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Location: Michigan | after posting on the pick pocket post , it made me think about that when i go into a guitar store to putz with some guitars and i start to hear some of the other people in the room playing at such a much higher level than i will ever be able to achieve in my life , i find that i usually wont even pick up a guitar but just listen and watch them do there stuff.
i just don't feel comfortable playing around people that have so much more talent than i will ever have.
what about you ? GWB |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | I have always been like that GWB.
I could play beautifully to my horses, dogs, and birds, but completely freeze up around people. Can't do it! I have never had the desire or need to play for others, but I sure am glad they do!  |
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Location: Phoenix, AZ | I can relate completely! I can play decent when no one else is listening, as soon as I try to "show off", I mess up...
I have major respect for those who can play well with an audience. |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I jam with a group of people twice a month. Their musical ability ranges from beginner to pro standard, so there are better players than me and some I'm better than. But I guess that applies to most things in life.
I learn a lot from the jams and this has inspired me to get back into performing after a nearly 30 year break. Like most things, the more I do the better I get, but I know that there will always be better players and singers than me. I often have very good musicians in the audience, which is a bit daunting. However, whenever they comment on my performance its always positive.
The important thing is that I enjoy it, and its a bonus if some of the audience members enjoy it too - and they do.
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Yup!
I am also embarrassed by people who compliment my guitar playing...
Most of them don't play so they don't know that I am pretty terrible. 
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Location: Utah | I'm comfortable playing in a band or ensemble as long as I am prepared. Playing with musicians much better than me is fun and a learning experience, but I really want to be able to play competently so they are not annoyed. My issue is I am not a soloist nor much of a singer, so I am very uncomfortable performing alone. A music store is a worst case scenario for me, because I just don't know and can't play anything solo, while there are plenty of people watching and hoping to hear something great. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I play much better than a friend of mine, Scott.
But Scott is a great entertainer, and people love to hear him play and sing.
I'm decent, but probably fairly boring. People listen to me, but may not be "entertained."
Moral?: You're better off with a certain style, and the ability to grab the audiences attention, than you are just being "good." |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I find it much easier to perform to a bunch of strangers than to family and friends. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Good advise from all.... even Darkbar.
Playing with someone "better" than you is like getting a free lesson.
Do it whenever you can.
..
Also depends the company you keep.
I try to be supportive and helpful when I can be. That's because the "better" people I've hung with were always that for me. |
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Location: Glendora, CA | We have a weekly jam at lunchtime on Wednesdays to break up the week. We work 10 hours a day 50 a week so we find by Wednesday we are in need of some steam letting. It's an eclectic bunch - three on guitar, six on different sizes of ukulele, and a fiddle player. Most of the time I play uke and sing. By far my voice is my best playing instrument! I have though over the last few months, since I found my first O, started playing guitar on some songs. Thing is I find it really difficult to sing at the same time, this puts me WAY out of my normal comfort level, and makes me super self conscious. I find when I think to much about it my playing suffers. When I can relax and "let it flow" my fingers seem to have a mind of there own. I just gotta relax and let them do there thing without tripping to much.
My buddy Dick K who jams with us has been playing since he was 14, he is incredible. I have to echo what others have said, when we jam it's both inspiring and like getting a free lesson, when he lays down some fill lick, then shows us how he done it. Next week I am gonna record him playing some of my O's so we can all see how they should sound in the hand of a pro - I wouldn't play for you all for YEARS..at least on guitar. You can see me playing the theme from The Fall Guy on my tenor uke on YouTube - but all videos of my guitar playing are under house arrest! |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | It depends on the person who is better than me. Running the shop I see all types of people. Some are amazing guitarists and are not trying to show off. Those are the ones who make me want to grab my guitar and ask them, "Hey, show me that chord!"
But sometimes I get these really insecure people in here who feel the need to boost their egos. For example this past summer there was a couple who came in. In summer, the first thing I do is ask where they are from as this is a tourist area. Well this guy said (and this is an exact quote), "I'm from Alaska and I'm a musician." He immediately took out his smart phone and clicked on a video of him and threw it on the table in front of me. He wasn't that good. Played everything in open D and just barred straight across to get chords. (I got the feeling he never learned real chords.) And his singing was loud and abrasive.
What was really cool was, a few minutes another guy came in from Wisconsin who could play circles around almost anyone I have EVER heard. He was quiet and self-effacing. The guy from Alaska was NOT happy. After he left the Wisconsin guy and I played together and I learned some new stuff.
