1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif
sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:13 PM (#531077)
Subject: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Posts: 61

OK, so there I was, looking for a tan case for my recent Pacemaker rebuild. Found this on ebay. I imagine some of you might have seen it. A poor little Balladeer 1112-4. Somebody started a top project, and probably realized it was way beyond them. I call these EL Kabong guitars. Notice the bondo on the back. Neck is still straight. and frets are rusty, but unworn. Headstock is tip top and rosette is in great shape.
Hmmmm, think I will ponder this for awhile. Case is just what I wanted.
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:15 PM (#531078 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:16 PM (#531080 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:17 PM (#531081 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:18 PM (#531082 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-06 3:19 PM (#531083 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Love O Fair
Posted 2016-12-06 4:44 PM (#531086 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: What week?
Bondo on Lyrachord.. now that's tripping me out. It's definitely a cold weather project, and I'm sure you'll eventually make something out of it, but for now.. nice case :-)
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-06 6:05 PM (#531088 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
It looks like the bowl got crushed and repaired at some point.
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jay
Posted 2016-12-06 7:04 PM (#531090 - in reply to #531088)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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"bowl got crushed"

I would love to hear that story.

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0018g
Posted 2016-12-06 8:50 PM (#531092 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Looks like it could be a straightforward re-top job.

Maybe you could smooth out the back, prime and block the heck out of it, some black base and some clear, and make a shiny bowl? Could be interesting.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-06 11:41 PM (#531094 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Could be done as a shiny bowl. Or, use some truck bed liner like I did on the 1619 CL.

Sometime I'm going to perform an experiment with a spray gun to duplicate the textured finish. Basically, adjust the gun to spatter the paint instead of spraying a smooth finish. (think: Wagner spatter, er, spray gun)
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-06 11:46 PM (#531095 - in reply to #531090)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
jay - 2016-12-06 5:04 PM

"bowl got crushed"

I would love to hear that story.



As a former R/C modeler, I've repaired more than one 'crushed' fiberglass part.
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arumako
Posted 2016-12-07 8:43 AM (#531097 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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That looks like a handful sandshark! We've seen Dan masterfully rebuild the bowl on his 1619, can't wait to see what you do with this Deluxe Balladeer!
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standing
Posted 2016-12-07 12:25 PM (#531100 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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I hope you realize that, if you complete that project, you'll be right back where you started; looking for a case. ;-)
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 12:26 PM (#531101 - in reply to #531097)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Posts: 61

Yeah Dan, I fixed my share of the old Byron birds also. I will grind out the bondo and then do a nice lay-up will light glass, if necessary. I call these types of damage " jealous girlfriend afflictions" . There is no doubt this was a swinging El Kabong. I have not seen an Ovation do this just from an accidental drop or fall over. I have seen a few of these over the years. When it gets done to a regular acoustic, man they are a mess. think i will give the torrified top a try on this one. Stew mac has some nice stuff. Thanks for all the interest and suggestions gentlemen. We'll see how this comes along. Somebody on Reverb has some nice carved O bridges for sale. Might give that a go also.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-07 3:10 PM (#531106 - in reply to #531100)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
standing - 2016-12-07 10:25 AM

I hope you realize that, if you complete that project, you'll be right back where you started; looking for a case. ;-)


Yeah, that's been my problem. The fixer-uppers usually don't come with cases, so I'm forever on the hunt for cheap cases.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-07 3:20 PM (#531107 - in reply to #531101)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Aha! Now, I get the 'El Kabong' reference. LOL! Or, it could be what a kid thought was a hobby horse.

You won't be sorry you went with torrefied wood. Be forewarned that once you go torrefied, you won't go back. I would suggest buying the torrefied brace stock at the same time.

One of the side benefits of torrefied wood that's not discussed very often is the stability in changes in humidity. It's for this reason that I use torrefied braces with torrefied tops. I don't want different rates of expansion between the top and braces due to absorbtion of moisture.

sandshark - 2016-12-07 10:26 AM

Yeah Dan, I fixed my share of the old Byron birds also. I will grind out the bondo and then do a nice lay-up will light glass, if necessary. I call these types of damage " jealous girlfriend afflictions" . There is no doubt this was a swinging El Kabong. I have not seen an Ovation do this just from an accidental drop or fall over. I have seen a few of these over the years. When it gets done to a regular acoustic, man they are a mess. think i will give the torrified top a try on this one. Stew mac has some nice stuff. Thanks for all the interest and suggestions gentlemen. We'll see how this comes along. Somebody on Reverb has some nice carved O bridges for sale. Might give that a go also.
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:06 PM (#531108 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


Joined:
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Posts: 61



Edited by sandshark 2016-12-07 4:09 PM
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:13 PM (#531109 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:14 PM (#531110 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:15 PM (#531111 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-07 4:25 PM (#531112 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
Yeah, getting rid of the kerfed wood lining would have been one of the first things I would have done, too.

