|
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | film at 11 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575
Location: big island | that didn't take long. status quo for 3 years, huh? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Interesting.
Now we can tour the Guild stuff also.
A little wood sniffin' never hurt nobody. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Should improve the quality immediately! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 1126
Location: Omaha, NE | Huh? You mean they are moving the Tacoma production to CT? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Well that was unexpected..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575
Location: big island | is it 11 yet? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575
Location: big island | is it 11 yet?
oh wait...it's only 7:21am here, i gotta wait 3 1/2 more hours for the news. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I wonder where they'll put it. Things already looked relatively crowded. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | I'm really happy for the mothership.
Good people, strong tradition.
Glad to see they are being recognized as such. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 4394
Location: East Tennessee | Originally posted by Slipkid:
Interesting.
Now we can tour the Guild stuff also.
A little wood sniffin' never hurt nobody. When I was in High School I had a Guild hollow bodied electric guitar. One of those I should have kept. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | The Guild/Tacoma/Ovation/Hamer Craftsman are good people!
Elvis was good people. He just had the wrong Manager in the long run. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | In 1980 I had one of the Guild Semi-Holler'd with a Fender Twin Reverb amp.
...gone, like my youth... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I have a mint, nearly unplayed, blonde Starfire IV, which is supposedly one of the last USA models, along with Pilot Bass and an S-250. This is one of the advantages of never selling anything. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | And to think, some member named Standingovation posted back on Sept. 30, 2005 that he wished they would start building wooden box guitars in New Hartford ...
Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I wonder where they'll put it. Things already looked relatively crowded. According to the press release they are moving the Kaman Bowed Instrument stuff to Ontario, so I guess that frees up the part of the building where they'll put the Guild stuff. Just a guess.
Originally posted by Slipkid:
I'm really happy for the mothership. Agreed. Unless you're one of the 70 effected employees in Tacoma, WA.
Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | That's great, but if I buy a Guild, it's going to be an old one. As a kid I used to drool over their catalogs. Almost bought an S-60D or S-300D back in the day, but my Ovation is a better guitar. But man, those hollowbodies-great craftsmanship, and much cheaper than the Gibson equivalent! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes, it sucks for the people out there, but we knew it was going to suck for somebody. Being an a$$hole it's always better if it sucks for people you don't know than for ones you do. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | Part of me wishes they would have moved Ovation to Tacoma. I'd get to visit more often. But I'm glad Ovation is staying in New Hartford and this seems to be an indication of faith in that facility. Guild is going back a little closer to its roots and has been moved a bit. Consolidations are always tough on some employees. I assume they'll increase the number of employees in New Hartford. I hope they get good ones. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 482
Location: enid, ok | There are some marvelous luthiers in Mexico... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes, many of them are working in Tacoma. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 713
Location: Alberta, Canada | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
Yes, it sucks for the people out there, but we knew it was going to suck for somebody. Being an a$$hole it's always better if it sucks for people you don't know than for ones you do. I have to agree with Bill, here.
Perhaps some of those in Tacoma will be relocated to Conn. Would probably be a good move to keep as much of your skilled manpower as possible. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Actually, depending on where they live in connecticut, if they move, the cost of living may be less.
I'm sure the bean counters factored this in in relocating guild. Tacoma's not the bargain it was 20 years ago, and now parts of the northeast are relatively cheap once you're outside of the orbit of NYC. After my sears guitar, the next one was a guild. So it's alright with me. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | In terms of where they'll put them, if that part of conn. is like upstate ny, there's a lot of hollowed out industries. They'll be able to find a nice cozy old factory for them. And the Community will welcome them open arms. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7237
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well this sounds like good news, but I'm still waiting for the film at 11:00. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | here's a link to some of the film at 11
http://www.guitargearheads.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=294 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | It looks like some of Tacoma may be moving to Conn. too. Tacomas made in Conn. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I hope those employees who can move, do move. the north east ain't so bad. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I thought it was interesting how, according to one of my fender books, Kaman was a serious suiter for fender back in 1984? and now Fender bought Kaman but now the Kaman people will be building guilds ... and tacomas. Funny world ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2004
Posts: 1388
Location: Paris/France | Seems to be good news for the factory.
J :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | I'm having trouble keeping up, obviously.
