Posted 2016-02-06 8:29 PM (#521970 - in reply to #521967) Subject: RE: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2014 Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota
It is Interesting!
I think because of the competition, and economy, Companies will do anything to save money were they can. It is the only way to compete in a Mass Market and hopefully turn a profit.
I found it interesting that he had no problem with the strings being outsourced, because they were made to Specs, so that made them okay, but the tuners etc were not okay being outsourced. Not going one way or the other here, I don't have enough information to draw conclusions, but it would seem if the OEM demanded the same quality as their OEM Standards, and had Quality Control that kept up with inspecting that Product on a regular basis to ensure it, why would we care who ultimately made the product and stamped someone else's name on that product? But if they are being made sub-standard to save money, and no one cares that they are not up to par of the OEM's Original Standard, then, there is a problem, and long term that company is going to lose business.
This has nothing to do with his subject, but I found his way of writing his "S's" upside down, and "K's" upside down was extremely distracting! LOL!!!
Posted 2016-02-07 4:25 AM (#521979 - in reply to #521967) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7232
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
While I know what he was trying to say, I think he is making a mountain out of a mole hill. He could have simply said "some OEM parts from Companies generally known as "Made In USA" may be from elsewhere, if you are concerned look for the "USA" related stamp or non-USA related model name" and then give a couple of examples.
There are Grovers stamped USA or Made In USA or Pat Pend.... If they are not stamped, they are the imports.
Seymour Duncan pickups are stamped Made In USA, but as that's hard to know without taking them off the guitar, the import line is imprinted on the top of the pickup clearly as "Duncan Design".
I'm sure in the past some actual counterfeit (for lack of a better term) got through to users, but to my knowledge it's not done as much anymore simply because these guitar builders want to make money and one way to do that is actually put quality parts on the guitar.
I'm sure there are examples of misleading manufacturing related spew all over, but I don't think it was worth the 15 minutes of my life watching that video that I wasted.
Posted 2016-02-07 9:27 AM (#521983 - in reply to #521967) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: June 2002 Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ
Very little is 100% "made in" anywhere. The auto industry has done a good job by requiring full disclosure of content. My car was "made in" Germany but the parts content is all over the map. When someone mentions German precision engineering you usually don't equate it to a transmission built in France.
Posted 2016-02-07 1:12 PM (#521987 - in reply to #521970) Subject: RE: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2006 Posts: 6995
Location: Jet City
Nancy - 2016-02-06 6:29 PM I found it interesting that he had no problem with the strings being outsourced, because they were made to Specs, so that made them okay, but the tuners etc were not okay being outsourced.
Two different things. The strings being made to spec are being done so they can have a string offering different from what's currenly available. For instance, our own beloved "Adamas" brand (which will be available again soon). The strings are made by D'Addario, but to what our engineers think sound best on an Ovation.
The tuners, bridges, pickups, etc., those are being built to be cheaper that the standard product. The best example I know of are tremolo systems, ESPECIALLY Floyd Rose. 99% of everything that says Floyd Rose on it, is NOT a Floyd Rose, but licensed by them. On a real Floyd, it'll just say "Floyd Rose", on the cheaper ones there's a tiny little "Licensed by".
To what Dave says, it's fine if there are parts from various companies and other countries, but taking the Floyd for an example again, most of the "licensed" models are very cheap copied. The real bridge is all machined parts whereas the "licensed" models are die cast. That's hat the guy in the video was saying about the tuners too.
People want cheap pricpoint on guitars, so this is what happens. If you want real high quality parts, you have to pay the piper. A Floyd Rose is $200, good pickups another $300, another $75 for decent tuners. There we are at $600 already and haven't even delved into the wood, elecronics, and not to mention the time of the crqftsmen who built the thing.
Posted 2016-02-07 2:41 PM (#521996 - in reply to #521967) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2015 Posts: 41
I remember, until I ran out, the plain strings in the Adamas sets (I bought a lot, kept in the freezer with silica packs) had a twist in them. You could see the spitaling when the light reflected off of them.
