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| Hi guys.
Found an electric guitar on a swedish "used for sale site". The saler claims that it is an Ovation, but I don't recognice it. Googled for it but found nothing.
So is it really an Ovation?
http://www.blocket.se/vi/14431706.htm |
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Location: NJ | ut deoends if you consider celebrity guitars ovation or not |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Yes, its a Celebrity solid body.
Made in Korea by Kaman Music (Ovation)
Strat type 2 single coils and humbucker, Floyd Rose type tremelo bridge.
They usually sell for around $150usd, quite a reasonable guitar for the money.
What are they asking for that one in USD?
I have two in my collection.
Cheers AJ |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Al has a point, a few on here probably don't :D |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | What's an Ovation, and what's not? Good question. Certainly the ones built in the original factory in New Hartford are. But what about the imports? I used to have a BMW that was built in the USA. My snobby german friend refused to consider it a real BMW. But his german made BMW has the entire transmission built in France, so what the hell is up with that?
Celebrity, I really don't know what to call it. Similar materials, assembly techinques, visual appearence as USA models. I think of it very much like Fender and Squire. Squire is "sort of" made by Fender, just like Celebrity is "sort of" made by Ovation. Martin had their Sigma line, and Takamine has Jasmine, etc. etc.
Dave |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Okay... Is the new Ultra 2071 really an Ovation?
I had a Yamaha Motorcycle that was bought in Japan, had all the writing on it in Japanese, the speedometer was in Kilometers...
It was manufactured in the USA, shipped to Japan, sold to a US Navy dude, and found it's way back here.
Ah... The Global Marketplace... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | FWIW those Celebrity Solid-Bodies are pretty nice guitars. Their only physical drawback that I've seen is mostly in the materials that were used. So if one has lasted this long, and is still in good playable shape, it's a nice one and will probably last a long while more. It was/is a consistency thing.. Same model, same age, side by side one would have a great neck, the other not.
The only reason they are not in the $300-$500 range is because you can buy a new guitar today of similar quality, maybe even a bit more consistant, for $300-$500. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | If it wasn't made in New Hartford or Moosup its an Ovation import....
The imports are not real Ovations to me.
Imports are a lot of bang for the buck.
They well made. |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | antianti.v:
the seller is asking around US$300 with amplifier and US$220 for the guitar only. There are few pieces missing around the bridge which is why the guitar currently has only four strings attached and why the seller is selling it cheap. if you are based in USA, with the shipping cost, whether it is Celebrity or not seems to be a mute point. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | STK, you should play it first. if it speaks to You, buy it, if not - don't.
I've played on similar one in Poland (but it was blue) and it was ok, but didn't convince me to buy it. |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | LBJ: It is not I but antianti.v who was interested in the guitar. Just happen to know Swedish and thus, provide a quick translation. Moreover, I recently acquired three Ovations - 1984 Collector's from Sergio Lara, 2005 Collector's from Stuart Miller and Patriot from Guitar Center - so I am set for the moment.
Does anyone own a Lowden and/or Santa Cruz guitar? I read about Ovation/Adamas guitars (naturally) but also Takamine and Martin in this forum. However, nobody writes about Lowden or Santa Cruz. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If it says Ovation on it, it's an Ovation. It couldn't be more black and white than that. Where in the rule book does it say that Ovations can not be manufactured in certain countries.
Now, that being said ...
Does it cheapen the name when less expensive korean models are made to visually look just like USA models costing 3x the price? Yes.
Does it lessen the publics perception of Ovation when dealers stock 10 of the cheap imports for every 1 quality USA model? Yes.
Does selling thousands and thousands of these high margin imports help subsidize the USA factory and allow them to keep the doors open and build/repair the models most of us prefer? Yes.
Live with it. You're playing the same brand of guitar as the kid down the street who bought it new with gig bag from Musicians Friend for $399.
Dave
PS - In answer to STK, YES. I have played a few Santa Cruz that were very nice. Came real close to buying one of their OM's once. Beautiful sounding instrument. Lowden? Oh yeah. Jeff has a cedar one that is just about the best sounding guitar I ever played. No, you don't read much about high end acoustics like those on this board. I think for discussions like those (and Martins and Taks) folks gavitate over to the other boards. |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | STK: excuse me, my mistake :-) |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Does it cheapen the name when less expensive korean models are made to visually look just like USA models costing 3x the price? Yes. Maybe the Mother Ship doesn't care, but it seems like everyone that I run into pretty much thinks that Ovations are crap. It's because the only one they've ever seen or played was a bottom of the line Applause or Celebrity at Guitar Center. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by FlySig:
... it seems like everyone that I run into pretty much thinks that Ovations are crap. It's because the only one they've ever seen or played was a bottom of the line Applause or Celebrity at Guitar Center. Yup, that's the way it is. It used to bother me. But if people think I've got a whole collection of Ovations "just like the crappy ones they've seen at GC", then so be it. I think I'm better off investing my efforts on other problems.