Taylor & Fender "in bed", too?!
http://www.guitargearheads.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=295 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | That was announced just before NAMM. Fender will distribute Taylor in Europe. Fender distributing Taylor, Takamine and Ovation in Europe is a pretty powerful combination. Dave |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2006
Posts: 1634
Location: Chehalis, Washington | Means that hopefully those on the other side of the pond will have a decent supply of good O's and A's soon, rather than having to pay import fees and shipping to get them from here.
It'll be interesting to see what comes of a Fender/Taylor alliance. I don't see Taylor buying out FMC any time soon, and yet somehow I don't figure that Bob Taylor is the kind of guy to let anyone else tell him how to run his business...this should be fun.
The article didn't mention Tacoma closing completely, did it? I'd hate to lose them from here in the NW. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Maybe this means the whole building will be used for guitar making (hate to see that little wire company in the basement suffer, but...). That'll make for a fun tour!
John <>{ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | sorry guys I was sick yesterday. food poisoning. 102 fever aches chills etc. ate some bad shrimp on wed
anyway here is the press release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
GUILD GUITARS TO MOVE PRODUCTION FROM TACOMA, WASH.
TO NEW HARTFORD, CONN.
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. – (Jan 31, 2008) Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) announced today it will move production of Guild Guitars from Tacoma, Wash. to its newly acquired Ovation and Hamer Guitar manufacturing facility in New Hartford, Conn. The move will take place as a phased operational transfer, expected to be completed before the end of the year.
FMIC’s recent (Dec. 31, 2007) acquisition of Bloomfield, Conn. based Kaman Music Corp. also included the purchase of KMC’s Ovation and Hamer guitar brands, and their manufacturing facility in New Hartford, Conn. After closing the KMC acquisition, an extensive review of the Tacoma and New Hartford manufacturing facilities was conducted to determine the best long-term home for Guild production. The final decision to relocate Guild to New Hartford was driven by FMIC’s desire to improve overall production processes as well as meet the growing demand for Guild throughout the world.
“We are committed to moving forward in a strong and focused way to ensure that Guild instruments continue to meet the highest standards of quality, affordability and accessibility for our consumers,” said Bill Mendello, Chairman and CEO of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation. “This decision will allow us to accomplish goals that we would otherwise not be able to meet in our Tacoma facility, while continuing our long-term commitment to manufacturing, world-class guitars in the United States.” Select Tacoma® brand guitar models will soon follow in the transition.
Approximately 70 Tacoma, Wash. based FMIC employees will be affected by the move throughout the year and will be provided with comprehensive assistance, including retention and severance packages, benefit continuation and outplacement services.
Guild is one of the six original American guitar brands, offering high quality instruments to value conscious players of all levels and styles. Founded in 1952, Guild began its rise from a small Manhattan guitar workshop to one of the world’s premier makers of high-quality acoustic (and several popular electric) guitars. The fledgling company originally set up a 1,500-square-foot manufacturing facility on the second floor of a factory near the base of the Brooklyn Bridge.
Today, Guild continues to champion its timeless history and heritage of old-world craftsmanship, modern design innovation and solid value. Guild guitars remain among the most sought after instruments for discerning musicians. Guild Guitars became a brand of the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation in 1995.
======++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
so it looks like 70 people will lose thier jobs. Guild and eventually Tacoma moves to new Hartford.
For my friends at the factory this is good news but it sure insn't business as usual as we were all told over and over.
guess this is why they need more time to plan an open house. Too much stuff moving in at the Factory. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Fender is becoming all my favorite guitars! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I just hope they can keep the Ovation/Adamas repair and construction operation separate from the others. I've had some bad experiences with mergers, where they decide to restructure everything to operate the same way. It's all going to come down to who they put in charge. I don't know anything about FMIC, but I sure hope they have quality leadership. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Sounds to me like FMIC realizes that the artisans' skills and production facilities in New Hartford are second to none. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| [edit - dang it! what's going on with these double posts?!?!] |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Parrish, FL | There is a thread on the AFG on this topic. Lots of angst about the demise of Guild. A couple of moronic comments about how can you expect Guild quality out of a group that builds 'plastic guitars' :rolleyes: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Ovations and the Adamas's in particular are unique enough that I am confident Fender will not do anything as foolish as changing the line up of craftsmen & women who work in the repair and custom shops etc. Fender really does have a hell of a line up of guitars. Like General Motors. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | Just so I can sound intelligent, what are the "six original American guitar brands"? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Lemme guess..
