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Location: Upper Left USA | State of the OFC Union:
We're a bunch of financially challenged SOB's... Rich in life, love and appreciation for obscure and unloved objects... just not a lot of disposable income left amongst us! What happens? If an OFCer comes into money do they wander off and start tracking Martins, Taylors or Nationals? In the last six months I have seen some incredible customs, prototypes and otherwise cool guitars offered up here and had to pull the trembling lower lip and let them go. Gone... like tears in rain... Over the last year I have had my kids move in/move out and after a 8 or so months of being unemployed my wife starts a new job next week! The guitar fund has vanished, the quick sales liquidated and the hard sales already in the past. The GAS has never subsided, in fact the down time has lead to closer research and appreciation of some of the Ovation prototypes and specials being offered up. Looking forward to next year and perhaps a spike in the GAS fund! |
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Location: NJ | I still have plenty of good deals on slightly used USA stuff.
this may be your last chance before they truly become collector's items ...... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We've managed during this downturn and survived a few milestones. The only thing curbing my GAS is my hope of retirement soon and the fact that I keep satisfying it little by little. Unfortunately, I've had a hard time justifying all the guitars I have. I need either a jam partner or the motivation of an OVATION GATHERING. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | It is serously tough out there.
I've looked longingly at several of the pieces for sale here and have several I am trying to move for a variety of reasons. I've sold quite a few over the years, but never had so much trouble moving a guitar as seems to be the norm now.
I keep hearing that the economy is recovering, but I see no sign of it. I work in a building staffed almost completely by front-line social workers and counselors. A regional director for one of the largest social providers in the state of New York told me just a week ago that they cannot keep up with the increasing requests for help. Wherever this "recovery" is, it ain't around here. In fact, it seems to be getting worse, not better. |
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Location: Flahdaw | patchmcg - 2013-12-03 9:29 PM
Wherever this "recovery" is, it ain't around here. In fact, it seems to be getting worse, not better.
It's a "jobless recovery". I guess we're supposed to be satisfied with that.............. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | I'm broke |
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Location: SoCal | It's all Bush's fault......
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Well just a reminder about not talking politics, but I think economics and GAS for guitars is fair game.. and interesting.
I have noticed that much like any other time, nothing has really changed except for maybe disposable income for many. I have been unemployed for nearly 3 years now. My unemployment ran out a couple of months ago. We are still surviving, but it's hard. Luckily we have a very limited number of bills, and they are getting paid, but no vacations, and fun has to be carefully created.
On the other side of things, I have seen a few businesses, that weren't really doing all that well in the first place go under, but at the same time I have seen SEVERAL new small businesses and even larger stores move into the area. Just today I saw a local landmark in the boating industry Reddin Marine Supply is OPENING a new store in Ballard. (yes, where the deadliest catch guys are from). Many other businesses have expanded. Lots of minimum wage jobs available and if you can survive on that, they seem to be doing well.
There are some small businesses I know who usually thrive on the holiday season for one reason or another and while this holiday season has been dismal so far, they are also claiming that this year as a whole has been a record breaker for sales overall.
On a higher scale there are several road construction projects happening across the state and for those that were aware of the major bridge collapse we had over the summer here on the ONLY major North/South route on the west coast.... Not only was the bridge back open within 30 days of collapse, it's been fully repaired within 6 months.
All in all, I'd say things are getting better in general. It's slow, it's steady and people are holding onto their savings. Speaking of which, people I know who had stocks that lost ALL of their investments in the recession, are pretty happy campers now that those same stocks are worth a LOT more. Of course those who had to bail when the prices started to fall along with everything else are not too happy.
I agree with MWoody though... I have seen some amazing, priceless pieces on here in recent months including my own OFC II #1 of 8, the prototype. But I think things will pick up in 2014. Not sure why, it's just a feeling.
If you really want to boost the economy... BUY MORE GUITARS !!!!! Especially if they are listed in the For Sale section of the OFC !!!!
