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Location: Chicago | We've discussed how Ovations have fallen out of favor since their heyday. Currently it is MORE than simply "I prefer Taylor/Tak/Breedlove whatever". The O reputation seems tainted with a definite STIGMA. What is REALLY going on? The inevtiable fall of a Great Titan and 70s icon? Anti-plastic snobbery or allergy? Are you a "clone" of this or that player if you play one? Dumb trend and fashion? Ignorance? I am really baffled.
Good story: Our Studio guru all but refused to record us when he heard we were bringing Ovations. When he heard their SOUND however, his jaw dropped and he never said another word. In fact, he's a convert now. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The Truth? Snobbery.
Most people who talk bad about Ovations have never played one.
People say that they don't like Ovations because they have heard other people say that.
Those people want to be part of the "in" crowd...
And the "in" crowd plays Martins, Taylors or Takamines on TV.
But even people who used to play Ovations aren't anymore.
And my local Ovation dealer won't carry Fendrovations.
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Location: Utah | arthurseery - 2013-04-28 4:39 PM
The Truth? Snobbery.
Most people who talk bad about Ovations have never played one.
I think that is mostly what is going on. Maybe they think Ovations are old tech, and thus must be inferior to the newer popular brand. There is that well known psych principle that whatever the cool people have must be the coolest stuff, so when they see current stars playing Taylor/Gibson/Fender it is natural to think those are the better brands.
Sara's guitar teacher was a guitar performance major in college. He's been a performing local pro for maybe 15 years now, and is a killer player. He turned his nose up at Sara's red flame, saying something about plastic blah blah blah. But he liked how it sounded and how it played. Then she showed up with her Ute. Over the years she's taken every one of our O's and A's including the solid body electrics. Now he is a fan of the brand. It just took some hands on experience.
Edited by FlySig 2013-04-28 5:07 PM
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I often think of, and contrast, two pioneers in their fields who brought forth radical inventiosn that really changed their worlds. And contrast what has happended with their companies (products, endorsements, marketing, etc.) since. Phil Knight and Charlie Kaman.
Charlie used high tech aerospace stuff to build a revolutionary guitar. You know the rest of the history, so I can stop here.
Phil Knight built a better running shoe by forming the sole using a waffle iron in his kitchen. 45 years later the Nike name and logo (heck, even Kaman copied the "swoosh" ) are legendary. Why didn't the same happen to Kaman? In my opinion the reason is Marketing. Nike didn't just grow into a bigger sneaker company, they built a Marketing Machine par none. Endoresments? Um, how about Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Tiger Woods, John McEnroe, etc. Even Lance Armstrong dispite all the doping stuff was a huge ambassador for the brand.
Availability? You can NOT walk into a sporting goods store without finding tons of Nike gear. Oh, and does anyone conmplain that the stuff is made in Vietnam? Not even the snobs complain.
Yes Nike was a running show company, but they know that was not a sustainable business so they branched into Basketball, Football, and Clothing. They branched in to Golf Clubs, Basketballs, Volleyballs, you name it. And they never did it by just "putting a toe in the water". I think of the Ovation VXT (gee, maybe if we build a few T-5 clones somebody will notice and buy one). Freck No - Nike went BIG. They never entered a market without the explicite goal of dominating it.
No disrespect to Charlie. He built a hell of a guitar and at one time Ovation WAS iconic. But as the new century reared it head, it became obvious that a good invention alone is not permanently sustainable as a business and we as fans have been dealing with the slow demise ever since.
Edited by Standingovation 2013-04-28 5:08 PM
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Location: SoCal | Thank you Dave! Well said. I will now go and play my KA17 FRG slothead. I think I left it outside on the hammock last night  |
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Location: New Bern, NC | marketing, or lack thereof. Sad. Somebody really dropped the ball on that. |
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Location: Flahdaw | On the other hand...
Almost ANYONE will buy a pair of shoes, or a shirt, shorts, etc. Adults/kids/women/men/rich/poor. You can't say the same about a guitar.
The profit margins on a pair of Nikes as a % are astounding vs a guitar. So the profits roll in by the bucketfulls.
Personally, I think what killed Ovation was that everyone else caught up with their electronics. THEN they dropped the ball on marketing. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I couldn't find the "like" button on Noah's post!
When I pull an O out of the case and have to adjust the string just to make sure the tuner is working... yup!
Sarcasm: The gap between what I said and what they still don't understand! |
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Location: south east Michigan | There was a time when it was a family business.... then there was a time it was not.
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Labeling "Celebritys" as "Ovations" didn't help much either.
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I would have never guessed that the New Hartford made Ovation would dwindle to the point it is now.
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And StandingO always offers the best take on this topic.</p>
Edited by Slipkid 2013-04-29 2:02 PM
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Location: Nashville TN. | Lower end ovation hurt the name many sounded bad. People of them sound like that. Marketing flopped...some other stuff. Other companies paying endorsers.
Lots of things |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Brad Durasa - 2013-04-30 4:58 AM Labeling "Celebritys" as "Ovations" didn't help much either. You got it right there, Brad. All the other explanations and excuses offered in this thread are just more nails in the coffin.
Edited by muzza 2013-04-29 4:18 PM
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Location: NJ | brought my adamas to a jam yesterday
the guy running it looked and said "that is an interesting looking ovation" I replied it is an Adamas He just looked blankly
but they all thought my guitar sounded great |
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Location: Miami | What kills me is the disparity between guitarists and audiences. Guitarists by and large scoff at any Ovation guitar. Audiences, on the other hand, still come up to me and are utterly fascinated by the Ovation, for both the look and the sound. When I tell them it's an Ovation they're impressed, as if Ovation was still the luxury guitar. When I tell them it's an Adamas, they have a blank look. Then I tell them it's made by Ovation and their eyes light up. "Oh! I knew it was one of those!" The WOW factor simply does not fade.
