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Location: Tennessee | I spoze that maybe the DW folk might see this ... so I can contribute my dos pesos. I'm real glad there's a spark of life in the old girl, and glad my California brethren are riding the white horse. If it was my money you were spending, here's what I'd ask you to do. Get your production lines dialed in by building an OFC 3 guitar to get started off. I bought a 1 and a 2 so you know I'm in. You need to work with AlPep to pull it off I think, if he's willing to do it. But this time, it needs to be a workingman's guitar, maybe half the price of the 1's and 2's. It needs to say all those things that are what the Ovation brand stands for, at at the same time be innovative and modern like the last generation of guitars out of CT in the 2005-2009 years. In other words, exactly what folks here are saying you're gonna built anyway. Save the pinnacle high-end model that you can do for a 50th Anniversary special which you have to put out next year anyway. That one can be $5K or more guitar. I don't want to open a can of worms as to what the OFC 3 should have in terms of features and finishes. Since it's my money, I say just let Darren and Al spec it out, and you guys decide. I'll buy one just because. Happily. Think about it like it was family and friends night at your new restaurant the night before you opened your new place to the public. Here's to you! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If Al can pull this off it would be a no brainer purchase. |
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Location: SoCal | ditto |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | That is an Excellent Idea!!
I know you only create a special number for the OFC runs, and that will immediately create a Have To Have Collectible right from the Get-Go!!!
"Save the pinnacle high-end model that you can do for a 50th Anniversary special which you have to put out next year anyway. That one can be $5K or more guitar."
HOLY Buckets!! I need to get my butt in gear saving for that!!! That would be Incredible!!!
Edited by Nancy 2015-04-26 3:53 PM
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Location: NJ | I still have a couple of new KOA guitars available.
so payment up front ........ |
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Location: Colorado | OFC 3...I'd be in....sorry Al - I never was a KOA guy...I always liked the guitars that were tools of the trade....I just got lucky on one.... |
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Location: SoCal | Guess a dollar a month for OFC3 won't work?
I am a little surprised that Al still has some of his great Koa slotheads left...I got one of the 14-fret a couple of months ago...great, great guitar. We asked for it and Al worked with the factory to deliver. It is a SLOTHEAD!! WIDE NECK!! VIP pre-amp...maybe the only example of an Ovation slothead now or in the future.
These have been sitting in inventory but as new as when they left the factory (and warranty). |
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Location: Canada | I'd just be happy with another 1687 RI, still haven't even covered the basics ... |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | My AlPep Koa is getting as much (if not more) play time than my '08 Collectors Adamas. It is amazing that Al still has some to sell. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I like the idea of a limited run OFC model. But maybe they should start off with something special, yet still basic.
Might be asking a bit much to come out with some sort of tricked out Adamas right out of the gate.
.
Ovation's bread & butter has always been... The Working Man's Guitar. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Ok. I'm in too BUT, it has, as in HAS to be a 1 3/4 nut |
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Location: south east Michigan | Hey... just who do you think your are? |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | I'm in too. Maybe make matching 6 and 12ers...? |
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Location: SoCal | Leave it to the guy using just half his brain to come up with a brilliant idea! I'm in..... |
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Location: SoCal | Well, one side at a time reduces fatigue... |
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Location: Indiana | Not everyone likes wide nuts.
Tried my best to put that another way.... |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Jonmark Stone - 2015-04-27 2:47 PM
Not everyone likes wide nuts.
Tried my best to put that another way....
O...M...G.... I am learning - I put my pop back in the fridge when I decided to come and read these posts - Thank God I did! LOL!!!!! These last 3 would have been nose-snorters for sure!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | JS, that was funny |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I think Beal also gets credit for "free ones" in terms of string preference, so do what you will with "wide nuts" and "free ones". |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I'm thinking the working man's guitar would be an A-braced deep bowl legend 1617 with modern electronics (Op-Pro Studio?). The sprucing up could include a hand-laid bowl, adamas suspended top and maybe some unique stain to the wood so it really stands out from the crowd. This would keep the costs down while making it special. And make some wide necks, for those of us who like big nuts.
Edited by TAFKAR 2015-04-27 4:27 PM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Well wide or skinny nuts, it doesn't matter, as long as it has string tubes.... |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I've got some spare string tubes if anyone wants to buy them. $20 a set. I went crazy during the string tubes threads. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I assume Beal is also responsible for the brass nut on the UK2. That reminds me I have to replace mine. (The brass nut on the UK2.) |
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Location: SoCal | I think I have one in my pile of misc stuff. Shoot me your address Mark and I'll send it out. moody dot pi @ cox dot net |
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Location: SoCal | richard.parker - 2015-04-27 2:26 PM
I'm thinking the working man's guitar would be an A-braced deep bowl legend 1617 with modern electronics (Op-Pro Studio?). The sprucing up could include a hand-laid bowl, adamas suspended top and maybe some unique stain to the wood so it really stands out from the crowd. This would keep the costs down while making it special. And make some wide necks, for those of us who like big nuts.
Make it an adirondack spruce top. Always sorry when I put an A braced body on my old 77 Legend that I didn't go with a red spruce top.....
Edited by moody, p.i. 2015-04-27 6:40 PM
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Location: SoCal | Let's see, with AAA spruce and A brace...might as well have a carved bridge, carved truss rod cover, brown bowl, ? brown case, and throw in abalone...sounds like a 2015 (or 2016) Anniversary Custom Legend. After all, the 30th Anniv CL was in 2004. This would be to celebrate the 1st year.
Maybe a nice transparent nutmeg finish? |
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Location: Cicero, NY | A wide neck, Adi topped, A or Quintad braced CL, Op-Pro with abalone over an ebony fretboard and carved bridge and TRC...yikes, I'm in. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Sure ya are Wease. You can bring it to the next suspect gathering.
Oh wait.... |
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Location: Colorado | +1 on the 1 3/4. Slotted headstock for a stronger break angle. Adi top. Deep Bowl. a dark nutmeg...with just the right amount of Abalone....Not too fancy on the electronics....I always thought the OP 24 was just about right....quick to use.....wouldn't mind a GAS/Boost button....and get it in the hands of the pros...and the usual suspects will follow. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | immoody - 2015-04-27 5:33 PM
I think I have one in my pile of misc stuff. Shoot me your address Mark and I'll send it out. moody dot pi @ cox dot net
Thanks, but I already got the nut from John. I just have to put it on. |
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Location: SoCal | Agree, and a slothead!
However, by now, probably at least $2,600 or higher. For the workingman? Is that someone like Cliff, Temp, and a few others (at least as a percentage of OFC'ers).
In the beginning for the first OFC, number of members gave input as to the cost...that one (granted a slothead Adamas) was $5,000. Majority of the OFC couldn't participate due to the cost. Limited run better again be very small.
Al still has a couple of new old stock (NOS) slothead Koa at about $2,100 that he was encouraged to have made. Some are always negative about Koa even if they have never played one. I have five Koa which are keepers. |
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Location: Jet City | Pardon me for dreaming for a moment....
Urelite over an aluminum frame, 24 fret bound ebony fingerboard with easy access up high, built in piezo and GK3 pickups, coupled with redesigned (really no need to) neck and bridge vintage Ovation pickups (UKII in the bridge, Viper single in the neck) for a total of 4 pickups.
The OFC UK IV |
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Location: Jet City | and a brass nut |
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Location: NJ | If yer gonna' design a guitar for the "Working Musician", how about putting in a preamp that actually f@ckin'WORKS.
th'LastCouple have been absolutely Atrocious . . . |
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Location: Cicero, NY | stephent28 - 2015-04-27 7:48 PM
Sure ya are Wease. You can bring it to the next suspect gathering.
Oh wait....
Better yet, I'll bring it to the Factory Gathering for you. Oh wait... |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | cliff d. - 2015-04-28 5:00 PM
If yer gonna' design a guitar for the "Working Musician", how about putting in a preamp that actually f@ckin'WORKS.
th'LastCouple have been absolutely Atrocious . . .
Apart from the have-to-plug-in-to-use-the-tuner design error, my three VIPs have been flawless. What's gone wrong with yours? |
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Location: NJ | Koa "BlowHole" 12-Fret:
3 VIP's
Intermittently "CuttingOut".
