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August 2013
Posts: 16
| Anyone ever have issues with the OCP-1 pickup distorting after removing shims and changing to very light gauge strings?
I recently dropped the action down nice and low, and installed some Martin FX .011-.052 strings in an effort to get a nice, fast action and aid in bending the occasional note. This involved a new nut, carefully slotted to a nice, optimal height, and removing *all* the shims from under the saddle, as well as a minor truss rod tweak.
Acoustically, the guitar plays *really* well, and I've been playing it for several weeks; really loving what was at first a pretty crappy Korean Balladeer...Then, in preparation for an upcoming gig, I plugged it in today...
...The pickup distorts on chords, and generally sounds like total crap. Noodling, individual strings drop in and out of the preamplified sound, and after dinking around with it for a while, it appears that pressing down on the bridge affects the severity- I press, and the problems lessen.
Naturally, I can't play the damn thing with three fingers holding the bridge down- I need to figure out why, and fix it- before the gig on Memorial Day...
I have had guitars in the past with thinline pickups installed under the saddle, where you would get buzz, hum, distortion, and other assorted unwanted artifacts in your preamp sound, and it was explained to me that most of the time, it was because there was an uneven bottom in the saddle slot, or there simply wasn't enough pressure from the strings pressing down on the saddle for the piezo to function properly...
Now, the Balladeer uses a pickup that is basically housed inside of the saddle assembly- the body of the pickup is metal, pretty sturdy- and I assume it would be a lot less prone to the issues mentioned above that can plague a thinline pickup in a saddle slot.
...But here I am- action is fantastic, plays like a dream, but the pickup sounds like crap...
So- before I rip into it, and either up the string gauge, put a shim back in, or both- has anyone ever had an issue such as this?
I'm wondering if I'm right in assuming that drastically changing the break angle of the strings over the bridge (by removing the shims) and lightening the gauge (less tension) is causing the distortion, or if perhaps I might be in need of a new pickup...
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October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | If this preamp has a battery, put in a(nother) new one just to be sure.
Try plugging and unplugging the pickup from the preamp a couple of times. If the contacts are tarnished it may clear things up. You can also rub a regular pencil eraser on the metal contacts of the plug from the pickup to clean off tarnish.
My guess is that if the break angle is sufficient to get a good acoustic sound then it should be enough downforce for the piezo pickups to work. There may be an electrical break in the wiring inside the pickup, which is improved when you press on the top of the pickup. A bad solder joint can crack pretty much invisibly and create electrical problems. Someone with a bit of soldering experience, a sharp tipped soldering iron, and a steady hand might be able to repair your pickup if that is the problem. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Put a shim back in.
And yes... Lowering the saddle changes the break angle, and just lighter strings will lessen the pressure on the saddle pickup.
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August 2013
Posts: 16
| Hello Folks- thanks for the quick replies and advice. Re FlySig- I did replace the battery and even tested the new battery's voltage. I have also ran the preamp off of phantom power, and no matter how it's powered, the distortion is there- that was my first thought. All of the electronics have been gone over- plugged, unplugged, re-plugged. I doubt it's tarnish, with all of that plugging. After all of the dinking around, I came to the conclusion that the issue is with the pickup, and now I'm just trying to sort out whether it's insufficient pressure or internal defect.
RE OMA- thanks for that advice- so, have you experienced this phenomenon before? It was my understanding (although it may have been bad info) that it was acceptable to remove *all* the shims in the quest for better action, and although Ovation recommends 12's as their standard string set, I have heard of plenty of people who go lighter, and none of them have complained that their pickups had issues after doing so.
I guess what I am getting at is that I *really, really* love the way the guitar is set up right now. To think that I will have to raise the action when there is no fret buzz and move to fatter strings that won't allow me to bend an occasional note is kind of an unattractive solution. I mean-if I have to, I will- but I won't like the instrument anymore if I do, because I would have un-done all the things that made it playable and to my liking... |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | I've had saddles so low the strings buzzed all over the neck, but the pickup still worked ok. From what you've written it sound to me like a defective pickup is the most likely culprit. |
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August 2013
Posts: 16
| I have a vintage Yamaha with a thinline undersaddle installed. Over the years, the top moved up a little bit behind the bridge, making the saddle slot not quite perfectly flat on the bottom. That uneven slot bottom has cause the pickup to hum a bit- if you push on the saddle near the low E end, you can actually make it stop...
Since the ovation saddle/pickup is a robust unit with a large metal base, I kind of figured (perhaps wrongly) that it was immune to the uneven slot issue- providing that the slot wasn't ridiculously uneven. That left the "pressure" issue- it has been explained to me that piezos need sufficient downward pressure from the strings to make them work properly. Changing the "break angle" by lowering the top of the saddle in relation to where the strings are anchored at the rear of the bridge will cause decreased pressure. Then, lowering the string gauge to allow bending will also decrease the pressure, as the overall string tension will be lighter.