Dave |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by FlySig:
Originally posted by Tupperware:
Does it cheapen the name when less expensive korean models are made to visually look just like USA models costing 3x the price? Yes. Maybe the Mother Ship doesn't care, but it seems like everyone that I run into pretty much thinks that Ovations are crap. It's because the only one they've ever seen or played was a bottom of the line Applause or Celebrity at Guitar Center.
I heard "I don't like Ovations but that that one sounds really good" over the last 18 years.
(refering to TB-01)
Now I started to hear the same with the 1719.
I truely wish the imports had a different head stock to indentify them as imports or say
Celeberty instead of Ovation on it. |
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Location: NJ | click. |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | PEZ: In Korea where Celebrity guitars are made, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the US made O's and Korea made Celebrity/Applause. The shops (or the manufacturer of Celebrity) have removed many of the tags which separate an O versus a C. Only when the shopowners think you can afford the substantially more expensive Made in USA O, do they put the sales pitch on you to buy the genuine O.
When a Brand such as Ovation gets cannibalized by its cheaper cousin Celebrity, you get company like Fender buying up Kaman. Plastic bowl does not mean it has to be cheaper, as long as Kaman has its special know-how and takes advantage of it. Moreover, without the strong brand recognition, the value of genuie O's are going to go down, which is a shame for such wonderful guitars.
P.S. LBJ, no worries :-) Did you get the strings shipped yet? |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | Need to learn to write shorter replies like Cliff "click" to upgrade myself from junior member to member. :D |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Hey STK, Kam Sa Am Ni Dah!
You been to the Celebrity Factory?
Also, despite what some may here say, most people know that there is a contimuum of quality in the Kaman line.
Let the people who think that an applause is an adamas take their cheese and live in La La land. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | oh yeah ... click |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | Kam Sa Ham Ni Da to you, too. Oh yeah, forgot the Click to get one more credit to my postings :D
No visit to the C factory yet. But if more of the OFC members show up in Seoul, I might be able to arrange?! I will take out the members to Korean BBQ with a lot of Kimchi (spicy cabbage). Tupperware is only one I know thus far destined to show up here sooner or later due to work. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by an4340:
Also, despite what some may here say, most people know that there is a contimuum of quality in the Kaman line.
Let the people who think that an applause is an adamas take their cheese and live in La La land. Thanks for voicing sanity.
I buy Celebrity's and I know what I am getting. A good, consistent, laser-cut guitar, made by machines at a "Factory" factory. And I can hear the difference. That is why all my Celebrity's plug-in and most of my USO's don't.
(There are cheap Takamine's out there too.) |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by STK:
PEZ: In Korea where Celebrity guitars are made, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the US made O's and Korea made Celebrity/Applause. The shops (or the manufacturer of Celebrity) have removed many of the tags which separate an O versus a C. Only when the shopowners think you can afford the substantially more expensive Made in USA O, do they put the sales pitch on you to buy the genuine O.
When a Brand such as Ovation gets cannibalized by its cheaper cousin Celebrity, you get company like Fender buying up Kaman. Plastic bowl does not mean it has to be cheaper, as long as Kaman has its special know-how and takes advantage of it. Moreover, without the strong brand recognition, the value of genuie O's are going to go down, which is a shame for such wonderful guitars.
P.S. LBJ, no worries :-) Did you get the strings shipped yet? Celbs are beginner to amature grade instruments.
USA Ovation are pro instruments. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by STK:
PEZ: In Korea where Celebrity guitars are made, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the US made O's and Korea made Celebrity/Applause. The shops (or the manufacturer of Celebrity) have removed many of the tags which separate an O versus a C. Only when the shopowners think you can afford the substantially more expensive Made in USA O, do they put the sales pitch on you to buy the genuine O.
When a Brand such as Ovation gets cannibalized by its cheaper cousin Celebrity, you get company like Fender buying up Kaman. Plastic bowl does not mean it has to be cheaper, as long as Kaman has its special know-how and takes advantage of it. Moreover, without the strong brand recognition, the value of genuie O's are going to go down, which is a shame for such wonderful guitars.
P.S. LBJ, no worries :-) Did you get the strings shipped yet? It certainly has not hurt
Fender with with thier imports.
Nor Gibson with Epi imports. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by STK:
Kam Sa Ham Ni Da to you, too. Oh yeah, forgot the Click to get one more credit to my postings :D
No visit to the C factory yet. But if more of the OFC members show up in Seoul, I might be able to arrange?! I will take out the members to Korean BBQ with a lot of Kimchi (spicy cabbage). Tupperware is only one I know thus far destined to show up here sooner or later due to work. It would be interesting to see a tour like Jerome has at New Hartford.
http://www.ovationtribute.com/Ovation_Factory_Tour_2007/Ovation_Fac...