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Location: Jet City | I just wear this make sure everyone knows what they're in for
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Old Man Arthur - 2015-10-30 6:51 PM
I am also embarrassed by people who compliment my guitar playing...
Most of them don't play so they don't know that I am pretty terrible.
Ditto.
When people ask me if I play the guitar, I tell them it depends on who you ask. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Damon67 - 2015-10-31 9:29 AM
I just wear this make sure everyone knows what they're in for
That shirt is awesome. As for the OP... I somehow learned early on that music is art. There is no good or bad, there just is. If I play like crap and someone likes it.. well they liked it.. and that's all that matters. If I play great and no one likes it... except maybe me... hey... that's good too. If I play with someone and learn something.. that's even better.
I have recently challenged myself to perform solo. I don't really have a plan, but I need to come up with some arrangements. The only time I ever played onstage by myself was a musical talent show when I was a kid. So while I wouldn't be intimidated to play in front of friends and family, I don't know how unless there is a band. So I'm gonna learn how and report back.. |
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Location: Colorado | Hanging with guitarists who are way better than me - has helped me get better - learn from them...Even if it is one little lick...sometimes you already have some of the skill...they just showed you what they do...then you practice it ---and you can do it too. I thought Matt Smith was one of the best at playing very well - and teaching a technique or two...he is humble too. I was never a good bluegrass player...but spending a couple days with Brad Smith...helped my right hand technique...I have found most people are not judgmental...and if they have the time...they share...I asked Kevin Cronin the other day about a chord...he was happy to share...btw...he plays better than I thought he did...just doesn't ahve to do it with the band. |
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Location: Utah | Alison, great story about the Alaska guy vs Wisconsin!
Have you heard if the buyer of the 6778LX-VN I sent a while back is enjoying it? |
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Location: undisclosed | I agree with Miles. I grew up jamming and learning by ear as well as learning the classical approach so playing with all levels was just a part of musical life. Adjusting to audiences was more challenging as they are non playing participants yet affect the mood and vibe of the occasion.
I think it really goes all ways. I've learned as much from beginning musicians as seasoned pros, perhaps because they are approaching music with fresh ears and fewer rules. This certainly can stretch your responses. I have a well developed case of polyphonic advanced earitus so on some level it is making sense. When it goes way outside the box, toss the box....
It is good to remember that while there are differing levels of technique there is only one you when it comes to expressing yourself. Someone may be more articulate but they can't express you. Of course I hate it when my hands are thrashed and I can't do my best but I'll still give it a shot.
In art Grandma Moses was a primitive in terms of technique and skill but this didn't keep her from painting valid pictures.
My advice in music stores is just to get down to business and tune other things out. I'll check an instrument for tone and playability through the ranges and noodle enough to get an impression but never worry about performing, I'm too busy evaluating.
Edited by Cavalier 2015-10-31 2:39 PM
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Steve, he's sitting here playing it right now and absolutely loves it. The original guy who was buying it for his wife backed out on the deal but it's in better hands now anyway. I don't know if you met Dan when you were out - older guy with a buttery smooth voice? Anyway, it's his now and both he and the guitar are very happy. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Slipkid - 2015-10-31 10:31 AM
Good advise from all.... even Darkbar.
Hey! What the hell is THAT supposed to mean...???? |
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Location: Utah | CanterburyStrings - 2015-10-31 3:49 PM
Steve, he's sitting here playing it right now and absolutely loves it. The original guy who was buying it for his wife backed out on the deal but it's in better hands now anyway. I don't know if you met Dan when you were out - older guy with a buttery smooth voice? Anyway, it's his now and both he and the guitar are very happy.
I don't remember Dan but it doesn't mean I didn't meet him. I'm glad he loves the guitar. |
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Location: Pittsburgh | The short answer for me is YES. But I do it almost weekly when I play with two of my sons, who both perform. Many good comments on this thread that gave me some new ways of looking at it. Thanks! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | No |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It's the best lesson, skating on the thin ice and falling in, nothin makes you learn faster. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I wish I could find someone better than me to play with. Or worse. Or about the same. I'll take anyone. |
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Location: Canberra, Australia | Generally, no. I actually quite enjoy playing with people who are better than I am, provided they're a little patient with me not being able to cope with some stuff (I'm still working on barre chords for example). Everyone that I've played with has been quite patient though, and I've found that it's helped encourage me to get better faster so that I'm less embarrassed by my skill level.
