|
|
Joined:
May 2006
Posts: 4232
Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | It's been a while since I had to move a guitar on eBay. But sometimes you just can't wait forever to sell something on a forum or on Craigs List, as many here can attest. So I finally had to put my 2000C on the digital block. I had heard the fees had changed, but I was stuck because there is ZERO legit competition to that fat gorilla of a website!
I was pleased with the final bid amount of $850 + $65 shipping. But between ebay and paypal fees, I can't help but feel I got a bit soaked to the tune of right at $119! From my perspective, that's a whopping 13% inverse tax rate for which I receive an admittedly large pool of potential bidders immediately followed by the nerve-wrecking ordeal of completing the transaction and shipping to a total stranger who may or may not treat you fairly regardless of the condition your shipment arrives in.
Around here, I know that if something goes amiss, the people involved will work it out like two grown, respectful adults.
Listen, I don't mind paying a fair fee. But fees this high require that your item be bid fairly well up there to come out even resembling OK. If you're a business, you can build those fees into your pricing structure, but if you're just a guy selling some extra stuff now and again, it kind of bites.
To put it another way, I would have much rather sold this to someone here for a great deal than donate to some digital monopoly.....
OK, OK, I've been going for nearly 15 hours straight today and I'm kinda tired I guess. I'll stop ranting now. I'll be myself again after some sleep.....Sorry.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Yeah that sucks. The best time to be a seller is when you are not that interested in selling (you can afford to keep the price where you want it and wait). |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Brisbane Australia | I hear you  And like any 'monopoly' that gets out of control there will be a backlash (I hope). They seem to be discriminating against the 'small' seller. And don't get me started on the cost of shipping from the USA to Australia!! I have bought guitars from Greece, Holland and the UK and they are shipped to Oz for about 1/2 to 2/3s of all but the very best shipping quotes from the USA and Canada. And the variation from the USA is HUGE!!! from the cheapest to the most expensive.
I hope that the people in forums continue to be civilised and helpful. We all have a lot in common, and I trust that extends to respect for each other. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Alpep and I have had long conversations about eBay's doin's over the years. It's really unfortunate but all of the "new" eBay is a DIRECT result of the scammers not only scamming buyers and sellers, but eBay as well. On one hand you can "say" buyer beware, but when push comes to shove, if people aren't happy buying and selling than eBay takes the rap, and they learned early on how NOT to be the scapegoat.
As far as shipping to Australia goes.. that's the US Post Office. I have done the research and tracked down what I believe is a TYPO in the master book made several years ago regarding overall size. I don't recall the details at the moment, but when I sat down and started comparing the shipping requirements to different countries there was an AND instead of an OR on one of the ways to measure an item ONLY for Australia. The problem is that there is no method that I (or the postmaster here in town) found to correct the master postal regulations book, as it's the master list. For a couple of years, you could use UPS or FedEX to get around the rates, but when they figured out what USPS charges, they changed their rates to match. We did manage to get to someone at the postal service to talk to, and they said the regulations are based on requirements of the country listed. So, we then called some main postal authority in Australia (this was about 8 years ago now). They frankly didn't care what size packages they got, at least within reason. The US Postal Regulation had nothing to do with them according to them.
So if someone has the patience to pick up the ball and run, there ya go... good luck.. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Gees Miles! Way to check out the US-Oz postal ripoff. A typo??! Bloody hell. Now if we could just get that fixed.
I nominate AJ as the person with the biggest stake in this (unless I win lotto)
Edited by TAFKAR 2013-10-30 5:54 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | eBay sux
It took me 3 tries to sell my iPhone 4 before I found a buyer that actually PAID for it and in the process lost an additional $60 of what my initial winner had bid.
With absolutely ZERO recourse! You can't even leave a buyer poor feedback. Nothing shows on their public record. I prefer the public stockade in the town square method myself, but maybe there could be a happy medium huh? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I think the problem IS at this end. I asked a fairly senior Australia Post employee why they impose these size restrictions and his reply?
"We're not a freight company".
BUT...
BOTH times I bought a guitar from the US, it was shipped with UPS.
BOTH guitars were delivered by..... AUSTRALIA POST!
Go figure. (So much for the Free Trade Agreement) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | And don't be surprised if eBay keep putting they're fees up because people will continue to blindly use their service. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | Check out reverb.com. It's a pretty cool guitars and gear marketplace. They just started doing auctions in addition to the fixed price selling. Their fee is 3.5%.