Martin
Gibson
Guild
Taylor
Ovation
Epiphone? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | If the six brands are historic, you have to include Fender and Gretsch on the list. Also, I have to believe Harmony might be in there someplace, although maybe they're only referring to companies still in business. Harmony built guitars and sold them to stores who rebadged them under different tradenames. I have a mid-60's Harmony Bobcat Silhouette made in the USA. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | :D ;) :rolleyes:
Very glad to hear it... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Rickenbacker, I think, is now and "still" the only US manufacturer that does not have an overseas production line.
If I am correct you have to applaude that! All these companies have to tip their hat toward Ric for this. Like them or not.
Priced a Ric Bass lately? They ain't goin down in price and by keeping the factory at a constant size they can hardly keep up with the orders from the guitar shops. This is "Old School" business practice. And it still works. Great Respected Company........Great Instruments.......Good Job Security for the employees..............Great value for the buyers. The Last All American Guitar Icon. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Sounds like 70 people are getting AX.
Maybe a good thing for the people who lost out in Westerly RI.
Seems New Hartford will be there a while
*********************************************************
Guild Moves Production to Ovation and Hamer HQ
Friday, 01 February 2008
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - (Jan 31, 2008) Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (FMIC) announced today it will move production of Guild Guitars from Tacoma, Wash. to its newly acquired Ovation and Hamer Guitar manufacturing facility in New Hartford, Conn. The move will take place as a phased operational transfer, expected to be completed before the end of the year.
FMIC's recent (Dec. 31, 2007) acquisition of Bloomfield, Conn. based Kaman Music Corp. also included the purchase of KMC's Ovation and Hamer guitar brands, and their manufacturing facility in New Hartford, Conn. After closing the KMC acquisition, an extensive review of the Tacoma and New Hartford manufacturing facilities was conducted to determine the best long-term home for Guild production. The final decision to relocate Guild to New Hartford was driven by FMIC's desire to improve overall production processes as well as meet the growing demand for Guild throughout the world.
"We are committed to moving forward in a strong and focused way to ensure that Guild instruments continue to meet the highest standards of quality, affordability and accessibility for our consumers," said Bill Mendello, Chairman and CEO of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation. "This decision will allow us to accomplish goals that we would otherwise not be able to meet in our Tacoma facility, while continuing our long-term commitment to manufacturing, world-class guitars in the United States." Select Tacoma brand guitar models will soon follow in the transition.
Approximately 70 Tacoma, Wash. based FMIC employees will be affected by the move throughout the year and will be provided with comprehensive assistance, including retention and severance packages, benefit continuation and outplacement services.
Guild is one of the six original American guitar brands, offering high quality instruments to value conscious players of all levels and styles. Founded in 1952, Guild began its rise from a small Manhattan guitar workshop to one of the world's premier makers of high-quality acoustic (and several popular electric) guitars. The fledgling company originally set up a 1,500-square-foot manufacturing facility on the second floor of a factory near the base of the Brooklyn Bridge.
Today, Guild continues to champion its timeless history and heritage of old-world craftsmanship, modern design innovation and solid value. Guild guitars remain among the most sought after instruments for discerning musicians. Guild Guitars became a brand of the Fender Musical Instruments Corporation in 1995.
Press Release
Source: FMIC |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I think when they say retention, they'll be given a chance to move to conn. At least some of them. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | "retention and severance packages"
Retention can amount to a bonus or better severance package if an employee stays on through the end of the plant's closing.
Relocation assistance comes in many forms. Moving an employee and their family cross-country is very expensive. Turn-key relocation packages are not handed out freely.
Businesses do what they think is right for the business.
Beal summed it up in his previous post. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | You know when the Fender buyout of KMC was announced it was all doom and gloom here. Now this, and to some it's more doom and gloom. There are a handful of industry professionals who post here occasionally and/or regularly and none post speculative bullshit on these threads because not posting is the "professional" thing to do. None of you have any control over this, nor do you have any real insight. I'm sick and tired of reading the "insider word" or "I hope this" or "I hope that" from people who know nothing about what's going on. I count myself as someone who knows nothing, but at least I have the decorum to keep my ignorance to myself.
