Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...
DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-02 3:15 AM (#541987)
Subject: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Through the Ovation Collector's forum on Facebook I became acquainted with a fellow who goes by the name of Steve McCormick when he related a story about how Jen Chapin, Harry's daughter was on her way to a gig with her Dad's 1613. This is the same guitar seen in the pic of Harry and in those of Jen below . This is the same guitar seen in the video of him playing his song, Taxi. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z-6fAgxKRY)



On the way out of her house, she slipped on the ice and in the fall, she broke her Dad's guitar. Needless to say, she was heartbroken. Jen is a gentle lady who's followed in her father's footsteps into a musical career. For more information about Jen's touring dates or current release, please visit her web site at JenChapin.com.

When I read the story about her and her Dad's guitar, I immediately volunteered to see what I could do. When I got the guitar I saw there were several areas of damage.

First, the top had several splits that run from the top to the bottom. several areas of the top are completely separated from the lining/purfling. The plan is to replace the top with torrefied Sitka spruce using Ovation fan braces.

One of the ears has been broken off the head stock.

And, the head stock/neck area has been previously broken. Close inspection reveals an attempt at a repair with what looks like CA. Unfortunately, CA is not the best glue to use for this type of repair. Since CA was used, the only real way to stabilize the neck/head stock is to remove a portion of the skunk stripe on the back of the neck in this area, inlay a carbon fiber splint, then glue and blend a patch to hide the splint.

There's also a minor fracture in the fiberglass bowl in the upper treble bout.



Not many have polished the foil label in their Ovation guitars. Harry's does.



Edited by DanSavage 2018-04-02 3:20 AM
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arumako
Posted 2018-04-02 3:56 AM (#541988 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Wow Dan! Thought I just caught my breath after drooling over Patch's Parlor. You've wasted no time diving into this one! A formidable, but a most worthy project! I'll be tagging along over here in the Far East again! Two nylon stringers in a row...Torrefied, I presume?
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leonardmccoy
Posted 2018-04-02 6:47 AM (#541992 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Katmandu
Now this looks like a project. That the neck was previously repaired in such a hack way is very unfortunate.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-04-02 8:17 AM (#541993 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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I was at Dan's on Saturday to look at Patch's parlor guitar and asked to see the Chapin guitar. Must have motivated him

Interesting that Jen was playing it even after the top split.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-02 8:45 AM (#541995 - in reply to #541993)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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moody, p.i. - 2018-04-02 6:17 AM

Interesting that Jen was playing it even after the top split.


It looks to me like the top split because of the shrinkage of the polyester finish. The top from your 1113 looked just like this.

That's actually the main reason for the re-top. Even if the cracks were glued and filled, they would never be level and the top would just continue to split in other spots as the polyester continues to shrink.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-02 8:46 AM (#541996 - in reply to #541988)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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arumako - 2018-04-02 1:56 AM

Torrefied, I presume?


Yes. Torrefied Sitka spruce top with torrefied Adi spruce Ovation double fan braces.
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alpep
Posted 2018-04-02 9:52 AM (#541997 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: NJ
wow
that is an incredible story
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-02 11:18 AM (#542001 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: What week?
FINALLY.. we learn about the next project you teased us with. Well worth the wait for me in that when I auctioned off my old vinyl (over 1,500 in one fell swoop), the Chapin collection is one of the very few I kept.

I once heard Chapin tell in a radio interview that he wrote Taxi during the week he was waiting for his initial taxi driving license to be processed, and was inspired after he heard that an old girlfriend had married a wealthy businessman. Before the license arrived, he received an entertainment offer and never did drive a cab.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-02 2:11 PM (#542004 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Thanks for the info about the inspiration behind Taxi, Al.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-04-02 6:27 PM (#542009 - in reply to #542004)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: Indy
My 1613 split exactly like that. Extreme temperature. Got trapped in a blizard between shows... Vail to Copper Mountain. Several hours in the trunk ruined it. MS retopped/bowl for me.
Looking forward to this build.
I have a Chapin story too.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-03 10:03 AM (#542016 - in reply to #542009)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Yep. Until the cold weather back east clears up, Patch's parlor is staying right here in balmy So. Cal.

I'd love to hear your Chapin story.
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jay
Posted 2018-04-03 11:48 AM (#542018 - in reply to #542016)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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What an awesome gesture. 

Harry seemed like a guy that paid more attention to the cause than whether his guitar was baking in the back seat of his car.

Sweet nostalgic project, Dan.  Thanks for raising your hand for this one.

 



Edited by jay 2018-04-03 11:50 AM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-03 1:43 PM (#542024 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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@Jay - >>>Harry seemed like a guy that paid more attention to the cause than whether his guitar was baking in the back seat of his car.<<<

Boy, ain't that the truth. I heard where he once stood in the parking lot rain and greeted cars that were showing up for one of his hunger benefit shows. The guy was a humanitarian's humanitarian.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-04-04 5:52 PM (#543057 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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I was playing a restaurant in Ft. Myers Florida around 1990. I had just done "Taxi" and "Cat's In The Cradle" when a gentleman walked up and thanked me for "keeping his son's music alive"... Harry's father.

He invited me to join him at his table, which I did... only to find myself with Harry's wife Sandy (who co-wrote "Cat's), brother Steve and most of the original Chapin band, including Big John Wallace. They were wonderful to me and invited me to a show the next night to benifit Harry's hunger foundation. They also insisted I come to the after party.

A really special memory.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-04 7:07 PM (#543060 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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>>>A really special memory.<<<

That's a great story and experience. They talk about planets aligning to bring on special occasions.. but I think it's when people align that make for the best ones.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-04 7:26 PM (#543062 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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@Moody - >>>Interesting that Jen was playing it even after the top split.<<<

I would guess that for some people (like Jen) it's often the wear and damage that makes the instrument possess the real mojo. If she had not slipped on the ice, I'm thinking she would have been happy to leave it as it were.. but sometimes there just comes a point. I cannot think of a single person beyond Dan who would be able to perform what is about to be performed, and to do it with the knowledge, skill and respect required to relieve the ill consequences, but still keep the mojo. I'm really looking forward to watching this one come together.. and this will definitely be a special old top for the wall collection. If there's any other chunkage that ends up heading for the trash bin, I would love to have a keepsake fragment of it.

Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-04 7:44 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-07 8:10 PM (#543119 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Time to start the project. First job is to remove the top.

Binding and purfling are removed.



And, just like that, the top is off.



The foil label had become half-unstuck. To prevent any damage (read: creasing) I removed the label for safe-keeping.



I cleaned all the old epoxy off the linings and from between the fret board extension and neck block. It's ready for a new top.



Next, I'll turn my attention to fixing the neck crack.

