1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...
DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-29 10:58 AM (#531533)
Subject: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I found this sad guitar on Reverb.com. Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge.


I'll be working on this guitar in tandem with my brother's 1528 Ultra.

This will be getting a torrefied Sitka spruce top and braces. I played this guitar before taking the neck and top off and it sounded pretty good. So, I'll probably be duplicating the K-brace pattern. It's like a simplified A-brace pattern.

From the looks of all the screws, I'd gather this guitar had a problem with a lifting bridge.

Neck is off.



As is the top.

I love the use of the wing-nuts. Hey! In an emergency, you use what you got!

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tpa
Posted 2016-12-29 2:46 PM (#531547 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


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Location: Denmark
DanSavage - 2016-12-28 5:58 PM
... Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge....
This might even be a more optimistic description than an honest seller could have given. Where most other see a show stopper and run away You see an opportunity

I don't really understand the screws, except for clamping while glue cures. I would not expect them to be of value when it comes to string pull and such.

Edited by tpa 2016-12-29 2:53 PM
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leonardmccoy
Posted 2016-12-29 3:39 PM (#531549 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Posts: 250

Location: Katmandu
Brutal, brutal wing-nuts...
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-30 9:51 AM (#531563 - in reply to #531547)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
tpa - 2016-12-29 12:46 PM

DanSavage - 2016-12-28 5:58 PM
... Everything seems to be in good shape except the top and bridge....
This might even be a more optimistic description than an honest seller could have given. Where most other see a show stopper and run away You see an opportunity

I don't really understand the screws, except for clamping while glue cures. I would not expect them to be of value when it comes to string pull and such.


Thanks.

The weight of the screws do provide extra mass which really enhances the bass sustain. :D

Kidding aside, I do like how it sounds, so I'm going to be duplicating the brace pattern, but with a slight modification to the two main outside braces. I'm probably going to taper the cross-section to remove a little mass to improve the response, but keep the stiffness.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2016-12-30 10:36 PM (#531585 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
I think I remember seeing that guitar for sale online and wondering, "Who in their right mind would buy this??" Well, now I know :-)

Come on, Dan. Ya just gotta leave the washers on the bridge.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-31 11:39 AM (#531594 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
No worries there. The bolts, wingnuts and washers are all staying with this top. Besides the holes, someone also shaved down the bridge, making it unusable for anything but storing screw hardware. :-D
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Cavalier
Posted 2017-01-01 2:04 PM (#531620 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


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Posts: 341

Location: undisclosed
Good donor guitar!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-01-10 1:33 PM (#531866 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Cleaned up the lining so the body is ready to have the top joined.

Next job is to start jointing the top and making the braces.

 



Edited by DanSavage 2017-01-10 1:34 PM
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DarenSavage
Posted 2017-01-10 3:15 PM (#531873 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
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Posts: 86

Did you use the heat gun to clean the lining. It looks really clean and white.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-01-10 6:44 PM (#531882 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
No. I tried, but the glue was pretty much heat-proof. Definitely an aerospace-grade epoxy, unlike the 1528. I had to do this one the old-fashioned way and plane and scrape it down to the old glue joint.

There are still some glue-globs that need to be ground down, but for the most part, this bowl is ready for the top.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-01-17 10:32 AM (#532052 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I was able to joint the top in preparation for joining and rough cut the braces.

I'm planning to join the tops for all four guitars at the same time so that I can take them down to the sanders and have them all thickness sanded together.

While each top is drying I'll be cutting out the braces.

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DanSavage
Posted 2017-02-15 6:54 PM (#532790 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Got the top outline rough cut, sound hole cut, bridge alignment pin holes drilled and braces glued.

I'll let this dry until tomorrow afternoon, then pull it out of the gobar deck and start working on the 1778T(orrefied)

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DanSavage
Posted 2017-02-25 12:35 PM (#532949 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA

Top is being glued.

Yes, that's the 1778T next to it.

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DanSavage
Posted 2017-03-05 6:47 PM (#533061 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got to a stopping point because I didn't want to use the bankers box any more to route the binding/purfling channels.

It worked well in a pinch, but truth be told it's kind of a pain because it doesn't really hold the guitar securely.

So, I made a crude copy of a fixture used by the MS that I've seen in numerous factory tour videos. Theirs is a lot slicker as it uses vacuum to hold the bowl into place.

But, mine will work pretty well. It secures the bowl into place which will make working on these guitars a lot easier.



The vise is a drill-press vise clamped to the stack of plywood which is in turn, secured to the 3/4" plywood base.

The risers are adjustable, tilting furniture feet.

Here's the 1612 clamped into the fixture.



For guitars like this one which has the removable neck I'm using a 2x2 that I've installed IKEA furniture clamps. The IKEA cap screws go through the Ovation neck mounting holes to clamp the 2x2 to the bowl.

I originally made this to paint the bowls, but it also works great for this fixture. The 2x2 is clamped into the drill press vise.

The feet are adjusted as necessary so the bowl is evenly supported.

Now, routing the binding/purfling will be a lot easier. It will also make gluing the binding and purfling a lot easier, too.

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BCam
Posted 2017-03-05 9:01 PM (#533064 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
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Posts: 158

Nicely done, creative, simple and inexpensive. Good jigs make for good, accurate work.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-03-06 5:48 PM (#533080 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Bob.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-03-06 7:32 PM (#533083 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
I fully agree. Nice jig. Some of the videos I watch of people working on guitars.. yikes! Knocking them around on a dirty workbench like they're mounting a tire or something. Glad they aren't mine.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-13 8:44 PM (#535147 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Back to work on this one.

I'd routed the purfling/binding grooves when I was working on all four guitars at once. (1117, 1528, this one, 1778(T)orrified). I'm glad I did because it made binding this guitar much easier.

Fitting the center seam of the purfling/binding.



Once the center seam is lined up with the center seam of the top, I use a few strips of tape to 'tack' the purfling/binding all the way up to the top of the body, then trim the excess.

I use an acid brush to spread the glue inside the grooves and between the layers of purfling/binding. I use an Xacto knife (LL) to trim the brush. (LR) The brush comes with long bristles, but the long bristles just drag across the glue instead of pushing it down into the joint where it needs to be. The shorter bristles make it easier to brush/push the glue between the layers. With this job, more glue is better.



Now, I start gluing the purfling and binding starting at the top and working my way to the bottom. I work a few inches at a time. In the pic below, I'm all done with the bass bout and ready to start gluing the treble bout.



Treble bout is done. Now, set the guitar aside for 12 hours to let the glue dry.

Glue is dry. Removed the tape to see the raw binding job.

Purfling/binding is scraped down. At this point, the top is ready for final bridge alignment check in preparation for masking and finishing.



Top is masked and ready for sealer/base coat of polyu.



Meanwhile, back to the neck. Old frets were removed, fret board leveled and new frets installed. I'll let the glue dry until tomorrow afternoon, then trim, dress, level and crown the frets.