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Location: Flahdaw | Well, I expect to continue to see great deals popping up in the For Sale section.
Taxes are going up, insurance is going up, tolls, rentals, hotels, air travel, food,...ALL going up. Unless you are making more today than 5 years ago, then you are poorer. I (and very few others) don't see normal folk's income going up in the next few years. They say the income disparity is getting worse every year (despite whomever is in power) between the rich and the poor, and I certainly believe it. The fabulously rich are getting richer, and I haven't heard a WORD about tax changes since the election. (Can anyone say "Campaign Donors"???) The only one's feeling the higher tax pain are in the middle class. |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | darkbarguitar - 2013-12-04 6:42 AM
Well, I expect to continue to see great deals popping up in the For Sale section.
Taxes are going up, insurance is going up, tolls, rentals, hotels, air travel, food,...ALL going up. Unless you are making more today than 5 years ago, then you are poorer. I (and very few others) don't see normal folk's income going up in the next few years. They say the income disparity is getting worse every year (despite whomever is in power) between the rich and the poor, and I certainly believe it. The fabulously rich are getting richer, and I haven't heard a WORD about tax changes since the election. (Can anyone say "Campaign Donors"???) The only one's feeling the higher tax pain are in the middle class.
+1 to all of this. We have had exactly 2 raises I think since 2008, both for 1%. Living in NY state is becoming a massive burden tax-wise and is only getting worse. Cost of living has continued to vault skyward: ie. looking for something to fix for dinner yesterday, I noted that top sirloin steak was $12.99/pound! I would LOVE to get out of here, but despite my experience and success in my field, I can't even land an interview, so I stay put because I at least still have a job. It also does not help that in modern america, if a family hopes to re-locate, they have to land TWO jobs to maintain their income from one location to the next or risk financial ruin. The spouse may luck out and find another job quickly after moving, but the odds are very much against it unless you mind trading your professional career for one of those minimum wage poverty anchors.
So we're stuck hoping to GOD that we can somehow right our family's ship before this let's-float-every-last-stinking-penny-to-the-rich economy flips us totally turtle.
Yeah......seems I'm a bit cranky this morning.......
Edited by Patch 2013-12-04 7:32 AM
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Location: Texas | Bob, The majority of the country is ok with the way things are. The middle class is just going to have to get use to less GAS, selling more guitars, paying almost as much for a loaf of bread as a gallon of gas, never eating steak again and considering hamburger a luxury...and if one believes the economy is getting better, you might want to look at why. No politics, but fact is that our country is printing money out the waazoo to pump up the market and provide a false sense of Happy Days are Here Again. Once that stops...our country will react no different than a junkie going cold turkey. There are a few of us living in irresponsible times, trying to be responsible. I fear the cows are going to come home. Adamas being built by the Asians will be the least of our concerns. No one can afford them anyway, regardless of where they're built. |
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Location: Caribou, ME | I'm fortunate to have a good job. I did have an unplanned "vacation" from October 1st to October 16th. I may have another unplanned vacation in January. We'll see.
I'm very lucky to have that job and my wife is a supervisor at the Dept of Health and Human Services. We live within our means, which helps.
I had an excellent 2013 because of a deal I struck with a local pawn shop that is going through some massive changes. I must have flipped 60 or 70 guitars, plus saxes, accordions, etc. I made scandalous money on ebay but I know it's a bubble; once it's gone, it's gone.
Through some personal epiphanies I have finally realized that while I might be lured into a guitar purchase on a whim, I know in my heart that I will go back to one particular acoustic, one particular electric, and one bass. That dulls the need to "upgrade", if you dig. So I haven't been spending big on guitars this year. I still buy Applauses all the time but that's a different disease altogether. |
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Location: Flahdaw | This thread has every ounce of potential of getting highly political and subsequently locked, so I'll just say this now. Americans have voted every single one of this idiots (left AND right) into power, and WE let them screw us to the wall. Often we didn't know they were idiots when we voted them in. Some were corrupted afterwards, but I think most were sleazebags long before they fooled us.