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-07 11:44 PM (#543128 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: What week?
What's the serial number on this one?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-08 12:36 AM (#543129 - in reply to #543128)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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096744
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-09 12:01 AM (#543145 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: What week?
Okay.. with the assumption of units being produced in perfect serial# sequence relative to the calendar and clock--
This was the first or second guitar born right after lunch on Wednesday, June 22, 1977.
I'm sure everyone was just chomping to know this.. so there.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-09 3:58 AM (#543147 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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I've only been playing classical for a few months. Never thought I would get into them, but I surprised myself and I'm loving every minute of it.. even if it's just an old CC-13. So now I'm already getting so sentimental about this Chapin guitar and restoration that I have been shopping 1613s.. bad GAS. Is this one a stereo model? All the ones I am finding for sale are stereo. Do you know.. were all the 1613s stereo?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-10 9:03 AM (#543180 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Al,

I wanted to check first before replying. The preamp on this guitar is mono with a single knob for volume control.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-10 3:42 PM (#543190 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Thanks, Dan. If I do end up with one, I think I would actually prefer the mono version.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-18 1:37 PM (#543296 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA

Work continues.

Before starting on the new top, I decided to fix the neck and head stock.

First order of business is to fix the neck break. I was originally going to route a slot in the back of the neck/head stock junction. Closer inspection showed this would be unnecessary.

I used the weight of the guitar itself to open up the crack so that the glue could wick deeply.

Then, I flipped the guitar over and used the weight of the guitar to close up the crack while the glue dried.

Here's the results. I'd sanded the finish down to bare wood in this area before starting the repair. This photo shows the wood after drop-filling with CA.

Next job is to start the repair to the broken ear and drop-fill the missing finish on the other ear.

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Mark in Boise
Posted 2018-04-18 2:41 PM (#543300 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Dan, you're a genius. I used to have a desk just like that. Your use of the "breadboard" is much cooler than its intended use--signing documents.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-18 3:14 PM (#543301 - in reply to #543300)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Thanks, Mark.

It does make an awfully nice workbench.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-20 11:11 AM (#543333 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA

I wanted the new top to look as much like the original as possible. Ovation used Western Red Cedar for these guitars.

Most of the torrefied Sitka and Adi spruce tops have, either figuring or dark-ish racing stripes. I didn't want this guitar to have either one. I also wanted the grain pattern to be fairly open so it would look like the cedar when it's done.

Thankfully, RC Tonewoods carries a variety of torrefied spruce. I found a set of torrefied Engelmann spruce on their site that looked like it might fit the bill, so I ordered it.

As it turns out, it's an almost perfect match for the cedar on the old top. Sonically, Engelmann is somewhere between Sitka and Adirondack, so it should work pretty well on this guitar.



Back to the head stock repairs. I'm not sure what species of mahogany Ovation used on their necks, but it's hard to match through conventional sources. When I repaired the broken ear on my 1111, I was unable to find wood that matched the coloring of the original, so I resorted to dyeing the patch.

I remembered that I bought a corporate sales trophy made from an Ovation head stock. I pulled it out to see if I might be able to perform an ear transplant.

When I compared the grain pattern of the two, it was an almost perfect match. Certainly close enough under all but the closest scrutiny.

The two are different in color. I wasn't sure if this was due to the finish is yellowed, discoloring the underlying wood. The only way to find out was to sand off the finish and get down to bare wood.



Once the finish was gone, I wet out the donor wood and it's a perfect match to the original. Woo Hoo!

So, I cut off the donor ear.



And, prepared the recipient by sanding it smooth. Next job is to start shaping the donor ear to fit.

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-04-20 11:38 AM (#543335 - in reply to #543301)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: Indy
Amazing how closely matched the top and ear are. Little old fashioned karma coming down.
Carry on
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2018-04-20 12:21 PM (#543336 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: Boise, Idaho
Dan,
Why didn't you use Western Red Cedar for the top?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-20 12:53 PM (#543337 - in reply to #543336)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Mark,

Because the torrefied spruce will sound better, sooner.

More importantly, it's also less susceptible to changes in humidity which are a bigger problem in NY, where this guitar will ultimately end up.
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2018-04-20 2:43 PM (#543338 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: Boise, Idaho
When I first joined this forum I noticed that cedar was often used on nylon string guitars and I asked why. All I remember of the response was that it sounds better. I guess I'm still looking for objective answers to subjective questions.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-20 3:10 PM (#543340 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Historically, spruce has been used on classical/flamenco guitars for centuries. Using cedar for guitar tops is fairly recent, becoming popular in the 1960s.

Generally speaking, cedar will have a 'warmer' tone, but at the cost of projection (volume) and clarity. (separation of notes)

Spruce will have more projection and clarity, but with a slightly brighter tone. (crispness)

What I've found is that cedar has a lower overhead when it comes to projection. If your attack on the strings is too aggressive, the tone becomes muddy.

More grist for the mill...

Cedar vs Spruce Tops: tonewoods for classical guitar

The Advantages of Spruce Over Cedar

Spruce vs. Cedar top classical guitar comparison - Viktor Fogas lattice concert guitars

Spruce v Cedar vintage Jose Ramirez classical guitars

Compare Brazilian Rosewood Spruce and Cedar Top

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-04-20 5:27 PM (#543341 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Trigger has a spruce top. Sounds just fine to me....
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arumako
Posted 2018-04-20 10:36 PM (#543344 - in reply to #543333)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2018-04-20 1:11 AM

I remembered that I bought a corporate sales trophy made from an Ovation head stock. I pulled it out to see if I might be able to perform an ear transplant.

Hi Dan,
Your skillful ability to source and collect parts for your project is darn near...magical, mystical, prophetic, providential... That corporate trophy is a head stock from a Nakao Elite like this one from my friends NNS778-9;

Nakao HS

Your Spruce sound board is practically a twin! The aging of the cedar has made it identical to spruce - just incredible.

Also, thanks for the links to the spruce/cedar discussions. They seem to support what I've experienced. Recently, repaired a cedar top cutaway nylon that is very warm sounding, but extremely loud. The table is only 2mm thick, but quite strong. The acoustic volume is probably the loudest of all the nylon strings I own. But iin the past, I've found cedar w/nylon strings to get a bit "scraggly" (for lack of a better term) when played hard. As if the clarity of the note gets compromised.

Once again, you're "raising the bar" of the BFLG! Thanks again for sharing your journey with us. This is a real treat for those of us who were influenced by Harry's music and character.

You know, with all the experience you have moulding FRP and the discontinuation of the Adamas line... Hmmm, how does a torrefied Birch fiberglass sandwiched sound board, resonance ringed, wood bowl backed project sound? Sorry, just a strange thought that crossed my mind, LOL!



Edited by arumako 2018-04-20 10:37 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-04-21 10:29 AM (#543348 - in reply to #543341)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA

moody, p.i. - 2018-04-20 3:27 PM

Trigger has a spruce top. Sounds just fine to me....


Speaking of Trigger. I'm not sure how many follow Dan Erlewine's How-To videos, but he has a couple with his cousin, Mark Erlewine of Erlewine Guitars in Austin, Texas performing annual maintenance on Trigger.