It's gonna happen. Just let it, please. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | Paul: One thing OFC members have in common is the love of their guitars, as I have gotten to know. The knowledge of guitars is amazing, especially on O's and A's. I don't believe members are expressing any professional insight but more of a personal wish to keep their way of life. After all, this forum is not a business forum and OFC members know it. Let them express their views openly and freely as long as they are within the guidelines of this forum. ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Capo Guy:
Originally posted by Slipkid:
Interesting.
Now we can tour the Guild stuff also.
A little wood sniffin' never hurt nobody. When I was in High School I had a Guild hollow bodied electric guitar. One of those I should have kept.
they are sweet guitars.
Almost bought one of those when I choose the Tornado. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by Mauvais Beal:
Yes, it sucks for the people out there, but we knew it was going to suck for somebody. Being an a$$hole it's always better if it sucks for people you don't know than for ones you do. There words of wisdom...
I'm Happy New Hartford Staying
I'm Happy Guild coming back to New England.
I feel bad for Tacoma. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | Paul, This thread does not have that "doom and gloom" theme and I didn't notice any "insider word" stuff. Some people shared their "hopes"... it's an internet message board. You should have blasted the "doom-n-gloomers" in the other threads. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by alpep:
sorry guys I was sick yesterday. food poisoning. 102 fever aches chills etc. ate some bad shrimp on wed
hope your feeling better Al |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Yes there was "doom and Gloom" such as the totally speculative and unfounded...
"I just hope they can keep the Ovation/Adamas repair and construction operation separate from the others. I've had some bad experiences with mergers, where they decide to restructure everything to operate the same way. It's all going to come down to who they put in charge."
Thanks Bvince, now lets have your detailed music industry resume.... I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, but this is just not constructive in difficult and changing times.
Ok, the "insider word" was from other threads, but hell, we're better than other internet message boards, we all know that. My point was that ultimately we have no control over any of this, so why bother discussing it, other than to stir the crap. Remember there are another 70 peoples livliehoods at stake now....how would you like your future being discussed by a bunch of anonymous guitar geeks? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 1133
Location: Parrish, FL | As someone currently caught up in the closing and consolidation within a company (Non related to Kaman)I have to agree with Paul. In our case (my wife is part of it) there are over 100 people looking for a different place to earn their livelihood. These types of decisions have consequences far beyond anything we can speculate on or hope will not change.
Blues |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | It is unfortunately the cold reality of the capitalistic society where U.S. is the worst culprit and where dollars & sense controls versus people's heart. This is also why it is refreshing to be on this board where so-called guitar geeks daily exudes the warmth towards each other and to their guitars. Would you rather listen to an investment banker from Goldman Sachs who decided to leave his firm because his bonus was way too low. He ONLY earned US$50+ million last year; he wanted triple of that. BTW, I have nothing against i-bankers. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Hey STK.... Bite me. You really don't want to have this discussion.
How's that for warmth? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Well, I have something against i-bankers ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | Moody must like you STK. He only asks his friends to bite him.
but "capitalistic society" falls into the area of politics, which we avoid |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | No, I don't terribly like him. In 6 years on this board I've never made a judgment call regarding situations in other countries, and I don't appreciate people who do. When STK comes here, becomes a citizen, and starts voting, then I might, just might, not get pissed at his being critical of my country.
Until then, bite me...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| Test Test...just checking to see if I can still post. so far so good.
:D |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Thanks Bvince, now lets have your detailed music industry resume.... I'm sorry, I'm not picking on you, but this is just not constructive in difficult and changing times. ...