Will the D'Addario strings return to that feature of the sets from the '80s?
Posted 2016-02-07 3:03 PM (#521998 - in reply to #521967) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 7232
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
And HERE is where it gets dicey as Damon shows. You can send your $650 guitar to someone and for around another $600 have all the accouterments swapped to their quality counterparts. Pickups, Electronics Package, Nut, Cover, Bridge, even get the original Top Hat knobs. Add another $300-ish for a high-quality Floyd Rose and you have pretty close to the $5000 guitar for about $1,500. Now the tricky part, it gets sold. We'll assume the 1st transfer is an honest deal, but the buyer could care less about "upgrades" and whatnot... they got a $5000 for $2000. Now they sell it for $3000 because someone really wants that color or whatever. Somewhere down the line, someone is going to figure out they just paid over $3000 for a guitar that is not a hand-made, hand carved, Made In USA guitar.
They place this will come up is.... maybe it needs new frets, and that call the factory, and send it to the custom shop. Now you're the tech at the custom shop. Do you tell the owner it's not really a high-end guitar that was hand made with hand-picked woods carefully glued together and carved and shaped by hand by a guy that's been doing that all his life in Southern California, or tell them their precious guitar is one that was routed by machine out of a piece of lumber in Korea and painted nice, shipped and sold in the USA to someone that swapped the parts early on in it's life and it's worth now about $400 as a guitar.
RIGHT HERE (on this page) is where we see how forward thinking Ovation was with solid bodies. The GS and GP guitars were only "Assembled" in the USA. They had the heavy lifting of the Body and Neck made in Korea, but when it was time of assembly, they were put together in Moosup Connecticut. They had Schaller hardware, Kahler bridges and Dimarzio pickups. Not licensed for OEM or whatever, the quality stuff.
In fact, the only way to get an "equal" to an 80's GS today, is buy a nice import super-strat for about $600 bucks and spend about another $900 in hardware and electronics.
Posted 2016-02-07 4:45 PM (#522001 - in reply to #521967) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2001 Posts: 10583
Location: NJ
how many of these major guitar companies get bodies and necks made overseas????
grover has not been USA for 20 plus years nor have kluson
this guy is kinda out of touch IMHO
I've heard that ping builds parts for schaller and then they get "assembled" in germany
also I've heard that fender sends bodies and necks over the boarder to mexico all the time and know the exact formula for calling an instrument Made in usa
do you really think they can spray lacquer in california??????? maybe touch up but not in the way they need to be
Posted 2016-02-07 9:04 PM (#522008 - in reply to #521987) Subject: RE: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: December 2014 Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota
Damon67 - 2016-02-07 1:12 PM
Nancy - 2016-02-06 6:29 PM I found it interesting that he had no problem with the strings being outsourced, because they were made to Specs, so that made them okay, but the tuners etc were not okay being outsourced.
Two different things. The strings being made to spec are being done so they can have a string offering different from what's currenly available. For instance, our own beloved "Adamas" brand (which will be available again soon). The strings are made by D'Addario, but to what our engineers think sound best on an Ovation.
I heard that from an Associate of Sam Ash a couple of weeks ago! Happy Days!!!
Posted 2016-02-08 9:42 AM (#522017 - in reply to #522013) Subject: Re: OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
Joined: July 2015 Posts: 190
Location: SW Mintsoda
Mark in Boise - 2016-02-07 10:07 PM
alpep - 2016-02-07 3:29 PM
sivertone
LOL
I noticed that and couldn't watch any more. A guy with bad penmanship and spelling shouldn't write stuff on the whiteboard.
Well, he DID spell "OEM" correctly...
In general, he made an important point - not everything is what it's promoted to be. When you hear Kluson or Grover or Tone Pro's, you know those companies' past; but you may not be aware of their present parts suppliers or even current location of their manufacture.
Alpep's point about F****r guitars place of origin is also a good point. Lots of stuff going across the border in both directions in order to meet price points or deal with California clean air regulations... regulations that manufacturers deal with creatively sometimes.
OT: Guitars companies, who makes who?
