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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I've been considering learning to play bass (as well as guitar of course). Anyone here play both? Do you enjoy playing Bass as much as guitar?...or do you play because no one else wants to? What do you like about it and what don't you like about it?
Any comments and tips would be appreciated.
Thanks. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | After playing guitar most of my life since childhood I took on a bass role in an orchestra because nobody else was available to do it. I ran out and bought a bass and showed up for rehearsals. I had no concept the bass was a rhythm instrument, I just thought it was the first four strings of guitar an octave lower. At least I knew you played one note at a time. Our director was an accomplished musician who could play almost any instrument used in western music (this hemisphere, not cowboy stuff!). He eventually made a decent passable bassist out of me and I held the post for fourteen years.
The bass is a powerful role to play. If you falter, as I did a few times losing my place in the music, one by one everybody else begins dropping out of playing. You are a partner with the drummer in keeping the tempo of the music consistent, but you are the melodic one of the two so others tend to hang on your root note to keep their time. At times, playing bass is magical in a big ensemble. The time of the piece flows through what you provide. Plus, with those big loud FAT sounds and huge soundwaves you produce, you can sometimes levitate lighter weight people in the audience out of their seats! (okay, that was a lie but I used to imagine it happening while playing certain passages). Bass can not be a solo instrument.
I guess unless you are Sir Paul you will never accompany yourself singing on the bass, but it's a great axe nonetheless. I won't go into the virtues of guitar since I'm betting you know those already! |
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Location: Orlando, FL | I think Dave is right. Playing bass is a completely different thought process than playing guitar. I played bass and guitar in a trio with a drummer and piano player years ago. You are not only helping maintain the groove, but holding down the root as well, creating a foundation for everybody else to work on top of.
I think the bass is a very fun instrument to play. Sometimes you just hang out around that root and play off the drummer, and other times you find ways to melodically outline the chord structure. But always keep in mind, you are part of the rhythm section.
Edited by Designzilla 2013-09-07 8:28 AM
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Wow! Great comments. Thanks.
I have to say from a guitarist's point of view, I'm always amazed that fretless basses are so popular. What's the advantage of a fretless bass? To me, it looks like a great way to ensure I was always off key....sometimes sharp, sometimes flat. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I have dabbled a bit with the bass. The way you play it is very different from guitar, you really do not use chords or strum it. It is all scales, hammers, and slides. The good thing is that the strings and frets are laid out the same way so if you know your way around a guitar neck you will know your way around a conventional bass. I actually think playing bass is much more like playing a lead guitar solo.
I initially started bass because I was casually jamming with a group of people and often we would have no bass player so I volunteered. As I became more interested in the bass I did start to pay a great deal more attention to the bass lines in music that I listen to. Good bass adds so much to a song yet is very under appreciated. You notice when it's missing. One of my favorite songs for bass is the marvelous job Paul McCartney does on "Nowhere Man", give it a listen and pay attention to the bass, it's awesome. I saw Steve Miller on Austin City Limits a few weeks ago and I was surprised to find he did not have a bass player. It really seemed to leave a hole in his music, not sure if that was intentional or maybe the bassist just couldn't make that show.
One thing that I struggled with on bass, especially with a loud band, was just trying to hear myself play. Maybe it's just me or maybe its because the frequency is so low but I often struggled to hear myself over the roar of the rest of the band. I was considering some type of personal monitor, maybe an in-ear system or such, but I have pretty much moved on from bass playing at the present time. Bass also requires big hands and big stretches, it's a workout compared to six string guitar.
One thing that has kind of stuck with me is that I play my acoustic guitar with a lot of bass runs and bass-centric soinds, it's kind of become my personal acoustic playing style. I love dreadnauts and big boomy bassy acoustic guitars. My Adamas 1581 can really rattle the furniture. One day I would like to get one of those giant guitars you see in mariachi bands.
Edited by Brian T 2013-09-07 11:32 AM
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Location: SE Michigan | Yeah, I never understood fretless basses. I suppose it allows for more expression. I also never understood basses with 5, 6, and even 7 strings. I always had my hands full managing 4 strings. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Anyone want to take a swing @ recommending a mid priced bass guitar that would be a good starter?
