a healthy smaller business rather than trying to put a guitar in every bedroom.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | certain companies get it right
rickenbacker sells all the instruments they make they are backed up for a couple of years....don't care you want one....you wait.....
collings seems to have a good model also
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | alpep - 2018-04-29 12:51 PM
certain companies get it right
rickenbacker sells all the instruments they make they are backed up for a couple of years....don't care you want one....you wait.....
collings seems to have a good model also
I'd be happy to see Ovation in that class. 15 or so guitars per year. Maybe work up to a few Adamas per year, all custom order. Seems to work for others. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | But jgorse you could have bought a great used American made Ovation for much less than a thousand pounds. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | For example---
On Saturday my niece (34 year-old) showed me three music videos she had made. They turned out “okay”. Many of our family play various instruments, though she does not. When I told her that she is welcome anytime to come over and record at my home studio with me and my gear, she looked at me somewhat baffled. Her reply was, “Why would I need any of that when I have this?”
Yep.. 100% of the music she used for her videos is available online for free. Thousands of tracks of beat, melody, rhythm, etc-- whatever she needed from practically any type of pre-fab instrumental sound that can be pasted together on a smart phone in one easy sitting. The combinations are endless. The only thing she added was her own singing voice. Is any of it her own original work? Nope. It’s simply painting by the numbers in terms of so-called “instrument” and choice of sound progression. Does she care? Nope. Not in the least. Do any of her many millennial-age friends care? Nope. In fact the whole lot of them applaud it like zoo seals barking for more fish. Are they willing to pay hundreds, or thousand, of dollars for instruments? Nope. At age 34 did we care? Yep. Did we buy instruments? Yep.
So here we are with the Mother Ship closing down jobs, Gibson declaring bankruptcy yesterday.. and so on. I guess that we should just be glad that we (most of us) were born when we were. Our music composition had flavor. Their composition has-- I don’t even know what-- but it sure isn’t flavor. Certainly, there are some of their generation and beyond who will continue forward with traditional musical tastes and endeavors; albeit, quite clearly not enough with desire for that real flavor to keep the mainstream instrument industry succeeding at the level it has for prior centuries. Welcome to 2018. Lazy is cool... creative work is not. The future is, obviously, not our past.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-05-01 4:22 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2013
Posts: 101
Location: NW Indiana | Love O Fair, you nailed it. We are living in strange times ( "Lazy is cool, creative work is not" ). Sometimes I feel bad that the current generation is missing out on what we have experienced, but (and no offense meant toward your niece's generation) their attitudes are causing the the problems with Ovation and Gibson, etc. You are right that we are lucky to have been born at a time where we lived through some of the greatest music in history. I just got home from band practice where 5 old guys are recreating the music from the 60s for our 50th Class Reunion. Lots of Ovations, Gibsons, Strats and Ricks creating the mood. At Reunions of the future, a robot will probably plant a music chip in the brain while attendees dance motionlessly behind opaque glasses. Maybe by then there will even be a pill for a virtual hangover. Best wishes, and may the guitar gods save us all. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 270
| Let's not get into the "kids today" trap. I can almost hear the old timers of the 60s complaning about Moog Synthesizers and those plastic Ovation guitars.
There's a lot of creativity in much of what the younger generations are doing with videos, recordings, etc., way beyond what I could ever have imagined doing, even if I could have afforded the film.
Not all of them are relying on pre-recorded music, I've seen some amazing videos with multi-track recordings made by a young person playing multiple instruments. At least Love O Fair's niece is singing and recording and, hopefully she can be coaxed into Love o Fair's studio to see what is really possible.
Edited by BCam 2018-05-02 10:54 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @BCam - "Let's not get into the "kids today" trap ... There's a lot of creativity in much of what the younger generations are doing with videos, recordings, etc."
I agree. Any art is better than no art. And what truth has always been said about art?? That it's subjective to both creator and beholder. Fair enough. This is "their" art.
But what I said about their music composition's "flavor" was not necessarily about the finished product, but rather "composition" referring to the means by which they achieve it, with so many people simply pulling the same free material off the same free rack as everyone else without even standing up, much less to purchase a tool to carve out their own, distinct sound. After a 15+ years of millions and millions of people settling on this method, in comparison to those of us who bought actual instruments (during our comparative ages), there's no possible way that this would not have direct and substantial impact on a musical instrument industry that was designed and shaped with us "old timers" and centuries of our prior ancestors in its consumer cross-hairs. It's huge, and it is obviously a very strong element in the industry's descending spiral. Henry Ford wreaked pure hell on the horse business. In turn, the edit-and-mix guys are wreaking hell on the wood, brass and catgut business.