I'm now on my 2nd OpPro Studio.
They're ALL "Nice PreAmps", but not effectively "RoadWorthy".
I continually play 4-Hour Gigs 2-3 Times a Week (sometimes more).
I'm contemplating going Direct-Out to an Out-Board Unit.
I've got a '76 CustomBalladeer with the original FET-3.
I can't remove the Unit from th'Guitar, because the MountingScrews are rusted-solid from MySweat from Playing since I bought th'Guitar(NEW),
which is just as well since the only way I could "Kill" that PreAmp would be to run-it-over with My friggin'Car (and even THEN, I'd probably have to "BacKOver" it again to Finish th'Job . . . .
Edited by cliff 2015-04-28 9:01 AM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Well this was good, we got Cliff back out for a bit. The plug in to see the tuner, real stupid move there, but I still prefer the OP24 although the one I have on the 2080D works pretty well. Then again I did have the 5 presets reprogrammed to be from that guitar with a different mic each time.
Everyone has a different idea on what the guitar should be, I don't care, just offer it with 1 3/4. Other than that make it really good sounding and make it something that is easy for DW to hit a home run on the first offering. They need that to start strong. |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | I've often thought about a "modern" 1538.
Layered headstock/buttplate and incuse epis, like my C2078, but symmetrical like the 1537/38.
Oh, and in a sweet Ovation burst, or natural or honey like the anniversary model.
I'd pay a lot for that... |
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Location: Indiana | I'm with Beal on the OP24. Still a great, battery-sippin' pre. |
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Location: SoCal | I'm happy with an OP Pro, but then it's mostly just an updated OP 24...... |
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I mostly alternate between the VIP and Studio in my Koa. Haven't had the problems Cliff has, but don't play anywhere near as much.
On the other hand, the Optima in my 1581 and OP-24 in my '87 are both 20-30 years old and still going strong!
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | OP-24 is simple and the batteries last forever.
As to colors, New England Burst is the shiite.
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Location: Jet City | My OpPro Studio is WAY HOTTER than the rest of my preamps which is a bad thing actually. I always have to adjust settings on the rig when I plug that guitar in. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | OP24 is my favorite but that OP50 you put in that black Legend you sold me is pretty spectacular too. As a matter of fact I was just playing with a 1982 Custom Legend in black that a guy brought down from Rapid City to show me and he had sent it back to the factory to get an OP50 installed. While it was there they buffed out any scratches and basically gave it a full spa treatment. It looks brand new. I'm trying to talk him into selling it to me.  |
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Location: SoCal | For the electric crazies (praise, not negative), and my inspiration from the 1984C, has anyone considered (not an OFC guitar but a suggested limited run, later production model) of a super shallow bowl, appropriate pro-level electronics (not my background), single cutaway, f holes, and an arch top?? YES, an arch top!
To bring back the similar designs of the Les Paul and Strat (solid body) would just be lost against the store's Fender and Gibson's imposed inventory. Taylor and Ovation came out with a hybrid acoustic and electric but this would be a true electric. I suppose you could create a pre-amp where you dialed in an acoustic sound but that would be additional costs, poor acoustic, and extended development. |
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Location: Jet City | Really, with the GK3 installed, the piezo isn't necessary. The Roland will get as good if not better acoustic tone. So 3 pickups... A UK3 (which if YOU MUST compare would be more Tele shaped, but is still different). Carved or arched like the original UKII would be a nice touch too. Or maybe something neckthru like my Odyssey... 
I do like the SSB idea though.
Edited by Damon67 2015-04-28 7:30 PM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Nice ideas, not going to happen. Need something that screams Ovation from across the showroom. Needs to be something that they can sell a ton of right away, be successful on the first swing of the bat. Is there an echo in here? Hello?? .?? |
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Location: Jet City | damon67 - 2015-04-27 9:17 PM Pardon me for dreaming for a moment.... I know it ain't gonna happen with electrics again... pipe dreams... emphasis on the pipe I still like the idea of an SSB. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | cwk2 - 2015-04-28 7:35 PM
Nice ideas, not going to happen. Need something that screams Ovation from across the showroom. Needs to be something that they can sell a ton of right away, be successful on the first swing of the bat. Is there an echo in here? Hello?? .??
High end, mid-range, or low end????
If Adamii would be too expensive to make right off the bat, and let's not go to Applause or Celebrity status, then the one that would SCREAM OVATION across a room would be a Custom Legend with some re-introductory bling!
Just my .02, but the Custom Legend out shines, catches your eye, more than anything else in a room, or on a stage. (I just want another Custom Legend!!! LOL!!!)
Edited by Nancy 2015-04-28 8:05 PM
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Location: SoCal | I am all for screaming without an amplifier needed. Unique, innovated, quality, acoustic or a/e to me is a U.S. made Ovation.
In addition to screaming, the models need to separate U.S. production from off-shore models at 1st glance.
If and when the Ovation arises like the myth of the Phoenix with stable production and good penetration in the market, possible that an electric that plays well and looks like an Ovation could be considered...at least it would have space on the wall of electrics in a store. Not advocating the Viper, Breadwinner, GS, GP, Storm series, etc., although I have some of them but I feel it would diminish an initial updated product line. Just understanding some on the board are electric advocates and IMHO there have been little improvements from guitars by major companies...it seems Gibson (Les Paul and 335), Fender (Strat), Gretsch (Chet Atkins), etc., are content to reissue guitars while off-shore floods us with knock offs.
It will be interesting how the current (last decade) line of Ovations can scream other than changing the 'yuck' newest logo. I will await others that effort. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | I still like the suggestion of creating a NEW Model and naming it The Phoenix!
Teens and adults alike love the lore and meaning of the Phoenix, and in essence, that's exactly what DW is going to do with Ovation.
It could be made similar to what used to be made in the acoustic line, so that the existing equipment could be used to create it, but different enough to show the Phoenix rising from the ashes with new plumes and renewed vigor. I wax poetic, but it would appeal to a large demographic, save time and money by using existing resources, but have that "New" look. (Nothing sparkly though please, unless it is red...  . )
Addendum - new thought ( I know, jot the date down...) on the Ovation Facebook page, there is a white guitar with light sparkles on the white background. Everyone commenting loved it! What if the new guitar was natural wood, but with the lightest clear coat with minimal very small glitter on it. There is nothing like that out there, and if it was done tastefully, would not be obnoxious, but would really catch the eye and attention. The Adamas' have glitter on them, and they look Fantastic!
I need to go to bed, I am coming up with stranger things all the time, too much sun today...
Edited by Nancy 2015-04-28 8:41 PM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | The best 335 made today is the Collings SoCo16LC. I got mine with a 1 3/4 nut, big surprise. My I35 should be done in a few weeks. Then the two I have with 1 11/16 will be for sale
Yeah, a legend/custom legend cutaway something would probably work, maybe something to honor Glen? With a big nut option even though not everyone likes them. I tried to figure out an easier way to say that but not very hard or long. |
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Location: SoCal | I think the 'big nut' 1 3/4 would be fine for most.
I am aware that the neck was advertised as an easy transition for electric players but I don't know if the standard neck is necessary.
I also feel that the fact that Ovation has a reputation for finish cracks should be addressed whether by marketing, design (finish, bowl, bracing, etc.). |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Finish cracks were back in re 70s I thought
I think Phoenix has been used multiple times in the industry. How about Phuckner? Just a thought... |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | My '82 Legend developed finish cracks (low humidity, not a problem any more). I think the Legend screams Ovation. I also like the original idea of trying to keep the price under $2,500, but it needs to stand out from old Ovations and be clearly not an Asian-made guitar. Re-do the flag Legend?
I was going to say that would say "US-made" but then I think of all the Chinese made Australian flags that are sold for Australia Day. |
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Location: Indiana |
Yeah, a legend/custom legend cutaway something would probably work, maybe something to honor Glen? With a big nut option even though not everyone likes them. I tried to figure out an easier way to say that but not very hard or long.