BanjoJ has also been instrumental in getting me up in front of other people performing. When I first started playing guitar, I had no intention of ever doing that, but it's actually much easier than I expected (the ever-present nerves aside). A friend of mine (who's been playing about 25 years) and I are now working on a repertoire with a longer-term goal of performing small gigs. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Looks like Canberra is replacing Brisbane as 'Oz OFC Central'... |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | muzza - 2015-11-02 7:28 PM
Looks like Canberra is replacing Brisbane as 'Oz OFC Central'...
It's because of our beautiful climate down here. |
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Location: us | Hell.....I am embarrassed to play in front of myself ! |
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Location: Muenster/Germany | When I was -younger- I was busking for quite a time. In the pedestrian areas I lost most of my stage fright, but still today playing in front of an audience of Claptons and Hendrixes is a nightmare. But I love to play WITH good players, life is for learning. |
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Location: Seacoast NH | I consider myself to be a high intermediate to low expert player, but really don't ever consider myself to be better or worse than anyone else. I play in a rock cover band with my buddies and the other guitar player is great at soloing, and is very technically competent. But as often as I might ask him how to play a lick or what scale that is, he asks me what chord I'm playing, to show him a strumming pattern, come up with a chord progression, or if I can figure out a funky breakdown in a bridge or something. We just have different strengths, I don't think one of us is better than the other necessarily.
Now that's not to say there aren't people who are just gifted. I have an older cousin who's been playing since he was a kid. Played Metal in high school in the 80s then joined the service and played in the Air Force Jazz Band. To hear this guy combine metal, classical, and jazz is almost a religious experience. I relish every opportunity to play with him because I walk away invigorated, excited, and knowing a few new tricks to add to the old portfolio... |
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA | Hi, Everyone,
Speaking as a player who has played for over 50 years, I went through/played on various "stages", with my playing alone and/or in public. Being physically handicapped, overcoming "stage fright" was a major hurdle, but having practiced up to 8 hours a day, at one point in my studies, definitely made me a better guitar player. I also took Speech and Theatre Arts for 3 years to hone my performance skills. Now as a Praise and Worship Player, in local churches and coffeehouses here in my city, I just strive to be the most excellent player I can be, in every situation, because; a) yes, there are other guitarists who are much better than me, but, b) there are guitarists who are worse than me, c) after all my studies, starting with guitar, I do believe that I am also a much better all-musician, simply having studied more than just guitar, and playing many different musical situations, but, d) I have come full circle now, and just enjoy playing in the years I have left. Most people in your audience, who are not musicians, can't tell how good or bad you are, really, and they don't care about it as much as some other guitarists/musicians, especially those who have very fragile egos, which I know are none of us here present at OFC.
Edited by Michael R. Seguin 2015-11-04 11:35 PM
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| In one of the songs on the tribute album of John Cale and Lou Reed to Andy Warhol sung by John Cale there is a line that says: "I think sometimes it hurts you when you are afraid to be called a fool". So true. |
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| I remember when I was younger that skiing with someone better than me was the best way to improve my skiing. I think the same is true of many things, including guitar playing. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | BCam - 2015-11-11 5:41 AM I remember when I was younger that skiing with someone better than me was the best way to improve my skiing. ...as long as you survive the experience. MY first time on skis... my 'buddies' took me down a black run. |
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Location: Flahdaw | muzza - 2015-11-10 7:15 PM
MY first time on skis... my 'buddies' took me down a black run.
Typical Aussies...(crazy bastards!) |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | BCam - 2015-11-10 1:41 PM
I remember when I was younger that skiing with someone better than me was the best way to improve my skiing. I think the same is true of many things, including guitar playing.
I Love learning from someone who knows what they are doing, anything I do, I want to learn from someone really good. But I like to watch them intently, ask a ka-billion questions on how and why, then go off somewhere and do it by myself. I'll never make it to a stage, but that works perfectly for me! .
Edited by Nancy 2015-11-10 8:13 PM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Darkbar - 2015-11-11 12:45 PM
Typical Aussies...(crazy bastards!)
Some of us aren't crazy ... just bastards. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I actually love to play with anybody I can!
Playing with people better than me is fun and inspiring. I used to be in a band with another guitar player who, when I asked him how he played something, was happy to play it for me again - with his back turned. It used to crack me up AND piss me off. But I learned a lot from that guy. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | If I have to think about how I play something, I screw it up. So, if someone asks me how to play something it's frustrating for both of us. Maybe that's why your buddy turned his back.
My next public performance may be our daughter's wedding. I probably should practice in front of other people, but I'll probably just shut myself in my room and go over it a jillion times. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | Mark in Boise - 2015-11-11 3:00 PM
If I have to think about how I play something, I screw it up. So, if someone asks me how to play something it's frustrating for both of us. Maybe that's why your buddy turned his back.