When I look at the Ovtion models, I see the nice American Elite style basses for $2300. Too much for me at this point. Then I see the Celebrity models for $300. OK...I think that's too low. Is there an American made Ovation Bass somewhere in the middle?
I've also been looking at the Carvin AC 40 Bass like this:
http://www.carvinbbs.com/viewtopic.php?t=32278&start=0&postdays=0&p... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Some missed concepts and comments above. I say this as a currently performing bassist in 4 gigging bands and over 40+ years of bass playing experience.
Dave probably came closest to nailing it with a few incorrect comments.
"Bass cannot be a solo instrument"
That one is the worst.....listen to Victor Wooten, Stanley Clarke, etc do solo interpretations of songs and you will be amazed how they can play the rhythm, bass, and lead together . There are also hundreds of accomplished bass players on YouTube capable of the same magic.
"Unless you are Sir Paul you will never accompany yourself singing on bass"!!!!!
WHAT?
I am not sure what was meant by that. Jack Bruce, Phil Lynott, Geddy Lee, Sting, Roger Waters, Greg Lake, and I could name another dozen with only a bit of thought.
While I have never considered myself a lead singer, I have sung harmonies for most of my playing days. It is true that it is more difficult than strumming chords and singing but I would wager no more difficult than some of the amazing finger picking and singing many performers are capable of.
5 string basses have become extremely popular with slap and pop artists along (to a lesser degree) with 6 or more string basses. These are typically used more as lead instruments or soloing instruments where a lot of chords are played.
Fretless basses are great to have and play if you are primarily playing Jazz or Blues but it can sound really good for rock also. The biggest problem with folks who want to try fretless is due to improper placement of their fingers when trying to play notes. Proper placement when playing fretless is where the fret wire would be and NOT between the lines which will result in a nasty sour sounding note. A hard habit to break.
Jim, unless you are hung up on acoustic basses I would not go that way. Get a decent MIM fender bass or Yamaha bass for around 5-700 and you will be more than satisfied. Acoustic guitar basses re typically difficult to play with higher strings than you would like and shaky intonation. If acoustic is what you want, I would strongly consider one oh the Kala U-Basses. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | stephent28 - 2013-09-07 4:09 PM
Dave probably came closest to nailing it with a few incorrect comments.
"Bass cannot be a solo instrument"
That one is the worst.....listen to Victor Wooten, Stanley Clarke, etc do solo interpretations of songs and you will be amazed how they can play the rhythm, bass, and lead together . There are also hundreds of accomplished bass players on YouTube capable of the same magic.
GUILTY AS CHARGED! It's funny I said that because just a few days prior I listened to Victor do a 15 minute solo! However, even though I did think of the few bass solos before I hit SEND on my previous comments, I do have to add a lengthy solo, even from Victor, on a bass gets to be a chore to listen to after a short time. Let's agree to disagree on that one because I know you are steaming now. There is only so much slap one can take before it gets gimmicky. I'd give anything to do what Mr. Wooten does, but I would not subject an audience to 15 minutes of showboating on it. Can I get a witness?
As for my other error, I have never in my 60 years been to a concert (or on Youtube) and seen anyone accompany their singing solely on a bass. Seems to me it would be a rather droll experience. I'd be a quick convert if you could point me to a reference video to prove me wrong. I enjoy the bass and still have myself trained to zero in on it any time I am listening to a song. I still believe it is best utilized to set and hold the groove and be almost subliminal in music. |
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Location: SE Michigan | For a decent affordable bass I would also recommend the Fender Precision Bass or the Jazz Bass. They also make shorter scale basses that are easier to play, I believe the Fender Mustang bass is short scale. Carvins are also great and reasonably priced.
Don't forget a solid and powerful bass amp, its almost more important than the guitar. Bass amps really are specialized for that purpose. Don't skimp on the amp.
I also agree that acoustic guitar style basses really don't cut it (a full upright bass is a whole different thing). For general rock/contemporary stuff get a solid body electric and spend as much or maybe a bit more on the amp. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Check out Casey Abrams from American Idol a couple years back. Pretty cool stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S5G3VKA8A0
Also ...does anyone know if the Carvin AC40 or the Ovation Viper Bass are decent instruments or are they considered "Acoustic" basses and problematic?
