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Posts: 848
Location: Canada | I have been saving to have the "ultimate" 12 string built, something like a 1688 with slotted headstock etc. Now that this is no longer an option I am considering jumping the gun on a "regular" high end 12 string from New Hartford. It seems that my options are either a 2088GT e.g.,
http://www.amazon.com/Ovation-Adamas-2088GT-5-12-String-Acoustic-El...
or a Guild Orpheum, e.g.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201075649584?_trksid=p2055120.m1438.l2649&s...
I assume that there is a very limited supply of these instruments, and I have not been able to find any reviews or videos of these models. So I am wondering if some of you who may be knowledgeable about them could weigh in and provide some advantages and disadvantages of the respective guitars. Or would there be a non-New Hartford alternative in that price range that I should also consider?
I have been playing Ovation exclusively for the last 10 years or so, but I think I should expand my horizon and actually find the Guild quite attractive (well in the description at least), and preamp is not a necessity.
Edited by d'ovation 2014-05-07 8:09 AM
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Posts: 152
| I played on a 12 string Adamas when I visited the factory last year. I'm not sure if it was that model but it looked like it. What a fantastic guitar. I was instantly smitten by the tone and how easy it was to play.
The Guild 12 strings I've played on are also very nice. They are a very different instrument though. Not as big a sound and a very different tone. |
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Posts: 5328
Location: Cicero, NY | I've never played that Guild 12 but I've played other Guild 12's and most were absolutely fantastic guitars. Nothing leads me to believe this one would be any different. On the flip side, I've played several Adamas 12's and every single one was stellar. If I were in the market? I'd play both but not because I doubted either one but mainly because, as Jimmer pointed out, they really are two different guitars. Completely different tone's and which of the two spoke more to me would be the one coming home. |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Everyone I know, even those who are not fans of roundbacks, say the Ovation/Adamas 12-string is the holy grail. It's because of their necks. SO much easier to play than anything else, and with a bell-like sound you won't get from any other brand. I'm not a big 12-string fan but I have had a LOT of them pass through my shop, and the O/A's were the best and sold the quickest.
Another thing to consider, if you have been playing Ovations exclusively for ten years, you will find wood boxes to be very uncomfortable. When I worked at the factory, my favorite guitar in my personal collection was a Gibson dreadnaught. Of course as an inspector, I had to ("had to"  ) play ovations all day at work. It got to the point that if I were going to go out to play in public I would always take an Ovation because I wanted to sound my best, and even though the Gibson had low action, Ovations are just easier to play. Easier to play = I sound better. |
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Posts: 848
Location: Canada | If I were in the market? I'd play both but not because I doubted either one but mainly because, as Jimmer pointed out, they really are two different guitars.
I think this raises another issue, I don't really think I am comfortable in buying a new guitar unseen and unplayed in this price range. Now I got both of my Ovations from eBay and had issues with one but was very happy with other, but I guess the ONLY way to make a decision would be to play them both side by side. I guess I will have to get out of the chair and actually visit a few stores soon, though I doubt I will be able to find either of them. What I see in stores at the higher end are usually only Martins and Taylors, and they are too generic for my taste ... nice but not great. |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I got a custom made Baxendale that will rock your world.
12 fret 12 string slot head with a neck copied exactly to the specs of my 1688 (b4 I sold it cause the Bax is that good). Has sound side holes in musical notes and sounds absolutely fantastic.
Only reason it might be on the block is because (as usual) the magnificent 2080 longneck twins crush everything in their path and suit my vocal range better. Regardless, this is one of the best playing and sounding 12 string out there....easily on par with the 9k to 12k McPhersons (which are the best currently made 12 strings you can get). Price would be around $4500 give or take. Pics available if you ( or anyone ) is interested. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Oh, Baxendale was the head luthier for Mossman guitars before buying the company outright.
He was also the main luthier for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I've got something you might be interested in for a lot less money. About 10 years ago I was gifted an old (1968-69) Glen Campbell 12 string. Really a beautiful instrument, but it didn't sound all that good. It was one of those guitars that gave Ovation that plasticky reputation.