Yes
Edited by Jonmark Stone 2015-04-28 11:43 PM
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Location: SoCal | re Bill: Finish cracks were back in re 70s I thought
I think Phoenix has been used multiple times in the industry. How about Phuckner? Just a thought...
Well, Budny and crew are having to repair a number. Phuckner, I have the visualization of a single finger on the headstock |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Tony Calman - 2015-04-28 11:57 PM
Well, Budny and crew are having to repair a number. Phuckner, I have the visualization of a single finger on the headstock
LMBO!!!!!! Now THAT would stand out across the room! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
(My apologies for the embarrassing glitter post, I need to ban myself from typing once I start getting tired!
I would love to see the Edit button not be timed, it could save some mental anguish and embarrassment! ) |
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Location: SoCal | Just watched a Facebook page showing the D'Addario Clip-On Headstock Tuner...made me think (dangerous without coffee).
Granted, some of our pre-amps have tuners but has anyone had to fiddle with a Clip-On Headstock Tuner barely able to make contact with the headstock (due to the 'paddle' headstock)?
In addition, sometimes the 'wing' or 'ear' gets broken. Expensive repair and often easy to see that a repair was done (at least when looking at the back of the neck).
I have a 97C, non gloss that was delivered without this disclosure. Fortunately, oiled finish v. gloss on the neck so I could take the other side off...a little sanding and oil to even it off, no problem as oil matches the finish on the rest of the neck. In fact I have shown the guitar to a couple of OFC'ers and they didn't notice the change to the headstock.
Maybe the headstock needs to be considered (possibly smaller 'wings' or not at all but leaving the curved top), as well as changing the newest logo.
Edited by Tony Calman 2015-04-29 12:57 PM
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Location: SoCal | Clip it on to a tuning button. Works real well...... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I have a Snark and it works fine. I just have to put it on the side a little. I'll have to try the tuner button. I also just got a Korg, but haven't tried it yet. No way I'd go for changing the iconic headstock. That's been the one thing that made the Ovation stand out from across the music store or from the audience. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I agree, Mark! I have never had any trouble clipping my Snark onto the peghead. That peghead design IS Ovation and should never be changed!! And besides, if people think they might have trouble clipping a tuner on they will be more likely to buy one with a built-in tuner. (Not that I've ever found a built-in tuner that was as accurate as a Snark.)
Hmmm...maybe DW can work out some kind of deal with Snark and have them make a built-in Snark, solely for Ovations. |
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Location: SoCal | How about including the male portion of Dunlop strap locks so we don't have to buy a set to use... |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | CanterburyStrings - 2015-04-29 3:01 PM
I agree, Mark! I have never had any trouble clipping my Snark onto the peghead. That peghead design IS Ovation and should never be changed!! And besides, if people think they might have trouble clipping a tuner on they will be more likely to buy one with a built-in tuner. (Not that I've ever found a built-in tuner that was as accurate as a Snark.)
Hmmm...maybe DW can work out some kind of deal with Snark and have them make a built-in Snark, solely for Ovations.
I Love my Snark too! I tested it against the built in tuner on the C2079AX the other day, I tuned the strings with the Snark (it is fun to say too!), and then tested them with the built in tuner. At least on that guitar, it was right on the money. But I know that is not always the case either. A built in Snark would be Great! Great Idea CS!! |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Tony Calman - 2015-04-30 8:39 AM
How about including the male portion of Dunlop strap locks so we don't have to buy a set to use...
What a simple and cheap way to increase customer satisfaction! |
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Location: NJ | so far I have not taken one deposit...... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Talk is cheap, who is really willing to buy? Probably in the 2-3000 range? (Hey I have no inside line to DW, I'm just making an educated guess but what do I know? I just used to run a gas station for airplanes) |
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Location: Tennessee | I'm ready and willing. Al, I'll send a deposit check. Let me know how much.
I figured it would need to be around $2500. That's what a new D18 sells for on the street, so I figured a modest US Ovation would need to be that much, especially considering a woodtop Ovation is still listed on the Ovation website at over five large.
FWIW, the guitar that people seem to be spec'ing out sounds a lot like my JL3.
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | cwk2 - 2015-04-29 8:08 PM
Talk is cheap, who is really willing to buy? Probably in the 2-3000 range? (Hey I have no inside line to DW, I'm just making an educated guess but what do I know? I just used to run a gas station for airplanes)
Can we get an *approximate* time frame for ordering/deposit collection, so we can try to get the money together? My disposable income depends on selling some of my other Collection. I do not want to commit if I can't get the money together in time, a pre-order commitment date, would be really nice.
And.... Did you raise the prices of airplanes gas on weekends and holidays like they do for cars????
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Location: SoCal | Well, it would be nice to know if we would be buying a 2x4 with two p/u's attached by wood screws or an actual guitar. Course, it is recognized that what, if, and when a limited run could even be ordered is yet to be determined.
After all, DW is not going through all of the work bringing Ovation back just for a limited run for us...their primary goal is to create guitars that result in orders from dealers and subsequent sales resulting in more orders. I had previously projected about $2,500 but Beal's $2,000-3,000 probably gives a little leeway.
This discussion is positive and fun even if it appears to be crazy by crazies. If someone shifted through it, there are probably a few good ideas. Course, it is possible that someone could start to understand that whatever the product, not everyone can afford it or completely agree with the final guitar.
As we did for the OFC 1 and 2, we had to have faith that Al would be able to deliver a remarkable guitar which he did. I am sure he will let us know when it is the right time for DW, what it will be, when he has to make a commitment, and when he needs a deposit to show our commitment (as well as the size of the order).
The fact that he still has a couple of Koa slotheads [2078LXFKOA-OSG] from 2006-2007 is hard to understand. Maybe if the model number was shorter he would have sold them by now. Sad that he had to carry the cost for eight years.
I say keep any and all comments coming...there will probably be some good ideas under all of the bird poop.
Edited by Tony Calman 2015-04-29 8:52 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | My most expensive guitar was around $1600. An Adamas.
I have some extremely nice Ovations that cost in the $400 - $600 range...
So I doubt that I will be shelling-out $2K-$3K for any guitar... (period)
Just sayin'  |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Prices were never raise I weekends everyone was given the discount they earned. Except buffet he came in for a demo spoo raiser and got Charged full retail for his 700 gallons. he probably should have got a ,40% off the list price but since he was a demo speaking at the airport to my employees he needed special treatment,so being the boss it fell time to give it to him. Somebody had to...
I still never like his tunes
Edited by Beal 2015-04-29 11:01 PM
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Location: Tennessee | It seems as if your voice to text genie has been drinking tonight, Beal.
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Location: NJ | hey I would be glad to sell off some of the current inventory I have in stock...... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | stonebobbo - 2015-04-29 10:01 PM
It seems as if your voice to text genie has been drinking tonight, Beal.
Is that what it was? I thought I'd read it again after last night's beer wore off, but I still don't get it this morning. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | yeah, siri was hammered again, bitch. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I can relate. Siri and I got in a fight the other night. I was trying to find the shortest way home and she couldn't find our new address. When I pulled in the garage, I asked for my current location and she gave me the neighbor's address. Our house has been there for 12 years. I yelled that she was wrong and called her a dumb bitch. We haven't spoken since. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | LMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Mark, at your age you should know better than to ask a woman for directions.
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | Waskel@Work - 2015-04-30 12:22 PM
Mark, at your age you should know better than to ask a woman for directions.
Actually, I was amazed that a man *would* ask for directions! LOL!!! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | They are just like judges--they always want to tell you what to do, but can't tell you how to do it. When I told my wife about it, she asked why I didn't just use the GPS on my phone. Then she refused to believe that phone GPS and Siri's were the same. Last night I had to show her how to use the remote again. I wish women would refuse to ask directions, or at least pay attention to the directions that are given. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Mark in Boise - 2015-04-30 1:26 PM
I wish women would refuse to ask directions, or at least pay attention to the directions that are given.
Whenever I "wished" for something my mother used to tell me "There are people in jail wishing they were out but they're not getting their wish either. Now go clean your room." So I wouldn't hold your breath on yours, Mark.
Probably the best advice I was ever given too.