Thanks. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I've spent a good deal of time doing both, as well as singing the lead parts while doing it. (Not necessarily well...)
They are completely different instruments requiring me to be in completely different mind sets. On bass it's me and the drummer against the rest of the band, trying to keep the singer from dropping beats and drag the lead player back to the root melody. As a guitar player/singer, I barely hear the bass/drum as they do some pointless exercises and throw me off. (I find the same dichotomy between stage actors and stage techs.....;-) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Good discussion
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Yes, very interesting discussion. I'm different to most bass players (just different PERIOD!) as I didn't pick it up because nobody wanted to play it. I naturally gravitated to the bass as my instrument of choice. This next bit of info may be off topic or irrelevant, but I remember a time back in high school, my Technical Drawing teacher asked the class (I don't remember the context - hey, this was the '70s!) "When you listen to a song, do you listen to the lyrics or the music?" I was the only person in a class of 30 that said "the music". Bass may not be a 'solo' instrument per se, but there are some memorable, wonderfully melodic basslines out there that just MAKE a song. (Eg, 'Money' by Pink Floyd, 'The Chain' by Fleetwood Mac) If you want someone to point you to a specific youtube clip to see bass players as lead singers, you're just being lazy. Stephen gave you a list of names. Sting, Sir Paul, Phil Lynott (Google 'Thin Lizzy') For me, bass is THE most important instrument in a band. If you're doing originals, the bass player can completely change the sound / feel / color of the song. Be prepared to be bored out of your skull playing stuff like 'Knockin on Heaven's Door' tho'. Mind numbing! Yet, on the other hand, you can play incredibly simplistic baslines that just ROCK! (Think ACDC...) Now. Acoustic basses... Hmmm..... Umm... NO! I've toyed with the idea of an acoustic bass for acoustic jams, but in all honesty, even the loud ones are so damn quiet you'll never be heard over the other instruments without some amplification. So if you've gotta lug an amp to the jam anyway, why bother with an acoustic bass when you can use an electric bass, which will more likely be cheaper AND better AND much more 'tweakable'. (You can't fix the intonation on an acoustic bass if its out, well, not without major surgery!) Now if someone offered me an upright bass at the right price.... I'll leave it up to your fellow Americans to advise you on good mid priced instruments and amps. I have NO idea of prices over there (other than they're much cheaper than down here) Personally, I play a Musicman Stingray through a Punch Factory compressor into MarkBass 500w combo. Fricking awesome setup, but not for someone who's just ''dabbling"! I mentioned something in that previous sentence that 'fixes' an issue someone alluded to in a previous post - that they couldn't hear themselves over the rest of the band. That's what a compressor will do. It doesn't make you any louder, but puts your sound 'out front'! The simpler the better. My compressor only has 2 knobs, and one of those is 'volume'. There are some compressors out there that require a degree in sound engineering to use. If that's your thing, then go for it, I'm a volume and tone knob kinda guy, and the tone knob is generally overkill. You probably won't be able to tell what a compressor does until you're playing in a band setting. I remember when I first got mine, first time, first rehearsal, explaining what it supposedly 'does' to the lead singer. I gave him a demo and I thought it was a dud. I couldn't hear much difference. But when the band kicked in, the bass just appeared out of the 'mud'. My last piece off advice - DON'T USE A PICK!!! Not until you're somewhat proficient at the fingering method. By all means, use a pick if the song calls for it, but REALLY try to get that fingering technique down pat first. Picks are easy, you've probably been using them all your guitar playing life. As has been mentioned many times already in this thread, it's a different instrument / beast. If you approach it as a guitar, you'll always just be a guitar player that sometimes plays bass. Different instrument, different technique, different mind-set. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Muzza finally made a post that made sense...LOL.
Just a few points.
I own one of the only known/produced Adamas Acoustic basses (acquired from KK) and trust me, volume is NOT an issue. It will hold its own in any acoustic jam.....but as Muzzy mentioned this is not usually the case and acoustic bass volume in a jam will almost always be over powered by all the other players.