As for the final renderings of today's methods.. heck yes.. have at it. That's just another case of subjectivity as always; age-minded or otherwise. Just different gear. I actually have a rather large collection of 2000's electronica and club mix music, some of which I've built myself. No, it's not the genre that's causing the problem. It's the lack of desire, or need, actually, to utilize a range of certain personally creative tools that not long ago were required. Which brings us to...
>>>hopefully she can be coaxed into Love o Fair's studio to see what is really possible. <<<
Oh, she will.. even if I have to drag her kicking into the booth. Great voice. But I've pretty much given up my hopes of getting anywhere much beyond "it hurts my fingers" when I hand her a guitar. We've lost her and millions of others on that count. They'll never come back.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-05-02 1:59 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2011
Posts: 887
Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | All that matters is that we play our Ovations and sing the old songs and revel in every millisecond!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Pueblo West, CO | BCam - 2018-05-02 8:53 AM
Let's not get into the "kids today" trap. I can almost hear the old timers of the 60s complaning about Moog Synthesizers and those plastic Ovation guitars.
There's a lot of creativity in much of what the younger generations are doing with videos, recordings, etc., way beyond what I could ever have imagined doing, even if I could have afforded the film.
Not all of them are relying on pre-recorded music, I've seen some amazing videos with multi-track recordings made by a young person playing multiple instruments. At least Love O Fair's niece is singing and recording and, hopefully she can be coaxed into Love o Fair's studio to see what is really possible.
Here's one by The Academic that does exactly this. They integrated Facebook Live as part of their performance/recording of Bear Claws.The Academic - Bear Claws (Live Looper Version) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 270
| And some people just don't have what it takes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxwHA9kXDKw
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | BCam - 2018-05-02 8:53 AM
Let's not get into the "kids today" trap. I can almost hear the old timers of the 60s complaning about Moog Synthesizers and those plastic Ovation guitars.
There's a lot of creativity in much of what the younger generations are doing with videos, recordings, etc., way beyond what I could ever have imagined doing, even if I could have afforded the film.
Not all of them are relying on pre-recorded music, I've seen some amazing videos with multi-track recordings made by a young person playing multiple instruments. At least Love O Fair's niece is singing and recording and, hopefully she can be coaxed into Love o Fair's studio to see what is really possible.
There is more music being made today by kids with real instruments than at any other time in history. If you aren't listening to it, or can't find it, you're looking in the wrong places.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | My take isn't a sentimental stance. It's merely a fiscal observation. Cause and effect.
It seems I started everyone talking about "kids".. so just to clarify that the people I was referring to above aren't kids. The example I gave is a mature woman in her mid 30's with a professional career and average disposable income—and she well represents sizable, worldwide numbers of quintessential artistic consumers. And I'm not saying that this group is THE cause of guitar companies' struggles, or that ALL people that age are non-instrument buyers, but they are definitely a PART of the current industry imbalance, with a highly influential margin enough to shift essential profit numbers. And it's not just themselves. They don't buy their own kids guitars for Christmas anymore either. They buy them phones and tablets. Can't blame them. It's 2018, not 1988.
@Mr. Ovation - >>>There is more music being made today by kids with real instruments than at any other time in history.<<<
Very true. Today’s avenues of expression (YouTube, Facebook, etc.) have seen to that, along with a vast array of sources of low-to-free-cost music creation tools. Once those phones and tablets are in place-- no budget.. no problem. A wonderfully glorious scenario for many. But… the youth-types we see there are definitely not spending with Ovation (et al) for the brand new equipment that manufactures are geared to profit from.. and I haven't heard where Reverb, Ebay or Craigslist is laying anyone off or declaring bankruptcy either. I wish that my youth years had seen such great selection and price deals on quality pre-owned equipment as youngsters have available online today for their budget bracket.
The current picture is obviously painted by essential evolution of equipment and it’s associated commerce; hence, as the topic title says-- a new chapter. In the meantime, when one door closes another one opens... but it's hell in the hallway. Welcome to the hallway. And other industries have had it much worse. When’s the last time you wrote a paper-printed check to develop a roll of film for a camera you saw on sale on page E-12 of a newspaper ad?
Eventually the musical instrument platforms and business models will adjust, and a leveling point will come, but it's not today. And, sadly, those adjustments cause people in places like New Hartford to hit the unemployment line.. which is what this thread was about in the first place, right?
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I like the example of the "business model"...
Many of the "managers" of Musical Instrument Corporations have been trained in the "business model" of selling a commodity. These people think of selling guitars as the same as selling toilet paper.
And the Shareholders do not care WHAT you do, make, or sell.