I wish Ovation was as respected amongst the user community as it is amongst the audiences I have played for over the last 7 years. Oh well.
Edited by Jukebox Joe 2013-04-30 7:48 AM
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Location: Chicago | I'm getting the picture. A few years ago, I pulled a really low end O off the rack at Guitar Center and tried it out. My heart sank: it was as if BMW had put their logo on a Chevy Lumina. Oh yeah... for the last decade I NEVER, EVER (to quote TS) saw an Ovation ad in the mainstream anything. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | What killed it? How about the corporate bean counters that strangled it from the inside. The philosophy that return on investment is more important that market share or being best. And the way the entire industry was getting Walmarted by GC and the others so you run oversaes to get them cheaper so the people in chargte of overseas get the credit and the domestic get snarled at cause they cost too much. Oh and don't forget to cut the marketing budgets to help the ROI. FTFF. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Wait! Who is this Beal character, and why should we trust HIS opinion??? |
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Location: Jet City | bean counters suck |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | In the early 90s, after I figured out that bean counters were taking over the world, I told my daughters that they should study to be auditors, so they'd always have a job. I'm glad they didn't listen to me then, either. |
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Location: SoCal | Wait! Who is this BobG character, and why should we trust HIS opinion??? |
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Location: SoCal | In the mid '80s, I realized that I could be right... or Lady Noah and I could be happy, so I wrote software systems for the bean counters. |
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Location: Chicago | The cover art of the first Boston LP is evidence of a connection between Ovations and UFOs. Let's talk about the government coverup and the conspiracy behind all of this (reverse engineering of alien technology, Area 51 experiments on Radar Love etc.) Basically Marti(a)n "Guitars" vs. U.F.O(vation) and the Great Sighting at New Hartford. You know what I'm talking about. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Dobro, put the straw down and step away from the mirror... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Why would a hungry young lad ever trade a cow for a few beans?
To live the dream baby! |
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Location: Flahdaw | I see a lot of semi-professionals playing Ovations out publicly in clubs and bars, but the celebrities aren't. Why? Probably 'cos they ain't getting PAID to play 'em.
How much would it cost to have, say Taylor Swift, strap on an Ovation when she performs on stage? |
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Location: south east Michigan | To little ... to late.
The fat lady has sung and the skinny one plays a Taylor. |
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Location: Flahdaw | My point is, it would probably take $millions to get an Ovation in the "right" peoples hands. Without payola, the big stars aren't gonna play Ovations. It has almost NOTHING to do with sound, playability, or looks of the guitar. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The stigma of a "plastic" guitar or "not a real guitar" has always been around because Ovations were different. For awhile, Ovation did a good marketing job, convincing the public that different was better. The advanced electronics helped, but when other guitar manufacturers caught up on the electronics and started getting their guitars on stage, Ovation went back to the old stigma, plus this garbage about sliding off the knee started. No one wanted to admit that the problem was the weight of the player.
When the general public doesn't see them on stage and only gets to try the offshore or supershallow models in the stores, there's not much to combat the stigma of "cheap plastic", "thin sounding" or "slides off your knee". Fender doesn't seem to be trying. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Mark in Boise - 2013-05-01 9:48 AM
Fender doesn't seem to be trying.
Unfortunately, I don't think that Fender really wanted to buy "Ovation" guitars...
And apparently they weren't interested in Hamer either.
If they can sell some Asian models, that's okay.... The Celebrity and Ultra factories were already set-up.
Just rebrand the Ultra series into the AX/TX series and go from there without the USA set-up.
As I understand it, Fender wanted the Kaman distribution organization.
And Kaman (Aircraft/Industrial Technologies) Corporation wanted to get rid of that little guitar company.
So hang on to your USA Ovations and Vipers and Deacons and VXT's...
Cuz you won't be seeing the likes of them again. 
I wonder how long FMIC will keep the Adamas and Custom Shop runnig?
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | But, Like Jukebox Joe sez...
People still come-up to me on the street and compliment my Guitars.
It is the snobbish guitar "players" who dislike any brand besides their chosen brand.
Kinda like sidewalk commandos who say "If it ain't a Harley it ain't ****" even though they are Walking!
(Wow! that program just automatically censors stuff, huh?)
I kinda wonder about people who say that Ovations Sound Nice and Play Nice, but they still don't like 'em.
What more do you Want?
But as I have said before, I kinda like having a guitar that others Don't like.
It just stimulates my Rebellious neurons. 
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | arthurseery - 2013-05-01 10:24 AM
"If it ain't a Harley it ain't ****"
I have a friend who, when given a line like this, responded, "Are you saying that a Harley is ****?" |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | They are!
If you want a proper motorbike, not an armchair on 2 wheels, you've gotta start talkin with an Italian accent. |
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Location: south east Michigan | I thought BMW was German?
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Ya know... sometimes I enjoy my guitars so much, I kinda creep myself out. |
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Location: Flahdaw | It's NOT the guitars.... |
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Location: Pueblo West, CO | muzza - 2013-05-02 3:12 PM
They are!
If you want a proper motorbike, not an armchair on 2 wheels, you've gotta start talkin with an Italian accent.
I had another friend, a builder of custom Harleys who used to say:
'Ride a Harley, ride the best. Ride a mile, walk the rest...' |
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Location: Always beautiful canyon country of Utah | You'll never be walking if you start out on a beemer!! |
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Location: Chicago | Brad: It's a "simile" : For "Bavarian Motor Works" to put it's label on a Chevy Lumina is LIKE New Hartford allowing Chinese Applesauce to be in the same list as Adamas, Legend and Elite. Alas, I've put the straw down, stepped away from the mirror and I don't like what I see. Now 'scuse me while I mount my camel and go hunting with a stick. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I think there are those among us who rather enjoy thinking Ovation is an underdog....knowhatImean?