Repairing Trigger Part I

Repairing Trigger Part II

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-21 1:47 PM (#543350 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: What week?
How about fabric types of various thickness and weave, poured over with a thin viscosity clear that sets stiff and rigid? Then braced accordingly (whatever that may be). It would take some experimenting to zero in.. but definitely possible. Ever heard of that for a guitar top? I can't say as I recall ever seeing that.. but if I could have one made from the back of my late brother's favorite tropical shirt, the ultimate sound would be secondary to the sentiment of the piece. Whatever.. when my wife gets home I'm sure she'll have me moving furniture or such.. but for now the fabric guitar is my Saturday morning coffee ponder. Happy weekend to all.

Edited by Love O Fair 2018-04-21 1:51 PM
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-04-21 3:50 PM (#543351 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Well, not only furniture moving, but she also got her ashes hauled (the fireplace kind). Anyway, while hauling, I thought more and decided that rolling the clear onto flat and tight fabric in layers would be better than pouring. More control over thickness and texture desire, and perhaps extra or less coats on the back than the front to make adjustments for overall thickness. Okay, back to Saturday.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-05-21 9:34 AM (#543726 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Location: Indy
I'm having withdrawals....
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-05-21 12:31 PM (#543727 - in reply to #543726)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Jonmark Stone - 2018-05-21 7:34 AM

I'm having withdrawals....

Yup. It's painful....
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-05-21 12:44 PM (#543728 - in reply to #543727)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Basically, the headstock I used wasn't thick enough to fix the broken ear.

As a result I've had to hunt down some mahogany that is somewhat close to the color and grain of the original.

Thankfully, I've been able to buy some that will be close. Now that I've got the wood I can get back to work on it.
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arumako
Posted 2018-05-22 9:02 AM (#543733 - in reply to #543728)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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DanSavage - 2018-05-21 2:44 AM

Now that I've got the wood I can get back to work on it.

Meanwhile, here's a video you've all probably seen already, but it features his 1613-4 quite prominently. Hope you don't mind my sharing this on your thread while we all wait with bated breath, Dan...

Link: https://youtu.be/_1TUgWGuKM8



Edited by arumako 2018-05-22 9:08 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-05-22 12:38 PM (#543734 - in reply to #543733)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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arumako - 2018-05-22 7:02 AM

DanSavage - 2018-05-21 2:44 AM

Now that I've got the wood I can get back to work on it.

Meanwhile, here's a video you've all probably seen already, but it features his 1613-4 quite prominently. Hope you don't mind my sharing this on your thread while we all wait with bated breath, Dan...



Don't mind at all.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-06-25 3:30 PM (#544217 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Anything new?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-26 10:56 AM (#544224 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Yeah. Finally.

Believe it or not, I've spent the last month doing nothing but trying to patch the broken ear on the head stock.

It's not the shaping of the wood. That's easy. No, it's the matching of the grain and color of the wood. That's the hard part.

Here's the final patches. The treble bout also had a ding that needed to be patched.



Back side. The bass side patch.



As I say, I haven't been sitting on my duff this whole time. Each one of these represents an iteration of the bass-side patch and a different attempt to match the color and grain of the head stock, with varying degrees of success.

Some were glued to the head stock and shaped down to match the surrounding wood. I like to use hide glue for these types of patches so that if anything goes wrong, I can simply steam off the patch with no damage at all.

I tried several different methods of coloring the wood to match the head stock. From left to right these are as follows:

1) Original patch - plain shellac. Failed. Wood patch too small.
2) Custom mix wood stain. Failed. Stain obscured end grain.
3) Torrefied. Failed. Wood grain wrong. Torrefaction browned wood.
4) Torrefied. Failed. Wrong species of wood.
5) Torrefiled. Failed. Too dark, too brown.
6 & 7) Failed. Wrong species of wood.

These are the different stains & dyes. The stain works well on the side and back of the patch. The coloration and grain on these parts of the patch have always been easy to match. The front, which everyone sees, has been the difficult part.



Because the stain has pigment in suspension, the open grain of the mahogany sucks the pigment up like a straw ending up being really ugly, like what can be seen below. This is #2 above after I shaped it and stained it. Needless to say, there was no way I could let this guitar go out looking like this. So, it got steamed off and I started experimenting.



Below are the different tests. On the left is the torrefied wood. Upper right is the stained pieces. Middle right and bottom right are the dyed pieces.



As you can see, the stain works great on the side grain of mahogany. Second shot shows the wood wetted out with naptha.

Here's the stained pieces showing end-grain and wetted out with naptha. As you can see, the end-grain is completely obscured and all we see are the pores of the wood. Ugh!



Next are the #3 above. This is next to the piece of wood it came from that has not been torrefied. The torrefaction process does darken the wood and in a fairly controlled fashion. Basically, I heated up the convection oven to 300 degrees and put the wood in for about an hour or so. Second photo shows both wetted out.

This piece was actually pretty close, but the wood grain was wrong and slightly too brown.

Here's #4 with the block of wood it came from. As you can see, the torrefied is darker and the grain has been enhanced. But, it's the wrong species of mahogany and didn't match.

Next are the experiments in dying. Unlike stain which has the pigment in suspension, dyes have the color in solution. This means that the color soaks equally into open pored wood like mahogany.

The piece on the left received two different colors -- brown mahogany and red mahogany. The two upper pieces received just red mahogany. The pieces on the bottom right received a custom mix of brown and red mahogany.



Here's the pics of the various pieces wetted out with naptha.

Next up, time to get started on the top. Finally!





Edited by DanSavage 2018-06-26 10:58 AM
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-06-26 11:04 AM (#544225 - in reply to #544224)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Wow. Harry would be proud.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-06-26 1:07 PM (#544227 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Love watching this stuff! Not as much as when it was my guitar, but love it none the less.....
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-06-26 2:09 PM (#544228 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Location: What week?
Why is the term "mad scientist" going through my mind? Like a room off in the corner, with family members huddled outside the locked door, "What could he be doing in there?"... hearing strange sounds inside, sliding meals under the door hoping he will eat... relieved when finding an occasional empty plate has been slid back out.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-26 4:08 PM (#544229 - in reply to #544228)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Trust me, Al. Doing the 'mad scientist' thing isn't my idea of fun.

In fact, it's going to be a real long time, if ever, before I do another broken ear repair.

If the broken piece is available, that's one thing because it can be simply glued back into place.

But, making it from scratch? Nuh-uh... Nope. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-06-26 4:11 PM (#544230 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
When you stop and think about it, fixing the headstock is the really difficult part of this project. Retopping it is something Dan has done a number of times on various Ovations (twice for me).;..
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d'ovation
Posted 2018-06-26 4:52 PM (#544231 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 782

Location: Canada
Very interesting. So your approach is a minimum patch, possibly with objective to maintain as much of the original as possible. An alternative could also be to take some more of the treble side off to create a pleasing looking more symmetrical and unique outcome if the "blending" does not work well. Sometimes, if hiding a repair does not work well, emphasizing it may be a better approach.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-06-26 5:12 PM (#544232 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Fascinating, and apparently much more difficult than I thought.