They just bought the Stock for a Return on Investment.
And as to the "business model"...
They should think of guitars like an Automobile.
Or maybe think of a Guitar like a Motorcycle.
Even though guitars cost waaay less than a Motorcycle, many other facets are similar.
It is a Large investment Emotionally.
Many people give their Guitars (and cars, and motorcycles) a NAME.
Many people only own One guitar, and they will sell one guitar to buy another.
Many people are Proud to own an OLD, Used, Vintage, Guitar (or car, or motorcycle).
Finally, to the managers of companies like Gibson, or Fender, or Kaman, the MONEY is more important than the Product. That is why Kaman sold KMC. That is why Fender sold KMC.
Most Shareholders don't care if you build a Guitar, or run a Prison, they just want Money.
But a Guitar is NOT toilet paper!
This is why people who have NO Financial attachment to the "company" are still concerned when Ovation, or Gibson, is in Dire Financial Straits.
If a Guitar was a TV set, nobody would care.
Nobody is writing editorials because Zenith TV's are not made in Chicago anymore. They are not made in Mexico anymore. They are not even made at a Zenith plant anymore. They are made at the same Chinese plant as RCA, Emerson, Phillips, and other no-name TV's.
See? You do not CARE about any of Zenith's troubles.
Some famous person once said, "The Love of Money is the Root of All Evil." 
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @OMA - >>>Most Shareholders don't care if you build a Guitar, or run a Prison, they just want Money.<<<
Boy, ain't that the truth! And upper management will connive to great lengths to reel in debtors, or cut quality, or not pay their bills, or can employees, or whatever.. in order to have a nice stack of [other peoples'] cash to point at in luring additional investors to join, no matter what horrid things they know are about to unfold next week. Funny, though, how that same management somehow seems to have sold off their own shares just a few short months ago. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 1609
Location: Colorado | I run a high school. I have far more students wanting to take the guitar class we offer multiple sections of than I can reasonably accommodate. They all provide their own instruments. My school has more than 70% who are on free and reduced lunch. Ergo - they come up with a guitar - some are new and nice - some are beaters - curiously the better players play the beaters at school. Most of them take the course because they enjoy playing, and in their words - it is better than algebra.
Here is a video by some Colorado youngins I know...they are playing and working...good for them. I am working on them to play very hip roundback guitars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spTPx6L4v8Q
Edited by elginacres 2018-05-05 10:02 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 270
| The comment about Reverb, eBay, and CL made me reflect on how much easier it is today to find a good, used guitar than in the old days of classified ads and real, non-electronic bulletin boards. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Say what you will about shareholders just wanting return on their investment, but I'll take a room full of shareholders who want a return on investment over a bank/lender who would actually prefer you fail as that is how they make money.
All businesses have shareholders. Even a sole proprietor is considered to have a 100% interest in their company. Sometimes the shareholder is the bank, sometimes it's family, sometimes it's random members of the public that want to invest. Banks are the worst because the banks have their own shareholders and they essentially make the best money if your business fails.
Back on track... DW and specifically the person that put up the money has a vested interest in Ovation succeeding over time. If they are to be successful, they need to find their audience. That's not going to be easy. Remember, they are only a few years old and a lot of damage was done to the brand. In that same time, marketing and sales dynamics have changed too.
It's sad to see our friends laid off, but at the same time, most were close to retirement and likely got a nice little severance to tide them over. Frankly giving "early retirements" is a true sign of trying to make a go of it either by getting lean and focused or by being in a position to sell. Either way is much better than those people showing up for work one day to chain on the door.
As someone said... it looks like a new door is opening.. I'm excited and a little nervous to see what's on the other side. It doesn't look like Ovation as a brand is going anywhere any time soon. A few years ago, we didn't think we'd ever see a new Ovation again, so I think we're on the right trajectory.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 815
Location: Colorado | Mr. Ovation - 2018-04-29 8:08 PM alpep - 2018-04-29 12:51 PM certain companies get it right rickenbacker sells all the instruments they make they are backed up for a couple of years....don't care you want one....you wait..... collings seems to have a good model also I'd be happy to see Ovation in that class. 15 or so guitars per year. Maybe work up to a few Adamas per year, all custom order. Seems to work for others. +1. Maybe a few more a year...anniversary models could be included in that. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2015
Posts: 190
Location: SW Mintsoda | Isn't the real issue lack of visibility of Ovations today in popular players hands?
There are plenty of well known - and less well known but respected - artists (in Nashville and New York and L.A., etc.) regularly getting on stage with Martins, Gibsons and, yes, Taylors. All of these are now powered by pickups that rival what's in an Ovation. So fans see what their idols are playing, and that's what they want to play.