.....is ANY guitar brand selling as well as iPad loaded with GarageBand? |
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Location: Caribou, ME | If I had been a bazillionaire in 1985 I would have bought Fender from CBS and pared the line to a black Lead, a blonde Telecaster, a sunburst Strat, and a sunburst P Bass, all made in Fullerton, albeit not in CBS's building.
Yeah, I would have gone down in flames but the name Fender would have had one last proud moment.
I feel the same about Ovation. If I were king of the forest I would make a basic Balladeer cranked out like Zippo lighters and double or triple the capacity of the custom shop. Again, there would likely be an empty building after a year but it would be a noble death. |
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Location: Denver, CO | If many, many modern corporations would take a more respectful view of their particular markets, rather than basing all their actions on spreadsheets and marketing gimics and focus groups and profit margins and market share, focusing their efforts on 1...providing a quality product, 2...serving their primary market and its particular desires, and 3...building goodwill through ethical business practices, then there would be a lot less frustration in the market place, people like us would be eternally sunny because our "Company" makes us happy, every consumer would be better served and shareholders and "management teams" would take home 10% less money. I think that would be a fair trade. AMF bought Harley Davidson and saved the company. CBS bought Fender and saved the company. The US government bought General Motors, and appears to have saved the company. It doesn't appear that Fender is interested in "saving" Ovation, but who knows? Maybe we could put together an investment group and buy it back? It worked, once again, for Harley... I do think it's important to ask, though: Do "we" really want Ovation saved? Isn't a part of our infatuation with the instrument related to the idea that it's a little odd, less respected, rarer, and, as entertainers, more attention-getting? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Ovation was a market leader for many years. The stigma existed during those years, promoted by those who favored "traditional" guitars. They weren't rare by any means during the 70s. Every performer had them, it seemed. Now that the "traditional" guitars have pickups and preamps, the O-bashing still exists, but Ovation isn't doing much to counter it. With fewer quality Ovations in the market and little marketing effort the stigma will continue, if not grow. My infatuation was based on novelty to some extent, but also based on technological advances, playing comfort (I find the round shape more comfortable than those corners that dig into my chest and thigh) and most importantly, the sound. I don't entertain anyone, so I don't care whether they gain anyone's attention but mine. I think they are stunning, even if they are as plain as the 97 Collector.
Edited by Mark in Boise 2013-05-03 4:01 PM
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Location: Denver, CO | I understand your point, Mark, and it seems the Adamas guitars still set the standard for acoustic/electric guitars, technologically. So, is it really just marketing? And if so, why wouldn't a company like Fender want to commit a few million to building market position for the brand, along with awareness of and respect for the technology? |
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Location: sitting at my computer | What do ya figure the average ratio of: modest budget -to- moderate budget -to- high-end budget guitar buyers is? Totally hypothetical here, but if it was 100 to 10 to 1 then potential sales dollars might look like... 100 buyers in a range of $300 - $600 ............ $30,000 - $60,000 10 buyers in a range of $700 - $3,000 ........... $7,000 - $30,000 1 buyer in a range of $4,000 - $15,000 ....... $4,000 - $15,000 Who do ya figure a "corporation" is most likely to spend marketing dollars on?... if they even wanted to spend any. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I had really hoped that Fender would finally stop producing acoustic guitars, which never had a decent reputation. No one wants a Fender acoustic, just like no one wanted an Ovation electric. It seemed like a match made in heaven--the Fender brand focusing on electrics and using resources that had been wasted on acoustics to ramp up production and sales of Guild and Ovation. I should have known better, since Fender never really did much with Tacoma or Guild before. Guild is still viable, but I think they could have increased market share by producing good Guilds and Ovations. As Beal said, market share didn't seem to matter to the bean counters.
I worried about Hamer, but hoped that they would keep it as the high end electrics, possibly eliminating the closest Hamer competitor to the Strat. Hope dashed again.
I don't think it's just the Adamas brand that has the rep for technology. The roundback is still technologically superior to squarebacks. At least that was the story in the 60s and 70s and I haven't seen any traditional guitar manufacturer claim that the technology of a wood backed guitar is superior to an Ovation. Even if it isn't true, it doesn't matter. Marketing hype sells and becomes reality.
I am saddened to see a Fender acoustic in a store with no Ovations. It seems dumb to me, but what do I know? I'm just a customer with thousands of dollars spent on Ovations in the last 8 years, not a Fender stockholder. |
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Location: Chicago | I've finally realized that DO enjoy the underdog status of Ovation and Adamas. Many roundback models do not even LOOK like a guitar to some people (I've been asked: "What instrument is that?" . It is really cool to have an awesome, "personal" brand ... like a cult secret. I have the support of true giants of the past: Glenn, McLaughlin, Dimeola and countless others.... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think we're missing one important point and maybe too hung up on the headstock logo.
HAMER? They are saved and resurrected in a kick-arse lineup of Guild electrics. Pre-aquisition Hamer never could have accomplished that. Nor could Guild have accomplished that. But Fender took the some of the best electric guitar making talent on the planet and put them to good use.
OVATION? Same story. A huge amount of the Ovation production technology has found its way onto Guild. And the upper end stuff is being bought up for significant sums of money and well respected along side Martin, Collings and the rest. Guild never in a million years could have done that without the Ovation technology and the old Ovation factory. And we already know that Ovation never cold have done it on their own. No the guitars don't have round synthetic backs anymore.