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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-05-14 12:25 AM (#535149 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Location: Spin axis of a California map
This is the part where I hope you will do some close up shots and detailed explanation since I still don't quite understand how the frets are trimmed so close, smooth and precisely flush with the edges of the fingerboard without disturbing or damaging the wood.
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-14 1:09 AM (#535151 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Kewl! Coming along nicely Dan. What kind of adhesive are you using for the binding and purfling - ZAP thin CA? I tried some Japanese acrylic binding glue and it just isn't working. The brass strip especially seems to make things tricky for my 1868! You make it look so easy!

By the way, is that wood purfling? Did you use any heat to pre-bend the binding and/or purfling?

Ooh, sorry. Don't mean to pester!

Edited by arumako 2017-05-14 1:14 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-14 4:27 PM (#535160 - in reply to #535149)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Love O Fair - 2017-05-13 10:25 PM

This is the part where I hope you will do some close up shots and detailed explanation since I still don't quite understand how the frets are trimmed so close, smooth and precisely flush with the edges of the fingerboard without disturbing or damaging the wood.


Fretting tutorials are all over the interwebs. Here's one that FlySig did.

A beginners guide to re-fretting your guitar

Basically, you use fret trimmer and a file to get the fret close to the wood, but you have to use them with care so you don't damage the wood.

Dan

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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-14 4:39 PM (#535161 - in reply to #535151)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2017-05-13 11:09 PM

Kewl! Coming along nicely Dan. What kind of adhesive are you using for the binding and purfling - ZAP thin CA? I tried some Japanese acrylic binding glue and it just isn't working. The brass strip especially seems to make things tricky for my 1868! You make it look so easy!

By the way, is that wood purfling? Did you use any heat to pre-bend the binding and/or purfling?

Ooh, sorry. Don't mean to pester!


Not pestering at all.

I use IPS Weld-On 16 Acrylic glue for the BWB and purfling. Duco Cement works, too.

When I bound Daren's 1528, I had to use thin CA because the acrylic glue wouldn't grab onto the vinyl sheathing that carries the abalone. Once I got the BWB and abalone glued down, then I was able to use the acrylic glue to glue in the binding.

Yeah, brass would be a really difficult material to use for purfling. Acrylic glue won't work at all because it can't get a bite on the brass, even if you roughed it up with sandpaper. The problem is that the brass can't absorb the glue and the glue is too brittle. Even CA doesn't work well with brass. The only glue that would work would be something like Hysol.

Even if you do get the brass glued into place, sanding or scraping it down so it's level with the top is going to be a chore.

It's Stewmac BWB purfling. There's actually two strips: one, outer is BWB and the other, the inner, is BWBW. The white in the purfling is maple, the black is fiber, like a thick paper.

The trick with purfling and binding is to decide what pattern you want to use, then route the binding and purfling groove to match. Practice helps, too.

I route the binding groove first, then go back and route the purfling groove. I glue all three at the same time, working a few inches at a time. Nope, didn't pre-bend them at all. They're thin so they bend easy enough.
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-16 8:32 AM (#535202 - in reply to #535161)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-05-14 6:39 AM

Not pestering at all.

I use IPS Weld-On 16 Acrylic glue for the BWB and purfling. Duco Cement works, too.

When I bound Daren's 1528, I had to use thin CA because the acrylic glue wouldn't grab onto the vinyl sheathing that carries the abalone. Once I got the BWB and abalone glued down, then I was able to use the acrylic glue to glue in the binding.

Yeah, brass would be a really difficult material to use for purfling. Acrylic glue won't work at all because it can't get a bite on the brass, even if you roughed it up with sandpaper. The problem is that the brass can't absorb the glue and the glue is too brittle. Even CA doesn't work well with brass. The only glue that would work would be something like Hysol.

Even if you do get the brass glued into place, sanding or scraping it down so it's level with the top is going to be a chore.

It's Stewmac BWB purfling. There's actually two strips: one, outer is BWB and the other, the inner, is BWBW. The white in the purfling is maple, the black is fiber, like a thick paper.

The trick with purfling and binding is to decide what pattern you want to use, then route the binding and purfling groove to match. Practice helps, too.

I route the binding groove first, then go back and route the purfling groove. I glue all three at the same time, working a few inches at a time. Nope, didn't pre-bend them at all. They're thin so they bend easy enough.

Thanks for the helpful and timely info Dan. I'm not real good with design, but I am really liking my 1868 brass/black/white/black/white binding sequence. I'm considering whether I should just measure the area where the existing binding channel is the widest and re-cut the whole binding channel to match, but I'm afraid at some edges I might compromise, sound board/bowl integrity. Have an urgent repair that popped in the other day, and I'm waiting for some stuff to move forward with the 1868, so I'll need to think things through very carefully from here.

In retrospect, I think I should have done my ebonizing of the sound board on my 1868 AFTER installing the binding. That would have made scraping and sanding the binding level to the sound board much easier. I have a nice sheet metal cutter that I tested on the brass binding and it cuts really straight but leaves a slight jagged edge. Hoping that installing it "cut-side-down" with some epoxy will keep it in place. I found a nice Japanese epoxy that furniture makers use when adhering wood and metal. Covering the sound board with masking tape and repeating the sanding and masking process all around the binding as I sand the brass and scrape the binding should keep things relatively in order. Process sequence flaws really make the work much less efficient and harder! Oh well, live and learn.

Of course, "process flaws" are something that do not exist in your projects, and I learn so much from every one of them. The binding on your 1612 is really nice. The simple aesthetics of the Balladeer really lend to a wonderful classic look. She's gonna be magnificent! Looking forward to following this to completion!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-16 11:44 PM (#535212 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
You're welcome.

Yes, you might want to consider making the binding groove as wide as the widest point, then selecting the purfling to match. That is, as long as you won't grind a hole in the top.

WRT the top finish, yep, you live and you learn.

For example, I used to apply shellac, at first, then polyurethane, to the top before gluing it down to the bowl. But, I found it made the finish uneven when I scraped down the binding/purfling. I did this to keep the glue from discoloring the wood. When I found the glue doesn't discolor the torrefied top, I stopped pre-finishing the top and now I glue the bare wood top.

Oh, yes. Process flaws do exist in my projects. I just don't post the pics. LOL!

Actually, I learned from building model airplanes to think through the entire assembly process so that I thoroughly understood it before starting the build. Another thing I do when I'm about to attempt a new technique is I'll do one or two test pieces to see what works and what doesn't. That way, by the time I do it on the guitar, I know I'll have a reasonably good chance of success.

Yeah, I put the first coat of clear on the guitar today. It's a really nice looking top. Lots of silking. Won't be too long.

Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-16 11:46 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-19 10:14 AM (#535231 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Location: Lake Forest, CA

I got the first couple of coats of clear on the top.

Here's a pic showing the coloration and grain of the top. Lots of silking and character.

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arumako
Posted 2017-05-19 12:07 PM (#535234 - in reply to #535231)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-05-19 12:14 AM

I got the first couple of coats of clear on the top.

Here's a pic showing the coloration and grain of the top. Lots of silking and character.



Oh WOW! She is purdy! I'm in no hurry; but man, I can't wait to see her all done! Beautiful!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-05-19 10:43 PM (#535241 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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@arumako - " I can't wait to see her all done! Beautiful!"