Edited by Weaser P 2015-04-30 2:03 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | I wonder if Siri knows any good lawyer jokes? |
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Location: south east Michigan | Maybe not really a lawyer joke But I'd like to be in the same room when Mark tells his wife that she should... and I quote ... " at leaast pay attention to the directions that are given" Oh yeah... good times. |
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Location: SoCal | Still wonder if you could mold the top to create an archtop, X brace, lined 'f' holes, fiber on underside if needed for strength, floating bridge, etc., to SCREAM Ovation. Heck you could turn a bowl over (or similar) to be the mold of the top using moisture and pressure. |
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Location: Tennessee | Yeah, nothing screams Ovation quite like an archtop. Are you serious? |
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Location: SoCal | Well, Charles probably would have played one if he had joined the Tommy Dorsey band and it could be a good acoustic and a good electric combination. Toss in a set of flat strings...a ltd run would show if it had potential.
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Location: 6 String Ranch | We did some proto arch tops at the beginning of adamas. Didn't work too well. |
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | Tony Calman - 2015-05-01 9:40 AM
Still wonder if you could mold the top to create an archtop, X brace, lined 'f' holes, fiber on underside if needed for strength, floating bridge, etc., to SCREAM Ovation. Heck you could turn a bowl over (or similar) to be the mold of the top using moisture and pressure. 
You all have probably seen this before, but this is a Celebrity archtop...if it's gonna be an archtop, it'll have to be better than this...I think, but then I like the design of the iDea! Whadda I know! But for an OFC3? No thanks. Just sayin'... |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | It only it was a little more red |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | SWMBO is pretty deaf, so I can tell her lots of things. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Especially when she's in the next room |
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Location: Flahdaw | I actually really LIKE the looks of that Celebrity archtop |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | darkbarguitar - 2015-05-03 5:40 AM
I actually really LIKE the looks of that Celebrity archtop
Yeah but that's only because you probably have a matching shirt. |
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Location: Flahdaw | CanterburyStrings - 2015-05-02 11:02 AM
darkbarguitar - 2015-05-03 5:40 AM
I actually really LIKE the looks of that Celebrity archtop
Yeah but that's only because you probably have a matching shirt.
No way! It would clash with my thong. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | TMI |
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Location: Colorado | Back to the pre-amp...because someone asked about what the folks who do this a lot need or think....I did a lot of pit work...It always has to work...always. It must be quiet...dead quiet. It has to sound great and accurate. If I needed a different sound...I used a different guitar...if you need nylon sounds - use a nylon...not faux nylon through presets. Adjustments during performance need to be easy and fast...it also should not take months to figure out how to use it...heck I even put an OP 24 in my OSH...I know sacrelig...but the old two knobber stereo was a bit wonky at times...stereo guitars don't happen much if part of an ensemble, a tuner is nice...but there are lots of options if it doesn't have one....not a deal breaker either way...either needs great and accurate battery life...or ease of changing. Amazingly one annoyance (on any brand pre-amp)..can be the volume pot or fader...gotta be quiet...pots tend to be quieter than faders....in the orchestra pits...you will always see in the rhythm section cans of Cramolin....Broadway producers hate crackles and pops. That is my perspective...Cliff...what is needed on the solo/duo front....btw...sold the purple Karmann Ghia....gotta 1965 rag top Mustang now....Beal...was yer dad making guitars in 65? another btw...this is for live playing...recording ...different set of rules...most engineers prefer the live sound of guitars from their 10K mics...to be able as Brad Davis puts it...get the fairy dust in the sound. No Things here. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | No |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Prototypes only |
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | elginacres - 2015-05-02 4:59 AM
Amazingly one annoyance (on any brand pre-amp)..can be the volume pot or fader...gotta be quiet...pots tend to be quieter than faders....in the orchestra pits...you will always see in the rhythm section cans of Cramolin....Broadway producers hate crackles and pops.
I played my '94 1861 Standard Balladeer last night. It uses the old "thinline" pre-amp with gain, bass and treble sliders...no knobs, no tuners, super simple. I played through the main PA using a DOD 265 DI box. The signal was absolutely pure and clean. Certainly not as robust as an OP Pro, but it does capture the beautiful acoustic sound of my 1861 accurately without noise, hiss or scratches (had a scratch problem once, due to poor contact between the bridge saddle/piezo). Despite the age of the technology, I still find it quite impressive.
It must be a pain to have to use Cramolin in an orchestra pit! People recommend De-Oxit, which is something I can't get in Japan ($$$), so I use a similar product called Fernandez 999s, but maintenance on these pre-amps will lengthen their useful life in spades.
IMHO Os have been endowed with excellent pre-amps throughout their history. Do you (elginacres) think DW needs to develop a new pre-amp for their upcoming line of guitars? |
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Location: Colorado | Arumako...no...I don't think DW needs to reinvent the pre-amp...maybe a few better components if they are available today...maybe something with a tad more air...but some of the older stuff was great. To you Facebookers...Davey Johnstone was playing his Adamas in concert with Elton last week...no real frills on the set-up...I find some of the electronics on newer Taks (last 8 years or so) are great...and some have no volume - no tone control...just a 1/4 out. I find that set-up with perhaps an old Countryman DI works great....in most pro set -ups - you don't need a lot of gain....the system will take care of that...keep the sound good and predictable...sounds like your setup works for you...I am also assuming you are not driving a butt-load of pedals...where you might need a lot of signal...for me - volume - and a little tone control are fine... |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The volume and tone coming out of a second generation Tak Cool Tube preamp is, in my experience, beyond anything Ovation put out. Combined with the Triax dynamic aux sound hole pickup and a Tak DI box, plus reverb and chorus pedals, the tonal possibilities cannot, in my mind, be beat. I prefer my custom SSB Adamas for most stage work, primarily because of the comfort factor, but the sound of the Tak setup is superior. As always, sound preference is subjective and YMMV. |
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Location: Colorado | Prof...I was wonderin' when your love for SSBs would show up in this thread...ditto on the cool tube prof....nice sound....certainly flexible too...probably the best air in any pickup and pre-amp today that I've heard....you see a lot on the road with the pros...so they must be pretty dependable too. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Mark, you and Brad should continue this conversation over a couple of beers while listening to my band Liquor Biscuit this Saturday night. Music from the 60's and 70's. |
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | elginacres - 2015-05-04 10:18 AM
...sounds like your setup works for you...I am also assuming you are not driving a butt-load of pedals...where you might need a lot of signal...for me - volume - and a little tone control are fine...
Yup...need to keep things simple. I try to stay away from pre-amps with lots of IC chips (except my iDea because of the mp3 recording function), and effects pedals as much as possible. They do tend to make things unpredictable. Sometimes I do use a stereo splitter, and go into an amp and mains at the same time. I've found that keeping the tone flat on my Os works best (most of the time).
boltonb - 2015-05-04 10:33 AM
The volume and tone coming out of a second generation Tak Cool Tube preamp is, in my experience, beyond anything Ovation put out. Combined with the Triax dynamic aux sound hole pickup and a Tak DI box, plus reverb and chorus pedals, the tonal possibilities cannot, in my mind, be beat.
That really is a killer combination. IMHO, right up there with the OP Pro using the XLR (a bit of O bias there perhaps). It's ashamed that the Tak unit is too big for an SSB. Maybe DW can design a similar tube pre-amp with a footprint that accommodates the Os bowl back, and a "triax-like" system that can be used on Elites and Legends alike?!
Now, I'm talking way out of my price range, but I bet that would get the attention of a few folks in the industry!
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Location: Jet City | I don't have a Takamine currently, but I have. I'm totally biased on O's, but I agree with the Professor on all counts (except, I only have wood topped SSBs)
I've had a couple of Cool tube setups with the triax and they blow away ANYTHING that's been in a roundback, ever, period.
Unfortunately for me, the Tak doesn't feel right when I'm playing one. I haven't tried the newer models, but I can't imagine they'd compare the the TAN 16 and various Nashville series ones I've had.
Ovations just feel right when I'm playing them. Everything is easier, especially with the SSB.