It funny how few of us question how someone who gets elected to a job paying $150,000 a year can leave office 10 years later as a multi millionaire, and they didn't even have a side job. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | South Dakota is one of the very few states that is doing BETTER now than before the resession. Hot Springs itself saw quite a decline for awhile there - businesses closing and lots of homes for sale. But it's really been picking up this year. There are several new businesses in town, fewer vacant storefronts, lots of new people moving in.
The only reason I haven't bought more guitars here is that I already have just about everything that I want. I have a three Adamas', one an OFC I, and one my beautiful baritone. I have my beloved LX. I finally found a hollowbody that fits me too. I even have a custom made banjo now. Plus lots of other goodies.
So anything I buy here, at least for a while, will be for resale. If the price is right and I can make a decent profit, I will buy it.
So, if times are getting tougher - move to South Dakota! We'll have jam sessions every day!  |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | MWoody - 2013-12-03 5:33 PM
We're a bunch of financially challenged SOB's... Rich in life, love and appreciation for obscure and unloved objects... just not a lot of disposable income left amongst us!
Uh... Yup! 
I would like to continue the buying-and-selling thing, but I have reached an impasse.
The guitars that I have fall into two classes...
Beaters and Beauties-that-I-won't-sell. (at least in the current market)
Guitars that I play-out. And some road-warriors with with 30-40 years of experience.
And guitars that I ain't selling at bargain-basement prices.
I am still an unemployed street musician.
And it is 34° at Noon, so I won't be playing today.
So, I won't be buying anything in the For Sale section today.
But I will look-on with longing at the guitars that pass-by...
Knowing that I will probably never buy a fendrOvation...
So these used beauties are as good as it gets.
Hey... You can't improve on perfection! 
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I like where I live and what I have, but maybe if I had someone to jam with every day, I'd buy more Ovations. I just don't want to have to move to South Dakota to find out. No offense Alison, Hot Springs is fantastic and I had a great time at the Black Hills gathering.
One issue I have, that many other OFCers may share, is the lack of recent new Ovations to lust over. In the past few years, the only new ones that gave me GAS were the 2011 and 2012 "Collectors". I know they were actually called Limited Editions. I bought the 2011, thinking it would be the last and then the came out with the 2012. I liked it much better, but the price was quite a bit higher, so I didn't buy one. I might consider trading my 2011 for a 2012 if somebody wants to do that.
Before that, the worst GAS attack I had for a new one was the Wood Topped Adamas that they took on the Roadshow. The economy was down at that time and some insecurity about my pending retirement and some other issues probably put the dampers on that purchase.
Recently, my economic issues have been trivial compared to many, but maybe when we get the retirement and downsizing figured out, if I have any room for more guitars, I might get back in the game. I did buy the UKII from an OFCer this past year, bought the 97 Collector off Craigslist about 18 months ago, with the help and recommendation of Proffessor BB, and bought the Viper off Craiglist about 2 years ago, so I've been picking up a few bargains. A 2005 Collector and a VXT are still on my list, but the list is way shorter than it used to be. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | (Oops. Got a phone call and hit "Submit" again.)
Edited by Mark in Boise 2013-12-04 3:00 PM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I'm lucky because I can't play an electric guitar for sh*t, so a UKII and a VXT are OFF my GAS hitlist. No electric guitars of any description are needed in my collection. Having the opportunity to actually have each of the above in my home at different times, on loan, for an extended period helped me come to that conclusion with no financial outlay, thanks to the ever generous Aussie James. I thought I needed an acoustic bass. But... Nah! Maybe an upright (double) bass? I'm too long in the tooth to learn fretless and it's really a bit of a luxury. WAAAY too far down my list of priorities to even consider. So my GAS shopping list is really short - I just need a 12 string. And..... I've got one on loan at the moment from..... yup, AJ comes good again. Every guitar freak needs an Aussie James in their lives. I've got no disposable income at present, but at least my list of temptations is a short one. I've got my ideal bass rig and the best acoustic I've ever owned. (Yes, even better IMO than the '05C) The Folklore is just icing on the cake and if I never own a 12er, then my life will still be liveable. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Hey Muzz, you could buy that 1688 on eBay, and I'll give you $500 and a 1685 for it. Then we'll both be in 12 string heaven. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Muzz, incompetence has never stopped me from doing anything. I'm working slowly at playing electrics and I suppose I've made some improvement over the past couple of years. I had a Hamer Duotone that I loved to look at, but never used, so I sold it over on the Hamer forum. Probably should have kept it and I wouldn't be thinking about a VXT. The only thing I really need now is to play more. My excuse of lack of time hasn't really applied lately. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Don't let lack of talent stop you... I play "acoustic-style" music...