+1
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-20 8:20 PM (#535246 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2016-12-29 12:58 AM

This will be getting a torrefied Sitka spruce top and braces. I played this guitar before taking the neck and top off and it sounded pretty good. So, I'll probably be duplicating the K-brace pattern. It's like a simplified A-brace pattern.


It's going to be interesting to see how the "K" brace pattern contrasts to the "A" brace (if any...). I wonder how long Ovation implemented the "K" brace in their production. Haven't heard much about it and the Internet doesn't seem to have much (even the Ovation Tribute site? maybe I missed something?) to say about it either. Very cool (and rare?) combination!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-25 10:41 AM (#535280 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Location: Lake Forest, CA

As near as I can tell from the sales brochures on OvationTribute.com, the K-5 brace pattern was mainly used in the 80s. It was used on the Custom Balladeers and Ultras for that time period.

Sometime in the early 90s, the Ultras were phased out and the Balladeers went back to a modified version of the original X-braces. Not the Ovation Modified-X, but a modified version of the original Ovation X-braces used in the 1960s.


If you look at the 1994 US Catalog, you can see photos of the modified X-braces. These are pretty similar to what I used on my 1111-4.



Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-25 10:45 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-25 10:43 AM (#535281 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I got the final coats on the top, and the neck/head stock. I'm going to let them cure for a couple of days, then final sand and polish everything.
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arumako
Posted 2017-05-26 10:17 AM (#535294 - in reply to #535280)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-05-25 12:41 AM

As near as I can tell from the sales brochures on OvationTribute.com, the K-5 brace pattern was mainly used in the 80s. It was used on the Custom Balladeers and Ultras for that time period.

Sometime in the early 90s, the Ultras were phased out and the Balladeers went back to a modified version of the original X-braces. Not the Ovation Modified-X, but a modified version of the original Ovation X-braces used in the 1960s.


If you look at the 1994 US Catalog, you can see photos of the modified X-braces. These are pretty similar to what I used on my 1111-4.


Thanks for the info Dan. After some attempt at searching on the web, I ended up cycling right back to This thread. I think your 1612's top photo might be the only clear pic of a K-5 brace. I found a thread right here on the OFC from 2009 that discussed this very issue, and the K-5 brace ended as a mystery with no graphic representation of what it looked like. I wonder if the longer side braces of the K-5 will make the top a bit stiffer than the A brace. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you string her up and take her for a spin!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-05-26 11:46 AM (#535296 - in reply to #535294)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



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Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2017-05-26 8:17 AM

Thanks for the info Dan. After some attempt at searching on the web, I ended up cycling right back to This thread. I think your 1612's top photo might be the only clear pic of a K-5 brace. I found a thread right here on the OFC from 2009 that discussed this very issue, and the K-5 brace ended as a mystery with no graphic representation of what it looked like. I wonder if the longer side braces of the K-5 will make the top a bit stiffer than the A brace. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you string her up and take her for a spin!


The 1987 and 1988 Catalogs have photos of the K-5 braces. It's right near the front of the catalog. It also shows a cut-away A-brace behind it.

See: 1988/89 Ovation US Catalog

I recall reading somewhere that the guitar top actually twists as it vibrates, so Charlie designed the quintad braces with this in mind.

The A-brace is, essentially, a quintad brace pattern for a center-hole guitar. But, it requires the reinforcements at the joint between the upper and lower side braces to spread the load from the upper bout to the lower one.

The K-5 brace substitutes the two-piece side A-braces for a single piece of wood on each side. Its profile is taller than the A-brace equivilant, which helps counteract the pulling force of the strings. But, it's construction is simplified and cost is lowered because it doesn't need the extra reinforcments.

Since the top is twisting as it vibrates, the extra height doesn't really affect how it sounds compared to an A-brace. But, it's easier and cheaper to produce.

Obviously, there was some aspect that Ovation didn't like about this brace pattern as it was pretty much dropped by the mid-1990s with the Balladeers going back to their origins, the X-brace.

Now, almost all Ovations are X-braced, even the Elites. The only exceptions are the Adamas, which use the quintad, and the Glen Campbell CLs, which use a VT11 brace pattern. (?)

Yep, it shouldn't be too long, now. I'm going to start the wet sanding/polishing and it should be ready to play by the end of the weekend. (Yay!)



Edited by DanSavage 2017-05-26 11:48 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-01 12:47 AM (#535378 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
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Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

It's been a while since my last post. I've taken a few pics along the way. The top and neck/head stock are done.

I've removed the bridge masking in preparation for gluing down the bridge.



Making sure the bridge fit is good.



Now, you may notice the dark section at the bottom of the saddle slot.

I can't remember where I got this bridge, but the floor of the saddle slot was routed unevenly. I made a simple jig to limit the router movement and proceeded to route the floor so it was more or less flat. The slot was also a little narrow, so I decided to widen it at the same time. In the process routed the floor down to about 1/32" and had a blow-out.

At this point, I decided to remove the floor altogether and replace it with a filler piece. I thought about using walnut, but decided to use a piece of rosewood, instead. I decided to use rosewood instead of the walnut so that the floor of the bridge would transmit the vibrations of the strings a little better.

Bridge footprint is masked.

Bridge is being glued into place.

Clamps removed. Neck aligned and bolted into place, fret board extension glued down.



Rosette glued into place.



Tomorrow, I'll make a new nut, install the hardware and string it up. I still need to touch up the bowl, but I can do that after I finish the rest of the guitar.

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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2017-06-01 6:12 PM (#535387 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 388

Location: moline,illinois
Another pretty Dan Savage guitar,the quality of the top wood and the way you finish them make me drool every time I see one.
Where's this beauty headed off to when she's done,I hope your keeping something for yourself.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-02 12:13 PM (#535395 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the Stewmac torrefied spruce has been consistently high-quality. The silking in this one is particularly strong, almost to the point of obscuring the actual grain.

While this one has been spoken for, no money has changed hands yet. That won't happen until after it's finished and playable. I'll let the buyer speak up when they're ready.

Yes, I've still got the 1111-4 I did a few months ago. I was planning to sell it, but after playing it for a while I decided to keep it as a house guitar. Well, that is, unless someone offers me an exorbitant amount of money for it.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 10:43 AM (#535397 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Nut is made. Tuners are installed and strings are on.

First impression is that it sounds every bit as good as it looks.

Nice clear tone from every string with lots of sustain. I like the K-5 brace pattern. It sounds a lot like an A-brace. I also like the rosewood mod to the bridge. I'm not sure how much it's helping, but it's definitely not hurting anything, sound-wise. I'll probably try it again the next time I use a walnut bridge.



I still need to touch up the bowl, which I'll probably start that job this afternoon.