It's time to get over it and be thankful for what we DO have rather than moaning about what we don't. Go play your guitars !!! |
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Location: Jet City | Mark in Boise - 2013-05-03 6:32 PM No one wants a Fender acoustic, just like no one wanted an Ovation electric. I'm from BIZARRO world I guess. My favorite electric was always my Ovation, and my only acoustic for more than 2 decades was a Fender. Go figure |
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Location: Denver, CO | It's time to get over it and be thankful for what we DO have rather than moaning about what we don't. Go play your guitars !!! I'm down. I need to change strings anyway. Then I'll play. |
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Location: Chicago | You are right Dave. We're gearing up to record a few new duets in the Stealla Maris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8wdKrVAQk4
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Location: SoCal | I'm getting to a point in life where I don't give a rats *** about what everybody else is playinig. I play what I like. Are they the ultimate in acoustic guitars. I donno. But they suit me. And they sound damned good. Nobody who hears the 1537 walks away thinking it sounds inferior.
Besides, the music's in me, not in the guitar. The guitar is just a tool. I think my days of buying guitars just because they're cool are in the past.
What I really want (and my OFC slothead, GC 12 string, and 1773LX Custom are going up for sale to help with it), is one of these (and no, I'm not talking about the cornfield).....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWgbRK0gDws
Edited by moody, p.i. 2013-05-05 10:42 PM
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Location: Boise, Idaho | So I took Dave's advice and went down and played my guitars. When I came back, I found out he sold his Thunderhead. Last time I take his advice. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Totally hypothetical here, but if it was 100 to 10 to 1 then potential sales dollars might look like...
100 buyers in a range of $300 - $600 ............ $30,000 - $60,000
10 buyers in a range of $700 - $3,000 ........... $7,000 - $30,000
1 buyer in a range of $4,000 - $15,000 ....... $4,000 - $15,000
Your proportions are probably about right, but don't forget that there are at least a couple dozen competitors trying to carve market share out of those same segments. I would also expect that the profit margin gets thinner as you get near the bottom end of the price range. There is money to be made in all three categories, many companies do just fine by finding their niche. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I play almost every guitar that costs over $1000.00, on a regular basis, to satisfy my gas. Plugged-in, Ovation rivals any guitar on the market. Acoustic. They come up rather flat. I'm not talking about the "older" Hartford guitars, I'm talking about the new stuff. Not one "import" sounds remotely like an acoustic. I love Ovations, but most of us play unplugged a large amount of the time. I believe Fender could give a rat's rear about Ovation. That's why they put Guild in Hartford. I don't see nice things as far as Ovation in the future. The signature models and the Adamii might do OK if they don't price them out of the market. You all have heard me talk about my love for Ovation. You know what Fender does to acoustics. I'll leave it there. |
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Location: Chicago | "Acoustic. They come up rather flat." (?) I beg to differ. Listen for a few seconds to our UNPLUGGED Adamas and Elite below ("GUITARFIRE CD > Audio" ). I've been to Guitar Center/Sam Ash etc. many times, played many axes. My 1581-5 is superior. It's not "brand loyalty": it's ears, heart and hands.
Edited by dobro 2013-05-08 6:33 AM
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | I said the sig models and the Adamaii would do "Okay". I'll keep my 2005 Adamas, but I've sold everything else. I agree 100% that the older O's sounded great. But the new ones. I've seen the same one's sit on the wall at my local store for 2 years. He cleans them and puts new strings on them. They just don't sell. I just think Fender couldn't care less about Ovation. That's too bad. They make some great guitars. But when all people get to play are the cheap laminate top "Celebrities", they don't actually get to play the Ovation standard.. I compare the Celebrity to the Dodge "K" car. They had the Dodge name but that was it. Someone who would love and care for the brand, please buy the company and give Ovation a fighting chance.
Edited by AdamasW597 2013-05-09 8:42 AM
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Location: Chicago | Hey, at least Kaki is carrying the Adamas torch! I'm more impressed with her than with Saylor Twit. I would not doubt that the "skinny" girl plays Taylors because she likes the coincidence of name and brand |
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Location: Right now? | "Noah", be careful; you don't want squirrels building a nest in that guitar (haha)!
Willa
Edited by WillaMuse 2013-05-16 1:03 PM
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Location: closely held secret | Ovations still show up... Nice uke. 
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Location: Chicago | OK, so here's my last thought as we watch the Ovation recede into the sunset. Because it has an awesome legacy, whatta you wanna bet that in X years it will be revived like flare pants, turntables + vinyl, or the Ford Mustang? .... a beautiful retro gem amidst a swamp of generic electric-acoustics! Hip once more! In order for that to happen, however, it has to RIP for quite a while. It would not hurt to clear the horizon of the low end trash. I think of this example: after the 35-year tsunami of digital keys and synths I now note refurbished MINIMOOGs on stage again. Why? They are super-cool and have an unique voice. Heyday: 1970-75. |
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Location: SE Michigan | BTW I was just in Guitar center the other day. I played the new Martin Artist Series, nice but nothing to get all worked up about and i dont like the new neck profile. Know what caught my eye (and ears)?? The low end Taylors. I was quite impressed with what you can get in a Taylor guitar for $500-$800. Looks like Taylor has dialed in a way to deliver a very serviceable solid-top guitar at near entry level prices. After playing a few I think the competition should be concerned. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | legend74 - 2013-05-18 5:08 AM OK, so here's my last thought as we watch the Ovation recede into the sunset. Because it has an awesome legacy, whatta you wanna bet that in X years it will be revived like flare pants, turntables + vinyl, or the Ford Mustang? .... a beautiful retro gem amidst a swamp of generic electric-acoustics! Hip once more! In order for that to happen, however, it has to RIP for quite a while. It would not hurt to clear the horizon of the low end trash. I think of this example: after the 35-year tsunami of digital keys and synths I now note refurbished MINIMOOGs on stage again. Why? They are super-cool and have an unique voice. Heyday: 1970-75. Another example - valve amps! |
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Location: Tennessee | Looks like Taylor has dialed in a way to deliver a very serviceable solid-top guitar at near entry level prices. After playing a few I think the competition should be concerned. Made in Mexico. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Speculation & conjecture. All very fine, and accurate, "in the eye of the beholder", though I agree with Paul- "the music is in me". I love these guitars, think they are inherently a better design, but will not mourn & writhe in pain, with their fading. That's business. I deal with beancounters, understand their role, don't always agree with their direction, but THAT'S BUSINESS! And yes, it affects, to an extent, the quality of my life, but there are bigger-fish-to-fry.