I had it sent to the factory in late 2006 and a whole new body was put on the old neck. It has a hand laid shiny bowl, the electronics from an FD14 (no controls on the body), and best of all, an adirondack spruce top. It's the best sounding Ovation 12 string I've ever played. That top gives it a warmth that you can't get from sitka.
For the Christmas of 2007, with two guitar playing buddies, I compared my 1688 to the GC 12 to a Ute 12 (on loan from Noah). Here's what I wrote
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=43...
I was wrong in that the GC 12 has the Ovation fan bracing.
If you're interested, send me an email to moody.pi at cox.net. I've got pictures I can send and we can talk price.
The reason I'm selling it is that I do have a 1688 ("Big Blue" , that I've had for 18 years. It's not that it's better. It's got a different sound, better electronics, and a ton of sentimental value built up over the years. If somebody told me that the GC 12 was the only 12 string I could have for the rest of my life, I would not be unhappy in the least.
Edited by moody, p.i. 2014-05-07 4:40 PM
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Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | I've never played a Guild (12 string or otherwise), but I would be suggesting the 1688GT before they're all gone. The hand-laid bowl on my 08C makes a big contribution to the overall sound. The 1688GT may well be the ultimate 12 stringer. My 1685 (basically a 1688 without the bling) is an impressive guitar, considering it had a hard life (previous owner). |
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Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | I would seriously consider Moody's offer. I've played that guitar and it is STELLAR !!!
That said, Guild F412 (New Hartford) is my Go To 12-string these days. |
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Posts: 848
Location: Canada | I already have 12 string legend and balladeer, that's why I aspired to the Adamas to have the different top and sound holes. On the other hand, I found the smaller body and 12 fret of the Guild appealing as well to contrast with my two guitars, but it's gone now ... too bad. |
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Location: Colorado | I am liking the wood-topper twelve too. |
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Posts: 28
Location: Northern Minnesota | d'ovation, I have played an Ovation 12 string Custom Legend for over 30 years (bought it new in 1981). Although a wood top, the tone is wonderful, full body sound, and lots of punch (I play plugged in at a church). I decided to buy another 12 string this year, and looked at Guild, and others including a top end Taylor. What I quickly discovered is that no other guitar I played has the "punch" of the Ovation. They were nice, all had good sound, but I need a guitar to give me the punch I need to lead 400 people in song. The stage presence of the Ovation is truly inspiring. I use a large/soft pick for backpicking and control -- I can play it softly, then suddenly, punch it and the Ovation's sound really sings -- no other guitar I have found has that punch or sound. I play plugged in mostly, I see you don't require that. What I ended up with is an Ovation 1598-MERB (Melissa Etheridge model with the carbon fiber top). It has more bass than my 1658 has, has a better EQ set up, and the playability is, to me, terrific (after I set it up how I like it). Good luck deciding -- it isn't easy.
Edited by mnboy 2014-05-08 1:00 AM
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Location: SoCal | elginacres - 2014-05-07 9:19 PM
I am liking the wood-topper twelve too.
Mark, I'm the exact opposite. Prefer a wood top 6 and an Adamas 12..... |
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Posts: 402
Location: New Hartford CT | I have heard nothing but great things about Guild 12's.
But you should hurry. FMIC has sold Guild to Cordoba out of Oxnard CA. Their manufacturing space is 2,500 sq ft (NH was 67,000) and their website pictures 9 employees.
They are hoping to make 150 guitars/year.
Back in the day Ovation and the New Hartford plant, with all the 'antiquated' machinery, pumped out 20-40 thousand guitars/year. 40,000 vs 150... |
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Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I have owned a few Guild 12's over the years including a JF-65, a JF-30, and an F-212 all of which were made in the Westerly RI plant and were outstanding guitars...but then I played my first Adamas 1688 and it rocked my world (thanks Woz)...go with the 1688 if you can find one or settle for a Guild and be happy (not knowing what you missed)... |
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Location: New Hartford CT | +1, MM
What an amazing group of individuals here - loyal to the end and forever.