Remember there are another 70 peoples livliehoods at stake now....how would you like your future being discussed by a bunch of anonymous guitar geeks? So what does being constructive have to do with having a right to voice my personal opinion on this board, and what does having a "detailed music industry resume" have to do with this discussion?? First of all, I HAVE been on the receiving end of a corporate takeover and eventual "downsizing", and was one of those who lost their jobs.(in the middle of winter) I had a family of six and a house mortgage at the time. So I am very sympathetic with the feelings and concerns of those people, but if I were once again in that situation I wouldn't really give a damn about what someone was writing about on a guitar-related board. The last time I read the purpose of this board, I believe it had to do with the appreciation of Ovation guitars. My stated concern had to do with the continuing quality of Kaman instruments and their level of service. As far as your personal attack on me (and that is exactly what it was, despite the statement that you were not "picking on me") ... I have greatly appreciated the many informative and knowledgeable comments you have posted in the past, but in this case I am quite dissappointed in the level of arrogance you have chosen to display. You really need to get off your high horse and give God his seat back. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | Bite or no bite, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, which was not my intention. Try to be more careful with loaded commentary and stick to guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | Bite or no bite, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, which was not my intention. Try to be more careful with loaded commentary and stick to guitars. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Point taken Paul! And I am guilty of doing some of that (although it was well meant, I did not think some things thru). Then, this past week, I went through the yearly flogging known as a Pastor Parish Relations (PPR)Committee meeting to discuss whether or not to continue me in my current position or move another in (notice: I may be able to eat solid food in a couple of days...after the bile goes away, lol). Well, after listening to the petty and ridicules’ (you’d have to hear it to believe it), I'm safe for another year...but it does make one think...
Again, well said Paul! Like Al said everybody, Think! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | And if you're tired of reading comments about this subject all you need to do is NOT click on the thread. I believe this is still a free country.
Well I'd like to stay for more of this fun, but I'm growing a bit weary and need to get some sleep. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | Moody, I was just trying to defuse the situation and avoid an international incident. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | On a lighter note guys(and gals).
Does this mean that my DeArmond(by Guild)T400 is now officially part of "The Family"?
;) AJ |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | If we have to ;)
As a consolation, I like the Ashbory Bass. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by AussieJames:
On a lighter note guys(and gals).
Does this mean that my DeArmond(by Guild)T400 is now officially part of "The Family"?
;) AJ At least Kin |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by MusicMishka:
Point taken Paul! And I am guilty of doing some of that (although it was well meant, I did not think some things thru). Then, this past week, I went through the yearly flogging known as a Pastor Parish Relations (PPR)Committee meeting to discuss whether or not to continue me in my current position or move another in (notice: I may be able to eat solid food in a couple of days...after the bile goes away, lol). Well, after listening to the petty and ridicules’ (you’d have to hear it to believe it), I'm safe for another year...but it does make one think...
Again, well said Paul! Like Al said everybody, Think! Flogging??
So you know the guy that makes my custom guitar straps and holsters?? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Vince, I used your post as an example to illustrate a point, it was by no means a "personal attack" on you.
This is not "down-sizing" as you said, for the folks in New Hartford, it's expansion. If I were to make a similar speculation to yours it might be that the Guild and Tacoma brands will benefit greatly from being allied to the best customer service department in the industry, rather than Ovation's customer service going to hell in a hand-basket.
If suggesting that people with no real insight (and that's damn near every one of us) refrain from negative speculation based on a public domain press-release makes me "arrogant" then so be it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | So, how many people in the music industry does it take to piss on Henry? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | edit |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Henry? Who's Henry? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| edit................Peace Love Dope........! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | ". . So, how many people in the music industry does it take to piss on Henry? . ."
However many are IN the music industry . . . |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | . . . or as it says in the recipe:
". . add enough liquid t'cover . . ." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Cliff gets it right, almost
"however many there are in the music industry", plus 1. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Whoever has a full bladder at the appointed time? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Just one ... to close the toilet bowl cover and flush. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Um ....
who is Henry and why pee on him??? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | If you don't know, then it's probably better that you don't ask..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2003
Posts: 11039
Location: Earth·SolarSystem·LocalInterstellarCloud·Local Bub | It's amazing to me how quickly the New Hartford factory is being expanded to accommodate Guild. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | I think this is gonna' be "Good"!! . . .
T'me, MasterKeller has always had that "CheshireGrin" . . .
. . . it just seemed t'come aLOT "easier" Thursday Night. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 2487
| I have a custom project finally underway to help in one small way to keep the Adamas shop with a long list of work.
I sure hope all is what it should be and business is good for all.
Randy |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Seems relocation is a definite option.
Economy of scale? Does that mean the overhead cost was too much, for the number of Tacomas they made? Also, that guy from Pierce County said that they'll have no problem filling the old plant. It would be a big problem if it were the reverse, there's been so much hollowing out here in the Northeast ... I'm glad to see more manufacturing come this way.
Anyhow, this is a more upbeat article.