No Mark, the guy was just a huge smart-arse and got a kick out of making me figure it out on my own.
:-) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Maybe that's why I'm such a pessimist. When I try to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I'm usually wrong. I really do have a mental block about showing someone how to play something, though. I just don't get enough opportunities to play with someone else. |
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Location: undisclosed | If you let me play your 2010 collectors again next time you're in the PNW I guess we could jam. Otherwise forget it!
Just joking but if it makes you more comfortable bring some cash for the pay to play. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I saw one on Al's website. I'm sure he'll make you a great deal. The next time I come up there with a guitar will probably be July. I'm already trying to decide which guitar I should bring and whether I can leverage our daughter's wedding into some new gear. When I express shock at the wedding costs, I know it's going to come back and bite me. "You said we can't afford this, so why do you want to spend money on that?" I know I can't win. I pay either way. It's hard to explain why one of my 17 guitars and 6 amps or whatever won't work. Maybe I'll baffle them with an explanation of bowl depth. |
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Location: undisclosed | You might try needing a guitar to match the decor of the venue and attire of the wedding party.... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Cavalier - 2015-11-13 5:09 AM
You might try needing a guitar to match the decor of the venue and attire of the wedding party....
And I thought I tried everything! After my input about saving money I haven't been consulted. There was some talk about a South American theme with a taco truck. That was rejected or I might have had to get a Flamenco guitar.
I tried out my acoustic amp with an additional small powered pa speaker and it sounded pretty good. The Bose L1 or even the L1 Compact are definitely better, but the L1 is way more than I need and I don't know if I even want the L1 Compact sitting around for years after my single short public performance. |
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Location: undisclosed | You need to use the wedding as a springboard to play more gigs, hand out cards- it's another gas angle. After all performance has different needs than practice.
Your local store might let you demo or rent a amp for the gig, maybe a direct box or amp to the venue PA? It probably is best to use something you are used to as the sound will make you more comfy and line out if more is needed.
I've penciled you in for July but there is the chance I'll be sailing North that time of year. Maybe sea chanties on deck? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I can borrow a Bose L1 if I want, but it's just too big to haul to Seattle, set up and take down for a few minutes' use. The L1 Compact may be perfect, but my acoustic amp and powered PA may work and it's paid for. The ceremony is outside and the reception with a DJ will move inside and use the venue PA.
I have no burning desire to gig, but would like to jam with people better than me or worse, just so I have an excuse to play. I have several possibilities, including the owner of the Bose L1 and the guy next door, who has a band. We keep saying we need to get together, but it never happens. Everyone seems to be busy with other things. |
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Location: Jet City | Mark, you can use my powered mixer, speakers, mics, etc. It's what we did Zach's wedding with.
I meant to let you know that a lot sooner when you asked before. Sorry buddy. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Thanks, Damon. I wish I could say you were too late cuz I bought the Bose, but I didn't. The two used ones available here don't have the carrying cases and that makes them not such a great deal. GC offered to sell me their's with a flight case, which brought the price up to the price of a new one with the case. When I told the sales guy that, he said "good luck with your search." I hadn't been in there in a long time and it's no wonder it's dead. It was kind of nice to sit in the acoustic room by myself, though, except for no Ovations or really any acoustic guitars of interest.
Back to the theme of playing with better players, you want to join me for my rendition of the Wedding Song? I think the last time I played it I couldn't get in sync with my brother on guitar and his daughter on piano. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Whenever I play in front of people I just imagine they're all drunk. but then, I don't have much imagination. |
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Location: Jet City | Mark in Boise - 2015-11-13 12:04 PM Back to the theme of playing with better players, you want to join me for my rendition of the Wedding Song? I think the last time I played it I couldn't get in sync with my brother on guitar and his daughter on piano. It'd be an honor. What's the date? By the way, I don't think I ever saw which daughter... Is it Rachel? |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | fillhixx - 2015-11-14 10:32 AM Whenever I play in front of people I just imagine they're all drunk. Thats the beauty of performing in Australia, you don't have to IMAGINE they're drunk... |
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | muzza - 2015-11-14 11:18 PM
Thats the beauty of performing in Australia, you don't have to IMAGINE they're drunk...