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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2017-06-03 11:03 AM (#535398 - in reply to #535395)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1310

Location: Gnashville
Nice Dan. Interesting you went with rosewood. One of mine had been routed thru to the top. I chose ebony for the new bridge floor... being the hardest wood in my stash. Like you, I believe it improved the sound, but that would be difficult to prove to a jury.
Keep up the beautiful work.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2017-06-03 2:54 PM (#535399 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15211

Location: SoCal
Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....
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DarenSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 6:32 PM (#535400 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 86

Very pretty. Congrats on birthing another Savage Special.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:02 PM (#535401 - in reply to #535398)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2017-06-03 9:03 AM

Nice Dan. Interesting you went with rosewood. One of mine had been routed thru to the top. I chose ebony for the new bridge floor... being the hardest wood in my stash. Like you, I believe it improved the sound, but that would be difficult to prove to a jury.
Keep up the beautiful work.


Thanks, Jon.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:04 PM (#535402 - in reply to #535399)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2017-06-03 12:54 PM

Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....


Thanks, Paul.

I'll upload the video snippet of your guitar I took the last time I was up at the canyon. It's not much to look at, but the guitar is clearly heard.

Ha! Is it your favorite guitar, yet? LOL!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-03 8:36 PM (#535403 - in reply to #535400)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DarenSavage - 2017-06-03 4:32 PM

Very pretty. Congrats on birthing another Savage Special.


Thanks!
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arumako
Posted 2017-06-03 9:03 PM (#535404 - in reply to #535397)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2017-06-03 12:43 AM

Nut is made. Tuners are installed and strings are on.

First impression is that it sounds every bit as good as it looks.

Nice clear tone from every string with lots of sustain. I like the K-5 brace pattern. It sounds a lot like an A-brace. I also like the rosewood mod to the bridge. I'm not sure how much it's helping, but it's definitely not hurting anything, sound-wise. I'll probably try it again the next time I use a walnut bridge.

I still need to touch up the bowl, which I'll probably start that job this afternoon.

"WOW"...as Arumako's jaw drops to the floor...awaiting full review and video with bated breath! Incredible work Dan!

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marenostrum
Posted 2017-06-04 11:19 AM (#535410 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 996

Location: Tuscany, Italy
Amazing.
Another work of love on a beautifully restored Ovation. I want one
Bravo Dan !
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-04 6:40 PM (#535411 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Thanks, Ken, & Riccardo.

Here's the video I promised. It's just a few snippets of different songs I know.

Dan Savage - 1982 Ovation 1612-4 Rebuild... 



Edited by DanSavage 2017-06-04 6:42 PM
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arumako
Posted 2017-06-04 8:28 PM (#535412 - in reply to #535399)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
moody, p.i. - 2017-06-03 4:54 AM

Beautiful Dan. Had my 1117 out at the canyon last night. It sounds great and plays like buttah! Wish it had sounded that good when I first bought it in 78.....

Okay...now isn't that just going a bit too far? Ah, but one listen to the video says it all...

DanSavage - 2017-06-04 8:40 AM

Thanks, Ken, & Riccardo.

Here's the video I promised. It's just a few snippets of different songs I know.


I used some nice ear-buds to listen to this 1612 - what an amazing voice she has! I suspect the torrefied top is the central reason; with these kinds of results, the Mother Ship is bound to release a torrefied model, or a line...

DanSavage - 2017-06-02 2:13 AM

While this one has been spoken for, no money has changed hands yet. That won't happen until after it's finished and playable. I'll let the buyer speak up when they're ready.

I keep saying, I'm not in a hurry, and I'm not..., but I don't think I've ever been more ready to own a specific guitar (perhaps excluding the 1678av50-5) in my life! I'll take delivery whenever, but I'm ready when you are Dan! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to own a Savage Rebuilt O!

Edited by arumako 2017-06-04 8:29 PM
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2017-06-04 8:35 PM (#535413 - in reply to #535411)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1310

Location: Gnashville
Impressed. MS should be experimenting with torrefied tops IMHO.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-06-04 8:42 PM (#535414 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@Dan - "It's just a few snippets of different songs I know."

And the crowd goes wild! Not only do you produce spectacular guitars, you play them well too. As always, looking forward to the next chapters in the book of Dan.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-09 12:53 AM (#535458 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

All done. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.

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arumako
Posted 2017-06-09 5:51 AM (#535460 - in reply to #535458)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-06-08 2:53 PM

All done. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.


Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW! Oh WOW!
Look at the silking on that sound bo..., look at the beautiful fini..., look at that headsto..., look at that fret-job, wait-a-minute, it just dawned on me that the finger board is not rosewood (duh!)...but ebony? Oh man, she is gorgeous!

Just amazing work Dan!

Edited by arumako 2017-06-09 5:59 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-09 8:05 AM (#535461 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Thanks, Ken.

It's got a few minor flaws, but all in all I'm very pleased with how it turned out.

Yep. Ebony fretboard, not rosewood.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-06-09 2:28 PM (#535462 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
So very beautiful! The silking under that finish is like Mother Nature's virgin snow at sunrise. To whom is this one going?
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2017-06-09 2:49 PM (#535464 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15211

Location: SoCal
Beautiful guitar!
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BanjoJ
Posted 2017-06-09 6:32 PM (#535465 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
September 2012
Posts: 775

Location: Canberra, Australia
Stunning! Well done Dan.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-09 6:46 PM (#535466 - in reply to #535462)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2017-06-09 12:28 PM

So very beautiful! The silking under that finish is like Mother Nature's virgin snow at sunrise. To whom is this one going?


Thanks, Paul. Yes, to coin a phrase, 'the silking is strong in this one...'.

This one is going to arumako.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-09 6:47 PM (#535467 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Thanks, Paul2.

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arumako
Posted 2017-06-10 2:04 AM (#535468 - in reply to #535462)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Love O Fair - 2017-06-09 4:28 AM

So very beautiful! The silking under that finish is like Mother Nature's virgin snow at sunrise. To whom is this one going?

Wow...how fortunate and blessed I feel to have a crack at this 1612. She really is a beauty and Dan's meticulous work is the stuff of legend. I did ask Dan to use the same "Rebuild" label that he used for jays 485 (of course, it doesn't appear in any of the pics that he uploaded, Lol); but folks are going to be asking questions when they see this beauty and I definitely want to have a good explanation!

The timing was perfect too; as a nice drop-off and hand-carry has been arranged - which means delivery in about two-weeks - just can't wait to give her a spin!

She'll be called the "Ovation DSR1612-T4 Custom Balladeer", and I just know I'm going to love this guitar. It would be extremely appropriate to quote something that moody, p.i. said on Dan's 1978 1117-4 Rebuild thread and I quote,

"If you are thinking of asking Dan to work on a guitar, know that his work is worth a lot more than he charged me. Pay what he asks. It's worth it."

I'll check back into this thread when I take delivery! Thanks Dan!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-06-10 1:33 PM (#535473 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Lucky you, Ken. You are fortunate to have this one in your collection! Looking forward to reading your review upon receiving it.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-06-10 8:54 PM (#535485 - in reply to #535468)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2017-06-10 12:04 AM

She'll be called the "Ovation DSR1612-T4 Custom Balladeer"
...
I'll check back into this thread when I take delivery! Thanks Dan!


That's quite a mouthful, Ken. Doesn't exactly trip lightly off the tongue. LOL!