Regarding use of a pick...I use both fingers and picks and the sound achieved by each technique differs. I know of some players that grow their fingernails long and can emulate the PICK sound while using their fingers. To me, this reeks of fingernails on a chalkboard and sends shivers down my spine. For me it is just as easy to use a PICK without the maintenance. Speed wise, I think they are essentially equal unless the bassist is proficient using 3 fingers in which case I think it is no contest.
Compressors are an essential tool for bassists that want to sit in the mix. You can actually play louder with chest thumping lows, fit the mix and cut out the majority of the boominess that a lot of bassist fill the room with. Takes the muddiness out of the sound without having to deal with a tinny sound or bloated one.
I played a blues gig last night at one of the nicer/bigger venues in Denver and was able to change the tone, feeling, and overall sound of the song merely by changing the walking lines and pace of the bass. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Just to clarify. I meant hold off using a pick UNTIL you're somewhat proficient at the finger technique. Then you get to choose.
Only use a pick and you get no choice. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | Like Dave, our middle school orchestra needed someone on bass guitar. I was asked to play for them (since they knew I already sand and played guitar for the chorus). It was fun. I still play bass now and then (when I find one).
Every now and then I need a little "THUMP" in your playing ... if you know what I mean. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'll consolidate a few points (all good) from above and my experience..
While I started on guitar, my first professional experience was Bass and I still enjoy playing bass when I can. I prefer a long or standard scale bass as they are just easier to play I think. I good amp and speaker is really the key. Even on electric guitar, you can usually find something useful on a crappy amp... no so much for a Bass. If it can't reproduce the bottom end, it's useless.
Common mis-information about a 5-string bass is that it's getting closer to a guitar. Ummm no.. It adds a LOW B to the EADG so you can go MORE bass.
Genz Benz, Eden and Carvin make great sounding flexible Bass amps. If you can handle the weight, you really can't beat an Ovation Magnum. Not just saying it cause we are on an Ovation board.. it really is one of the most flexible bass guitars around.
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Location: Michigan | lets not forget the bass player everyone fell in love with a few years ago.
what a great bass guitar song that is lead rhythm and solo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0G_fcfajDA |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | WOW GWB. That was Awesome! And she's an Aussie. And I've never heard of her.
Thank you.
Gotta go share... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Nobody knew who Tal was a few years ago. She is a very talented player.
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Location: the BIG Metropolis of TR | Now, when you really get serious about playin' bass  ...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i44CwXhucKY |
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Location: Tennessee | stellarjim - 2013-09-08 Also ...does anyone know if the Carvin AC40 or the Ovation Viper Bass are decent instruments or are they considered "Acoustic" basses and problematic? Thanks. The Ovation Viper bass is very cool ... but it's not acoustic, it needs to be plugged it. I've got one here that could be yours if you're interested. PM me if you want to get some info. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | To add to the comment about amps, bass amps, because of the low frequency, require a considerably more powerful amp than, say, an electric guitar.
To give you an idea, I have a 500watt bass combo and if someone with a 50 watt Marshall stack cranked it up to 10, you wouldn't be able to hear my bass. (or ANYTHING for about 3 days...) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Muzzy,
Are you comparing tube to solid state?
I had an old 100 watt tube Sunn Model T that was crazy loud and rarely got turned up to more than 3-4 on the volume.
I currently run a class D TecAmp Puma 900 which is rated at 900 watts.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 100 watt tube was louder. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | No Steve. Solid State vs Solid State. No experience with tube bass amps.
Only the 5W harmonica amp that I build for myself.
Maybe I should build a tube bass amp next? (You wouldn't have a schematic for the Sunn would you?) |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | "BUILT"... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | No, but there are a few websites dedicated to Sunn (like the OFC) and I think I remember a few of them that had schematics for some of the old Conrad Sundholm designs (before Fender bought and destroyed them with their horrible reissues). |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | OK, we've established that they're loud, but what about the tonal qualities?
My only knowledge of valve amps is for getting that dirty Chicago Blues sound from my harp amp - which it accomplishes very successfully - and is incredibly loud for only 8 watts. A lot of harp players use a Fender Bassman for blues harp. So I'm thinking out loud, they must have a dirty sound when cranked up?
(Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I figure its still relevant to the OP.) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Actually one of the appeals of Sunn for bass players is that they could get extremely loud while maintaining a clean tone. The Model T was a total beast from a loudness standpoint but was also extremely clean. Lessor Powered amps from Sunn would be the SOLARUS, SORADO, and I believe there was at least one more along those same designs. Used versions in good working shape command premium prices.
IMO a feature of Fender amps is the way they break up and get their signature distorted sound. That is one reason Bassman amps are preferred by a lot guitarist.
So, I think tubes for bass can be clean or dirty but they produce a big fat wooly sound that SS just does not completely emulate. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | One other point, on hearing yourself while playing.
Get further away from the amp and/or tilt it up. Bass frequencies act different and seem to stand out more at a distance than they do up close. JMO? |
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Location: Jet City | I came very close to being a bass player over guitar. Hanging right next to the Preacher and UKII at Starland Music in Alameda was a Magnum IV. I was in complete awe of the thing... the graphic EQ, the pickups, the monster bridge, and the cool elongated shape. Man, was it a sexybitch! But I had my mind made up beforehand to play guitar. Later in life I saw one on Alpep's lostartvintage.com and decided 30 years of waiting was enough. I think that was the first time I rattled off a card number to Al. The guitar is pristine. I don't think it had ever been played. I love goofin' on my Magnum IV and have a Peavey or 2 as well. If you're open to used, the Magnum is awesome. The Peavey T40 is an awesome American made bass from the same era and usually more affordable in the 400-500 range. If you're just starting off on bass, I wouldn't get too crazy with the amp, but a good ol' cheap standard is the Peavey TNT and you can usually find 'em on your local Craigslist. I also dig playing my Longneck tuned down to B (and sometimes droppedA), but that's another topic. Oh... and for some killer bass leads, using chords, hammer-on/pull-offs, etc. have a listen to Stu Hamm
Edited by Damon67 2013-09-11 4:20 PM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Fill, that's what the compressor does. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | ..........well, I'm not,an expert. I just play one on the interweb. |
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Location: Denver, CO | DaveKell - The bass is a powerful role to play. If you falter, as I did a few times losing my place in the music, one by one everybody else begins dropping out of playing. You are a partner with the drummer in keeping the tempo of the music consistent, but you are the melodic one of the two so others tend to hang on your root note to keep their time. At times, playing bass is magical in a big ensemble. The time of the piece flows through what you provide. This is an interesting thread. Great comments from both Dave and Stephen. BTW Dave did develop into a much more than passable bassist, but then he had an excellent drummer to work with! ;-) And Stephen is one of the best bassists I have played with. None of that popping and squawking, just solid time, tasteful support, and the occasional gem that makes me giggle so hard I have to quit singing. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Changing the topic slightly, what is the advantage of a fretless bass over a fretted bass? On the surface, it seems like it would be much more difficult to play. But I see a lot of them and wanted to try to understand why anyone would want one. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | A fretless will give you a good approximation of an AUB or an EUB and depending on the neck wood can give you the MWAAAHH sound or just a good ole thump.
The reason it is difficult is for the reasons I stated in an earlier response....most people don't fret it properly and therefore the notes sound sharp or flat. The proper place to play a fretless is on top of where the fretwire would be and NOT in the middle of the fret like you would typically play a fretted bass. Also tends to freak people out if they do not have a visual where to place their fingers. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Stephen: Check out this fretless bass guitar.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carvin-AC40F-Acoustic-Electric-Bass-Lined-F...
Wouldn't this be an easy fretless to learn on. The "frets" are just lines on the neck...not actual fret wire. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Actually Jim that is the type of bass I was referring to...that people play incorrectly.
If you bought that bass ( or any other like it) , you would assume that proper finger placement would be just like a regular bass and play the note on the dot between the two frets....
And you would assume incorrectly and wonder why you never sounded quite in tune
If you need visual aids there is certainly nothing wrong with a lined bass but you would want to play it on the lines and not the dots.
Keeping in the Ovation line of thinking I have a Magnum Fretless bass with fret lines I would be happy to sell you. Excellent shape and has that great MWAAAH sound that you want in a fretless. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX |
Confusing specs. The header says fretless, but specs from factory say "medium jumbo frets"? The pic looks fretted. Most fretless basses have lines without much contrast to the fretboard? |
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A Question for Members that play Guitar AND Bass