Of course a 1688 is the dream...may it never end. A part of me is about the same age as the Ovation business itself and I feel older, the passage of the years. Now it's all been said and done. But I am forever grateful for the impact of Charlie Kaman's dreams and all that followed.
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Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | 12 string? Adamas. Always. Nothing else. Not only because of the higher string tension, that's better accepted by the carbon top. Too bad, you're not in germany, I'd sell you a great black Custom Legend 12 string for a nearly ridiculous price... A-braced, so you'd see every little brace through the wooden top because of the black color AND the high tension. But it sounds... fantastic! 
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Location: Jet City | I've had a good 8 or 10 different 12s (though never owned an Adamas). So far, the keeper's been this one...  |
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Location: SoCal | Surprised that the CL 12-string doesn't have the carved CL bridge. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | My "go to" 12 string is a custom ordered flame top EA-58 in vintage sycamore. Then again, I lean toward SSBs, thin chambered solid bodies, and all things electric. |
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Posts: 79
Location: So Cal | So what qualities are required for an "ultimate" 12 string? I've had more than a few but none play as well as the O's and A's. I think Ovation perfected these a long time ago. Be sure to try it before you by it. Buyers' remorse can eat at you for a long time. |
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Posts: 4039
Location: Utah | The ultimate 12 string would be one which intonates properly and can be tuned.
I bought an Alvarez-Yairi 12 back in 1977. What I really wanted was the Ovation but it cost another $50, which was past my budget from my part time high school job.. That A-Y has been a great guitar and still is. It is acoustic only, but other than that I have no complaints. I've never played an O/A 12 string.
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Location: Colorado | Paul: I hear ya man...but I am very fortunate - owning #43 spoils it for other possible 6-stringers in my hands. |
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Location: Jet City | my first 12 was an alvarez |
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Location: SoCal | elginacres - 2014-05-11 1:20 PM
Paul: I hear ya man...but I am very fortunate - owning #43 spoils it for other possible 6-stringers in my hands.
Understandable Mark. What do you string that puppy with? |
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Location: Colorado | Paul:
#43? When playing a lot, a medium 80/20 bronze like D'Addario EJ12s...because I'd change them every 1 or 2 days....when buying bulk I could get a set for under $2.00. When playing less...usually a silk and steel like EJ40s...or Martin Marquis M-1400...just softer on the fingers. At home lately - K1818 or K1919s...to play for the home team...I like those too. On my 12 string...an old pacemaker...and now the WT Adamas 12- never really used anything other than K1616s...never really saw a need to change. Back in the day in the pit...I had both a Ramirez and a Chet Atkins nylon...depending on the show...the Ramirez I used whatever hard-tensions were around...they seemed to last forever...on the Chet Atkins then and now on Dan Shafer's old custom EA-63, I have used GHS Vanguards...probably more string info than you ever wanted to know...in the end to me...the except for the nylons, the best sounding strings are new ones! Most pros nowadays have a tech who changes every string - everyday. |
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Location: SoCal | Why 80/20's over phos/bronze? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | 80/20's just sound different.
I ain't eloquent enough to describe it, but they are just different.
I use them often. Both EXP11 and Martin.
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Location: Munich, Germany | Tony Calman - 2014-05-10 7:38 AM Surprised that the CL 12-string doesn't have the carved CL bridge. Really? Inlaid rosette and small fretboard inlays -> no carved bridge. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Tough choose I'd buy both..... |
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Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | 80/20's sound better, but they go dead very quickly. That's why most folks use phosphor bronze. |
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Location: Colorado | When changing often...I just like the sound better on the 80/20. Probably just my comfort zone. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | 80/20's and phos/bronze have different sounds. So do phos/bronze mediums and lites. I used 80/20 mediums on my 1537 for a long time, but was never happy with the bass strings. Phos/bronze mediums always sounded good on O round holes but not the multi hole guitars. Made a switch a while back to phos/bronze lites on the 1537 and have been really happy with them.
But I've got some 80/20 mediums and I'll give them a try on the OFC slothead. Can't hurt........ |
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what 12 string to get: Adamas, Guild, or ?