I had a my Eastman Archtop up there for a while, but only had a few lowball offers. As the for sale section here shows, it's a lot tougher to sell a guitar than it was a few years ago. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Also there is http://www.mygear.com/
I just remembered them.
Back when I was selling I tried these folks.
You would have to read-up on their rules... They used to be FREE.
But I never managed to sell anything there.
I just wanted to put that out there for anybody who might wanna try them.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Designzilla - 2013-10-30 5:45 PM Check out reverb.com. ....I had a my Eastman Archtop up there for a while, but only had a few lowball offers. arthurseery - 2013-10-30 6:45 PM Also there is http://www.mygear.com/ They used to be FREE. But I never managed to sell anything there. Yep, that's the summary right there. I don't think eBay even thought about being a monopoly at the begining. It just happened and they ran with it. Like many things on the internet... there is only one Facebook although there are 100's of social network sites. There is only one eBay although there are 1000's of online markey and auction sites. Only one Amazon.com etc... These companies are so huge that 2nd place isn't even in the same market. gBase.com is still around too. Nice stuff to look at, but I swear I've seen some of the same guitars listed there for years and it's expensive. Unfortunately, eBay is also a reflection of the market in general. It is, what it is.. people are just not buying like they used to. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | mileskb - 2013-10-31 3:50 AM
Unfortunately, eBay is also a reflection of the market in general. It is, what it is.. people are just not buying like they used to.
Homes are selling like crazy here...nearly what it was in the heyday 5 or 6 years ago. YET qualifying for a mortgage is harder than ever, with many people turned down. A large % of sales are to cash buyers, so that tells me that the people with money are still buying stuff. The rest, not so much.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | "YET qualifying for a mortgage is harder than ever, with many people turned down.A large % of sales are to cash buyers, so that tells me that the people with money are still buying stuff. The rest, not so much." It used to be, back in the day, that people who didn't have money, couldn’t afford "stuff" (not to mention a home) and they knew they couldnt and waited until they could afford to. Whosever idea it was to consider qualifying "the rest" ruined the market. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | ebay is a necessary evil
you either deal with it or you don't
I sold an item yesterday 5 hours before the auction was to end I was offered a whopping $60 for the item.
it sold for $176.
too many people fishing on e bay now.
and btw don't ignore those low ball offers or e bay will cite you for not answering your questions.....
sigh.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | About 1980 I got my first credit card. JC Penney's with a $200 limit.
Last week I got a letter in the mail pre-approving my six year old Grandson for a line of credit.
Ebay/PayPal is the monopoly because it has the audience. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6202
Location: Phoenix AZ | Yeah, it's a "necessary evil" I guess. The fees and all that can be annoying. But at the same time I've been able to buy items that I never in a million years would have had access to otherwise. As Al says you either deal with it or you don't, the choice is yours.
Only rule of thumb I try to keep in mind is when selling something is don't get fooled by the selling price. Assume you will lose 10% in the deal so just price your item accordingly. It's no different than owning a brick and morter store - your profit is not the difference between your cost and your selling price. deduct the rent, electric bill, insurance, credit card fees, payroll, healthcare, cleaning, advertising, taxes, etc. etc. etc. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | I've been on ebay since 1999 and have had somewhere between 8000 and 9000 transactions. In the early days, the basic fee was 5% on the first $25, 2.5% on the portion between $25 and $1000, and 1.25% after that. Now it's a minimum of 10% PLUS they charge ebay fees on the shipping too.
Not much protection for the seller I'm afraid. I sold a sax a few weeks back for $275 plus $30 Standard post. The auction ended on 10-15 and was shipped the same day. On 10-20 he emailed me complaining he hadn't gotten it yet and demanded a partial refund because it was "late". It arrived on 10-24. Three days later he emailed and asked if there was any damage to the case when it left. i said no. Another few days went by, during which time he left me positive feedback. Now he comes forward and claims the sax is damaged and complains that I didn't insure it. I told him he should have asked for insurance, and that it isn't automatically offered. Side note, I KNOW I'm responsible for it arriving safely, insured or not, but this guy is just being a Richard. So he opened a claim against me, with three sentences of rant and no substance. I replied with the facts and suggested it was buyer's remorse and nothing else. I have no idea if ebay will side with him or me, and for $300 I don't care, but that's how I respond to someone who tries to back me into a corner and call all the shots and demand I drop to my knees.
Now lest you think I'm also being a Richard, two weeks ago I sold a different sax and it did arrive severely damaged. The post office wrapped the box in cellophane or poly of some kind, and it was clearly RUN OVER, not just dropped. The sax was crushed. The guy sent me photos and was decent about it, acknowledging there was no insurance but could we work something out? I immediately refunded his money and told him to keep the sax for parts if he wanted.