Even when I am playing an electric guitar
I have a VXT anyway. Got a Korean Hamer too.
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2013-12-05 12:08 AM
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Location: NJ | I play music style music |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Let's see ... topic has veered from State of OFC to ... state of GAS and economy ... politics ... why we play and what we play ... COOL !!!
Wife and I got to talking last night about "change". Her family has done a Craft Day on the Friday after Thanksgiving every year since the early 60's. Back before all the black-friday crap, you know it was like a freakkng Normal Rockwell day. Knit a few pairs of mittens you would give away as xmas gifts. Make a picture frame of your family. Scrap books, you know stuff like that.
But over the span of 50 years it's pretty much fizzled out. Family is spread all over the world, those that do show up just chat on their cellphones, 3rd generation of rugrats screamng, etc. Wifes sisters (6 of them) are all depressed why can't it be like the Good Old Days. Well you know what, BECAUSE SHITE CHANGES and it's NOT the good old days any more. MOVE ON
Don't dwell on the past (when you could buy a USA ovation at a real Music Store), nor over-think the future (what will become of ovation or the OFC). Just ENJOY THE DAY. You are surrounded by good friends, good music, good instruments, some level of healthiness and other than that FTFF. If you are reading this you are a) not dead, b) are able to at least read and string a few words together, c) you have electricity and a computer or smartphone and d) you probably have a guitar to play.
Consider ourselves lucky. Maybe not as licky as we'd like to be, but in the big picture DAMN LUCKY none the less. |
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Location: Bristol England | or not as lucky as we'd like to be.
However a big +1 standing. |
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Location: Caribou, ME | Being licky is a good thing too. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Oops
Edited by BobG 2013-12-05 9:53 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | "Maybe not a licky as we'd like to be"
Personally, I consider myself lucky that I'm still as licky as I was 30 years ago. My "parts" aren't leaky (if you know what I mean), and I'm surely no one's lackey. Well, looky there....I 'm pretty lucky after all. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I hope my original rant communicated that I was broke but still optimistic and that I find comfort in the company of you sick B!%#^... Besides... abstinence makes the heart grow fonder...
Edited by MWoody 2013-12-05 10:05 AM
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Location: Boise, Idaho | When Dave said his wife had 6 sisters, I immediately felt sorry for him, possibly for the first time. Holiday gatherings must have been a real blast. I felt lucky that my wife only had one sister. But then when he said he wasn't as licky as he used to be, I just got distracted. I didn't need any cheering up, but he did it anyway. I just wish he would have done it with a different visual. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | MWoody - 2013-12-05 8:04 AM
I hope my original rant communicated that I was broke but still optimistic and that I find comfort in the company of you sick B!%#^... Besides... abstinence makes the heart grow fonder...
I got it.. and me too |
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Location: Tennessee | Broke but not broken
Lucky but down on my luck
Not troubled by my trouble
Not missing what I miss
Won't give in to giving up
Won't get down over being down
Just playing what I play
Just loving what I love
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | If that's not a lyric, or prescription for Life; it shoud be.
Edited by seesquare 2013-12-05 2:38 PM
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Location: Utah | Despite the conspiracy of CEOs and DC politicians to squash the wages of my and my wife's professions, we have a decent standard of living compared to 99.9% of humans who have ever lived.