Good Work, Dan.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-06-26 7:14 PM (#544235 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
Ken.. I hope you're paying attention to this. You and Vincent have some real work ahead of you!







Edited by Love O Fair 2018-06-26 7:15 PM
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arumako
Posted 2018-06-26 8:31 PM (#544238 - in reply to #544229)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2018-06-26 6:08 AM

Trust me, Al. Doing the 'mad scientist' thing isn't my idea of fun.

Hey Dan! I really appreciate the love and sheer effort you're putting into this. A testament to the true Luthier's Spirit in you! If the Chapin family are viewing this thread at all it's gotta be "a tear jerker" thread if there ever was one! Sheesh, even I'm getting a little emotional on this one...

I'm afraid Vincent won't get this thorough a treatment, Al. I'll do my best to find a match, but good mahogany is hard to come by over here. Once I reach Dan's "stage 1" proficiency, I'm going to lightly do a tan/brown sunburst, and call it good. That's what I'm doing for my CS249-4Y. It ain't perfect, but it'll be good enough to resurrect the original value of the guitar.

As always, thanks for sharing your journey immaculately Dan!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-27 11:36 AM (#544245 - in reply to #544230)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2018-06-26 2:11 PM

When you stop and think about it, fixing the headstock is the really difficult part of this project. Retopping it is something Dan has done a number of times on various Ovations (twice for me).;..


It is. I always start with the most difficult task, then work toward the easiest.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-27 11:43 AM (#544246 - in reply to #544231)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
d'ovation - 2018-06-26 2:52 PM

Very interesting. So your approach is a minimum patch, possibly with objective to maintain as much of the original as possible. An alternative could also be to take some more of the treble side off to create a pleasing looking more symmetrical and unique outcome if the "blending" does not work well. Sometimes, if hiding a repair does not work well, emphasizing it may be a better approach.


Thanks.

Yes, I always attempt to preserve as much of the original as possible.

I could have done that, but not only was the ear broken off, but a lot of material from the back of the head stock was taken with it. It was sort of like a deep gouge.

I understand what you mean. When repairing guitars, some luthiers do not attempt to visually hide the repair. Instead, they strive to make it so you can't feel the repair.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-27 11:45 AM (#544247 - in reply to #544232)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Old Man Arthur - 2018-06-26 3:12 PM

Fascinating, and apparently much more difficult than I thought.

Good Work, Dan.


Thanks, Art.

The actual woodworking needed to shape the patch is pretty straightforward and not very difficult at all.

I spent as much time as I did because I wanted to get as close of a match to the surrounding wood as I could.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-06-27 1:04 PM (#544248 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Dan, are you going to do any work on the preamp, ie, clean connections, make sure there are no hisses and pops, etc? I don't know if Ms. Chapin realizes it, but she's going to get a like new guitar with all of her father's mojo intact.....
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alpep
Posted 2018-06-27 9:35 PM (#544253 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 10402

Location: NJ
I was at good will and bought a program from a harry chapin show... I opened it and it was signed!!!!!!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-06-28 10:41 AM (#544255 - in reply to #544253)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Paul,
I usually don't do anything to the preamps other than to re-install and make sure it works.

Yes, that's the idea. A brand-new 40-year old guitar.

Al,
Very cool. I hope you bought it on the spot. I know I would have.
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alpep
Posted 2018-06-28 11:38 AM (#544256 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Location: NJ
I did
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-01 6:55 PM (#544284 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Moving right along...

First job of the top is to joint it. I took the top to the sander on Friday so that I could work on it all weekend.



Top is thickness sanded, fitted to the top, outline cut and bridge fitted.



Sound hole is cut.



Rosette hasn't yet been fitted to the neck yet. This is just to confirm the rosette will be able to be mounted in the right spot.



Saddle/pick-up is fitted. Interestingly, this is a custom saddle. Not only do the individual saddle pieces look like bone, but the compensation has been changed from the stock saddle. There are other areas of the guitar that have been customized. More on that later.



Top is ready for braces.



Braces cut, shaped and ready to be glued. If you look closely at the original top you can see slight discoloration between the 1st and 2nd cross braces and again below the 4th braces and the lower bout of the guitar.



At some point in this guitar's life, someone, with some skills I might add, carefully used a small surface grinder/sander to remove wood from the underside of the top. This was not done at the factory because the epoxy used to glue the rosette has been ground away to the same level as the surrounding wood. Also, the area where the top has been removed is a lighter color. This happens whenever wood is removed. As the wood oxidizes, it gets darker.

If you compare the color of the top around the braces to the wood that has been ground away then to the area where I split the wood removing the top, you can see that it goes from dark to light. The wood most freshly exposed to the air is always the lightest. The wood exposed to the air the longest will always be the darkest.

I thought about it and the only reason I can come up with why someone would grind away the inside of the top is to thin it in order to free it up and make it sound better.

One of the things I've noticed about nylon string Ovation guitars is that they tend to sound stiff. I don't think it's the brace pattern because variations of the double-fan has been used successfully on many classical guitars.

So, to address this, this top is .097" thick with no taper. The braces will not be tucked. And, I've tapered the ends of the cross-braces to free up the top even more. I'm looking forward to how this sounds.

Braces being glued.



As I was saying the tops on Ovations are a little on the thick side. I recall reading a memo from Charlie on the Ovation Tribute site asking that the builders be careful to maintain this top thickness. This one must have been one of those in question. The top tapers from .140" down to .120". Unfortunately, there was a ripple-effect of the top being too thick. In this case, the gap between the underside of the fretboard and the top of the neck block/lining is also about .140" thick. (Waah!)

With the thinner top and wider gap I had no choice but to use filler pieces that were about 1/16" (.063") thick. Here they are glued to the lining. I thought about what different materials to use. In the end I decided that torrefied Adi spruce would be the best to transmit the vibrations to the body.



Filler pieces sanded to shape.



And, the top is being glued to the body.



One of the common problems with Ovation guitars of this vintage is they almost always need a neck-reset. This one is no different. Ovation guitars of this vintage have necks that are glued into the mahogany neck block. So, there are really only two ways to do a neck reset. The first is to remove the neck from the block, then perform a conventional neck reset. The other way is to use a heat source to soften the epoxy of the bowl and warp it so the neck angle is correct.

I decided to take a different tack on this guitar. The reason why Ovation guitar bowls can stay rigid with no internal braces is because once the top is joined to it, they form a monocoque structure. A common monocoque structure everyone is familiar with is an egg.

Anyone who's removed a top from an Ovation has noticed how easy it is to flex the bowl. So, it occurred to me that instead of doing a conventional neck reset or doing a hot bowl bend, I could simply warp the bowl so the neck takes a new angle, then glue the top down to the bowl and voila! Instant neck reset. Will it work? I'll find out tomorrow.