I like checkin' in, so keep up the diatribe. |
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| It's funny... I've been a pro for years but only started playing Ovations 13 months ago.... And from the very moment I walked into a gig, rehearsal or sound check I've had to defend my choice of guitar... I now know what is meant by the "O" stigma! I believe a lot of it comes from the fallout of the import market. I made a point of a buying a vintage Hartford made Custom Legend when I went looking for an acoustic/electric knowing that I'd be getting the real deal and at least could decide for myself if it was a quality instrument. I think a lot of the negative vibes come from two places... People are turned off by the "plastic"... And.... The music business in all of it's forms has turned it's back on innovation. Everything has to be "vintage" or "reliced" or ROOTS.... Some how a throw back to a past era. Ovations were designed and built during the Space Age. People have a tendency these days to celebrate the musical styles of the past.... Like Dobro wrote just above... Years from now people will rediscover Al Dimiola and modern music and Ovations will be all the rage. Will. |
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Location: Australia | I couldn't care less about any perceived O stigma any more. Most people speak out of ignorance because they've never played a decent one. I've seen more than one convert who's been floored by the sound of my Adamas.
I really thought Fender would've done a great job with O just like they did with Gretsch.
This really sums up Fender's attitude towards Ovation. The stupidest pic I've ever seen.
http://www.themusiczoo.com/blog/2013/factory-tour-fender-custom-sho... |
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Location: south east Michigan | Fender & the ol' Mothership.
Reminds me of a foreign invaders occupation of another country.
Never the less.... They are doing good work at the old mill by the river, and that's a good thing.
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I wonder what ever happened to Ovation's laser vibrometer.
That was an interesting machine.
I'd think it would be just as useful a tool for a wood box as a roundback. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Brad Durasa - 2013-05-20 9:55 AM
I wonder what ever happened to Ovation's laser vibrometer.
I believe that it and the world famous Orgasmatron are now part of JeffW's unique but warped collection of personal pleasure devices. |
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Location: Chicago | One more thing: My experience on YouTube reveals that many vintage shows by the Big Boys feature a TERRIBLE sound from an Ovation. It has to do with venue, pickup + PA, Pickup direct, bac micing etc. But there is a lot of unfair "evidence" from the days when sound production was more primitive. This for example, is not Al's best sound (maybe the cheesy chorus?): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLNYdKIVgM
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Location: Miami | It's a shame that potential guitar buyers can't hear a higher end O or Adamas with an OP-PRO through a Bose L1 or the like, instead of hearing a low end Celebrity unplugged and forming their opinion of Ovation on that :-/
(nothing against Celebs, just sayin'
Edited by Jukebox Joe 2013-05-22 9:53 AM
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | joetunon - 2013-05-23 12:52 AM :-/ (nothing against Celebs, just sayin') I've always said (and others) that's the real reason for the Stigma. Nothing to do with marketing or endorsements or availability or accessibility or slipping off your knee. A Celebrity is NOT an Ovation. They are what they are - a cheap wannabe. If you've owned a real USA 'O', you know the Celibacy's are cheap s#it. Well made cheap s#it, but cheap s#it. If that offends anyone, get over it. THEY'RE NOT OVATIONS! They should NEVER have had the Ovation marque on the headstock. Have 'Celebrity - by Ovation' on the Label by all means, but call a spade a spade. |
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Location: sitting at my computer | joetunon - ... (nothing against Celebs, just sayin') just agreein' |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Time for the Celebrity Bashing...
My first "Ovation" was a made-in-Korea 4861 Balladeer.
I have owned CC44, CC57, GC057, TC12, multiple CS257's, CSE24's, CSE44, CC54i,
and I currently have a CC29S-4C.
All of them were/are nice guitars for what they are... affordable guitars.
I would match the quality of a Korean CSE Celebrity to the current AX series.
(which is why they don't make the CSE series anymore)
Celebrity Guitars have nothing to do with the "O Stigma"...
(USA Ovation owners bash Celebrity's more than the general public)
Crappy-sounding X-series Martins haven't caused people to say that CF Martins suck.
Amongst the "guitar community" people don't like Ovations because they are Plastic.
"They sound like a Toy" "They don't sound like Wood" "They slide off of you Leg"
All of those are code words to try and hide prejudices of people who have never played an Ovation.
But somehow a Rainsong, Blackbird, Emerald, or Composite Acoustics are Cool.
(But as good as the CA guitars may have been, they could not survive financially)
My Prejudice is that I heard and played-with an Ovation in 1971, and I was hooked.
People in the General Public bash Ovations because they have heard other people do it.
And they want to be accepted by the tribe.
It is like bashing the Yankees... You don't even have to like baseball, it is just FUN! |
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Location: Miami | OMA, I agree that lower end Martins don't cause people to say Martins suck, but the point is that you can find both hanging on the wall. Not any more with Ovation, though. The Celebs are now their ONLY point of reference. And that's what sucks.
I also agree that people bash Ovations because they have heard other people do it. Nevertheless, we know what we got, and so do our audiences. And as I've said before, people STILL ooh and ah at my Ovation and Adamas like they've never seen or heard anything like it before. I could totally see what someone else said: high end USA Ovations coming back as a specialty collector's item with a whole new audience to appreciate them.