They’ll still be Tacoma Guitars even after moving to Connecticut
C.R. ROBERTS; c.r.roberts@thenewstribune.com Published: February 2nd, 2008 01:00 AM | Updated: February 2nd, 2008 07:59 AMTacoma
Guitars is leaving Tacoma.
The company, formed in 1995 by Korean instrument maker Young Chang, will close production at its Frederickson plant by the end of the year. Seventy employees will be offered services from a menu including severance pay, benefit continuation, relocation and job placement assistance.
Fender Musical Instruments of Scottsdale, Ariz., purchased the company in 2004 for an estimated $2 million to $4 million plus the assumption of debt, former Tacoma Guitars President Ferdinand Boyce said Thursday evening.
He said he was not surprised by Fender’s announcement to close the Frederickson facility and move production of Tacoma- and Guild-brand guitars to a plant in New Hartford, Conn.
The Connecticut plant, which Fender acquired late last year, is also home to production of Ovation- and Hamer-brand guitars.
“Frederickson is a wonderful plant, a great deal of it based on labor-intensive hand-manufacturing processes,” Boyce said. “A lot of guys building guitars are going to robotics, machine-assisted manufacturing, which isn’t suited to the Tacoma facility.”
Fender spokesman Jason Padgitt on Friday denied that robotics will play a role in the manufacture of Tacoma or Guild guitars.
“There’s a lot of respect for everything everyone has done there. It certainly wasn’t anything anyone looked at as an easy decision,” he said.
Padgitt said the decision centered on an economy of scale.
“We looked at production facilities and compared what was going to be the most effective for the brands overall,” he said. “The New Hartford plant has 67,000 square feet. Tacoma has 44,000 square feet.”
He promised the name Tacoma will live on.
At its peak, Tacoma Guitars employed 96 workers, said Boyce, now 71 and living in Seattle. He retired three years ago. Lately, he said, “Tacoma just wasn’t big enough to run with the big dogs. Fender’s commitment obviously is to make money.”
“Fender, from the time they bought the company, they really put Tacoma on the back burner,” said Jimmy Davis, guitar sales associate at Tacoma’s Ted Brown Music. “It’s a great brand, as far as acoustic guitars go.”
Bruce Kendall, president and CEO of the Economic Development Board for Tacoma-Pierce County, said he understands the move and doesn’t foresee a major local impact.
“It’s always unfortunate when good-paying jobs in Pierce County go elsewhere,” he said.
Kendall said the Frederickson plant, leased by Tacoma Guitars, should easily find interest from another company.
“There’s high demand for manufacturing space,” he said.
Along with Fender keeping alive the Tacoma brand, Davis from Ted Brown sees another silver lining. “At least they’re keeping it in America,” he said.
C.R. Roberts: 253-597-8535 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | Quite informative article an4340. Did not realize Young Chang owned Tacoma Guitars. The company must have realized that labor cost differential could not make up for art for lutherie. For many years famous Japanese and Korean luthiers tried to take apart very, very expensive guitars to understand the 'art' behind guitar making, so-called the secret behind the guitar sound. To my knowledge, at the least in the classical guitar area, only Kohno managed to figure out the art and commands prices similar to the best luthiers from Europe, Australia and the U.S. Epiphone guitars previously made in Korea are now made in China and only the top of the line in Korea. Maybe it is time to move back the Epiphone brand back to the U.S. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | STK : For many years famous Japanese and Korean luthiers tried to take apart very, very expensive guitars to understand the 'art' behind guitar making, so-called the secret behind the guitar sound.
------------------------------------------------
That`s what has been said for the past 7 decades , concerning anything from photo -camera`s to motor -cars , and anything in between , Truth is , the Japanese and Co. , " bought " the Engineers , simply copying , using reverse -engineering , will only get them into legal disputes , it`s a Fable , nothing more.
Vic |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | STK, An Yang Hah Sah Yo
Well, if the dollar keeps dwindling, you may be right STK, you may be right.