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Location: Flahdaw | It's the neck. If Taks had an Ovation neck, then they'd be super sweet. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | High end Laravee's have impressive electronics too. |
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Location: SoCal | Elvin Perry-Takamine Guitars
Follow · March 29 ·
More on Takamine Necks. The neck profile of the Takamine is offset like an asymmetrical letter "C", so that it fits the natural shape of the hand. Improves playability by reducing the distance the wrist must move when the thumb is moved toward the first string, resulting in a comfortable feel and an exceptional playing experience. Can you feel it...It was good for me...lol
Edited by Tony Calman 2015-05-05 5:06 PM
 (TAK_NECK.jpg)
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Gurians had that asymetrical neck too. |
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Location: Jet City | CanterburyStrings - 2015-05-05 2:35 PM High end Laravee's have impressive electronics too. My LV10 sounds better plugged in than any of my O's too. It has a blending system with a transducer instead of the magnetic like the Tak. The neck is better than any other wood box I've had too. |
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Location: Jet City | Tony, that picture says it all. You've got an image of someone holding the neck in a blues style fashion. I do a hybrid combination of both, but for the most part, I hold the neck classical style. This could be one of the reasons for my discomfort.
"resulting in a comfortable feel and an exceptional playing experience"
YMMV |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I swear I've seen that pic above as a demo of how to NOT hold a neck, or referred to as the "death grip". I don't know from Classical Style or Blues Style, but I always figured if more than the pad of my thumb was touching the back of the neck, I was doing something wrong. I guess there is no "wrong" but It seems I have just realized that. Very interesting. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Damon, you still got a TriAxe? |
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Location: Flahdaw | cwk2 - 2015-05-06 7:31 PM
Damon, you still got a TriAxe?
Are you kidding? He still has a Big Wheel and a Slinky |
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Location: Jet City | Nope. It's on the SBG that my buddy in Denver now has.
I do still have a Tak DI floating around here. |
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Location: Colorado | Hmmm...Mike Markure ...you reading this....Cool Tube 2nd gen....with aux input blender...will Tak play with DW?
Stephen - I gotta work sat night - but how late you going.....northglenn right? |
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | damon67 - 2015-05-05 5:26 AM
I've had a couple of Cool tube setups with the triax and they blow away ANYTHING that's been in a roundback, ever, period.
WOW! That good? The consensus seems to be unanimous too. I've never owned one, but the one's I've heard were not nearly that good...must've been setup issues? A re-visit is definitely in order here...great thread! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Mark, 9-1 but I wouldn't try to come out if it's late. We are starting to play more and more so it won't be long before you can see us almost any week. I don't think you have seen the current band. I love this one and the music we play.
Shameless plug: www.liquorbiscuitband.com |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Arumako, be sure you are listening to a Tak model with the CoolTube II. As of about six years ago, these appear only on the top shelf pro models. After Mark Markure left Takamine, I lost my contact so I don't know what is current. The TLD (Takamine Line Driver) is a very clean no-fuss preamp without any controls. It came on the EF-75 Brazilian and is excellent, but it doesn't have the power or variable tones that the CoolTube has. I need to get active again on Dave's Takamine website and get caught up. |
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Location: Colorado | T28...I give it 60-40 I may come |
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| Are any of you using garage band, pro tools or any other usb interface? |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I use garage band a little bit (haven't done much with recording), but not using USB. Would be nice to have a USB outlet on the guitar. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I use Cubase 8.
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | I use Audacity (http://web.audacityteam.org/) and record direct off my mixing desk via USB.
It works OK for me, but I'm not doing pro-level recordings.
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Location: Jet City | xraiderman - 2015-05-07 8:02 PM Are any of you using garage band, pro tools or any other usb interface? I use Logic for my DAW (software) And a Tascam firewire interface (hardware)... 
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Location: Yokohama, Japan | boltonb - 2015-05-07 2:29 AM
Arumako, be sure you are listening to a Tak model with the CoolTube II. As of about six years ago, these appear only on the top shelf pro models. After Mark Markure left Takamine, I lost my contact so I don't know what is current. The TLD (Takamine Line Driver) is a very clean no-fuss preamp without any controls. It came on the EF-75 Brazilian and is excellent, but it doesn't have the power or variable tones that the CoolTube has. I need to get active again on Dave's Takamine website and get caught up.
Thanks for the info ProfessorBB! Although I've known a lot of Tak players, I've never owned one, and haven't had much experience with them. I've worked a bit with the Tak DSP-120 (beautiful instrument) which had the CTP-1, and have only heard the CTP-2 mounted on a TF360 (I think the pre-amp was upgraded from a CPT-1, but it didn't have the Triax installed). I watched Brad Davis' CPT-2 w/ Triax demo on YouTube after reading your post and can't wait to hear one of those "Live!"
I was really surprised that the system seemed to be relatively affordable, perhaps a tad more than the OP Pro Studio, but it certainly seems to be worth every penny! Thanks for the heads-up! |
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Location: Utah | richard.parker - 2015-04-27 3:26 PM
I'm thinking the working man's guitar would be an A-braced deep bowl legend 1617 with modern electronics (Op-Pro Studio?). The sprucing up could include a hand-laid bowl, adamas suspended top and maybe some unique stain to the wood so it really stands out from the crowd. This would keep the costs down while making it special. And make some wide necks, for those of us who like big nuts.
I'm in for one of those. Prefer a Nutmeg-ish finish. An LX neck would be welcome as it is the current technology (at least for the USA guitars). |
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Location: south east Michigan | My guess us that a hand laid bowl will not keep the costs down in any way. It attracts "us" but would not be understood or appreciated by all the new customers DW will have to reach. I'd think DW would be better off putting the effort into and attractive top & neck.
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A-braced and modern electronics is great.
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Brad Durasa - 2015-05-10 12:27 AM
My guess us that a hand laid bowl will not keep the costs down in any way. It attracts "us" but would not be understood or appreciated by all the new customers DW will have to reach. I'd think DW would be better off putting the effort into and attractive top & neck.
.
A-braced and modern electronics is great.
The thread was about an OFC 3 special order, not a full production order. You're right, most people won't appreciate the hand laid bowl, but we would. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I stand corrected.
After 6 pages things can get a little fuzzy. |
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Location: SoCal | OK, so at this point we're looking at a deep hand laid bowl with modern electronics, a wide neck (1 3/4", Legend configuration, A braced top, and what else?
Sounds like a Lennon to me but with an Op Pro and a wide neck.
I would suggest two things. First, an Adirondack spruce top (for warmth), and second, the old style, larger inlays.
And keep the price at about $2500.
I'm in...... |
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Location: Indiana | And the full size skunk stripe would be nice. Course, I'm still partial to the K-bar, too.... |
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Location: NJ | Replicate th'Guitar that MasterTempleman had custom-built a few years ago . . .
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Location: SoCal | cliff d. - 2015-05-09 9:29 AM
Replicate th'Guitar that MasterTempleman had custom-built a few years ago . . .
The Custom Legend Folklore? Nah, more like a wide neck Lennon....
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Location: Utah | The first run will likely best be a single configuration rather than having options such as different colors or neck width. It should make a strong nod to the history of the brand, while offering something new. Since the brand was built on innovation, the something new should be other than cosmetic. It could be as simple as using the suspension ring on a wood top or Ratio tuning machines, or as cool as feather light carbon fiber bracing. Just rebuilding a model from nearly 40 years ago is not going to be spectacular marketing.
Going forward, I think the future is in customizable standard products. Using the power of the internet, a customer could opt to personalize his guitar. Ovation made a weak attempt with the custom shop website showing some of the options, but then didn't follow through with allowing an order to be placed online right there. Let a customer select bowl, top, finish, epaulette style, electronics, and inlay. Show the prices, and let me Buy It Now. In this day and age, custom fretboard inlay is super easy using computer controlled equipment. Wide or normal width necks, headstock style, and neck woods can all be customized easily. Each guitar can have a build sheet following it through production to tell the luthier which type bridge to attach or what neck finish to apply. There would have to be an upcharge for this customizing, but if the options are all standard features the added cost is minimal.
Offer some high end options such as Plek setup, bone nuts, EVO Gold fretwire, hand laid bowl, etc.
Meanwhile a number of standard models can be built on a more mass production pipeline. These would be available on the wall at your local guitar store for those who need to walk away with something nice right now.