Until then, as I said, we and our audiences know the goods when they hear and see them. |
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Location: sitting at my computer | joetunon - ... Not any more with Ovation, though. The Celebs are now their ONLY point of reference. And that's what sucks. agreein' again! Yes most initial O bashers were "plastic" haters who probably never even played an Ovation. But nowadays even IF they wanted to actually try one they likely can't. I doubt if their opinion will change much with only Celebrity models hanging on the store walls. Maybe if they're honestly comparing 'em to the equally priced options. Imagine trying to form an opinion about beer when all you ever get to taste is Budweiser.  |
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| I think it's the cheaper ones that set me off. The first time I ever saw an Ovation was when I was 15. My friend's cute sister had one. I tried it and it sounded like crap, but I had nothing to compare it to. I just thought Ovations were cheap starter guitars. It wasn't until earlier this year that I tried a vintage Ovation Glen Campbell and fell in love. The sound and quality was there. Upon more research I found that vintage Ovations are the best, aside from the US ones, of course. They just fell into the import-hype that all major companies fell into. Personally, I really love the older models and I want to add one to my collection as soon as possible. I think it's just poor education, along with an absence of PR. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I would like to see the sales figures. Just how many CHEAP Ovation imports are they selling in the US, and what is the total net profit from those sales. Chances are, if I was CEO, I would say "let's just drop the product in the US." |
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| darkbarguitar - 2013-05-23 3:55 PM
I would like to see the sales figures. Just how many CHEAP Ovation imports are they selling in the US, and what is the total net profit from those sales. Chances are, if I was CEO, I would say "let's just drop the product in the US."
This is the right way to run a business, but I don't think it's how music businesses should be ran. I realize that is a pipe dream... |
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Location: Cork, Ireland | Why care? From my point of view they are fairly good guitars that can be got for good prices used. I will probably never be in the market to pay a 4-figure sum for a guitar. If you like 'em, buy/play 'em. |
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Location: Chicago | Brand loyalty, I guess. Like allegiance to a team. Why care? If you don't get it, it's not worth explaining. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | paulramon1992 - 2013-05-23 3:18 PM
darkbarguitar - 2013-05-23 3:55 PM
I would like to see the sales figures. Just how many CHEAP Ovation imports are they selling in the US, and what is the total net profit from those sales. Chances are, if I was CEO, I would say "let's just drop the product in the US."
This is the right way to run a business, but I don't think it's how music businesses should be ran. I realize that is a pipe dream... 
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | From my personal experience, y'all need to take your guitars on on the street corner.
I don't know what the stuck-up people at those open-mic things say...
But every day people say "Cool, Ovation" "Wow, that is an Awesome guitar" and such things.
In the past Five Years there may have been a couple of people that said something bad about Ovations...
I can count them on one hand, and they might have been joking.
So I ain't gonna care what other people say.
There is something satisfying about playing a guitar that few others have.
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | arthurseery - 2013-06-01 5:22 PM
There is something satisfying about playing a guitar that few others have.
For me they're more of an addiction. Since I was a kid and first saw my hero Glenn playing one on tv they have been the reason I cruise pawn shops and stop into music stores, for hopefully an Ovation experience. Owning one is a touchstone to a simpler, happier time in my life. I've had Martins, Gibson Hummingbirds, teles, vintage Gibsons and who knows what all else. No other guitar ever speaks to me at the emotional level an O always does. You'd think that since watching the Beatles on Ed Sullivan got me started on guitar a week later and eventually on bass I'd have owned Gretschs and Hofners. An O is what I always have to come back to. The only other manufactured thing that has an equal place in my life is the 60's split front windshield VW buses. I practically lived in one in my early 20's and still regularly check out a website that deals exclusively with selling them. It's at the top of my bucket list to own another one, but the last one I sold for $300 would go for $30,000 now so it's gonna take a major windfall to ever land another one in my driveway. Anytime I spot one on the road I'm momentarily transformed back into a 20 something until it is out of sight. Same with an O except they make me feel even younger. When something gets into your soul it's a part of you, an important and relevant part. The VW buses routinely got me harassed by Indiana rednecks ( the worst ones) who wanted to beat me up for long hair and a hippie bus. The O's I've constantly had to explain were NOT plastic. Both of these things ultimately make me very happy and like Old Man I don't care what others say about them. Chances are I'd find something ridiculous in the lives of the bashers they wouldn't be able to fathom my dislike for. Charlie Kaman changed the world and he revolutionized mine with the only guitar I could ever revere. I'm currently without one because we've had a lot of expenses for a second one of our kids' wedding taking place later today. Even on a disability income I'll eventually track down the next one the Universe has destined me to have. My new hand built OM will suffice until then and I basically got it free because of an arrangement I have with the builder to market and sell his guitars for him. Whatever I get beyond compensating him for materials investment is mine to keep since he sells me the guitars first with payment due after I have sold them. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one in here whose soul is partly composed of a love for these guitars, and it's a very satisfying condition to have. |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | legend74 - 2013-06-02 8:07 AM If you don't get it, it's not worth explaining. Good one! |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Hey Dave. Find the 'Enter' button on your keyboard and have a play around with it. See what it does...
Edited by muzza 2013-06-02 6:48 AM
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | Ok
ay... giv
in
g it a sh
ot now.
Nope, don
't lik
e where
thi
s is go
ing!
LOL
Edited by DaveKell 2013-06-02 3:02 PM
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Location: Michigan | Funny how this all goes. I was playing in church recently and the sound tech who is a music major at a big ten school (guitar performance) looked at my 1114 folklore and shook his head and said he really hated silk steel strings. I told him I really liked the way it balanced the tone on the guitar and then he told me that is why he did not like ovations because they sounded too tinny. Funning thing is the tone on the 1114 blows the Taylors in the group away. Some people just don't listen....