Needless to say, NOTHING is leaving here without insurance from now on. Even then, it might not do much good to HAVE insurance but at least it's something.
Edited by ksdaddy 2013-11-01 8:51 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3650
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | "Necessary Evil". So, do we all need to put our computers in pentagles, now?!
I expect to take a loss on everything I sell on Ebay. You get royally skewered in the whole process, and will continue to do so. It's simply inventory reduction, for me. I only hope I'm contributing to a better quality-of-life, for the buyer. I know, cross your feet, we only got 3 nails. OOPS, sorry, that's a bit sacrilegious, but y'all get the sentiment. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Miami | I gave up with eBay about 1 1/2 years ago. Between 2007-12 I had nothing but good transactions and then I was hit with two things: eBay greed and 2 dirtbag buyers who tried to renegotiate the price after the auction was over by pretending there were "issues" with the instrument. In the first case, I stupidly paid back a little of the final cost; in the second case, I told the miscreant to kiss his own air vent, and that was that. Fortunately, he'd already attempted to defraud eBay by trying to lure me into a private deal, so he really didn't have a leg to stand on when I refused to give him any money. His subsequent revenge with negative feedback was immaterial; I'd already decided that the party was over. eBay was great for a time, but it no longer worked for the private seller.
What I do now is either trade or sell on commission with Elderly Instruments. On commission, they charge only 2% more than eBay's 13%. Plus, they do all the advertising, photography, packaging and deal with any hassle. It's worth every penny of the extra 2% when you think of the "delights" that may lie in wait on eBay! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | hold it take it in perspective
you put something in a music store to sell on consignment you pay 20-25 percent to the store to sell it
you put something in an auction you easily pay 25-35 percent to sell it buy at an auction? you pay a buyers premium above your cost.
I have a 20 percent restock fee on purchases from me. why? credit card company charges 5 percent. you don't want the item I have to refund the money? guess what I get charged another 5 percent......
how bad does e bay look now? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Miami | Elderly Instruments do not charge 20-25% for consignments; they charge 15%. That's competitive, in my view. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Timolin - 2013-11-09 3:01 PM
Elderly Instruments do not charge 20-25% for consignments; they charge 15%. That's competitive, in my view.
We did consignment for quite awhile and as part of research I checked out the competition and 25%-30% was the norm. Regardless, the ultimate kicker of consignment or anywhere other than eBay is a mere few 1000 potential customers at the most as opposed to a few million. As any consignment fee is part of the price so you really don't lose anything, it doesn't really make sense if selling it on eBay is a possibility. However, having said that, I had a bucketload or boat stuff that was mostly used crap with some nice used and even new bits as well. I starred at for several months, even listed a few items, but ultimately just took it to a very popular used boat parts shop for consignment. As I don't care what I get for most of it, as long as I get something, I'm happy to check in every month and find if I have enough for a cup'o coffee or a lunch or something.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Speaking of FEES... or % for consignment... why does that matter?. You as the seller aren't paying the fees the buyer is... or should be. They should be figured into your price or you are doing it wrong. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Miami | mileskb - 2013-11-10 2:47 PM
We did consignment for quite awhile and as part of research I checked out the competition and 25%-30% was the norm. Regardless, the ultimate kicker of consignment or anywhere other than eBay is a mere few 1000 potential customers at the most as opposed to a few million. As any consignment fee is part of the price so you really don't lose anything, it doesn't really make sense if selling it on eBay is a possibility.
Whether 25-30% is the norm or not, Elderly Instruments will, as I said, sell a guitar for you on consignment for just a 15% fee. At just 2% more than eBay, of course it makes sense if you want to be free of the hassle and dodgy buyers who play tricks.
Edited by Timolin 2013-11-10 3:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7236
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Timolin - 2013-11-10 1:49 PM
Elderly Instruments will, as I said, sell a guitar for you on consignment for just a 15% fee. At just 2% more than eBay, of course it makes sense if you want to be free of the hassle and dodgy buyers who play tricks.
I wasn't disputing that... I was just inferring that maybe the more proper statement is "(insert name of consignor here) will attempt to sell a guitar for you on consignment to their somewhat limited audience." And that "FEES" are irrelevant as they should be figured into the price anyway. However, I agree totally that there is certainly something to be said for eliminating or at least lowerring the hassle of dodgy buyers and such. |
|
| |
Ebay gripe.....