Is actually a Kaman Factory or is it a contractor?
I'd be interested in seeing it.
Depending on cost. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Just out curiosity how do prices compare in S Korea and USA.
This Celbs retail is $350
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CelebNQ
This Custom Legend $1500
http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?SKU=O17195&ovchn=FRO&ovc...
What they sell for in S. Korea?? |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | PEZ: First of all thanks for asking me all these questions so I can post more replies.
On the price of the guitar: Last time I went to Nakwon mall of music instruments in Seoul, the Celebrity model were all in US$300 range. Now with US Dollar being weaker since then, I would say the price is almost the same. The good thing of buying Celbs in the U.S. is that you are guaranteed an A grade guitar. Let me explain using Hyundai automobile. When Hyundai exports cars to the U.S., the cars usually have thicker steel plates, more options and usually costs much less than the ones you buy in Korea.
The Custom Legend (Made in USA) will cost you around US$2,000 or slightly more. There is certain room to haggle. |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | On the Celbs factory tour, I have not been there myself. However, if there are enough OFC members interested in it, a visit similar to Mothership probably can be arranged. Having said that, I cannot believe the factory would be on par with the one in CT.
The trip to Seoul including accommodation will costs you close to US$2,000. FYI, That is one Custom Legend. Seoul is the second most expensive city in the world after Moscow, believe it or not. I promise to take you out for Korea BBQ and kimchi fest twice per day on the house. |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | PEZ: On your first question on Fender and Gibson holding up their guitar prices despite its cheaper brands such as Epiphone (Made in Korea and China) and so on. IMHO, Fender and Gibson have a totally different brand recognition even by non-guitar playing population. And even more so with guitar afficionados. Furthermore, the electric guitars from Fender and Gibson are industry standard which is why there are so many copy cat models of Fender Stratocaster and Gibson Les Paul. Not that I am a marketing guru but I am not really sure what brand strategy is for Ovation/Adamas/Celebrity guitars. The new owner Fender probably will have to limit the number of models and focus more on money making models only.
I have a guitar book by Tom and Mary Anne Evans named "Guitars". It is a guitar encyclopedia going back close to 20 years or more. There are two pictures of Ovation only in a 500 page book while Gibson/Fender/Martin have at least 20 pictures or more in the acoustic and electric section. On Ovation, it is written "on past evidence, guitarists are quite conservative about the shape of their instruments (witness the lack of success of Gibson's Explorer and Flying V when they first appeared). It is also possible that they are wary of the built-in preamplifier." |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Just my 2 cents, but I'm guessing that the delination between the korean and usa instruments is not so black and white. What I mean is, the upper end of the imports might very well be better made and better sounding guitars than the bottom end of the usa line. For $500. that solid top Ultra with contour bowl, abalone rosette and OP-Pro is one hell of an instrument. Certainly not the best, but better than some of the usa models I have seen in terms of sound, features and build quality. As far as 'pigeon-holing' guitars based on where they are made, I disagree. If Fender decides to move balladeer and legend production to Korea, do those models automatically become beginner to amature level instruments? I don't think so.
Dave |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Tupperware:
Just my 2 cents, but I'm guessing that the delination between the korean and usa instruments is not so black and white. What I mean is, the upper end of the imports might very well be better made and better sounding guitars than the bottom end of the usa line. For $500. that solid top Ultra with contour bowl, abalone rosette and OP-Pro is one hell of an instrument. Certainly not the best, but better than some of the usa models I have seen in terms of sound, features and build quality. As far as 'pigeon-holing' guitars based on where they are made, I disagree. If Fender decides to move balladeer and legend production to Korea, do those models automatically become beginner to amature level instruments? I don't think so.
Dave Agrreded as long as they are made with the same materials and workmanship. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by STK:
On the Celbs factory tour, I have not been there myself. However, if there are enough OFC members interested in it, a visit similar to Mothership probably can be arranged. Having said that, I cannot believe the factory would be on par with the one in CT.
The trip to Seoul including accommodation will costs you close to US$2,000. FYI, That is one Custom Legend. Seoul is the second most expensive city in the world after Moscow, believe it or not. I promise to take you out for Korea BBQ and kimchi fest twice per day on the house. I would think it would be a lot more automated,
as the Celbs are mass produced.
The quality control on them as pretty impressive.
I would think it would be a very modern plant.
For the money they are impressive guitars.
There is no better acoustic/electric in that price range.
Every now and then there a magic one that sounds real imppressive. When I was hosting an opem mic I saw lots of them come through.
I had no idea Seoul was that expensive.
For that matter Moscow..... |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by STK:
PEZ: First of all thanks for asking me all these questions so I can post more replies.