So, let me explain what you're seeing in the photo. First, I clamped the neck and adjusted the angle so that I could flex the bowl down and it would rest on the adjustable feet to the correct height. Then, I put a couple of sand bags in the bowl to hold it down against the feet. Then, I used luthier rubber bands to clamp my original bowl-bend jig to hold the top flat and to squeeze the glue joint all the way round the bowl.

We'll see how it turned out tomorrow.

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-07-01 8:30 PM (#544285 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Love this stuff ! Can't do any myself, but I love it!

Wonder if Jen Chapin is watching this process?


Edited by moody, p.i. 2018-07-01 8:32 PM
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arumako
Posted 2018-07-01 9:30 PM (#544286 - in reply to #544284)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2018-07-01 8:55 AM
I decided to take a different tack on this guitar. The reason why Ovation guitar bowls can stay rigid with no internal braces is because once the top is joined to it, they form a monocoque structure. A common monocoque structure everyone is familiar with is an egg.

Anyone who's removed a top from an Ovation has noticed how easy it is to flex the bowl. So, it occurred to me that instead of doing a conventional neck reset or doing a hot bowl bend, I could simply warp the bowl so the neck takes a new angle, then glue the top down to the bowl and voila! Instant neck reset. Will it work? I'll find out tomorrow.

Incredible work Dan. Lots of interesting detail and innovative thinking! Hope it's okay to ask a question..., but when you flex the bowl to do the neck reset, the "flatness" of the bowl will be compromised in different areas... like curling around the outer sides where the bowl is widest. I suspect the the clamping pressure will keep it all together, but once the adhesives have dried wouldn't there be some stress to the top from the bowl trying to get back into shape?

Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-02 1:00 AM (#544288 - in reply to #544286)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2018-07-01 7:30 PM

Incredible work Dan. Lots of interesting detail and innovative thinking! Hope it's okay to ask a question..., but when you flex the bowl to do the neck reset, the "flatness" of the bowl will be compromised in different areas... like curling around the outer sides where the bowl is widest. I suspect the the clamping pressure will keep it all together, but once the adhesives have dried wouldn't there be some stress to the top from the bowl trying to get back into shape?

Really interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks, Ken.

In theory, yes, the 'flatness' is compromised. In practice, the compromise is so small as to be insignificant.

To warp the bowl only required about 15 lbs. of weight inside the bowl, which isn't really a lot. Jigging the guitar in this fashion to re-align the neck elongated the bowl. Once the guitar is removed from the jig, the loads on the top from the bowl trying to assume its former shape will be in compression. Again, we're only talking about a few pounds. There is a small amount of shear load up near the neck, but it's pretty small.

So, the answer to your question is, yes. The bowl will try assume it's previous shape. But, when you spread the load across the entire lining surrounding the bowl, the stress, or load, should be well withing the top's abilitiy to manage it. In theory.

We'll find out tomorrow once I take the guitar out of the jig.

Dan

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-02 7:49 AM (#544289 - in reply to #544288)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
Fascinating... doing my best Spock imitation.
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d'ovation
Posted 2018-07-02 11:11 AM (#544290 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 782

Location: Canada
Wow this treatise is beyond my physics and engineering comprehension but I am awaiting the outcome. May the forces be with you.
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jay
Posted 2018-07-02 9:44 PM (#544293 - in reply to #544288)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1235

Location: Texas

Dan...it is fascinating how with every project, some new aspect crops up. Totally speaks to your ability to adjust, on the go, to different situations that present themselves. I mean...it is the same shaped bowl, with a neck and a top. You would think it would be cookie cutter! But nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. 

So thanks again for taking the time to show and walk us through your journey of rebuilding Harrys guitar. 

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-07-02 11:51 PM (#544295 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
@Dan - >>> the stress, or load, should be well withing the top's abilitiy to manage it. In theory.<<<

Assuming I have followed correctly, if the bowl's own hysteresis plans don't want to behave as your theory is hoping after all is set, how would you know for sure? There doesn't seem to be a way to measure it. So.. could the bowl then be oh-so-lightly warmed and cooled in wider zones immediately adjacent to the stress point to equalize itself slightly outward and away? A little insurance. I mean, to the point to cause less distortion than is detectable to the eye or feel of course, though still enough to possibly disburse a small bit of the pressure (pound or two) that may, over time, be enough to prompt a separation or buckle. Again.. assuming that I have followed correctly. I admit, there WAS a reason they fired me from NASA after only a few minutes.

Edited by Love O Fair 2018-07-03 12:09 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-03 8:33 AM (#544296 - in reply to #544295)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks everyone.

I pulled the guitar out of the jig and the warp worked better than I had hoped it would.

I expected some spring-back, but there was absolutely none. The neck angle is exactly the same out of the jig as it was when the guitar was clamped down.

Next job is to route the channels for the purfling and binding. I'll be starting that job this afternoon.

Jay,
Yes, it's the same shape as other Ovations. The distorting I did to the bowl actually helped bring the guitar back to factory specs.

Al,
The bowl is pretty easy to warp when the top is off. When I re-topped Jay's guitar I heated up the bowl to soften the epoxy, then warped it and let it cool so the epoxy could take a new set. It needs to be more than oh-so-lightly warmed, though. It has to be heated up evenly across the upper bout to almost 300 degrees. It took several heating/cooling cycles to accomplish.

In contrast this was much, much easier. All I did was to distort the bowl so the neck angle was correct, then glue and clamp the top into place, then Voila! Instant neck reset.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-07-03 12:35 PM (#544298 - in reply to #544296)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 601

Location: Muenster/Germany
Wow, that was a courageous act. I can understand that the longitudian angle of the neck is (relatively) easy to manage but I would have been afraid to torque the neck in the rectangular direction to this (Do you know what I mean, I don´t know how to explain that in english). I think the perfect crabbing was quite complicated. Chapeau! And again all this is a new exciting serial. Thankfully none of my old Ovations is in need of a neckreset at the moment. With the bolt-on necks it is soo easy.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-07-03 1:04 PM (#544299 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
@Dan - >>>almost 300 degrees<<<

Holy moley. "Neck & Bowl" seem to have more in common with "Body & Fender" than I thought. Anyway, congratulations on the success of your method. Always a pleasure to learn from you!

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-03 1:47 PM (#544300 - in reply to #544298)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DetlefMichel - 2018-07-03 10:35 AM

Wow, that was a courageous act. I can understand that the longitudian angle of the neck is (relatively) easy to manage but I would have been afraid to torque the neck in the rectangular direction to this (Do you know what I mean, I don´t know how to explain that in english). I think the perfect crabbing was quite complicated. Chapeau! And again all this is a new exciting serial. Thankfully none of my old Ovations is in need of a neck reset at the moment. With the bolt-on necks it is soo easy.