Kidding aside, you're very welcome. I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions once you get it in your hands.
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2017-06-16 11:31 AM (#535542 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 511

Location: Muenster/Germany
It´s time for a 12 string
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arumako
Posted 2017-06-17 10:03 AM (#535558 - in reply to #535542)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DetlefMichel - 2017-06-16 1:31 AM

It´s time for a 12 string

Was just casually looking at the post when, Whoa...DetlefMichel you've got Dan's 1619 Rebuild? How cool is that?
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-06 9:56 AM (#535708 - in reply to #535485)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2017-06-10 10:54 AM

Kidding aside, you're very welcome. I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions once you get it in your hands.

Well, I've been wanting to post a follow-up on this thread but have been delayed a bit. My son finished his freshman year in college and returned safely from the States with Dan's rebuilt 1612. Unfortunately, the airlines dropped the guitar from a pretty significant height scratching the case; but more importantly damaging the guitar. The tongue of the fingerboard popped off of the sound board along with a part of the rosette (first time I've had a problem with this particular airline). Fortunately, Dan bubble wrapped the neck and headstock very well, and the adhesive Dan used to secure the fret board to the top was providential (Hysol 0151) and let go. Had it not, the fret board or the sound board would have cracked. Had to get my insurance company involved. Of course, the airlines are saying they don't guarantee fragile baggage like guitars and there's no guarantee I'll get anything out of the claim, but it doesn't hurt to try...

After taking all the pictures needed for the claim, the insurance company gave me a go ahead to begin repairs on the 1612. Fortunately, the repairs were minor, but having a go at fixing the 1612 gave me a deeper appreciation for Dan's art. Of course, you all already know this, but the reconstruction of the 1612 is simply immaculate. To keep costs manageable (and pass the savings on to me), I think Dan used existing parts to the best of his ability. Here's a shot of the 1612-4 with my 1117-4.

1612 & 1117

Although I knew it in my head, I was surprised by the resemblance these two instruments have to each other. Sitka spruce top, ebony fret board (right down to the inlays), walnut bridge, rosette...but then, there are significant differences;

Bowl: 1117 - hand laid, 1612 molded
Neck: 1117 - 5 piece w/ binding & truss rod adjustment @ headstock, 1612 2 piece w/o binding & truss rod adjustment @ sound hole.
Saddle: 1117 - one piece, 1612 6 piece
Bracing: 1117 - VT-11, 1612 K-5
Pre-amp: 1117 - N/A, 1612 volume only (1st generation pre-amp)

A comparison of these two guitars are of great interest to me because my 1117-4 is a '73 vintage with the original sound board while the 1612 is '82, but with a new torrefied top. Check out the silking on both!

silking

I finished my repairs a couple of days ago and re-strung both guitars with brand new Adamas 1818Es; and in just 3 days the 1612 has really opened up. To my great surprise, while maintaining the unmistakable O sound these guitars have completely different voices. Was planning a video comparison, but that's gonna have to wait until the weekend.

Suffice it to say, I am totally blown away by Dan's 1612. It's one of the easiest playing guitars that I have giving just the right resistance. The perfect neck angle allows the action at the 12th fret to be 2.2mm on the 6th string and a whopping 1.6mm on the 1st (I have it set a bit higher)...really tempted to try the 1919Es! The torrefied top really gives this guitar a great voice and the K-5 bracing (as you anticipated Dan) gives it the same kind of dynamic balance as the A-brace. Ovations always sound great through a PA, but I took my torrefied 1612 to a rehearsal, and the moment I strummed one chord...wow, the depth and clarity of this guitar's voice through a PA was something to behold...no exaggeration, everybody stopped what they were doing and jaws were dropping all around the room...

Hope to add a video here eventually; but for now, I'm in torrefication paradise. Thanks for the beautiful quality work Dan! I could not be more pleased! Arigato Gozaimasu!



Edited by arumako 2017-07-06 10:19 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-06 10:37 PM (#535715 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

Wow! What an epic story, Ken.

I'm so very glad to see that the guitar made it despite the mishandling by the airline. (United Breaks Guitars)

I'm also very glad that you were able to repair to a playable state again.

It should provide you with many years of enjoyment.

Dan

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DetlefMichel
Posted 2017-07-10 12:52 PM (#535735 - in reply to #535558)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 511

Location: Muenster/Germany
arumako - 2017-06-17 5:03 PM

DetlefMichel - 2017-06-16 1:31 AM

It´s time for a 12 string

Was just casually looking at the post when, Whoa...DetlefMichel you've got Dan's 1619 Rebuild? How cool is that?


Oh that´s a very cool Ovation, but what I got was a re-build of the re-build. The new glossy surface was somewhat imperfect (I could not see it on the pictures here)and was replaced by a kind of matt oil ? finish. Looks nice to me and the haptics is very good. Thus the top is even thinner than before, because all the coatings were grinded off. And as far as I understood the frets were replaced by smaller ones, more like the old from the 70´s, and the typical fretboard extension was straightened so that we have a complete straight neck until the last fret. (That was not a good idea, because the strings have not the same place to move, especially the E and A string.I would have kept a slight angle). And someone tried to apply a matt finish to the rosette (I guess nitro laquer), being not aware the the laquer would destroy the plastic. Good idea? The matt look of the guitar was nice, but the tarnished and eroded rosette looked a little sad to me, I removed the laquer, plained and polished the rosette, looks better now. And I removed the incredibly ugly looking monkey-****-brown laquer coating of the carved bridge. It´s a beautiful piece of wood again now. And I made a new brass nut for more sustain.
Besides all these little problems the guitar now is phantastic, the bearclaw of the spruce top is stunning. The thin top allows to play with my favourite low-tension Thomastik strings without any loss of power, the guitar has the old 70´s neck profile which I like most and sounds very impressive, not so much Bass like an A-braced one, but lots of dynamics! If you start soft and continue to play louder it feels like a turbo-charger, it´s a "fast", "agressive" guitar, the most "rocky" Ovation I have.
I can make some pics, if the sun may occur again in this bad wheather.

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arumako
Posted 2017-07-10 5:42 PM (#535737 - in reply to #535735)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DetlefMichel - 2017-07-10 2:52 AM

I can make some pics, if the sun may occur again in this bad wheather.

Thanks for responding! That is a really cool guitar. I guess you could say, it has a lot of unique history! How does it compare to your 1619-1? And, Yes! Pics please!

...and @Dan that video is hilarious, but so professionally done that the humor gives me a reality check...I've never had a hand carried guitar damaged before; and "in Japan" the mail couriers are so courteous, and (almost) never break anything...when they do, they immediately will follow through with any claim that might arise...kinda gives me an appreciation of why imported guitars are so expensive in Japan! Customs and Insurance!

And alas, Photobucket has changed their free "linking" policy. One needs to subscribe to "Unlimited linking and 3rd Party Hosting" to be able to share pics on other websites. The links to my pics are dead in all of my previous threads...afraid I'm gonna have to leave it at that...oh well. Need to find an alternative! Any suggestions?