Looking at other major established guitar brands, what do they have to offer that is new? Only different woods or finishes. They are not known as innovators, just for making pretty looking and nice sounding guitars. Ovation's legacy is innovation. I think there is much room to innovate still. Push the environmentally friendly aspects to lure in younger buyers. Use "figured ebony" on the fretboards, and market the environmental and social benefits of it.
Edited by FlySig 2015-05-09 12:16 PM
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | FlySig - 2015-05-09 10:14 AM
The first run will likely best be a single configuration rather than having options such as different colors or neck width. It should make a strong nod to the history of the brand, while offering something new. Since the brand was built on innovation, the something new should be other than cosmetic. It could be as simple as using the suspension ring on a wood top or Ratio tuning machines, or as cool as feather light carbon fiber bracing. Just rebuilding a model from nearly 40 years ago is not going to be spectacular marketing.
Going forward, I think the future is in customizable standard products. Using the power of the internet, a customer could opt to personalize his guitar. Ovation made a weak attempt with the custom shop website showing some of the options, but then didn't follow through with allowing an order to be placed online right there. Let a customer select bowl, top, finish, epaulette style, electronics, and inlay. Show the prices, and let me Buy It Now. In this day and age, custom fretboard inlay is super easy using computer controlled equipment. Wide or normal width necks, headstock style, and neck woods can all be customized easily. Each guitar can have a build sheet following it through production to tell the luthier which type bridge to attach or what neck finish to apply. There would have to be an upcharge for this customizing, but if the options are all standard features the added cost is minimal.
Offer some high end options such as Plek setup, bone nuts, EVO Gold fretwire, hand laid bowl, etc.
Good thinking. This is not unlike the customizable options available when ordering a new car. |
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Location: Tennessee | It'll cost more to develop the website than they'll make on selling those guitars. All the othe guitar makers I know who've tried that have given up on their attempt.
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | True. Trying to do it without the requisite skills would be an exercise in frustration.
Developing a web site to present available options isn't really all that difficult or time-consuming if you have a web developer who already has those skills.
I've built several sites that do this kind of work in as little as a couple of weeks.
It would take someone with back-end and front-end programming experience to build the site and provide a way to route the custom orders to the production line.
Once the system is in place, the production line staff would just fill the orders as they come in. |
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Location: Tennessee | I didn't mean that they've given up on building a website offering. That's the easy part and an investment of 20K will get it done. The problem is that people build their dream guitar and are shocked when it comes in at 3X what they can spend, and leave disappointed. And they set an expectation in their own mind that a production model will never satisfy. There might be a handful of people that actually go through an order, but 99% of your potential customers wind up going somewhere else. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Go somewhere else..... with a bad taste in their mouth for Ovation..
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Like the old saying says... Dance with what brung ya.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-05-09 3:22 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | DanSavage - 2015-05-09 12:53 PM
FlySig - 2015-05-09 10:14 AM
The first run will likely best be a single configuration rather than having options such as different colors or neck width. It should make a strong nod to the history of the brand, while offering something new. Since the brand was built on innovation, the something new should be other than cosmetic. It could be as simple as using the suspension ring on a wood top or Ratio tuning machines, or as cool as feather light carbon fiber bracing. Just rebuilding a model from nearly 40 years ago is not going to be spectacular marketing.
Going forward, I think the future is in customizable standard products. Using the power of the internet, a customer could opt to personalize his guitar. Ovation made a weak attempt with the custom shop website showing some of the options, but then didn't follow through with allowing an order to be placed online right there. Let a customer select bowl, top, finish, epaulette style, electronics, and inlay. Show the prices, and let me Buy It Now. In this day and age, custom fretboard inlay is super easy using computer controlled equipment. Wide or normal width necks, headstock style, and neck woods can all be customized easily. Each guitar can have a build sheet following it through production to tell the luthier which type bridge to attach or what neck finish to apply. There would have to be an upcharge for this customizing, but if the options are all standard features the added cost is minimal.
Offer some high end options such as Plek setup, bone nuts, EVO Gold fretwire, hand laid bowl, etc.
Good thinking. This is not unlike the customizable options available when ordering a new car.
I like this idea too! Don't discount that allot of these young people are driving nicer cars than we have - $500 - $3000 tennis shoes, and have unlimited access to Mom's and Dad's CC - it could be a viable and potentially profitable option!
And like ordering a new car, if you click more than you can afford, you go back and pare it down a bit until you still have all you need, and a little extra. It may not be *everything* you wanted, but it is still what *you* picked out, so it seems more Special than just grabbing a car on the lot.
Great Idea FlySig!
Edited by Nancy 2015-05-09 3:29 PM
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Location: Tennessee | Every car site that has "build your own" points you to existing inventory when you're done. I have not seen a single one that has an order this car now button. And in the world I live in, no kid has $3000 shoes or will get their parent's credit card to put a $6000 guitar on. |
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Location: Jet City | It's not a new idea. It's been working for Carvin for years |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | It seems to be working for DW too!
If you go out to their website, and look at the Custom Finish Ideas (under Drums), they already have it well in hand!
VERY Nice choices DW!! And the Custom Woods, Colors and Graphics are Fantastic!!
Edited by Nancy 2015-05-09 5:16 PM
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Location: Utah | We spec'd out two Fords in 2012 on their website, then went to a local dealer because we couldn't Buy It Now from the web. The dealer entered what we had printed out, we signed some paper, and Ford started building the cars. We did experiment with adding and deleting options, looking at price, etc.
No, most buyers probably aren't going to spec out a custom guitar. But I think it is the wave of the future for the younger generation. Have a computer at the guitar store so the customer who has just played a couple of Ovations but wants a different color can order it. Let the dealer collect a $50 premium for the custom order to help offset his costs. |
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Location: SoCal | Ovation was trying to push this idea about 8-10 years ago. They put out a catalog showing different options and said that their custom shop could build anything...... |
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Location: SoCal | There is no need for DW to have the expense of a computer in a number of dealers. Dealers probably have a computer but in the back office for accounting, etc.
Just an app for the dealer's smart phone or his/her tablet could be made available. Or, continue to call their Rep. Frankly, except for the artist relations effort or a limited order, I believe it would be primary to create the production line with a limited line, distribution, marketing/PR, inventory to get the guitars to NAMM, and then to stores.
Initially, Ovation had only a small number of offerings. Balladeer, Deluxe Balladeer, Legend, then Custom Legend, then the Elite. Each had their own price point. Over the last decade or two, too many models.
Although many of us have bought the guitar without actually playing or even seeing it, most new buyers have gone to a guitar store. Store display and inventory are important. Unless the store has inventory for an impulse buy, the prospective buyer will probably purchase on-line leaving the store with the 'new old stock (NOS) hanging on the wall.
Doubt if an individual is going to pay for changes to a guitar with a 'minimum advertised price' (MAP) less than $1,500, even up to $2,400 MAP. Unless the individual is ready to pay for a guitar with a minimum MAP of $2,000 to $3,000, doubt if they will request a custom order.
Authorized dealers have previously had the ability for special/custom orders but I would expect that Al is the leading dealer in special/custom orders (from OFC'ers). Even prior to Fender, Adamas and some Ovations took an up-front deposit and an extended time for delivery (about six months for an Adamas 1688).
If they continued the interchangable 'can', no problem putting in the desired selection. If wider neck (i.e., 1 3/4), probably no problem with minor additional cost. Upgrade or different tuners with minor additional cost, no problem. Bone nut with minor additional cost, no problem.
But when is it a custom order...upgrading a Legend to a Custom Legend? Just buy the Custom Legend.
Low end or midrange buyers are probably not going to customize due to the additional cost and time for slothead instead of a standard headstock, carved bridge, finish color such as the 'flag' guitar or fancy personalized design, upgrade the quality of top or type of wood, frets to the top - i.e., 12 v. 14, binding, etc.
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Location: sitting at my computer | stonebobbo - The problem is that people build their dream guitar and are shocked when it comes in at 3X what they can spend, and leave disappointed. If the price of each add-on is clearly listed during the selection process the final total shouldn't be a shock at all. Unless the person is just really really lousy at simple addition.