Yes, I understand what you mean. One of my concerns was twisting the body relative to the neck. So, I was careful to measure them to make sure the neck and body remained square to each other with no twisting.

When locating the top and later on, the bridge, I always align these to the neck, itself. To do this, I lay a straight edge along each side of the neck and mark the positions at the bottom of the bowl. I measure the distance between the two marks and I use this is the center line of the guitar. The center line of the top is aligned here as well as the center of the bridge.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-03 1:50 PM (#544301 - in reply to #544299)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2018-07-03 11:04 AM

@Dan - >>>almost 300 degrees<<<

Holy moley. "Neck & Bowl" seem to have more in common with "Body & Fender" than I thought. Anyway, congratulations on the success of your method. Always a pleasure to learn from you!



Yeah, that temperature seems a little high.

I went back to Jay's guitar thread. It was only 210° F to 230° F.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-07-03 2:57 PM (#544302 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
I suspect that it's only going to be a few more weeks before I get to go to Dan's and try this sucker out!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-03 2:58 PM (#544303 - in reply to #544302)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Yep. I'm working to have it done by the end of the month.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-04 7:40 AM (#544313 - in reply to #544303)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1420

Location: Indy

DanSavage -Saddle/pick-up is fitted. Interestingly, this is a custom saddle. Not only do the individual saddle pieces look like bone, but the compensation has been changed from the stock saddle

The OPP on my late 70`s classic looks just like that. The different saddle material and compensation. 

Great work Dan.



Edited by Jonmark Stone 2018-07-04 7:43 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-07 6:34 PM (#544367 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

That's interesting, Jonmark.

Here's a fun pic of Harry I found with this guitar.



Got the top routed for the purfling & binding.



Purfling and binding being glued. I'll scrape these down tomorrow. After that, it's time to start prepping for finish.

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-08 5:41 PM (#544373 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Location: Lake Forest, CA

The binding/purfling is scraped down. At this point I'm moving onto finishing the head stock. Once that's done, I'll return and finish the top.

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-07-08 6:32 PM (#544375 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



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Location: What week?
That wood is going to finish up so very nice. I can tell already.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-11 9:01 AM (#544419 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Thanks, Al.

Forgot to glue the fretboard extension down to the top.

Here's the first of the clear coats on the top. What surprised me is the widespread very soft pillowing throughout the wood. It's very evocative of the old Ovation tops. The cedar top it's replacing doesn't have this feature, but the color of the new top is a close match for the it.

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-11 9:08 AM (#544421 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Location: Indy
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-07-11 9:53 AM (#544423 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Gonna be an awesome guitar and I'm looking forward to playing it. Gotta go practice The Claw......
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-11 2:11 PM (#544427 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
I really need to get off my butt and work up The Claw. I was at a festival with Bresh last year and he tried to teach it to my Cargo.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-07-11 5:59 PM (#544428 - in reply to #544427)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Jonmark Stone - 2018-07-11 12:11 PM

I really need to get off my butt and work up The Claw. I was at a festival with Bresh last year and he tried to teach it to my Cargo.

Your Cargo?

Working on The Claw is an ongoing project. Some years it sounds better than others. You'll probably do better than me. You're a real live musician. I'm just a strummer of tunes......
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-11 7:48 PM (#544429 - in reply to #544428)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


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Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
My Cargo is the little short scale carbon fiber guitar.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-19 8:59 AM (#544531 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Just a quick update.

I finished spraying the finish on the top. It's really pretty.

I'm spraying the finish on the head stock. The new piece looks like it will blend in pretty good. Not invisible, but it doesn't stand out, which is what I wanted. I'll post a couple of pics when I'm done spraying it.

Once I'm done spraying the head stock I need to let the paint on it and the top harden for a week before I polish it.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-07-19 9:00 AM
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arumako
Posted 2018-07-19 12:34 PM (#544534 - in reply to #544531)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2018-07-18 10:59 PM

Once I'm done spraying the head stock I need to let the paint on it and the top harden for a week before I polish it.

Looks like things are progressing right on schedule! Are you using the same poly finish as my 1612?
Thanks for keeping us posted! Can't wait to see and hear the finished project!

Edited by arumako 2018-07-19 12:36 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-20 9:09 AM (#544545 - in reply to #544534)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Hi Ken,

Yes, the same finish as what's on your 1612.

Dan
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Patch
Posted 2018-07-20 9:53 AM (#544546 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4158

Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent

Now don't ofrget the final detail Dan. I need pictures when it's all done. It wouldn't be an OFC Calendar without at least one BFLG project in it.

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-20 1:33 PM (#544549 - in reply to #544546)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Will do, Patch.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-24 11:10 PM (#544584 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I finished spraying the head stock yesterday. It turned out pretty good.

Here's a few pics. The repair isn't invisible, but it doesn't stand out. First set of pics is without the flash. Second set, with the flash. (don't mind the lumpy finish).

All in all, I'm very happy with the repair.










Edited by DanSavage 2018-07-24 11:11 PM
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2018-07-24 11:38 PM (#544585 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 506

Location: moline,illinois
You have to look real close to see it and you did a great job getting the grain to match,excellent work IMHO

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DarenSavage
Posted 2018-07-25 6:19 AM (#544586 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 119

Wow! That's all I can say is Wow! Amazing repair.
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arumako
Posted 2018-07-25 9:17 AM (#544588 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan
That's some stunning work Dan! Amazing!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-07-25 10:23 AM (#544589 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
Dan.. if Harry were able to witness this project after what he (or any seasoned player) would expect the wear and tear to be after the 41 years this guitar has seen, he would marvel at your work with utter praise just like the rest of us are doing. Jen is very fortunate to have found you, as we are fortunate to have you here as our mentor in wizardry.




Edited by Love O Fair 2018-07-25 10:24 AM
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Mark in Boise
Posted 2018-07-25 10:46 AM (#544590 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12658

Location: Boise, Idaho
I looked at the pictures first and couldn't remember what I was looking for. I had to go back a few posts to remember that you repaired the headstock. You're like a good body shop. You have to tell us what to look for in order for us to see the repair.
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jay
Posted 2018-07-25 11:11 AM (#544591 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1235

Location: Texas
I agree with Mark. Amazing repair Dan. Well worth the time and more time...lol.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-25 12:03 PM (#544592 - in reply to #544591)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, everyone.

I'll be starting the cut and polish process tomorrow night.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-07-25 11:49 PM (#544608 - in reply to #544592)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
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Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
Beautiful.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-29 3:39 PM (#544663 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got the head stock, neck and top polished.

I'm gluing the bridge to the top.

Once it's dry tomorrow I'll install the hardware, electronics & tuners.

At that point it's time to make a new nut, then string it up and hear how it sounds.

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arumako
Posted 2018-07-29 4:09 PM (#544664 - in reply to #544663)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
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Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2018-07-29 5:39 AM

I got the head stock, neck and top polished.