Edited by twistedlim 2013-06-02 3:46 PM
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Location: sitting at my computer | twistedlim - Some people just don't listen.... Yeah well, ya can lead a horse to water but ya can't make it think. Some folks don't 'listen' with their ears before 'judging' with their eyes. --------------- Pret ty fun ny Da ve. Kee p prac ticing!
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I like what OMA said in this thread and some others, but bottom line... I think Ovation has to some extent outlived it's usefulness.
The workingmans guitar, high quality at an affordable price is something that can no longer be sustained. It's that simple. They were GIVING AWAY the Adamas guitars for years, charging a FRACTION of what it cost to build them because the import line was so profitable it allowed them to keep the USA line affordable.
I think THAT was their undoing... There are TWO landmark Ovations in the For Sale section of this site. And there they sit. Ovation is not seen as a "high end" guitar by the masses, because based on their price point, they don't have ANY high end guitars. There's never been a $10K or $12K guitar to my knowledge in their catalog. I'm not sure there has ever been a $4K guitar in their catalog, maybe as MSRP
In Musicans Friend there are some Private Reserve Ovations in the $3K range... that's nice (sarcastic) if you search "Acoustic Guitar" and set the sort to highest price first... Gibson, Fender, Martin and Breedlove all have more expensive guitars listed. There are certainly even Taylors in that and higher price range.
In fact, you can't even select "Ovation" from the brands list anymore you have to search Ovation from the general site search. An Adamas and two Koa Elites show up for $3,849. The TOP OF THE LINE Adamas at under $4K... They obviously aren't as good as all the other brands. I know it's hard to read, but perception is EVERYTHING.
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Location: Canada | This is a depressing thread. I don't even like trying any boxy guitars because they are so uncomfortable. |
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Location: Minnesota | I was listening to a coffee house player the other night. I asked him what kind of guitar he had....he said a taylor...you get what you pay for.
The reason I asked is because I thought by the sound, it had to be a real cheapie! It didn't sound near as nice as any of my guitars. I told him
I had an Adamas and he didn't even know what it was. Frankly, my old legend sounds 10 times better! It's sad to see most of the ovations being made overseas. Though, I bet even some of them could take on that little taylor of his. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | mileskb - 2013-06-03 3:07 AM
... There are TWO landmark Ovations in the For Sale section of this site. And there they sit.
Miles, I think that's due to the economy more than their perceived value, especially in this group. Four or five years ago when something cool was posted here for sale it rarely went to ebay. In fact, I remember guitars I would have jumped at, sold before I realized they were for sale. I really don't know anyone who's buying guitars like they used to.
If I was even close to having the cash to buy the OFC2 now, I'd start selling other guitars to come up with the rest. Unfortunately, it's way out of my league these days.
I do agree with your assessment that the general guitar playing public doesn't value Adamas and Ovation guitars over many "name brands" that aren't nearly as good.
Edited by Designzilla 2013-06-03 12:47 PM
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Location: Miami | Yes, perception does count for a lot. My first exposure to an Ovation was in 1986, when another guy and I played solo at a dinner for clients. I had a Knocked up old Yammy and he had this wonderful instrument that kinda looked like how my Yammy might have been had it gone to heaven for a divine makeover! It was an Ovation; I'm not sure whether it was a Legend or a Balladeer, but my tongue was nearly on the floor ...
The second time was when I was living in Segovia, Spain, in the late 80s, and I hooked up with a Spanish guy who also played guitar. He had an Ovation Classic nylon string. Again, it seemed to me that these instruments were acoustic guitars taken to the next level of aesthetics and sound, and I knew I'd buy one eventually.
When I finally did get one in the mid 90s it was a deep-bowl non-cutaway Elite, and I considered it my first big name high-end guitar. By this time, I'd owned a British handmade 000 and a German Lakewood dread. But this Elite was thrilling in a way that the other two were not. I didn't know so much about models and such, but as far as I was concerned, Ovation was up there alongside Martin and Gibson, except that Ovation made instruments that seemed to have a luxury and elegance that surpassed that of the old wooden boxes. It was only years later, when I took up the guitar again in 2007, that I realized from guitar forums like AGF that Ovations were derided and spoken of in the same breath as cheap imports.
But whatever they say, first impressions count for a lot, and Ovations, I think, will always carry a mark of distinction in my imagination and memory that nearly all other makes, great and small, cannot quite match. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Like many of us, I was out of the guitar picture for 20 years or so. When I started in the 70s, Ovation was the hot guitar. The old school people then still went with Martin, but no one had heard of Taylor. Martin had a foreign brand called Sigma that was considered a good guitar if you couldn't afford a real Martin. I was fortunate to have a fiancee with a job, so we scraped together enought to buy the cheapest USA Ovation we could get, my Matrix. A soon to be relative had a Legend, which I envied, but he never looked down on my poor Matrix.
When I decided to get back into guitars a few years ago, I was surprised that there was an Ovation stigma. The first time I heard of it may have been when our daughter took guitar lessons in college. Her instructor talked her out of getting an Ovation and into an Ibanez that she has now sold. Her first two came with problems and had to be returned, which should have said something. She asked the same guy to look at a 1537 for me, but I don't know if he even looked at it before he criticized it. Then I started hearing this stuff about sliding off your knee and learned that there was a big difference between the Celebrities in the stores and the USA Ovations and Adamases that were still being made. I only knew of the USA models and the Applause models back in the 70s. I retain my Ovation bias from all those years ago. Some might call it an obsession. I presume that other people who may be more reasonable than I would retain their biases in favor of Taylors or Martins or whatever. The only difference may be that Ovation hasn't built up the bias in its favor like Taylor has.