I'd sure love to buy the NOS Breadwinner offered recently, or Al's a/e Patriot with the new FET preamp. And I sure would love to order the perfect custom Adamas.
With all 3 kids being seniors this year, I feel I am on the cusp of having disposable income commensurate with my achievements. Which has to be balanced against mandatory retirement in 12 years without the pension this profession used to have.
There's always hope. Meanwhile, there are some nice instruments in this house already. So I can't really complain. |
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | What Standing said is truer than true. We are a privileged lot indeed and we are fortunate to own and play some of the finest guitars ever made. Desire is the root of suffering,however, and many are not content with the blessings which they have been privileged to experience.
The glass can be half empty or totally full depending on how the holder wishes to perceive it. It is all up to us!! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I think Arthur was saying his glass was half frozen! |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I'm a bit more 'Provincial' in my outlook. but need more space in the music room before I could get another guitar in there.
Edited by fillhixx 2013-12-10 12:31 AM
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Location: 6 String Ranch | being on a fixed income will limit you but I think I'll splurge after the new year's celebration and get one of those new black Snarks. I hear they are great. |
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Location: Colorado | I'm fortunate...a couple nice guitars, good friends,,,a love for good golf playing (not realized yet)...amazing friends I see every few years with a common interest in rich tonewoods and sometimes lyrachord backs...put to use to try to make music - and try to make better music.I've played the top notch stuff, but there is still joy in noodling on a beater. |
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| Yowzer..... interesting to see how many here are facing challenge. I can say that good guitar sales are really hurting... my region's oldest and best Gibson dealer is feeling the hurt.. and it looks like big Box Guitar Center might even fall down...
I started my own business years ago, so I can't say I feel the pain of being out of work, or laid off.... but I can say it hurts bad here too. I went from buying Glorious instruments to..... cheap stuff at the pawn shop to fix. Sometimes I stumble across a winner though. Craptastic economics aren't helping too many people....
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Location: south east Michigan | IMHO, today you can buy a $400 guitar that 25 years ago would cost $800. Even the entry lowest level guitars are far better than the cheese cutters I started with. With a few exceptions I think that with any guitar over $2000 you're paying for fancy inlays, a fancy finish, an endorsement deal, or worst of all... to have a qualified luthier take an ice pick, a lite cigarette, and a bicycle chain to make it look "relic".
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Which brings us back around to the thread topic.
Ovation lived it that meat & potatoes range of $800 to $2000. That part of the market has taken the worst beating and has to be the main reason for the demise of the USA made Ovation.
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Spot on Brad..
Interesting observation from another industry with the EXACT same problem. Bayliner/Meridian boats. Bayliner was analogous to Ovation and Meridian analogous to Adamas both owned by Brunswick which would be analagous to KMC or now FMIC. In any case, they had to stop making their big, made in USA boats not for lack of interest in the boats... which is also a niche crowd like Ovation?Adamas, but because they were their own USED boats Competition. Just like you can buy a really nice used Ovation that was retailing for over $700 for $300 now. It might even be in essentially unplayed condition. No manufacturer can compete with that and to make it worse, there is actually something to be said for a pre-owned, well cared for guitar. The real kicker with Ovation unlike boats.. and unlike most other guitars unless we're talking solid-bodies, Ovation's don't get old. We've seen it, we've owned them... the well played 30+ year old guitar that still plays like new. I think it's pretty safe to say that the percent of Ovation guitars that are still playable after 10, 20, 30 years... is WAY higher than any other brand. It's going to be a long time before the well runs dry enough for Ovation to jump back into the market in a big way unless something really changes in a dramatic way.
As far as some of the beauties in the For Sale section, those will eventually go to collectors who can swing it. The economy is just a cycle and will come back sooner than later. But that's not going to change the fact that the used market is flooded with Ovation guitars.