Woh...looking really sweet Dan! When you say "polished" are you talking wet sanding, polishing with compound, then buffing? Since it's a poly-finish I suspect the process would be relatively simple, but one never knows what you have up your sleeve...

Looking forward to following this to the finish!

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-29 4:24 PM (#544665 - in reply to #544664)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Hi Ken,

Thanks!

Yes, wet sanding starting with 600-grit, then working up to 1500-grit, and finally polishing with Macguire's #9.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-07-29 4:25 PM
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-07-30 5:40 AM (#544668 - in reply to #544584)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 601

Location: Muenster/Germany
The "repaired" headstock looks better than most un-repaired I´ve seen so far. That´s magic.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-07-30 10:50 AM (#544674 - in reply to #544668)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Detlef.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-07-30 11:08 AM (#544675 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
Let me know when to bring over my 1113 DS for a sound comparison. Maybe Thursday evening when I'm done with band practice at church?

Edited by moody, p.i. 2018-07-30 11:10 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-01 2:58 AM (#544702 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Hi Paul,

Thursday night sounds okay. (I wanted to make sure the guitar was in a playable condition before I replied -- it is.)

I got the hardware and electronics installed and strung it up.

To sum it up, I love how this guitar sounds.

It's got perfect balance between bass and treble and the intonation on all six strings is perfect.

I plugged it into my practice amp and it's very loud.

When I was installing the battery holder I got a laugh from the label. (What if I want distorted tone?!)

d

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DetlefMichel
Posted 2018-08-01 9:29 AM (#544705 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 601

Location: Muenster/Germany
Chapeau!
A 1613 once was the first Ovation guitar I had in hand and I still find that it is one of the best nylonstring-guitars ever. And it was the basis for my Ovationmania.
BTW I used the neck-trick mentioned above to cure a small headstock crack on one of my old 1658, worked perfectly, thank you Dan for your practical tutorials.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-01 12:57 PM (#544707 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Detlef.

I'll post proper beauty shots tonight.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-08-01 6:27 PM (#544709 - in reply to #544707)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
Such a beautiful job, Dan.
Reborn.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-02 8:29 AM (#544714 - in reply to #544663)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Jonmark.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-02 10:03 PM (#544720 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10428

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Nice.
Waiting for the video.
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arumako
Posted 2018-08-02 10:32 PM (#544722 - in reply to #544720)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Old Man Arthur - 2018-08-02 12:03 PM

Nice.
Waiting for the video.

+1
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-08-02 11:12 PM (#544723 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
The site Dan uses to host his photos has been down all day, but I suspect that pics will come up soon. In the meantime, I went over to Dan's this evening, bringing my retopped 1113 for comparison purposes, and played the Chapin.

First of all, it is beautiful. Dan's work just keeps getting better and better. And as stunning as the guitar is to look at and hold, it's even better to play. The sound is wonderful up and down the neck and the neck is perfect. I was blown away and a little scared to take my 1113 out of the case for fear that it wouldn't sound as good.

And yet it did. Maybe just a bit better as it has 2 years of playing on it, but the two nylon strings sounded remarkably similar. Both had torrified tops and braces. Both had tapered tops. But the interesting part is that mine has addirondack spruce and the Chapin has engleman spruce. Dan picked that top because it looked so much like the cedar top that had been on the guitar. Both guitars looked incredibly similar.

I suspect that Jen Chapin is going to be very very pleased with the results. As Jonmark said, the guitar is "reborn". It is a brand new mid 70's Ovation classical 1613. And it is stunning.

Well done Dan. Again......

Edited by moody, p.i. 2018-08-02 11:13 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 2:12 AM (#544724 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Hi Paul!

Yes, I agree with your assessment of the two guitars. The only thing your 1113 has over Jen's 1613 is two years of playing. They both sound pretty spectacular.

Here are the torrefied twins. Paul's 1113 is on the left and Jen's 1613 is on the right.



Here's the video I shot today of you plying Jen's guitar.

(Psul playing Jen;s guitar youtube.com link)



Edited by DanSavage 2018-08-03 2:16 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 2:23 AM (#544725 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

IOW, the guitar is all done. Time to let the pics speak for themselves.

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arumako
Posted 2018-08-03 7:18 AM (#544727 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan
WOW! Congratulations on the completion of another spectacular project Dan! Thanks for posting the video too! Thanks also to moody, p.i. for the players review! A Chapin family heirloom Savagely salvaged!

Edited by arumako 2018-08-03 7:20 AM
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-08-03 8:42 AM (#544730 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
By the way, regarding the headstock repair, if you weren't looking for it, you'd never see it. It's that good.
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-08-03 9:23 AM (#544731 - in reply to #544730)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1420

Location: Indy
Standing Ovation, Dan.
Keep me in the queue.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 9:51 AM (#544732 - in reply to #544727)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2018-08-03 5:18 AM

WOW! Congratulations on the completion of another spectacular project Dan! Thanks for posting the video too! Thanks also to moody, p.i. for the players review! A Chapin family heirloom Savagely salvaged!


Ha ha! Ken, you crack me up. You have a way with words.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-08-03 9:52 AM
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DarenSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 2:45 PM (#544735 - in reply to #544723)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 119

moody, p.i. - 2018-08-02 11:12 PM

...I went over to Dan's this evening, bringing my retopped 1113 for comparison purposes, and played the Chapin.

Ha ha! This guitar will be forever known around here as "The Chapin".

Beautiful guitar. I can say I saw it when. It's probably a good thing the bridges are different. We wouldn't want moody to try and pull the ol' switcheroo! 

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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 3:08 PM (#544737 - in reply to #544735)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Yeah, I think you're right about the moniker, Daren.

He and I joked about that on Thursday night.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-08-03 4:15 PM (#544740 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
Dan comes from another planet. It's called Luthieron. Its inhabitants are known universe-wide for constructing amazing stuff. I was there when he landed. Saw the whole thing. Don't let him fool you. His mission here is just to tease us. I mean, it's only obvious that work like The Chapin is out of this world, right? There's your proof right there. Sorry to blow your cover, Dan, but sometimes a phenomenon needs to be explained or the masses will riot.
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DarenSavage
Posted 2018-08-03 6:27 PM (#544747 - in reply to #544546)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 119

Patch - 2018-07-20 9:53 AM

It wouldn't be an OFC Calendar without at least one BFLG project in it.

Somehow I missed this comment, but it reminds me of a funny story about this year's calendar.

I took my calendar to work and as a joke I asked my boss if he wanted to see Miss July (She's very curvy!).

One of the ladies walked out of her office, and overheard my question. He gave me a look that screamed, "I can't believe you're saying this here."

So I showed her the photo of my Custom Ultra first. She got the joke and said, "Oh, it's a guitar!" After I showed him, we all had a good laugh about it.



Edited by DarenSavage 2018-08-03 6:29 PM
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-03 7:06 PM (#544750 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10428

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
Great Work Dan.