Edited by arumako 2017-07-10 5:44 PM
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2017-07-10 8:14 PM (#535739 - in reply to #535737)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10232

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
arumako - 2017-07-10 3:42 PM

And alas, Photobucket has changed their free "linking" policy. One needs to subscribe to "Unlimited linking and 3rd Party Hosting" to be able to share pics on other websites. The links to my pics are dead in all of my previous threads...afraid I'm gonna have to leave it at that...oh well. Need to find an alternative! Any suggestions?

Yeah... Photobucket is just going to be Greedy, cuz I ain't paying.
Photobucket says that I can still download my photos back to my computer, or keep them stored at PB.
A solution is to edit the size on PB and then download the image back onto your computer.
The use the "[] Attach a file after posting". You just need to shrink the photo down to about 600 wide so that it doesn't come out LIFESIZE on the OFC page.
You can also put photos onto FarceBook and them link them using the "copy image location" right click thingy

I just did that here... I hope this helps.
Always PREVIEW before you post to find out if your photo is going to be HUUUGE.

Sorry if I hijacked your post, Dan.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-10 10:33 PM (#535741 - in reply to #535735)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DetlefMichel - 2017-07-10 10:52 AM

Oh that´s a very cool Ovation, but what I got was a re-build of the re-build. The new glossy surface was somewhat imperfect (I could not see it on the pictures here)and was replaced by a kind of matt oil ? finish. Looks nice to me and the haptics is very good. Thus the top is even thinner than before, because all the coatings were grinded off. And as far as I understood the frets were replaced by smaller ones, more like the old from the 70´s, and the typical fretboard extension was straightened so that we have a complete straight neck until the last fret. (That was not a good idea, because the strings have not the same place to move, especially the E and A string.I would have kept a slight angle). And someone tried to apply a matt finish to the rosette (I guess nitro laquer), being not aware the the laquer would destroy the plastic. Good idea? The matt look of the guitar was nice, but the tarnished and eroded rosette looked a little sad to me, I removed the laquer, plained and polished the rosette, looks better now. And I removed the incredibly ugly looking monkey-****-brown laquer coating of the carved bridge. It´s a beautiful piece of wood again now. And I made a new brass nut for more sustain.


Yes, the 1619 has an interesting history.

It was originally an engineering model sent to Rickard. The braces were hand-made. Because of the fairly crude nature of their construction, I'm led to believe this was one of the original A-brace Ovations. I've still got the original top.

The production A-brace reinforcements were originally molded fiberglass, (1619) then became perforated aluminum. On this guitar the reinforcements were simple lap-joint strips of spruce. The fan-braces were cut out of spruce, similarly to what I do now. The difference is that on this guitar they were simple butt joints. On all later A-brace guitars the main cross-brace was notched. If you go back and look at the rebuild thread you can see what I mean.

IMO, trying to make the fretboard extension straight so it lined up with the neck was a waste of time. That wasn't me, but was done for the guy who bought the guitar from me.

Yes, the plastic on the rosette is extremely sensitive to any type of solvent, probably because it's made from styrene instead of more durable types of polymers. The dulling of the gloss finish probably happened when the new owner's luthier stripped off the Randolph dope finish I applied. The finish I applied to this guitar was an experiment. If you go back to my 1619 thread, you can read the details of what I was attempting to accomplish. After this guitar I swore off lacquer decided to stick with polyurethanes.

Sorry about the monkey **** brown lacquer on the bridge. (actually Randolph aviation dope finish tinted with dry artist pigment) That was me. (doh!) That was my attempt to deepen the color of the walnut. Had I known to use Old English Oil, as I do now, it would have looked better than it did.

In any event, I'm glad that after all this that the guitar is still a great sounding instrument and is in the hands of someone who appreciates it. :D
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DetlefMichel
Posted 2017-07-11 3:53 AM (#535742 - in reply to #535741)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
May 2011
Posts: 511

Location: Muenster/Germany
Hi Dan, don´t get me wrong, I HIGHLY appreciate this guitar. And I´m PROUD to own a DS Ovation.(Hello Arumako!) I followed the making of it like a serialized novel and I NEVER would have thought about being her owner one day.
Recently I treated her with new gold schallers, with slightly shorter axles for better string pressure on the nut and a finer 1:18 ratio. And a luthier-made custom armrest. It IS a one-off guitar.
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-11 7:33 AM (#535744 - in reply to #535741)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
@OMA - Thanks for always being so helpful. Might need to work from FB...I wonder if Google photo is worth a try? Maybe I'd better start a different thread for this...

DetlefMichel - 2017-07-10 5:53 PM
I HIGHLY appreciate this guitar. And I´m PROUD to own a DS Ovation. (Hello Arumako!) I followed the making of it like a serialized novel and I NEVER would have thought about being her owner one day.
Recently I treated her with new gold schallers, with slightly shorter axles for better string pressure on the nut and a finer 1:18 ratio. And a luthier-made custom armrest. It IS a one-off guitar.

I know what you mean DelefMichel. I follow all of Dan's threads and learn so much from him; and I too, am a very proud owner of a DS Rebuilt O. They really are special. The torrefied top and bracing on my 1612 really give her a clarity of voice and depth that's nothing short of stunning! Yours is the only DSRO in Europe! Mine...the only one in Asia (at least for now!). You live in Muenster too! That's also very cool cuz one of my students lives there now! WASW!

DanSavage - 2017-07-10 12:33 PM
Had I known to use Old English Oil, as I do now, it would have looked better than it did.

Hi Dan...so does that mean this 1612's bridge was also treated with Old English?

Edited by arumako 2017-07-11 7:41 AM
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-11 7:56 AM (#535745 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan

Okay, well this is not totally unrelated...so here's a shot using Google photo (same photos shared previously)...
The DSR1612-T4 and 1117-4...

1612 & 1117

and check out the silking on these.

Silking

Well, Google Photo seems to work...sheesh, Google is gonna own the world pretty soon!



Edited by arumako 2017-07-11 7:58 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-11 8:25 AM (#535746 - in reply to #535737)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2017-07-10 3:42 PM

...and @Dan that video is hilarious, but so professionally done that the humor gives me a reality check...I've never had a hand carried guitar damaged before; and "in Japan" the mail couriers are so courteous, and (almost) never break anything...when they do, they immediately will follow through with any claim that might arise...kinda gives me an appreciation of why imported guitars are so expensive in Japan! Customs and Insurance!

And alas, Photobucket has changed their free "linking" policy. One needs to subscribe to "Unlimited linking and 3rd Party Hosting" to be able to share pics on other websites. The links to my pics are dead in all of my previous threads...afraid I'm gonna have to leave it at that...oh well. Need to find an alternative! Any suggestions?


Yes, in retrospect I am sorry I didn't just ship it. My worry was the rosewood insert I put into the slot of the bridge. The last thing I wanted to have happen was to have the guitar confiscated under CITES rules.

I have my own online storage (GoDaddy) that I use to serve up images.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-11 8:28 AM (#535747 - in reply to #535744)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
arumako - 2017-07-11 5:33 AM
Hi Dan...so does that mean this 1612's bridge was also treated with Old English?