FWIW, the factory used 2 layers of 8.5 oz. 2x2 twill fiberglass cloth in the lay-up of the bowl.
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:36 PM (#531113 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


Joined:
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Posts: 61

Ok, so here are some pics of current progress. Routed off part of the  wood kerf lining previously installed by an unknown person. Then used a chisel to remove the rest. It practically fell off. Basically no adherence to speak of. No sanding of the surface of the bowl had been done before gluing. Unknown glue, maybe gorilla glue or epoxy that has turned brown with age? 

Removed as much of the bondo as possible. OK, this is starting to look like a doable project.

Worst El Kabong I ever saw was when I lived in San Diego decades ago. A kid about 16 or so brought me a guitar to repair. It was his Dad's handed down from his Dad. The kid said that he had lost his temper trying to learn the F major chord and in a fit of frustration, smashed it against his bedroom door frame. His Dad was in the Navy, on deployment, and could I fix it before he came back. The guitar was destroyed. I told him only the neck was any good.He asked me if I thought his Dad would be really mad since it was just an old guitar that his grandpa had left to his Dad after he died. I looked at him and said " this is a 1947 Gibson L7 in one of the rarest colors, green, and you better hope you live to see your next birthday after your Dad sees this". He turned as green as that guitar, poor kid. Hated to see that beautifull archtop all smashed up like that.

Dan, I saw your post on Stew Mac about the torrified tops. I guess I will have to take the plunge also.

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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-07 4:46 PM (#531114 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


Joined:
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Posts: 61

So, I may just repair the cracks with polyester resin. Most of the gelcoat is intact. I will have to do some shape checking to see how far out of round it is. Doesn't really seem to be that bad at first glance.



Edited by sandshark 2016-12-07 4:49 PM
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-12-07 6:22 PM (#531116 - in reply to #531106)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Location: SoCal
DanSavage - 2016-12-07 1:10 PM

standing - 2016-12-07 10:25 AM

I hope you realize that, if you complete that project, you'll be right back where you started; looking for a case. ;-)


Yeah, that's been my problem. The fixer-uppers usually don't come with cases, so I'm forever on the hunt for cheap cases.


Dan, I've got an aftermarket case for Ovation deep bowls. No idea where I got it or what guitar was in it. It's empty now.

You can have it if you want it.
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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-07 6:30 PM (#531117 - in reply to #531116)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



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Location: Lake Forest, CA
moody, p.i. - 2016-12-07 4:22 PM

Dan, I've got an aftermarket case for Ovation deep bowls. No idea where I got it or what guitar was in it. It's empty now.

You can have it if you want it.


Thanks, Paul. I'll take it! I don't need it right away. It'll be for the 1111. Bring it with you the next time you come over.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2016-12-07 7:39 PM (#531119 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Location: SoCal
Will do....
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-08 12:16 PM (#531147 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


Joined:
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Posts: 61

Did some detailed analysis of the bowl today. Suffice to say it has "issues" Quite a bit of warping has occured along the top edge. Cannot be flexed out with pressure. Going to take an awful lot of work to get this right.Close to 1/8 in a couple spots. Hmmm, is it worth the effort? Especially with the busted bowl work?
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-08 12:17 PM (#531149 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-08 12:18 PM (#531150 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-08 12:19 PM (#531151 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: RE: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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DanSavage
Posted 2016-12-08 7:11 PM (#531170 - in reply to #531077)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif



Joined:
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Posts: 1949

Location: Lake Forest, CA
Since it's a hand-laid bowl, you can perform a bowl-bend to fix the warping.

Basically, I would clamp the bowl as you've done, then apply heat in the form of IR heat lamps or a heat gun. I've done a bowl bend with a heat gun. IMO IR heat lamps would heat it more evenly.

It's going to have to be heated to ~250° before the epoxy reaches its TG temp. (TG = transitional glass temp = temperature where the epoxy becomes rubbery, once it cools it will take the new shape)

Edited by DanSavage 2016-12-08 7:13 PM
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sandshark
Posted 2016-12-09 9:48 AM (#531176 - in reply to #531170)
Subject: Re: 1978 Deluxe Balladeer Waif


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Posts: 61

Hi Dan,
Yeah, I have done warp removal before. Pretty time consuming, especially with the multiple warps and other problems. I am considering the time effort of repairing this run of the mill Balladeer vs the sale value after it is done. If I was dealing with a higher level Ovation, or a rare model it would make a difference. With the multiple warps there is a chance of loss of correct shape, so i would need to build an outline form. More time lost from other money making projects. I had a form years ago, but gave it to another luthier who was getting a lot of O repairs during the eighties. I had backed off of doing O work to concentrate on vintage other brands. Not doing as much now, getting older and lazier. LOL Guess I will have to make up my mind one way or the other. I do love my Ovations but can't keep every one I repair.
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