On the price of the guitar: Last time I went to Nakwon mall of music instruments in Seoul, the Celebrity model were all in US$300 range. Now with US Dollar being weaker since then, I would say the price is almost the same. The good thing of buying Celbs in the U.S. is that you are guaranteed an A grade guitar. Let me explain using Hyundai automobile. When Hyundai exports cars to the U.S., the cars usually have thicker steel plates, more options and usually costs much less than the ones you buy in Korea.
The Custom Legend (Made in USA) will cost you around US$2,000 or slightly more. There is certain room to haggle. With the cars they have meet US DOT safety standards. They cost less here???
Why is that? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by PEZ:
Agrreded as long as they are made with the same materials ... Hey, plastic is plastic. |
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Location: SoCal | Marin OM vs. cheap Epiphone..... wood is wood........ |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | Moody: Wood is wood, but it is not. It is almost impossible to harvest new Brazilian Rosewood which is why the very best guitars have side and back made out of Brazilian versus Indian. Many of the cheaper guitars are made out of laminated wood and not solid tonal wood. There is also the age of the wood. The AAA grade spruce has denser wood grain than AA and so on. You can almost count the rings. At least this is what I have been told when I visited the luthier shops in Madrid, Spain, last year.
PEZ: It is called dumping/protection from U.S. car makers' point of view. Hyundai Sonata 4-cyl model starts at US$20K here while you can get it for around US$15k with more options in the U.S. Lexus LS460L costs close to US$200K here while it costs around US$75K in your neck of the wood. |
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Location: NJ | I believe Moody was just trying t'be facetious.
Unfortunately, he's as adept at Humour as he is at Spelling . . . |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | With the cars they have meet US DOT safety standards. They cost less here???
Why is that? PEZ: This also applies to the USA made Ovation. It is so much cheaper in the U.S. than, say, the U.K. or Germany. Our OFC members in these countries have told us so. In Sweden, the VAT (value added tax) you pay for merchandize is 25%. So for a guitar that cost US$1,000, you would pay VAT of US$250 on top. You are lucky to live in shoppers' heaven.
P.S. The junior title is gone next to my ID. I can now stop posting. Thanks, PEZ. :cool: |
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Location: Seoul, Korea | I believe Moody was just trying t'be facetious.
Unfortunately, he's as adept at Humour as he is at Spelling . . . Cliff: I need to be more crisp like you. Click. ;)
BTW, when you live in one of the densest cities in the world, it is difficult to keep one's humor up. Will remember to temper Moody's comment from now on. Am a confused individual who has had four citizenships in the past - Korean to Swedish to American to Singaporean (recent). Family and Guitars keep me sane. |
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Location: SoCal | Bite me guys. I was poking fun at Witko..... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | STK, most of us are sarcastic most of the time, except when Moody says, "bite me." He really means it. He's into that sort of thing. As you probably know, all Californians are into kinky stuff.
Personally, I tend to exaggerate, especially when I complain about my wife. She never has whipped me one time, even after I bought her that outfit and whips when we were in California last summer. Exaggeration is my only fault.
We had a South Korean foreign exchange student living with us a couple years ago. She had all sorts of fun with the vocabulary and kept trying to find words that I didn't know. We had more fun with her pronunciation. "Peace" was "piss" and "sheet" was "shit" and "beach" was "bitch". Christmas was time for singing "Piss on Earth". We missed her this Christmas. |
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Location: NJ | Whitehead had a Korean foreign-exchange student as well . . .
. . . they never DID find her . . . . |
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Location: SoCal | he musta bit her..... |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | someone mentoined prices of US-made ovations in Europe, it looks like these:
take retail price in US add 25% of import tax, then add 22% of VAT tax then add another 20% for shop and there is a price of a guitar. Simple?
$1000 guitar + $250 import tax = $1250 + 22% vat = 1525$ + 20% for seller =1860%...
...and then You have discounts. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | What's the value added tax? How do they add value except by taxing it? |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | they take retail value of guitar from their book , then they add (before adding vat) import tax, then they add to a taxed value, so it's bigger.
And what is funny, in Europe (at least in Poland)there is no lifetime warranty. In Poland Ovations get a 12 month warranty (Korean made) or 24 months warranty (US made and Adamas).
Importing used guitars is MUCH cheaper because if they do add anything, they add 3 or 7% of import tax, but i don't know on what basis, and there is no VAT on used guitars so so-called "private import" is much cheaper...
... did i mention that i will be on market for v.good / mint condition 1614 in may or june :-)?? |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | So there really is no value added, its just more tax. It should be called the tax on tax tax. |
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Location: Central Oregon | Originally posted by an4340:
So there really is no value added, its just more tax. It should be called the tax on tax tax. I liberal utopia. |
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Location: enid, ok | A tax by any other name is still a tax. Click! |
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Is this really an Ovation