Brad Durasa - Go somewhere else..... with a bad taste in their mouth for Ovation. I kinda doubt they'd be able to find an equivalent, custom made guitar for much less (if any) somewhere else. So disappointment will have to eventually give way to reality. Many of us around here have said that Ovations are "best bang for the buck" guitars. Hopefully DW will carry that forward. FlySig - No, most buyers probably aren't going to spec out a custom guitar. But I think it is the wave of the future for the younger generation. I think you're right. ...and not just with guitars, but any premium item that they can afford.
The whole process of marketing, manufacturing, warehousing and fulfillment aren't what they used to be a couple decades ago, imagine what they'll be in another decade... hmmm... Honey, the delivery drone from DW is here with the custom-made Adamas you ordered yesterday. Come wave your iWatch-4 at it to accept the package.   |
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Location: Utah | immoody - 2015-05-09 5:17 PM
Ovation was trying to push this idea about 8-10 years ago. They put out a catalog showing different options and said that their custom shop could build anything......
So I went to their website numerous times to see what I might be able to buy. Some but not much info. Some wrong info. One time I contacted Al with some general questions and the best he could do was have me spec out a guitar and he'd have to send it to the factory for a quote. And turn around time on a custom order was 6 -12 months. I wanted to go online and see options and prices, and maybe even a cool composite photo of what the finished product would look like. If the price was a bit high, I would at least have a specific goal and a dream guitar to try to find a way to buy.
Not many are going to order an expensive pro level custom guitar, but young people these days buy everything online all day long, every day. My daughter sold numerous Ovations in high school and college to friends and classmates who saw her perform with one of her O/As. She also sold several at GC just hanging out with a friend jamming in the acoustic room. Today, those same buyers might well go on the internet after having their interest piqued.
They might even just want a standard model. Let them hit the Buy It Now button, pay with Paypal, and have it shipped to their local authorized dealer who will make sure it is set up right for them and probably sell them some accessories. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | FlySig - 2015-05-10 10:08 AM
...Not many are going to order an expensive pro level custom guitar, but young people these days buy everything online all day long, every day...
...They might even just want a standard model. Let them hit the Buy It Now button, pay with Paypal, and have it shipped to their local authorized dealer who will make sure it is set up right for them and probably sell them some accessories.
That is how I shop - I buy everything on line, pay-pal it, and get all excited for the big box to arrive. There just aren't any guitars shops by me, and I would be limited to what they stocked, or could get, and my driving range is very limited. The internet is how millions shop now (look at Amazon and eBay!)
It is cheaper for the Company, no stores, one inventory location, no salespeople, no benefits to be paid out. You order it online, and a central distribution center boxes it up and ships it out. Very efficient, very streamlined. I am NOT saying that it is the best way - I like meeting people, and asking questions, and seeing what I am buying from a Human Being. I remember walking into Schmidt Music back in the 70's, seeing that beautiful and totally unique Ovation hanging on the wall, trying it out, and *knowing* I had to have it!!! But the times they are a changin', and this is the way it is going.
I don't think I am going to like seeing a kabillion drones flying over-head delivering packages at some point either, but that is the way it is going. Don't be surprised if you hear on tv that someone is out there skeet-shooting those darned, pesky drones, but that is the direction things are moving. Maybe they will be able to teleport items soon too, who knows, technology is moving at lightning speeds anymore.
Perhaps on the Standard Model, or Lower End Custom Models, and online purchasing would be the ticket! And then, if a more Deluxe, or Higher End Model was being ordered, they could deal directly with John, or someone like Al, in a position to tell them what they can or cannot do, give a quote, a timeframe, and take the order. Some people are just going to want a standard production line Model XXXX-X in Lime Green, and that can easily be ordered, and paid for online. A more complex, off the Production Line, Custom you would *want* to talk to someone who knows their guitars, about placing your order. Just my .02 FWIW.
Edited by Nancy 2015-05-10 11:58 AM
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Location: Utah | I think the bedrock of guitar sales has to be in the retail store with knowledgeable sales staff. Especially at the entry or hobbiest level, people want to touch, play, and look at a variety of guitars. Eons ago I went to Rondo Music on Rt 22 in NJ as a 16 yr old having seen Ovation ads in magazines and seen Glen Campbell on tv. When I played the slot head 12 string I knew I had to have it, but alas could not quite afford it. I ended up with an Alvarez-Yairi which I played before buying. My daughter saw the Red Flame 1778T on the wall at GC and fell in love before she even played it. Most guitars are going to be bought this way.
Only based on the reputation of the Ovation/Adamas brand and of Al did I buy several new guitars online from him. I would have had zero reservations spec'ing out a custom order on the O/A website (basically a 47RI in reverse red burst but with a paddle headstock).
I hate the idea of completely cutting out the local Mom & Pop store, and honestly a brand cannot flourish without guitars on the wall for customers to play. Dealer service is key to satisfaction, too. Setting up the guitar for the new owner, offering advice to newbies on the care and feeding of their guitar, and maybe even upselling the customer to the next level of instrument. For the custom order, delivering it via the local dealer whenever possible will improve the customer's final satisfaction.
Edited by FlySig 2015-05-10 12:35 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | FlySig - 2015-05-10 12:32 PM
I think the bedrock of guitar sales has to be in the retail store with knowledgeable sales staff. Especially at the entry or hobbiest level, people want to touch, play, and look at a variety of guitars....
...I hate the idea of completely cutting out the local Mom & Pop store, and honestly a brand cannot flourish without guitars on the wall for customers to play. Dealer service is key to satisfaction, too. Setting up the guitar for the new owner, offering advice to newbies on the care and feeding of their guitar, and maybe even upselling the customer to the next level of instrument...
I agree with you FlySig, I miss going into the stores, and ooohing and ahhhhing at all the gorgeous guitars! That experience is priceless! And walking out the door, proudly carrying your new purchase thinking you were going to be playing like John Denver or Jim Croce in no time at all! (I never had any illusions about playing like Glen Campbell) LOL!!
I am sure that DW already has the ordering and fullfillment down to a science, they would not be where they are without knowing what they are doing. It will be nice once we get to know what is going on, so we don't have to speculate anymore, and can start USING their ordering process, be it at 'Mom's & Pop's Geetar Shop', or On-Line - HINT, HINT Bill!!!! "Soon" is a relative term of time, and in my world, Soon equates with NOW!!! LOL!!!
Edited by Nancy 2015-05-10 1:55 PM
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Online Sucks! (as I type from my computer in my jammies)
The convenience is Great. The worldwide access is great.
But as I read about online marketing my minds sees more unemployed people.
Here in Portland Apple Music Row is closing.
So I won't be able to stop-in and see Chuck there and talk about the ole daze anymore.
The owners are retiring, but I am sure that the current retail market has a lot to do with that.
Otherwise the store would continue under new management.
There will be No replacement for Apple Music once it is gone.
Portland Music used to have a store dedicated to sheet music and lessons, that is gone.
Yeah, I get all of my songs online with chords and tab...
But I do have a bookshelf full of song-books that came from Portland Music.
So if the internet apocalypse comes, I will still have books of sheet music.
When I was young in the 70's in Falmouth, MA there was a store called "The Yellow Orange"
It was a combination Head-shop, Bookstore, and Music Store. also backpacks and macrame.
They had strings and guitars to supply all of the "Heads" in the pot circle in the Library Park.
I bought my first Blues Harp there for about $3 (still cannot play the harp).
I also bought STEAL THIS BOOK there for 97¢.
The Yellow Orange also had rolling paper and those pipes with all the fittings and chamber and such.
Oh yeah, the McGovern campaign office was upstairs.
Just rambling....
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | But I do remember the "Build your own guitar" page from the old website that Moody mentions.
Pick your bowl. Pick your top. Epaulets or Rosette. Pick your headstock. Pick your preamp.
I went searching for a clone of that page from the Wayback Machine http://archive.org/web/ but no luck. 
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Location: Utah | There's a world of difference between ordering a custom spec item online vs buying an item already manufactured from an online retailer. I do my share of online buying, but only when it isn't available locally. It is a Catch-22 for a music instrument seller these days. Have a physical store which raises your costs and you run the risk of customers being lookey-loos who go buy it online from a cheaper internet-only supplier. Don't have a showroom and nobody can test out the product and make a purchase right there. Small shops can't get good pricing from the distributor, so they cannot match online prices from the large warehouses.