As to reverse engineering, I think STK is exagerating. For example, Eastman Guitars watched a Benadetto video and started making dynomite archtops in china. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Seoul, Korea | No, I am not exaggerating. There is a thick handbook on Guitar written about 20 years ago and there is a chapter describing a group of Japanese classical-guitar-luthier-to-be trying to photograph anything and everything when they visited world renowned luthiers in Madrid, Barcelona and Granada. Likewise, they bought and 'massacred' guitars made by famous Spanish luthiers to learn. If you PM me are interested I can provide you the name of the book. The education in Asia is more based on cramming than creative problem solving. This is also why it is not easy for them to come up with breakthrough technology but rather improvement of the proven technologies as mentioned by Vic above. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | When I bought a Takamine Dread for my sister in 1980 I remember talking with the sales manager about how the Japanese had reverse engineered much of it.
Also of note are some of the discussions going on at the Tacoma Guitar Forum where I posted this:
A Pig and a Rooster were sitting outside the Farmhouse and looked inside to see Farmer Bob eating his breakfast of Eggs and Ham.
The Rooster says "I sure hope he enjoys his breakfast. You have no idea how much commitment went into it"!
The Pig looks the Rooster straight in the face and says "YOU were involved!" "Us Pigs, WE are committed"!
I told ya that story so I could tell you this one.
I learned to play on my Sister's Guild D50 and later bought my very own Ovation Custom Balladeer. Years later we moved from Massachusetts to Washington State.
Whilst wandering the local Ted Brown Music store I ran across my first Tacoma guitars, and of course, the Papoose.
I have learned to enjoy all three Makers and relish the pride and craftsmanship that each has presented. I am also a member of the Ovation Fan club and have been back to New Hartford to visit the factory and meet my extended "Family".
So...
My point is that as the "Consumer" we are just a bunch of Roosters.
I am deeply and apologetically thankful to the craftspeople that turn the wood and wire into working instruments that are capable of inspiring us and allowing us to celebrate our breath and our lives! They will be going through a lot of transition, change and opportunity.
An Era has ended and another may be beginning. When inspired Craftspeople reach a road block - they usually end up starting new lines of instruments!
Watch for them and encourage them!
I still take pity on players I run into and have stopped playing because their tired old Fender acoustic has a crappy and painful setup. Time to use my gifts and a little elbow grease to repair/realign and get them back up and running! Maybe a call to the StewMac Hotline is in order...
I do hope that FMIC will be able to recognize the Soul of the Tacomas, Guilds, Ovation and Hamers and empower them to keep the dream making machine on-line.
Let me step down from my soapbox and just say that in time all these instruments and efforts will rust, fade or crumble but the impact of time spent with each other in song and worship of life will stay with us forever.
May God's blessings be upon the Luthiers that have been called to their craft, and craft to their calling. May each Worker find peace and opportunity. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | If reverse engineering was just copying, I would have a problem with it, but the Japanese have done a good job of making many good products better.
Another way off track example: I was working with a well-known engineer and was talking about my VW Vanagan. He told me that he worked for Toyota and when he was in Japan he found a whole junkyard of new VW Vanagans that Toyota had done crash tests on. They apparently were studying others while they designed Toyota minivans. No one would say the Sienna was a copy of the Vanagan. In the mid 90s when Porsche was struggling they brought over some Japanese consultants to help them with their manufacturing processes. Then came the Boxster etc. and Porsche became the most profitable car manufacturer. There are many good and bad products produced by most any culture.
I hope that this change is good for everyone, especially for those who may be displaced by it. Things have a way of working out. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Takamine sent Mr Hirade to Spain to study with one of the great makers (I think it was Ramirez but I can't be bothered to go and check) and he then went back and taught his staff in Japan. And over the years he added his own touches. The guys at Yamaha are even better and make truly world-class instruments.
You'd have to explain the difference between an American luthier copying the great Ramirez/Hauser classical guitar designs (which every single living classical guitar maker does) and a Japanese or Korean doing the same thing. The days when all they did were cheap copies finished 20 years or more ago. Ask the automobile industry who copies who these days. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | I wish the Germans would copy the Japanese electronics in cars. My check engine light is on again. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Good one Mark. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15678
Location: SoCal | Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda have gone way beyond "copying" other brands...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | "Plagarism saves time!"
Please feel free to use that line... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4832
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Keep it light folks....I think we should keep our serious opinions in our other pocket.
And hold until we're all drinking at the same table.
Except for P'ing on Henry. I'm always up for slagging a complete stranger! ;) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Right!!!
Sod the bugger. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2004
Posts: 4413
| Excellent command of Anglo-Saxon there. The Queen would be proud to know you. |
|
| |
guild moves to new hartford