Yes. And the fretboard, too. I wipe it on, let it sit for a few minutes so the wood can soak up the oil, then wipe off the excess.
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-11 8:30 AM (#535748 - in reply to #535742)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
DetlefMichel - 2017-07-11 1:53 AM

Hi Dan, don´t get me wrong, I HIGHLY appreciate this guitar. And I´m PROUD to own a DS Ovation.(Hello Arumako!) I followed the making of it like a serialized novel and I NEVER would have thought about being her owner one day.
Recently I treated her with new gold schallers, with slightly shorter axles for better string pressure on the nut and a finer 1:18 ratio. And a luthier-made custom armrest. It IS a one-off guitar.


I know how much you are enjoying the guitar and will for many years to come.
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-11 9:16 AM (#535749 - in reply to #535746)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
DanSavage - 2017-07-10 10:25 PM
Yes, in retrospect I am sorry I didn't just ship it. My worry was the rosewood insert I put into the slot of the bridge. The last thing I wanted to have happen was to have the guitar confiscated under CITES rules.

I have my own online storage (GoDaddy) that I use to serve up images.

Thanks for the GoDaddy tip, Dan. I was just contemplating a web hosting site for my workplace. GoDaddy looks really affordable and user friendly! Cool.

With regard to the CITES thing... I really think in the final analysis, a hand carry was better than shipping. I've heard that customs over here is having a field day with CITES category imports. Guitar shipments are especially under heavy scrutiny. A confiscation could have been a very real threat. Even with the hand-carry, it would not have taken that much for customs to get suspicious, and hold the guitar over night for inspection. Just glad the 1612 is in good shape again. She really is killer...can't wait to share a video...

When re-installing and adhering the neck, I got a good look at the rosewood insert that you put in the bridge slot. Just a very clean job with a perfect finish. Got a kick out of your explanation to DetlefMichel about the history of the bearclaw 1619. Never would have figured that my Master's judgement could ever be in error! LOL!

Edited by arumako 2017-07-11 9:17 AM
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-11 2:29 PM (#535750 - in reply to #535749)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
I've always had good luck shipping stuff to Japan. I've probably shipped 5-10 model airplane kits to Japan and every one arrived in good condition.

But, if you ship a guitar that has CITES banned wood without an export number (hard to get) the receiving country's customs will usually confiscate the guitar and destroy it. :0

Until recently, the only rosewood on the CITES list was Brazilian. This changed and now all species of rosewood are under CITES control.

There's a loophole in the CITES export rules that says if you buy a guitar in the USA and carry it out, it's assumed that you're not an exporter, so you're allowed to take CITES banned wood out of the country.

That's why I told your son that if anyone (customs) asks, his dad (you) bought it for him as a gift and he was just taking it home to Japan.

Thanks for the kind words.
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2017-07-11 5:59 PM (#535754 - in reply to #535745)
Subject: RE: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 388

Location: moline,illinois
arumako - 2017-07-11 7:56 AM

Okay, well this is not totally unrelated...so here's a shot using Google photo (same photos shared previously)...
The DSR1612-T4 and 1117-4...

1612 & 1117

and check out the silking on these.

Silking

Well, Google Photo seems to work...sheesh, Google is gonna own the world pretty soon!



well when I kook at the thread there are no pics,don't know if you need to make them open to public viewing


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arumako
Posted 2017-07-11 8:03 PM (#535755 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks for the heads-up 2wheeldrummer! Gonna need to figure this out! I'll give it a shot again later...
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2wheeldrummer
Posted 2017-07-11 8:47 PM (#535756 - in reply to #535755)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2014
Posts: 388

Location: moline,illinois
arumako - 2017-07-11 8:03 PM

Thanks for the heads-up 2wheeldrummer! Gonna need to figure this out! I'll give it a shot again later...



Your quite welcome,i've seen the pics from when dan finished the rebuild it's a beautiful guitar and your a lucky man to own a DSRO!!!

I keep pics on my laptop and add them by using the "attach a file after posting" box.

you are limited on size so you have to edit them first but heres one for ya

Edited by 2wheeldrummer 2017-07-11 8:56 PM




(IMG_1251.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_1251.JPG (99KB - 0 downloads)
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-20 6:39 AM (#536817 - in reply to #535756)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan

2wheeldrummer - 2017-07-11 10:47 AM

I keep pics on my laptop and add them by using the "attach a file after posting" box.
you are limited on size so you have to edit them first but heres one for ya


Thanks for the hot tip 2wheeldrummer! I'll definitely give that a shot. Meanwhile, I've uploaded a video using my DSRO on UT. I tried to get some good sound; but alas, my archaic equipment was not holding up well to my CPU's limited media capabilities, and my off-key voice is something to behold, LOL...

The video (I hope it's visible?) does not do the guitar justice. It's been really hard putting this 1612 down. She really is amazing in every possible way!



Edited by arumako 2017-07-20 6:46 AM
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BCam
Posted 2017-07-20 9:59 AM (#536818 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
October 2014
Posts: 158

Video isn't working.
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-20 10:35 AM (#536820 - in reply to #536818)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
BCam - 2017-07-19 11:59 PM

Video isn't working.

Thanks for the heads-up BCAM... Man, can't seem to get anything working correctly nowadays...guess I can share a link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VM3smyPfzs

sorry folks!
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Love O Fair
Posted 2017-07-20 11:29 AM (#536823 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@arumako - "and my off-key voice is something to behold, LOL..."

And beholding it I am! Nice video! I also liked the rich depth of the 1919's in the upper range on your CC-247.
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DarenSavage
Posted 2017-07-20 6:00 PM (#536826 - in reply to #536820)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
December 2016
Posts: 86

arumako - 2017-07-20 10:35 AM
Thanks for the heads-up BCAM... Man, can't seem to get anything working correctly nowadays...guess I can share a link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VM3smyPfzs

sorry folks!

I have the same problem when I try to use YooToob's embed link. When I copy/paste the link from address bar, it does what it's supposed to.

Nice video. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed hearing the 1612 again, although it's much prettier now.
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arumako
Posted 2017-07-20 6:41 PM (#536827 - in reply to #536823)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Love O Fair - 2017-07-20 1:29 AM
And beholding it I am! Nice video! I also liked the rich depth of the 1919's in the upper range on your CC-247.


Don't be beholding that thing for too long, Love O Fair! Yikes, but thanks for the nice comment. Yup, the CC-247s top is laminated maple...very hard stuff. The 1919Es give it depth and seems to bring the best resonance out of the guitar. Had to add a bit of reverb though...

DarenSavage - 2017-07-20 8:00 AM
I have the same problem when I try to use YooToob's embed link. When I copy/paste the link from address bar, it does what it's supposed to.

Nice video. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed hearing the 1612 again, although it's much prettier now.

Thanks for the tip Daren. I'll go the cut/paste link route next time. Much, much prettier. Your brother did an amazing job. She really sings and is well suited for any kind of playing. Really shines with finger-style and arpeggios. Lot's of depth and clear separation of each note, and sustain, sustain, sustain! I am in torrefied paradise!
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DanSavage
Posted 2017-07-21 2:03 PM (#536832 - in reply to #536827)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Nice job, Ken. The video was great.