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Location: Flahdaw | I'm pretty sure you can buy a used Taylor for about half the price of a new one, but they are still selling the hell out of new guitars. Just sayin'..... |
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Location: NJ | I've listed many great bargains in the for sale section to NO replies |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | darkbarguitar - 2014-01-03 6:05 PM
I'm pretty sure you can buy a used Taylor for about half the price of a new one, but they are still selling the hell out of new guitars. Just sayin'.....
That is likely true, but it's a different market. Just go to Musicians Friend and narrow down to Taylor guitars and set it to Highest to Lowest Price... they start at $7,000+ and have over 120 models over $2000. Less than 50 models under $1000.
Now it's not really fare to compare new Ovation prices now although they have some of the highest ever, but no where's near, nor have they ever been near, $7000. Most of the line has been under $2000
This was where my analogy to boats came in. Ovation is the "everyone's" guitar. It's the workhorse, just like Bayliner. The boat equal to Taylor is something like SeaRay or even Nordic Tug who had to REOPEN after going out of business to meet the demand of people trying to buy boats that tip the million dollar scale.
For boats the market is under 30K or over a million, and for guitars I think the main market is under $500 or over $5000. I could be all wrong on this, I just think Ovation/Adamas never having a "high end" as in "high priced" prestige model, is biting them in the butt now. It's never been their way. It's always been about Affordable/Quality guitars.. but the market now is "looking for a bargain" or "more money than brains" nothing in the middle.
For the looking for a bargain group... there are plenty of Ovation's out there... and frankly Ovation never has really attracted the "more money than brains" crowd...
Fun topic... Interesting to see how it reads in another 10 years.
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | alpep - 2014-01-03 7:19 PM
I've listed many great bargains in the for sale section to NO replies
And I am sincerely broke... Or I woulda bought that 1778T.
Or one of those discount Adamii.
As to competition from Used Ovations...
I can find more that one LX on d'Bay for much less than a Taylor.
And price aside... I would rather have an Ovation.
Even at a good price... a Taylor is still a frikkin' Taylor.
And Fendrovation's competition is real Ovations.
I have a 40 year-old Artist that sounds great, is quite loud and cost me $118.
I have a 35 year-old Folklore that plays fine, sounds great, $252.
Or my '96 Folklore that I scored for $249... Whadda Deal.
Now Fendrovation expects me to pay over a Thousand Dollars for a re-branded Ultra?
Y'all realize that Al has some Adamii for the price of New Korean Elite.
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Location: Flahdaw | It's really mirrors the "State of the Country".
Mostly anything that sells to "middle America" is hurting right now. The media can try to spin it any way they want, but the economy is NOT good. The unemployment rate may be dropping, but the jobs are for lower pay, often part time (so they don't have to provided Obamacare), and people are reluctant or unable to spend any discretionary income on toys.
You want to see an industry that's hurting? Look at the golf industry, which REALLY benefited from the robust economy of the 90's and early 2000's. Many private courses are shutting down or losing big money. Many will try to go public to save themselves, but there are fewer middle class golfers able to spend time and money on the sport. If they ARE playing, they are happy with their old equipment....they are not buying the latest and greatest, trying to gain an extra 5 yards of distance.
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | arthurseery - 2014-01-04 2:21 PM And I am sincerely broke... Thats never stopped you from buying a few guitars in the past, OMA! |
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August 2007
Posts: 1008
Location: Tuscany, Italy | Brad Durasa - 2014-01-03 12:34 AM
IMHO, today you can buy a $400 guitar that 25 years ago would cost $800. Even the entry lowest level guitars are far better than the cheese cutters I started with. With a few exceptions I think that with any guitar over $2000 you're paying for fancy inlays, a fancy finish, an endorsement deal, or worst of all... to have a qualified luthier take an ice pick, a lite cigarette, and a bicycle chain to make it look "relic".
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Which brings us back around to the thread topic.
Ovation lived it that meat & potatoes range of $800 to $2000. That part of the market has taken the worst beating and has to be the main reason for the demise of the USA made Ovation.
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State of the OFC Union...