Simple. If there were MORE high visibility artists (because there are a few, like Kaki King and even ol' Al DiMeola) playing and applauding Ovations (see what I did there?), it would increase demand and - TA-DA - sales!
That is Ovation's biggest challenge. Getting Ovations in the hands of the right people who will sell them by virtue of simply playing them publicly.
Edited by 360Ovation 2018-05-11 12:01 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @360Ovation - >>>So fans see what their idols are playing, and that's what they want to play.<<<
I think a lot of us ended up with our O's and A's on that concept of exposure. But it's still a money gamble to some point. If DW GIVES the famous artist a high-end guitar worthy of the artist's talent and popularity, and the artist chooses to not use it in public, it's a lo$t goner. And if DW requires them to use it public, even if they don't officially endorse it, the fee for just that even starts to get pretty steep.. and with still no sure guarantee that it would be fruitful. With full endorsement comes full cost.. and how much money is DW willing to spend for that? Good question. Who knows? Maybe it'll happen.
Then again, DW could simply hand out a few lower-cost Asian models to a handful of lesser-than-famous, yet very successful, YouTubers who get millions of views by millions of loyal and devoted fans' eyes, and who would be grateful to receive the guitar and promote the brand. That could be a lot of cheap advertising.. until.. that same kid gets a big ego head over the whole matter and decides to go out one day and pummel a sidewalk full of nuns with it. Damn, there's that gamble again. Squeeze the air out of one end of the balloon and it goes straight to the other. Such is business risk.
But yeah.. +1 on the basis of your post. Campbell sold a lot.. a LOT.. of guitars.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-05-11 1:46 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | LOF-- I heard a Rumor that KMC never GAVE an Ovation to anyone to play for "exposure".
The rumor states that the people who you see Playing Ovations BOUGHT those Ovations.
They may be custom order, and they might have been hand-delivered, but they were not Free.
Melissa Etheridge has a story about Buying her first Ovation.
Also, most people nowadays do not watch videos of anyone PLAYING instruments.
(only musicians care what anybody is playing)
Even Country Videos are generally not stage performances.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | Exposure means a ton
I have seen new artists with imports
The market has changed
Imho there is still life in the brand if managed correctly
Remember there are companies that sell every guitar they build and are backordered for years |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @OMA - >>>most people nowadays do not watch videos of anyone PLAYING instruments.<<<
You and I must be looking at a whole different internet. I see available thousands upon thousands of videos of all kinds of people playing all types of instruments. Most don't get huge numbers of views, but some, even though not exactly "famous", get millions of views and have tens of thousands of loyal and dedicated subscriber fans. That translates to an awful lot of viewer eyes, many from fellow musicians, looking at instruments in the hands of popular players. No doubt the potential to harness lots of cheap exposure for the simple cost of a new $600 guitar. Problem is, like I mentioned before, these people do not typically come with a professionally experienced ethic and established grounding that can be trusted to represent the brand in a light that the company expects and would be willing to put themselves into any type of partnership seat with. Certainly not for that price. That is the blockage point that keeps the small-endorser scenario from actually taking place on a myriad of different product types, not just musical instruments. Too risky from an associative liability standpoint. Always has been. But they're definitely out there in video abundance playing instruments (sadly, most of which are not new-purchase, USA-made ones). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I am not talking about the internet.
I am talking about Videos in the Mass Media.
Most people on Late Night shows have Takamines if the have an acoustic guitar.
YOU see video on YouTube of people playing instruments
because that is What You Are Looking For.
Me Too.
All of my favorite YouTube channels are Lesson Videos and Concert Videos.
But if you just looking for a "Music Video", MOST do not have anyone actually "Playing".
I typed "music video" into YT...
One of the Top Three was Ed Sheeran...
So I figure that HE would be playing an instrument... NO.
Riding in a car, eating pizza.
Next video, Childish Gambino. Donald Glover. No Instruments.
Third video, The Academic. This has people playing instruments, sorta.
Mostly some folks clowning around with a Looper.
But, back to "normal" non-musicians...
The go to YouTube to watch stupid people hurt themselves, and cats playing the piano.
Type in "most viewed" in the search, and tell me how many guitar videos you find.
But I will concede that there ARE music videos out there.
I watch PBS all Saturday evening to see ACL, and the other music shows.
I just seem to remember seeing MORE music on Broadcast TV in the 1980's.
I'm sorry. But I just don't see instrumental talent being showcased on my TV screen.