Yeah, once your ears become accustomed to the sound of torrefied wood, it's hard to go back.
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arumako
Posted 2018-09-25 8:02 PM (#545413 - in reply to #536832)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan

DanSavage - 2017-07-21 4:03 AM

Yeah, once your ears become accustomed to the sound of torrefied wood, it's hard to go back.


Hello again BFLG! Well, I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to post a 1-year update on my amazing 1612 Custom Balladeer. "My ears are accustomed to the sound of the torrefied wood" or so I thought...after the guitar arrived damaged 2 summers ago (as mentioned in the thread, the airline took full responsibility for the damage and paid for the full price of the guitar), I wanted to get this beauty repaired ASAP, but kinda felt like I rushed the job and never really felt completely at peace about the work I did. She sounded great anyway; so just kept it as is until last week.

After comparing her to my 1678AV-50 and my 97C, felt like there should be more resonance from a torrefied top/bracings; so, last week the neck came off and the reset was, well, reset. The body under the fret board extension was resurfaced, and cleaned-up again. Also exchanged the standard bridge saddle shims for some hand-cut holly shims (had some success with holly on my CS249-4Y nylon; so decided to try it on this).

The small modifications has done an amazing job of really bringing out the full-resonance of this guitar. This is probably what she sounded like when Dan recorded his short demo video here...

https://youtu.be/WAM16vQedgI

So, as I was getting reacquainted with this beautiful instrument, I was inspired to write a short fingerstyle instrumental. You know they say a great instrument inspires writing. Results aside, I am definitely inspired! Just wanted to share the results here, as I think it's a better representation of the acoustic characteristic of this instrument, than anything I've posted before...

https://youtu.be/xYbtgmUwwmE

This beauty has worn 1919E medium gauge strings for the last year with absolutely no problems whatsoever! Earlier in the thread Dan mentioned, "It should provide you with many years of enjoyment." If she sounds this good now, can't even imagine what she'll sound like in 20 or 30 years. A treasure to keep for sure! I can definitely get accustomed to this!



Edited by arumako 2018-09-25 8:04 PM
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-09-26 3:11 PM (#545416 - in reply to #545413)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Nice job, Ken.

I like the song you wrote, too.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-09-26 4:34 PM (#545418 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
Ken.. I see that you are not the only performer in your family. Nice floor dance. Is that chew toy up to union pay scale? Oh, and your 1612 is sounding just grand, nicely complemented by your wonderful songwriting skills! High scores all around!!
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arumako
Posted 2018-09-27 2:35 AM (#545420 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
October 2012
Posts: 790

Location: Yokohama, Japan
Thanks for the kind comments Dan and Al!

When I originally rushed the reset, a very small gap of about one-third mm existed between the body and the fret board extension right where the fret board meets the body. The extension attached flush to the body down by the sound hole. Was concerned, but my ignorance dictated that it wouldn't be such a resonance damper. The 97C which has a slightly shallower bowl was equally resonant to the poorly reset 1612. Figured it was the difference between a 12-Fretter and 14-Fretter at first. Glad I took the plunge...

As performance summaries go, I think it would be accurate to say the torrefied top and braces really gives a 14 Fretter the depth and resonance of a 12 Fretter and then some. Presently, the 1612 blows the 97C away (and you know the 97C has an amazing voice all its own). I'm still debating whether it has out-paced the 1678AV-50 or not... thinking pragmatically, I'm not sure that's a conclusion that I should be drawing...

...and yeah Al, never realized my dog was such an exhibitionist! Don't know about Union requirements for the chew toy, but the dog and wife ain't complainin' so that's gotta mean something good?

Btw Dan, any projects coming down the pike for ya? You've been pretty quiet after the Harry Chapin rebuild. The publicity must have made that a bit of a pressure project?
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-09-27 10:51 AM (#545421 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
>>> I'm still debating whether it has out-paced the 1678AV-50 or not... thinking pragmatically, I'm not sure that's a conclusion that I should be drawing... .<<<

Yeah.. old cars and new guitars. Sometimes it just happens. There come what feel and seem to be.. let's just say "confusing".. revelation comparisons in life, where the pragmatic brain and dollars spent are ultimately overruled by satisfied senses and the knowing heart.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-10-06 11:38 AM (#545468 - in reply to #545420)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA

arumako - 2018-09-27 12:35 AM

Btw Dan, any projects coming down the pike for ya? You've been pretty quiet after the Harry Chapin rebuild. The publicity must have made that a bit of a pressure project?


Sorry, I meant to answer your question, but got distracted.

I was asked to duplicate an earlier build of mine, the 1978 1617 Legend, seen below.

It was bought by a guy in New York who loves how it sounds so much that he wanted another one.

After he'd had it for a while he asked me how I managed to get the sound of a Martin HD-28 into an Ovation body. (he owns/plays a Martin HD-28, among others)

The major difference between that build and the new one is that for that one I used torrefied Sitka spruce for the top and braces. The new one is using torrefied Adirondack spruce to supercharge the sound.

I didn't start a thread because it would mostly be a duplicate of the older thread as there were no new ground being covered -- just a simple re-top.

The old top is off, body prepared, new top built and ready to be glued down this weekend.




Edited by DanSavage 2018-10-06 11:41 AM
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Jonmark Stone
Posted 2018-10-12 3:21 PM (#545484 - in reply to #545468)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...


Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1310

Location: Gnashville
Let us know how it turns out. Might be the way to go on my parlor.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-10-13 10:50 AM (#545490 - in reply to #545484)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Jonmark Stone - 2018-10-12 1:21 PM

Let us know how it turns out. Might be the way to go on my parlor.


You've got mail.
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Love O Fair
Posted 2018-10-13 10:34 PM (#545495 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
February 2016
Posts: 905

Location: Spin axis of a California map
@Dan - >>>I didn't start a thread because it would mostly be a duplicate of the older thread as there were no new ground being covered -- just a simple re-top.<<<

But I hope you post pictures of the final result. We'd love to see that Adirondack finish.
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Old Man Arthur
Posted 2018-10-14 1:26 AM (#545497 - in reply to #531533)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10232

Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR
I didn't start a thread because it would mostly be a duplicate of the older thread as there were no new ground being covered --
just a simple re-top.

Yeah Dan... But all football games are the same-old same-old, but I still watch them anyway.
It is always entertaining to see your projects.
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DanSavage
Posted 2018-10-14 6:19 PM (#545504 - in reply to #545495)
Subject: Re: 1982 1612-4 Custom Balladeer...



Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 1801

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Love O Fair - 2018-10-13 8:34 PM

But I hope you post pictures of the final result. We'd love to see that Adirondack finish.


I will.

Old Man Arthur - 2018-10-13 11:26 PM
Yeah Dan... But all football games are the same-old same-old, but I still watch them anyway.
It is always entertaining to see your projects.


Fair enough and thanks for the kind words. While it's a little late to start a thread on the current project, I will definitely start a thread for the next one, which should be pretty cool.
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