|
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Austin, Tx | Just wondering what the take is on the guitar? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | I don't see it as an improvement over previous models.
They could use the same shape on a Fender acoustic and it would make more sense. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Austin, Tx | Still thinking about getting one, talk me out of it! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Do it! I mean, SOMEONE has to finally buy one, right? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Is the Proto O negatively received and why?
It's Fugly.
It was designed by and for people who don't like Ovations.
If you don't like Ovations, buy something else... Don't change the Ovation.  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | It was poorly advised, poorly executed and poorly received. Other than that I'm sure it's a fine instrument. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | It was the Ted McGinley of Ovations... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | ... I mean Fenders. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | I am surprised at the negativity. One member here has played one and said it sounded great. The design is a total refresh yet pays tribute to the original design elements. The old look is now nearly 50 years old, and in the view of younger adults associated with elderly people. Those who played them in the 1960s and 1970s are now geriatric.
Those of us who have explored the variety in O and A are impressed with a new iteration such as the wood topped Adamas, adding the suspension ring to a wood top. But to the masses it is just another one of those out of date Ovations. They want something belonging to their generation, not to their grandparents' generation.
I think it was a good idea to introduce something new in styling, something much more modern. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Martins sound great, Breedloves sound great, even Taylors sound okay.
I don't think that anybody has said that the Protos sound bad...
I just would give Fender $3500 for one.
But Wait! The prices seem to be going down.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | Well the price is a different issue. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | I am a little sorry for coming off so negative. Still in denial...
If Fender really wants to compete with Taylor and Martin then they should have started a new line (possibly built in CT) instead of derailing an existing one.
Of course if Fender really wanted to compete with Taylor they could just buy Taylor and close down their factories... whatever. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2011
Posts: 402
Location: New Hartford CT | I'm not surprised at the negative comments at all. It's symbolic of Fender's missteps in handling Ovation Instruments and represents the end of the line.
Patriot - I like your avatar, brother. And only posting 10 times in 10+ years...that's got be an OFC record for 'Men of Few Words are the Best Men' award. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I gotta vent this somewhere. Fender bought KMC in what 07-08? They said they had all kinds of ideas to rejuvinate the Ovation brand. Instead, all advertising stopped. They had road shows and a web page, and that was it. If you wanted to play an Ovation, you really only had asian models (and I like asian models -- when they are women). Nothing else.
Then after 4-5 years they come out with the Proto O and that's it. Again, no promotion, no advertising. And then Fender shut the company down because it wasn't profitable? It's starting to look very much like that was the goal from the beginning.
I'm done buying at Guitar Center, and I'll never buy a Fender product....... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2317
Location: Pueblo West, CO | The only Fender product I own is a chipboard guitar case for my Yamaha 6-string that I bought back in 1984. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 848
Location: Canada | The design is a total refresh yet pays tribute to the original design elements. The old look is now nearly 50 years old, and in the view of younger adults associated with elderly people. Those who played them in the 1960s and 1970s are now geriatric.
I disagree, look at Martin and Gibson who have done little change to their models in 80+ years. "Retro" and tradition has always been popular with acoustic guitarists, and I think the success and demand for Ovation re-issues is another indicator for this phenomenon. While Ovation was built on innovation, this may also have been a weakness. Maybe they should have kept producing their succesful 70s models just like Martin and Gibson do with their oldies. And why talk about Proto ... it's all done and over with and less than a blip in rich Ovation history anyway.
Edited by d'ovation 2014-05-20 1:42 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | On the list of things needed to save Ovation from the damage already inflicted by Fender, I don't think a new logo, new soundhole and new headstock would rank high on the list. At least not if I was given the task to do the saving. Doesn't mean that it's not a nice guitar. Just means that it's a solution to a problem that didn't exit, while ignoring the obvious problem that did exist. CLICK ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | if you want one let me know I may still be able to get one |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Personally, there only reason I can THINK of to buy a new guitar might be a newly shaped soundhole |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 21
Location: Austin, Tx | George Frey - 2014-05-20 12:18 PM
I'm not surprised at the negative comments at all. It's symbolic of Fender's missteps in handling Ovation Instruments and represents the end of the line.
Patriot - I like your avatar, brother. And only posting 10 times in 10+ years...that's got be an OFC record for 'Men of Few Words are the Best Men' award.
Yeah but when I write them I wear my old OFC hat! Actually bought my Patriot in '76 back in Houston. Its still mint. I think a restringing is in order...
