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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | So here's me, 55 years young and a fairly competent acoustic guitarist and/or bass player with (until recently) NO electric guitar experience or ability. Quite recently i was invited to join a band, my first ever 'proper' gigging band - but as rhythm guitarist... on electric guitar. (Nope... Never saw THAT coming!) Its something I'd never even considered and I'm finding myself enjoying it enormously. I'mnow feeling comfortable playing electric guitar and I'm even venturing into playing a few simple lead riffs. The one I'm most proud of is the lead guitar played over the end of the Doobie's 'Listen To The Music'. I haven't quite nailed it yet, but I know I'll get it soon. So here's my question... can someone of my vintage become a reasonably proficient lead guitarist in the style of The Doobies or Lynyrd Skynyrd? Not one of those new world 1000 notes a second thrash heads. i don't want to spend lotsa dosh on guitar lessons if it's a lost cause. Or should I just stick to concentrating on improving as a solid rhythm player providing the occasional riff/fill? The reason I ask is I read somewhere that if you haven't got your guitar speed by your mid 20's, you're not gonna get it.
Edited by muzzlitebeer 2015-02-04 2:47 AM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Oops. I hit 'Quote' instead of 'Edit'
Edited by muzzlitebeer 2015-02-04 2:48 AM
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Location: Jet City | muzza - 2015-02-04 12:41 AM I read somewhere that if you haven't got your guitar speed by your mid 20's, you're not gonna get it... That's a bunch a bull-oney. If you have the desire to learn it and put the practice time in, you can. Just find a teacher that's in tune with what you're looking to do. Pick a good one with real training. I have a friend who's an honors grad from MI's GIT in LA who I'll pay to show me some new tricks every once in a while. He's worth every penny spent. Can show me any style I want to pick up on. The things I've practiced, I've gotten better at... including my speed. On that note, a lil shout out to his band The Crying Spell. They played the half time show at the Divisional playoff game here for the Seahawks this year. Not my style of music really, but they're really good. Eric's the one playing the White Falcon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTvbC841cA
Edited by Damon67 2015-02-04 3:32 AM
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Location: Thredbo, NSW, Australia | Glad to hear it's going well Muzz!
There's nothing like live performance to hone your skills. The speed and accuracy will come - just give it time.
A good performance will lead to a great performance.
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Location: Utah | I sure hope it is possible! At 54 1/2 years old it would be nice to know I can improve my playing.
Speed is over rated. Many of the very best soloists don't play with blinding speed. Agility and accuracy are far more important unless you're in a 90's shred band. |
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Location: Jet City | I don't mean to be argumentative, but..
Speed is used in all types of music. It's OVERused by your stereotypical shredder, but just go youtube some old country pickers, jazz, classical, even plain ol' rock and roll.
My experience is people that snub their noses at folks that can do it, usually can't themselves (me included). Agility and accuracy come into play even more so at 1000mph. Don't kid yourself, these guys might not be playing your style of music but they are phenomenal players. Many of them are hired guns and are doing it because that's what the band they're playing in is looking for.
Case in point, the video above. Eric plays maybe a half dozen to a dozen notes total in the solo. There's nothing speedy about it, it's appropriate for the song though. The guy can blaze if needed as seen in my phone clip where he was showing me sweep picking...
http://youtu.be/XEw2zR-SPXU?list=UUxVfTu-ZcHGZINCnrFWPm2w
Speed will help with your accuracy and agility. I quite often play things at double or triple speed just to get my muscle memory down.
Now feel... that's a whole nuther story. There's quite a few speedy players that don't have that, but it has nothing to do with how fast they can play, it's a lack of something else that's much harder to pinpoint.
Edited by Damon67 2015-02-04 11:58 AM
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Location: Utah | damon67 - 2015-02-04 10:55 AM
Now feel... that's a whole nuther story. There's quite a few speedy players that don't have that, but it has nothing to do with how fast they can play, it's a lack of something else that's much harder to pinpoint.
They either lack musicality or they are playing a genre which doesn't click for the listener. I find modal shredding very dull. But a Buddy Guy ripping something out quickly is much more interesting, to me at least.
When I went to my first competitive pistol match, the guy who was watching over me advised to totally forget about speed. You can't miss fast enough to win! But accuracy has its own satisfaction. Once you have accuracy, then work on being smooth. Smooth and efficient motions enable fast performance.
The same applies to music. You can't play crappy fast enough to be good.
A trick to learning to play fast which took me 50 years to hear about is to start at the end of the phrase. Play the last few notes until you have them down pat. Then learn some notes prior to those. It is easy to then play into the part you already know. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I think the secret is simply practice, practice, practice. I've been working hard on learning some new stuff (even earned a small blister), and the trick is to get it right, get it good (no muffles or buzzes), then gradually bump up the speed (by no more than 5% each session). Someone here said to practice it until you can't get it wrong, seems like good advice. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I don't know. It would be like Muzz wearing a Speedo....sure, you can get it on, but are you gonna look sexy? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Maybe if I would have started when I was only 55 I could tell you whether it's possible. My speed has slowly improved over the last few years, if that makes any sense. The only age restrictions I can think of are arthritis or other joint issues in your wrists. My excuse is that the plate in my left wrist slows me down. I like that better than claiming I'm too old. I use the age excuse for my slowness on the soccer field.