I'd advocate for special orders to be delivered via a local authorized dealer. Give the dealer some $ incentive to process these custom orders. But also push hard for plenty of stock on the showroom floor at local dealers. The bread and butter is probably still the customer who makes a decision in the store after playing the guitar.
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Location: closely held secret | arthurseery - 2015-05-10 1:21 PM
When I was young in the 70's in Falmouth, MA there was a store called "The Yellow Orange"
It was a combination Head-shop, Bookstore, and Music Store. also backpacks and macrame.
You just described pretty much every music store in Portland in the 70's. Bummer about Apple, though. Bought my first Ovation there. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | arthurseery - 2015-05-10 3:21 PM
Online Sucks! (as I type from my computer in my jammies)
Arthur, you are just SO CUTE! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | The words Arthur and cute appearing in the same sentence may be a first for these forums. Just sayin'. |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | boltonb - 2015-05-10 6:40 PM
The words Arthur and cute appearing in the same sentence may be a first for these forums. Just sayin'.
LOL!!!! You are Cute Too!!!
(I am still on my Adamii High, Enjoy, I will return to my usual cranky self in a few years! ) |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Haha! The Prof is cute too! |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | richard.parker - 2015-05-10 9:17 PM
Haha! The Prof is cute too!
What are you laughing at TAFKAR? You are cute too, and I'm sure you have that Great Aussie accent!!!
(Ok, I am going to get off now, before I get a vacation for posting while semi-lucid...) |
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Location: Jet City | I've bought loads of USED guitars on the web.
Over the years, I've bought 6 brand new Ovations. 5 were brick and mortar store, 1 was my Adamas from Al (Never saw one in a brick and mortar except for the RoadShow).
My opinion is they gotta be in the stores, and the smaller mom and pop ones should be at the core. Of course you don't rule out the big stores, but to get a real grass roots movement to change the PERCEPTION of the brand, it will take LOTS of training and education. It'll be easier to do this with the smaller stores as they typically have less turn over... actually, there's like zero turnover almost. When I go into a place like Guitar Center, it's a different face nearly every time. It's hard to keep up the education when there's someone new every couple of months. You'd almost need quarterly trainings in those places.
Even though my main guitar for 20 years was an Ovation UKII, when I was looking for an acoustic/electric I had no plans on a roundback. I went into American Music, a small mom and pop store, the sales guy (Johnny, been there forever, still is) said 'put that Seagull down and try this 1778LX"...
I've been hooked every since cuz he understood my style of playing and that it would fit in perfectly with the playability of Ovation.
We need these guys... we gotta educate these guys... get 'em on our side. Really it's not that hard to do once you pry the wood box outta their arms and put a USA model round back in their hands.
We need the people putting them in the hands.
Edited by Damon67 2015-05-11 1:05 PM
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I agree with you 100% Damon. I'm someone who knows Ovations inside and out, and I believe that's why whenever I get a used one in it sellls quickly. When I point out all of the good points and then put it in their hands they are hooked. And as a "Mom" (no Pop) store owner, what I am hoping for is a low enough buy-in that small stores like mine can afford to become authorized Ovation dealers.
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Location: Rego Park, NY, | richard.parker - 2015-05-10 9:17 PM
Haha! The Prof is cute too!
Nancy is relatively new so she hasn't seen the Professor's- "Does this cannon make me look fat?" picture. |
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Location: SoCal | My first Ovation was a 1158 (acoustic dark sunburst 12-string) from a mom & pop store in Gresham, OR. The owner had brought it back from the 1980 NAMM. Took me three trips to decide I had to have it (had been playing a Martin D-18 series 12-str so I had to overcome the 'radical' bowl v. wood box). Next year he brought back a 6-string that I bought.
"low enough buy-in that small stores like mine can afford to become authorized Ovation dealers."
For one, I am more likely to buy a guitar from someone I know and knows me, especially if the guitar is in stock...long time relationships matter as long as they are an Ovation/Adamas and Takamine dealer with inventory or the ability to "drop-ship".
I understand that DW will have no control over Takamine as it is now distributed by a separate company. However, a dealer that would have contracts with DW and Takamine would have a strong inventory with additional revenue from lessons, play books, stands, straps, etc.
What has helped me buy an Ovation/Adamas guitar is that I didn't have to try our 5 guitars of the same model and make to find the one I liked (i.e, Martin). Quality was consistent. |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | Tony Calman - 2015-05-11 12:08 PM
What has helped me buy an Ovation/Adamas guitar is that I didn't have to try our 5 guitars of the same model and make to find the one I liked (i.e, Martin). Quality was consistent.
That's what made me an Ovation man. I know that no matter what model I play, I can expect consistently good sound.
I recently accompanied my youngest daughter to GC to look at, and possibly buy her a guitar. (doesn't like Ovations --yet)
We tried two Epiphones. Both were the exact same model. One sounded really nice. The other, not so nice. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | philwong - 2015-05-11 1:42 PM richard.parker - 2015-05-10 9:17 PM Haha! The Prof is cute too! Nancy is relatively new so she hasn't seen the Professor's- "Does this cannon make me look fat?" picture. I am so busted! |
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Location: SoCal | Just you're turn..... |
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Location: Colorado | I believe the proper spelling would have been Does this cannon make me look phat? |
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Location: Flahdaw | naellis58 - 2015-05-10 6:38 PM
arthurseery - 2015-05-10 3:21 PM
Online Sucks! (as I type from my computer in my jammies)
Arthur, you are just SO CUTE!
Coming from someone who never saw OMA's topless Hotel California video... |
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | darkbarguitar - 2015-05-19 5:17 AM
naellis58 - 2015-05-10 6:38 PM
arthurseery - 2015-05-10 3:21 PM
Online Sucks! (as I type from my computer in my jammies)
Arthur, you are just SO CUTE!
Coming from someone who never saw OMA's topless Hotel California video...
And not so sure I want too....
But I am intrigued by the Cannon picture! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | A very weak moment where I was feeling a bit stronger than I had any right to. Seems so long ago. |
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Location: south east Michigan | So... is someone going to post up the pic? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | same trip but different pic........
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | LMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG that is HILARIOUS!!!!!!!
And you are a dead ringer for my Brother, Don!!!! And... This looks like something he would do too!!!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank You Stephent28, a good giggle is always much appreciated!!!! |
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Location: south east Michigan | Hear that T?.... You look just like Don.
Edited by Slipkid 2015-05-19 4:13 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | That's Brad singing his favorite Herman Hermit hit, "Mrs Brown You've Got a Lovely Hushpuppy"
Edited by BobG 2015-05-19 4:17 PM
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Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | LMBO!!!!!!!!! Good One!!! |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | LOL, Brad.
You wish people would think that was me.
I don't have that much hair. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | That was after Brad had the moonshine |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Is that what Brad had in mind when he said Ovation needs a nice top and neck? |
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Location: Flahdaw | Mark in Boise - 2015-05-19 10:13 PM
Is that what Brad had in mind when he said Ovation needs a nice top and neck?
Yes, and Brad is demonstrating the optional feedback suppressor for the soundhole. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Stand up comics. All of you. |
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Joined:
June 2003
Posts: 1792
Location: Rego Park, NY, | I dont think we want to see where the 1/4" jack or the XLR cable goes |
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Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | philwong - 2015-05-20 9:49 AM
I dont think we want to see where the 1/4" jack or the XLR cable goes
No! Please!!!! |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | philwong - 2015-05-20 8:49 AM I dont think we want to see where the 1/4" jack or the XLR cable goes plugging that in allowed for the opening of the feedback suppression hole.
Edited by stephent28 2015-05-20 10:37 AM
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Joined:
December 2014
Posts: 1713
Location: Frozen Tundra of Minnesota | stephent28 - 2015-05-20 10:35 AM
philwong - 2015-05-20 8:49 AM I dont think we want to see where the 1/4" jack or the XLR cable goes plugging that in allowed for the opening of the feedback suppression hole.
Snort Warning Please! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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