Edited by Patriot 2014-05-26 9:52 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Al stated "it sounds good" and that's really enough for me. I'm not in love with the headstock, but in the scheme of things, why not try something different. That was what Ovation was all about afterall. If people who already love Ovations really don't like the the design, nothing lost nothing gained. If the new design DID attract new people to the brand, then all is good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | I have always been fascinated with a branch of design called industrial design. It encompasses a wide variety of things. Raymond Loewey is the recognized founder of the discipline. I actually saw him when I was a child touring the Studebaker auto factory where my grampa worked his entire life. Loewey had a place in the design studio where he completed a number of Studebaker car designs, most notably the Avanti. He also designed the current paint scheme for Air Force One, the interior layout of the space station, double decker Greyhound buses, the current Shell and Exxon logos, the swirl Coke bottle, was responsible for the waist concept of car design, designed a number of refrigerators (a few of which are actually collectors items now), and was responsible for inventing streamlining first in locomotives and later on in cars. When he was 17 years old he invented the rubber band windup balsa wood airplane. In fact, it would be easier to make a list of things he didn't design as opposed to things he did work on.
I have thoroughly studied Loewey and have two books about him. I think the proto O is probably something along the lines a genius like Loewey would have envisioned as an updated look for Ovation. From a designer's standpoint, the guitar fulfills the awesome aesthetics the original O's had. I think they're incredible and would give anything to own one. It's too bad it will never be developed into a multi soundhole version as well. I liken it to the redesign of the Volkswagen beetle. Very true to the lines of the original but a completely new product in its own right. If I knew where I could obtain one I'd sell everything I have to raise the money to buy it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2317
Location: Pueblo West, CO | DaveKell - 2014-05-29 1:31 PM
...When he was 17 years old he invented the rubber band windup balsa wood airplane... Hmmm... I'm not flaming you, but I'm not sure Loewey invented the rubber-powered airplane. If you have a source, I'd appreciate seeing it. It's generally acknowledged that the first flight of a rubber band powered model airplane was made in 1871 by French scientist Alphonse Pénaud when he flew his model in front of the French Academy of Sciences. (See: Alphonse Pénaud - The Planophore) The rubber powered helicopter dates to the late 1700s. After Pénaud 's demonstrations, toy makers started creating rubber-powered flying toys. "In 1878, Bishop Milton Wright brought this toy home to his sons Wilbur (age 12) and Orville (age 8) and started them dreaming of flight. It soon wore out, but they made copy after copy. They were still making copies to delight their nieces and nephews in 1903 just before they made their first powered flights in a real airplane." See: History of Aviation and Rubber-Power |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | DanSavage - 2014-05-29 4:02 PM
DaveKell - 2014-05-29 1:31 PM
...When he was 17 years old he invented the rubber band windup balsa wood airplane... Hmmm... I'm not flaming you, but I'm not sure Loewey invented the rubber-powered airplane. If you have a source, I'd appreciate seeing it. It's generally acknowledged that the first flight of a rubber band powered model airplane was made in 1871 by French scientist Alphonse Pénaud when he flew his model in front of the French Academy of Sciences. (See: Alphonse Pénaud - The Planophore) The rubber powered helicopter dates to the late 1700s. After Pénaud 's demonstrations, toy makers started creating rubber-powered flying toys. "In 1878, Bishop Milton Wright brought this toy home to his sons Wilbur (age 12) and Orville (age 8) and started them dreaming of flight. It soon wore out, but they made copy after copy. They were still making copies to delight their nieces and nephews in 1903 just before they made their first powered flights in a real airplane." See: History of Aviation and Rubber-Power
It's in the first few pages of a book about him. I guess I could scan it and post the image? Actually, he was 11, not 17. I had no ideas rubber bands were around in 1871. It's interesting your post referenced the French Academy of Sciences. Loewey was French. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 848
Location: Canada | I think he may not have invented THE model airplane but A model airplane:
http://content.lib.auburn.edu:81/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/lad... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | merlin666 - 2014-05-29 5:50 PM
I think he may not have invented THE model airplane but A model airplane:
http://content.lib.auburn.edu:81/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/lad...
You're probably right... or I guess we both are to an extent. In any event, his life story is fascinating. Talk about being in the right place at the right time with the right idea! I still think the proto O might be a concept along the lines he would come up with and that is an awesome example of forward thinking guitar design. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 402
Location: Taxed To Death State | Personally I feel change is good sometimes. I like the new headstock design but really don't dig the bridge and the odd shaped sound hole. Like everyone else said, I bet it plays and sounds great considering who made them. From a marketing standpoint I don't think Fender did their homework on the design change. I work for a large advertising agency and while I'm not involved with clients, I do know that when the design team comes up with new concepts for clients, they hire focus groups, conduct surveys, hire more focus groups and really dig to see if these new concepts are well received by the public. You think maybe they'd make one or two of these puppies and get them in the hands of say folks here on this web site or other guitar consumers too get feedback before investing a ton of time engineering them and building a bunch. I certainly don't know enough of how musical instrument marketing works but definitely makes you wonder what went on in the marketing dept. at Fender with this new model. I guess time will never tell where they were going with these new model designs. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | danomyte - 2014-05-30 5:34 AM
Personally I feel change is good sometimes. I like the new headstock design but really don't dig the bridge and the odd shaped sound hole. Like everyone else said, I bet it plays and sounds great considering who made them. From a marketing standpoint I don't think Fender did their homework on the design change. I work for a large advertising agency and while I'm not involved with clients, I do know that when the design team comes up with new concepts for clients, they hire focus groups, conduct surveys, hire more focus groups and really dig to see if these new concepts are well received by the public. You think maybe they'd make one or two of these puppies and get them in the hands of say folks here on this web site or other guitar consumers too get feedback before investing a ton of time engineering them and building a bunch. I certainly don't know enough of how musical instrument marketing works but definitely makes you wonder what went on in the marketing dept. at Fender with this new model. I guess time will never tell where they were going with these new model designs.