I just saved all those photos in an album on my computer so that I can share them with folks who already think that I am nuts about all these Ovations.
But this is just a piece of History.
So Kewel to see this.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-04 9:21 AM (#544760 - in reply to #544747)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2018-08-03 4:27 PM

Somehow I missed this comment, but it reminds me of a funny story about this year's calendar.

I took my calendar to work and as a joke I asked my boss if he wanted to see Miss July (She's very curvy!).

One of the ladies walked out of her office, and overheard my question. He gave me a look that screamed, "I can't believe you're saying this here."

So I showed her the photo of my Custom Ultra first. She got the joke and said, "Oh, it's a guitar!" After I showed him, we all had a good laugh about it.


That's funny. I do the same thing at work, talking about Miss July, Miss August, etc.

Edited by DanSavage 2018-08-04 9:22 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-04 9:22 AM (#544761 - in reply to #544750)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Old Man Arthur - 2018-08-03 5:06 PM

Great Work Dan.

I just saved all those photos in an album on my computer so that I can share them with folks who already think that I am nuts about all these Ovations.
But this is just a piece of History.
So Kewel to see this.


Thanks, Art.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-08-04 5:14 PM (#544766 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10428

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
You also need to bring a camera when you return the guitar to Jen.
So there will be a video of the "reunion".
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-04 8:00 PM (#544769 - in reply to #544766)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Considering she lives in Brooklyn, NY and I live in Lake Forest, CA, I don't think I'm going to be there for the reunion.

But, I will ask her for video of her playing it. Kewl?
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seesquare
Posted 2018-08-06 10:23 AM (#544784 - in reply to #544769)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3165

Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire
Absitively. Might contribute to harmony in the cosmos, too. Excellent work, Dan. Your karmha account is in-the-black.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-08 8:55 AM (#544824 - in reply to #544784)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jen got the guitar yesterday. She's pretty thrilled, but now she's got a predicament.

Does she play the Martin or the Ovation.

I like those kinds of predicaments. LOL!
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-08 9:01 AM (#544825 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I also wanted to share with everyone some great news from Jen.

She and her band, the Jen Chapin Trio, are recording a new album. For more information, please visit: https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/jenchapintrio.

And, she and her band will be in a live stream on August 14, 8pm EST. See: https://www.concertwindow.com/12641-jen-chapin.

 

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moody, p.i.
Posted 2018-08-08 9:51 AM (#544826 - in reply to #544824)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15325

Location: SoCal
DanSavage - 2018-08-08 6:55 AM

Jen got the guitar yesterday. She's pretty thrilled, but now she's got a predicament.

Does she play the Martin or the Ovation.

I like those kinds of predicaments. LOL!

What model Martin?
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-08 11:16 AM (#544828 - in reply to #544826)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA

moody, p.i. - 2018-08-08 7:51 AM

What model Martin?

It looks like a D-18 to me, but then I don't know that much about Martin guitars.

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Eynowd
Posted 2018-08-08 5:15 PM (#544832 - in reply to #544824)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
July 2014
Posts: 153

Location: Canberra, Australia
DanSavage - 2018-08-09 12:55 AM

Jen got the guitar yesterday. She's pretty thrilled, but now she's got a predicament.

Does she play the Martin or the Ovation.

I like those kinds of predicaments. LOL!


It's a shame you couldn't have been there in person to watch her reaction. I reckon that would have been priceless.

Fantastic job on the restore, Dan. I'm sure she'll love it for years to come.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-08 9:30 PM (#544842 - in reply to #544832)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Geoff
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-12 11:20 AM (#544873 - in reply to #544842)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jen posted a video to facebook of her playing the guitar.

https://www.facebook.com/jen.chapin.5/videos/1905112579552597/
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kentrookie
Posted 2018-08-12 2:26 PM (#544875 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...


Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 214

Location: Seattle
Well done Mr Savage...another example of the an human connection through music.

We live a time where these connections can be passed on, amplified, and documented for all.

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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-08-12 7:02 PM (#544879 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 1178

Location: What week?
@kentrookie

+1
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arumako
Posted 2018-08-12 11:53 PM (#544882 - in reply to #544873)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2018-08-12 1:20 AM

Jen posted a video to facebook of her playing the guitar.

https://www.facebook.com/jen.chapin.5/videos/1905112579552597/


Thanks for sharing Dan, and a very hearty congratulations to ya! Jen just upgraded your status to "Master Luthier"! A title to which I wholeheartedly agree (due to 1612 ownership!). Thanks for sharing your journey, and for posting highly educational BFLG threads! Can't wait for your next project! Next time I'm in California (assuming I'm not intruding and assuming we both have time) let me buy you a drink!

Just a job very well done!

P.S. Wasn't expecting such a jazzy expression from Harry Chapin's daughter. Really pleasantly surprised. She seems so down to earth just like her Dad!



Edited by arumako 2018-08-13 12:00 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-14 9:55 AM (#544892 - in reply to #544882)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks everyone.

Ken,

Yes, next time you're in CA, let's get together for a drink and a couple of songs.

Dan
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-14 9:57 AM (#544893 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: RE: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jen sent me a note. She joined the OFC but her posting permissions haven't been enabled yet so she aske me to post this on her behalf:


Thanks to all of your for your kind wishes for the restoration of my
dad's guitar. This has been somewhat overwhelming and I'm at a loss to
adequately express my gratitude to Dan, Steve and the wider community
for all the support for this process and for my having a "brand new
40-year-old guitar." I started to get reacquainted with it at a couple
gigs this past weekend and an accomplished photographer took some posed
photos there that he will forward to me and I will pass on to you all
soon.
My dad was very self-deprecating about his guitar playing but of course
he was excellent and had worked hard to develop his unique
finger-picking style. I've been erratically focused at moving my own
playing forward and use the guitar more as a tool for songwriting and to
lay the barest sketch of my songs down for my virtuosic and sensitive
band to color in. So it's a bit embarrassing for me to have the
privilege of repossessing this wonderful guitar that I don't quite
deserve! But I will continue to try to put it to good use in crafting
thoughtful songs and spreading the word about my dad's legacy as still
vibrantly alive through the work of WhyHunger (http://whyhunger.org), on
whose Board I serve.
With gratitude, Jen
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jay
Posted 2018-08-14 12:55 PM (#544896 - in reply to #541987)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1235

Location: Texas
+1
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-08-15 9:30 AM (#544911 - in reply to #544896)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2061

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I watched Jen's live show last night. She and her trio played some really cool songs. She played her Ovation exclusively.

She has a new CD coming out soon. She's going into the studio next week. I think I heard her say last night that the songs she was playing were going to be on her new CD.
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arumako
Posted 2018-08-15 9:54 PM (#544917 - in reply to #544911)
Subject: Re: Harry Chapin's 1977 1613-4...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 885

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2018-08-14 11:30 PM

She played her Ovation exclusively.

Glad to hear "the Martin or Ovation" predicament was short-lived! Lol!
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