Didn't Clapton (Slowhand) say something about trying for accuracy, not speed? |
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Location: SoCal | You guys are giving exactly the right advice. Start slowly and keep working at it. It will come. And remember that you'll never play exactly like your hero --- you'll end up putting your own spin on it. That's what makes you, well, you (I know, in BobG's case, being him is depressing as hell).
I have never learned to play lead, but I'm finding that for solo guitar, I'm learning single note/chord stuff that gives me a good intro or solo section. And when I work it out, it's one note at a time..... |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | To quote fellow Cincinnatian Pete Rose - "How could I have lost a step? I was never that fast to begin with!"
I started when I was 19 (always acoustic); I'm 64 now. I should be a lot better than I am, but I'm always learning.
So I say go for it!!!
Edited by rick endres 2015-02-04 7:58 PM
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Location: Michigan | interesting when i started playing at 13 years old electric was the only guitar i was interested in and i wanted to play lead guitar in a band . as i aged and found out i wasn't nearly as good as the people i played with so i backed off and went to rhythm guitar. as i aged (40) i got interested in acoustic guitars and then at (50) acoustic electric . now (60) i want to crank up an amp and play electric again.
i never thought that playing rhythm guitar in a band that you were making much of an impact on the sound of the band , but the lead guitar / bass / organ / and even the drummer was everything to making a band sound good.
does anyone know of a great well known rhythm guitar player and please don't say george harrison.
when playing electric guitar to me it has to be lead riffs that make the band kick *** or you are just a background player who does not get noticed much.
just my thoughts.GWB |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Much like the drummer, the rhythm guitarist forms the backbone of the song.
guitarwannabee - 2015-02-04 7:19 PM
does anyone know of a great well known rhythm guitar player and please don't say george harrison.
GWB
HERE is a partial list.
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Location: Jet City | off the top of my head, here are a few rhythm players that make their perspective bands kickass...
Malcome Young
Keith Richards
Stone Gossard
James Hetfield
Rudolf Schenker
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Location: Michigan | i should clarify myself , i am talking more of hard rock bands . i guess i just don't hear the rhythm guitar on bands that i see playing electric , unless they are the softer acoustic electric bands like the byrds csny greatful dead ect... im not knocking rhythm guitarists i just do not hear them when i see a live electric band . GWB |
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Location: Jet City | All of the ones I listed are from hard rock bands with the exception of Richards Trust me... you can 'hear' Hetfield
Edited by Damon67 2015-02-04 11:23 PM
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Location: closely held secret | guitarwannabee - 2015-02-04 7:19 PM
does anyone know of a great well known rhythm guitar player and please don't say george harrison.
John Lennon
David Knopfler
John Kay
Jack Black
Chuck Berry
Roy Orbison
David Byrne
Tom Fogarty
David Crosby
Pete Townshend
Dave Grohl
John Hall
Richie Havens
Don Felder
Jim Messina
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Location: Jet City | I was asked to play the part of Frank "Poncho" Sampedro in a Crazy Horse tribute band. You gotta have some good rhythm behind one note solos. |
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I tried to teach Weas the solo from Cinnamon Girl, but he didn't think he could pull it off...
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Location: south east Michigan | "ouch" ... says Weas |
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A man's got to know his limitations...
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Location: Colorado | Buy yourself an easy to use but high quality looper...I like TC Electronic..but there are a lot out there.
Buy yourself Matt Smith's Chop Shop series...go slow...but already having regular rhythm guitar skills will help.
Then practice....practice...sit with lead players....watch lead players....even the older ones - Chet Atkins and Mark Knoffler come to mind - because they were/are players who have mastered blending lead with rhythm - and both can move freely between the two. IMHO if you are playing with a cover band - learn the solos the way the band and the audience remember them...Jamming and adlibbing can come later.
Have fun...I am amazed how many amateurs resist practicing...time - effort etc...but if you talk to those who really are the pros...they practice...Allen Iverson notwithstanding. I used to play real well...but I don't practice any more...and it shows. :-( |
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Location: Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire | I started finger picking rather late in life after playing lead in various rock and pop bands over the years. It doesn't matter what age you are if you're passionate about learning something new. The more you work at it the better it gets. As far as speed goes, there are ways to get more from less and its all about technique, efficiency and working the frets to minimize too much movement and of course picking techniques (e.g. Mark Knopfler, Chet, Matt Smith as mentioned) Those guys get a lot out of what they do without a lot of effort. Its how they do it and their own style. When I think about some piece I want to play however challenging, its what can I do with it and most often I can get pretty close. It's never too late........... |
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Old dog, new tricks?