+1 |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Damon67 - 2015-11-13 6:18 PM
Mark in Boise - 2015-11-13 12:04 PM Back to the theme of playing with better players, you want to join me for my rendition of the Wedding Song? I think the last time I played it I couldn't get in sync with my brother on guitar and his daughter on piano. It'd be an honor. What's the date? By the way, I don't think I ever saw which daughter... Is it Rachel?
I was just kidding. Rachel is trying to cut down the guest list by a lot. July 9. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Personally, I think the Wedding Song should be strictly a solo performance |
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | You gonna record it and put it on here?? |
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | We had wedding song done at our wedding although I didn't do it. A friend did. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I doubt anyone records it, unless someone videos the wedding. We have a video somewhere when I played and sang the Wedding Song for my parents' anniversary. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Nowadays there's always someone who is going to be recording everything.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-11-15 1:43 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | Slipkid - 2015-11-15 2:40 AM
Nowadays there's always someone who is going to be recording everything.
"Police shoot unarmed wedding singer, claiming he pointed guitar at them. Film at eleven..." |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Darkbar - 2015-11-15 5:49 AM
Slipkid - 2015-11-15 2:40 AM
Nowadays there's always someone who is going to be recording everything.
"Police shoot unarmed wedding singer, claiming he pointed guitar at them. Film at eleven..."
Did you ever see Desperado, with Antonio Banderas? They had guns blazing out of the guitar cases, even a bazooka from one case!
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Redefines the definition of BaddAss. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | And then there's the instersection of Antonio Parkway and Avenida de las Banderas in Rancho Santa Margarita, CA.
The city officials swear the streets were named long before the actor became famous. Ya, right!
See: Antonia Parkway & Avenida de las Banderas. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Oh Yeah...
There was some really fine Spanish and Flamenco Guitar playing in the movie! And for the guys, Selma Hayek, who really is the female equivalent of Antonio. Not one for the kids though... |
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Location: undisclosed | Anyone seen Carmen? Paco De Lucia was in it, great flamenco.... |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Everybody has his/her own niche. If i worried about playing in front of better people than me, I'd never play, because most people would be better than me. ^_^
I played in a band called "Wooden Nickel" (inspired by the Crosby, Stills and Nash bootleg of the same name) with Jody Ray and John Murphy. Three vocals and three acoustic guitars, originals and covers. Jody and John are two of the finest guitar players I've ever known. Jody is an intuitive, natural picker, and John is professional grade. No lie; John could hold his own on the same stage with the likes of Clapton or Joe Walsh. Of the three of us, I am the least talented. I’m not exactly chopped liver – I’m a solid rhythm player and have some slick fingerpicking moves – but technique wise they could blow my doors off.
But that’s not what it’s all about.
I fill my niche; I play my role. I’m the foundation. Nothing flashy, but if you pull me out the walls come tumbling down.
It is what it is. Sure – I’d love to play as well as Jody or John - or a number of other pickers, too. If I don’t, though, I’m okay with it. Don’t let a little self-consciousness keep you from having fun…
Edited by rick endres 2015-11-20 1:30 PM
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1478
Location: Michigan | tuesday night i hooked up with a musician friend that i have not played with since 1966.we had a band together then and since have went our different ways. we use to have had to be driven by our parents our gigs because we were far from drivers license than ( 13 -14 -15 )
what a ton of fun and it was like we have not been playing together for a long time. within a couple of songs ( 10 ) minutes or so we were back in the groove much better than we were years ago.
it was just really strange the way we came back together and could play the songs we struggled with back then ,,, and now after a few minutes we are doing a steler job on them.
it was a really a cool night that will always stay in the memory banks.
p..s. we did it all electric but i did plug in the merb 12 string for a few jams .GWB |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | That's a good story.
What songs did you play? |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1478
Location: Michigan | my friend likes to play lead riffs much more than rythym so we played some cream , hendrix , yes e.l.p. neil young and a song that i just picked up last week wicked games by chris issac
here is what i remember
im so glad
white room
were going wrong
badge
down by the river
wicked games
gloria
from the beginning
lucky man
hey joe
your gonna miss me
and you and i
this was a full blown jam session of us just switching off playing leads and rythyms with no rules just start playing whatever you wanted and the other guy comes in and backs it up . a whole bunch of fun that night and it was great that we both still had the songs down fairly well for not jamming with each other for so long.
i know that i am getting old because we didn't crank up the amps like we used to. GWB
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1478
Location: Michigan | i used the adamas 1598 merb on
from the beginning
lucky man
and you an i.
and of course as always when i plugged in the adamas
i found out that i needed to replace the battery, it never fails.  GWB |
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Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | A set list that's near & dear to my heart.
Well done.
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