It should be noted that I didn't go apecrap crazy on string gauge- it's not like I put a set of ernie ball super slinkys on there; it's a set of Martin FX flexible core 11's- just a hair lighter than the 12's that are standard fare for Ovations.
I have contacted the mothership about obtaining a new pickup- if there's anyone left there to answer at this point :-(
In the meantime, I guess I am going to slowly un-do all of the hard work I have done to make this instrument playable, one step at a time, and see what pans out.
At this point- I almost *hope* its a defective pickup, as I would hate to have to resort to heavier strings and higher action just to make the pickup work correctly...
Thanks |
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March 2013
Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | Probably a good idea to get the pickup while you can. I'd still check the slot, the shims seem to spread the load over a certain amount of unevenness. |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | If it was working fine before you removed the shims I would guess that you may have damaged the pickup somehow. I would take the saddle back out and examine the pickup. Might have loosened the wire. Might have dislodged something. |
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Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | It wouldn't hurt to buy spare parts. I've already ordered some of the more unusual bits from Al. |
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June 2012
Posts: 2318
Location: Pueblo West, CO | Since the piezo pickup relies upon string pressure to work, and it works okay when you apply pressure to the pickup, it sounds to me like going to lighter strings and reducing the break angle is the source of your problem.
The first thing I'd do is to put on a different set of strings or slacken the strings and put a shim back in.
Whenever diagnosing a problem, I've found it's best to make only one change at a time.
Edited by DanSavage 2014-05-14 10:18 AM
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August 2013
Posts: 16
| Yeah, I have a new pickup/saddle coming from the mothership- even if it turns out there's nothing wrong with the one in there currently, it never hurts to keep a spare, since they may get really hard to find one day...
I'm going to put a flat shim under the saddle tonight, just to see if it makes a difference, even though the action is perfect the way it is. If that doesn't help, I'll sub the new pickup in with no shim and see what's what. If that doesn't work, I will go up a thousandth on the string gauge, and as a last resort, I'll put that shim back in...one step at a time...
If I have to raise the gauge and shim it, I'll be selling it off. I like it the way it plays now, but I won't like it after I put it back to the way it came as new...
...I doubt I hurt the pickup any when I removed the shims- this ain't my first rodeo, and I'm really careful with that stuff. If it's got issues, it was probably just a dud from the factory. Since I played it unplugged the majority of the time, I can't really say if the problem existed since day one...that's why a new pickup is part of the process of chasing down and killing the issue..
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May 2003
Posts: 425
Location: SE Michigan | I recently acquired a Korean model 1861AX Balladeer. I had a bad problem with plugged in distortion and clipping in and out. I swapped the OP-Pro and the can, I also went over all the internal wiring and solder joints, no help. Ultimately I had to replace the pickup assembly itself. Problem solved. |
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Posts: 16
| ...I'm actually hoping that it's a bad pickup. The action is great currently, and I really don't want to mess with it or the string gauge...I'll know shortly- the pickup should be here any day now... |
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March 2013
Posts: 359
Location: undisclosed | They sent mine Fed Ex without a shipping notice, tracking number or receipt in a padded envelope. I found it on the hood of a parked car. It is in one piece but for the money tacked on for shipping, some $11 you'd think it rated a box and notice. I'm not sure if this is normal for the Ovation crew at New Hartford or a reaction to the crisis? I've requested a itemized receipt as this is a working guitar..... |
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August 2013
Posts: 16
| Yup- it was the pickup. Although it cost me $50 bucks, and was delivered much in the same way as yours (fedex, padded envelope, no ship notice)- I'm actually *glad* that I didn't have to bump the string gauge or shim the saddle up. I'm good to go...A lot of money for what is probably actually a $5 item, but hey- at least it got here fast and it solved my problem... |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret |
Have you guys seen Fenders P&L lately?
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December 2004
Posts: 566
Location: Denmark | I experienced something similar with a pickup. Bad tonal balance, distortion, occasional drop outs. And some sensitivity to downwards pressure. I found that someone sometime had inserted an extra shim on the side of the pickup (rather than under it) thus disallowing the free movement of the pickup assembly in its grove of the saddle. Since removing what shouldn't be there the pickup has worked like a charm. Piezoelectric pickups relies on some amount of contact pressure.
Edited by tpa 2014-05-17 4:47 PM
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Posts: 2318
Location: Pueblo West, CO | Waskel@Work - 2014-05-17 1:18 PM
Have you guys seen Fenders P&L lately?
Nope. What's it show? |
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Balladeer pickup distorting