During the 40+ years I owned a sign company I did a lot of projects for ad agencies. My biggest customer was the prolific freelance art director Brian Berlusconi. I got to see my work on two Ford commercials. He lived here in north Texas in a very upscale neighborhood and every Thursday evening flew to Manhattan and back home Monday morning. I always liked the fact that EVERY project for an ad agency was accompanied with an impossible last minute deadline I thrived on. With the added advantage of being able to charger five times my going rate for anybody else because of their enormous budgets. I also got to do projects for celebrities with ad agencies. They were immediate payers as well. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2014
Posts: 402
Location: Taxed To Death State | Dave the advertising business can be really neat. I always get a kick out of telling my kids "we made that commercial" when I see them on TV. I work with a woman here who worked on the 2007 Hamer (New Hartford) color collectors catalog at another agency. It's really nice. She gave me the copy. They made some frigging sweet solids man. Those are the ones to watch. I bet those will be very desirable some day. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | danomyte - 2014-05-30 4:34 AM
Personally I feel change is good sometimes.
Yes, a brand needs to keep evolving. Build on top of the good features you have, but don't let the product get stale or stodgy.
danomyte - 2014-05-30 4:34 AM
You think maybe they'd make one or two of these puppies and get them in the hands of say folks here on this web site or other guitar consumers too get feedback before investing a ton of time engineering them and building a bunch. I certainly don't know enough of how musical instrument marketing works but definitely makes you wonder what went on in the marketing dept. at Fender with this new model.
We would be the worst place to bring something radically new because we are for the most part old, stale, and stodgy! Many of us were inspired by Glen Campbell in the 60's or the singer-songwriters of the 70's. A brand cannot attract new young buyers by appealing to old throwbacks like us.
Imagine the magazine or tv ad: "Newest Adamas model gets 5 Star review from a bunch of old guys, but they still prefer the styling on guitars from 45 years ago".
Ovation/Adamas could still sell us OFCers leading edge technology guitars, and we would appreciate the latest improvements. But to sell to young new buyers they need to create the image that an O or A is a fresh modern instrument. I hate to say it, but O/A needs to compete with the image of Seagull and Taylor as being modern and hip.
So they wrapped up the latest (and best) innovations in the industry with some new styling. I think it was a smart move, but too late to save the company. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Maybe this was not a case of being negatively received.
.
Maybe it was a case of vast dis-interest.
.
Now the price they were asking... that would be largely responsible for any negatively.
.
Edited by Slipkid 2014-05-30 8:53 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2012
Posts: 2317
Location: Pueblo West, CO | DaveKell - 2014-05-29 2:54 PM
It's in the first few pages of a book about him. I guess I could scan it and post the image? Actually, he was 11, not 17. I had no ideas rubber bands were around in 1871. It's interesting your post referenced the French Academy of Sciences. Loewey was French.
Here's an excerpt from Loewey's book, "Never Leave Well Enough Alone":
See: http://books.google.com/books?id=ZFdl0gC5P50C&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=A...
I can see from what is written that he was one of the earliest builders and in on the ground floor of not only model aviation, but of aviation, itself.
So, I guess you could say he invented the prototype for the model airplane business.  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | C'mon guys. Yes, the OFC seems to be an old fart club, but you could show a Martin or Taylor to a focus group of kids and they wouldn't know how old it was. You could show the same focus group an old Adamas and they'd think it was revolutionary compared to the Martin or Taylor. But they'd want the Martin or Taylor because that's what today's stars are playing. If Fender had any Ovations in the hands of the stars, like Ovation used to do, the young crowd would buy them. They just weren't out there. Instead, they had all the Celebrities in the stores. Taylor took the opposite approach and had all the stars playing their expensive guitars and they didn't have cheap entry level Taylors in the stores. I'm not saying that Taylor's aproach was better, since someone who couldn't afford a Taylor would have to buy a different guitar, but Taylor and Martin seem to be doing OK without coming out with any new designs. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6994
Location: Jet City | I'm in agreement with the semi-retired lawyer... 100%
New innovations were not needed. Relevant endorsers and signature USA models were, along with the marketing to back the endorsements up. I love Melissa, Al, and Kaki, but that just plain wasn't nearly enough.
RIP Ovation |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Everyday I go out and Play my Ovations on the Street. (if it ain't raining)
Everyday I get compliments on my Ovations.
If they were in the stores people would have bought them.
But that is all water under the bridge.
|
|
| |
Is the Proto O negatively received and why?