I am old, so I have no idea what the "kids" are watching on their smart phones.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 566
Location: Denmark | Once there was a thread about what made (us) choose Ovation. In my case it had nothing to do with idols or rational considerations like sound or playability but more the aestetics and appearance which means a lot to me. Other people might choose differently.
Edited by tpa 2018-05-12 5:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I always ask young people who are playing an Ovation why they are using that guitar.
always the same answer ....
it is different from what all my friends play....
funny how Ovation can't seem to capitalize on that one point!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @OMA - >>>I am not talking about the internet. I am talking about Videos in the Mass Media. <<<
Thank you for the lively conversation and debate. Always a pleasure to chew the prospective fat.
Yep. I agree. Internet and broadcast TV are two different venues.. though both have eyes watching performers whom those eyes admire, and watching eyes belong to potential market consumers no matter the screen type as long as they are interested in the content. Since very few performers are born into famous resources with a network TV camera pointing at them in the cradle, the vast numbers come up through various exposure ranks just like they always have.. and the internet is by far the most viable in today's upcoming rank mediums. Those who newly appear on major broadcast media seven years from now will certainly have had their performing image on the YouTube-type internet today, no doubt. If companies like DW were able to seek a low cost investment today in what can blossom nicely in the future, I can think of no better source of scouting and monitoring for that than the current internet "stars" of today.
However, the risk in actually putting low investment cost product into their hands is.. well.. see my prior post. IMO, one safe way to do that (if they could afford it) would be to take x-number of guitars out of stock and host a viewer-voting guitar competition among those online "stars" for which the winners would receive the guitars, and thus most likely continue to carry at least some level of faithful loyalty (and attached public persona) to the brand into the potential stardom of their future. That would give relatively low cost exposure to both the competing player and the voting viewer (millions of eyes). But, then again, I don't run the DW marketing department or have control over the cost of the x-number of guitars and hosting expenses it would take to do such a thing.. but it sure has worked for other companies (Lego comes to mind) who have taken that course with various durable-product types. I own a candy company. And even though a few pieces of free candy are far, far less expensive than a musical instrument, the taste buds are leaps and bounds above any other form of effective advertising. Point being.. taste, sight and sound are each unique percipient senses that instantly cause the consumer take notice. Just a different cost and profit scale for them as opposed to us. But it works.
Edited by Love O Fair 2018-05-12 1:29 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | alpep - 2018-05-12 8:29 AM
I always ask young people who are playing an Ovation why they are using that guitar.
always the same answer ....
it is different from what all my friends play....
funny how Ovation can't seem to capitalize on that one point!!
Next marketing Slogan...
"It is not a Martin or a Taylor...
and it is not meant to be."
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | What exactly does famous mean?
Aren’t we all famous? But in varying degrees?
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | What exactly does famous mean?
Aren’t we all famous? But in varying degrees?
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1802
Location: When?? | @alpep - >>>What exactly does famous mean? <<<
If the question pinioned on what I said above about being born into "famous" resources, Hank Williams Junior or Ashley Campbell would be a couple examples of many. Aside from that, I surely agree on all of us being famous by varying degrees. My cat thinks I'm famous every time she hears me play the can opener. Oh, and a kid once asked me for an autograph because I drove a dragster at his local track. My brother was totally rolling in laughter fits when that one happened, but hey, I signed the kid's program (though my life's public fame graph plummeted quite sharply 10 seconds later, never to rise again). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2017
Posts: 11
| But jgorse you could have bought a great used American made Ovation for much less than a thousand pounds.
Nerdydave, I could have and you are right but I would have run the risk of cracked tops, warped necks, the older pickup systems which aren't as good as the newer ones and buying a secondhand Ovation would have done nothing to help the new Ovation company either.
My point is that Ovation need to sell guitars to people at all levels brand new and if they want to support USA manufacturing jobs they need to find a way to get the cost of those USA made instruments down or they will forever be a boutique operation selling high end guitars to artists and wealthy amateurs in small quantities.
The 2007 Ovation price list here shows a Custom Elite 2078 LX was $2449 http://www.jedistar.com/pdf/ovation/ovation_pricelist_2007.pdf
The 2018 pricelist shows the same guitar now costs $3570 - that's very nearly 50% inflation in ten years.
The question has to be why?
Ovation are right in my view to source their lower and middle range guitars from the far East, getting Ovations into the hands of beginners is important as they will be the people who buy a better Ovation in 5-10 years. I am a relative newcomer to guitar but my far Eastern made 2778AX5 is a really nice guitar and far too good for me at present. When I get better I hope I will be able to buy a USA made Ovation and I hope that the brand flourish over the coming years.
As for all the stuff about social media and youtubers I totally agree.
Jon
|
|
| |
A new chapter???