Timolin, I played a $15,000 classical guitar in Barcelona, which was very nice, but I like my Ovation Classic better. The fact that I could get 30 more for less than $15,000 might have affected my hearing. |
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Location: Denver, CO | I was hashing through a few things with my lead guitarist yesterday, who happens to be playing MY strat right now ;-) I was playing the LX, but I said something about the T, and he said, "Oh, yeah, the plastic guitar." I thought, Et tu, Brute? "Well, Stevie, it's just like this one, only with a different finish..." But there you go. Same song, different verse. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Don't worry, Jon, Stevie will come around eventually. We still have a lot of O's to go. He might rethink his comment when he sees the OFC-II in carbon fiber. |
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Location: Denver, CO | Show him the Breadwinner, Brad. |
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Location: Chicago | I have been noticing Rainsong guitars here and there. No hint of any problem that they're made of "plastic" or "carbon fiber." Is carbon somehow classier? I know it's expensive (Adamas showed that some time ago) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I think Adamas faced an uphill battle - different SHAPE, different MATERIAL, funky COLORS, gold SPECKLE, ornate CARVED woodwork ... it was too much or the average Joe to digest. Quick - name one successful acoustic guitar that was red? Yeah, same here.
What Rainsong has going for it is that it looks (shape) like a traditional guitar, and they make no attempt to hide the fact that it's carbon fiber. So the street appeal (and probably the sales) are no doubt well ahead of Adamas. But DON'T confuse that with the fact that it MAY be a dreadful sounding and terrible playing instrument. I have no clue as I've never actually played one.
Edited by Standingovation 2013-06-16 1:33 PM
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I've played a couple of Rainsongs in the past. They were nice, well-built, durable guitars, no doubt. But they just didn't click my gears at all. There are quite a frew woodboxes that click my gears big time, but nothing has ever had the lasting appeal of my O's. I've had high-end Taylors, Martins, and a super nice Collings come and go. I hope to have others as well. (A OOO-45 is my pipe-dream guitar for example.) But I've laways had an Ovation handy for over 20 years now regardless of the rest of my stable. I don't see that changing. |
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Location: SoCal | moondogsturn - 2013-06-03 10:30 AM
I was listening to a coffee house player the other night. I asked him what kind of guitar he had....he said a taylor...you get what you pay for.
The reason I asked is because I thought by the sound, it had to be a real cheapie! It didn't sound near as nice as any of my guitars. I told him
I had an Adamas and he didn't even know what it was. Frankly, my old legend sounds 10 times better! It's sad to see most of the ovations being made overseas. Though, I bet even some of them could take on that little taylor of his.
There's a guy who's been coming out to our jams on Friday night and he's got a Taylor. Special ordered with an engelman spruce top. It's really a beautiful sounding guitar. That now makes 2 Taylors that I've played over the last 15 years that I really liked. I didn't ask what it cost, but I would have bet about $3500-$4000. I wouldn't have traded my 1537 for it.
What I can't figure out is, does my 1537 really sound that wonderful, or have I just played it so long (20 years), that it's a part of me? But then, who cares..... |
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Location: SoCal | Standingovation - 2013-06-16 11:32 AM I think Adamas faced an uphill battle - different SHAPE, different MATERIAL, funky COLORS, gold SPECKLE, ornate CARVED woodwork ... it was too much or the average Joe to digest. Quick - name one successful acoustic guitar that was red? Yeah, same here. What Rainsong has going for it is that it looks (shape) like a traditional guitar, and they make no attempt to hide the fact that it's carbon fiber. So the street appeal (and probably the sales) are no doubt well ahead of Adamas. But DON'T confuse that with the fact that it MAY be a dreadful sounding and terrible playing instrument. I have no clue as I've never actually played one. Conventional appearance, unconventional material... I added some photos of the Rainsong JZ1000. Looks, feels, and plays like a jazz archtop. It is light as a feather. Impervious to humidity and temperature fluctuations. The obvious attention to detail in the cloth layup, provides (in my eyes) a great up-close appearance and character. This is a fabulous sounding guitar. It is from the original Maui guitars, when Dr. John Decker, an aeronautical engineer, was creating them in small numbers. They were very expensive to make. Not many were willing to pay such a high price (I think for an unconventional material). Not many were produced. 
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Location: Flahdaw | That's a very cool looking guitar, but I never cared for that Rainsong color choice....too industrial looking for me. |
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Location: Chicago | More truth: That IS how you market a guitar!!
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/megabbs/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=34...
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Location: Denver, CO | A few weeks ago my lead guitarist and I were sitting around on the porch fiddling with some riffs for a couple of new songs. I was on the LX and he had my yellow strat, since his was in the shop and the only guitar he will play is a strat... I said something about the T, and he said, "Oh, yeah, the plastic guitar!" Kind of sarcastic. I informed him that no, it's actually just like this one except it only has 1 set of sound holes and the kind of strange textured finish, and then we moved on to something else. Sunday, we played a baptismal service together, and there was no electricity out by the pool, so I brought 2 Elites, the T for me and the LX for Stevie. So we played for about half an hour or so, and as we were packing up, he says, "Wow! That's awesome! I've gotta get me one of these! This thing is so much nicer than the Taylor I used to have!" THAT, my friends, is how you market a guitar! IMHO, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for getting your superior product into the hands of those who are capable of personally recognizing its quality. Now, Stevie may never actually go out and buy an Ovation acoustic guitar, but I GUARANTEE that when the subject of acoustics, or acoustic/electrics, comes up, he will mention Ovations and how sweet they are. At what point did Ovation stop making an effort to put their top-line instruments in the hands of the people who can best understand them, and therefore best represent them to the public? |
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November 2008
Posts: 400
Location: Northwest Arkansas | Just have them play an LX or an older deep bowl. I have a whole new admiration since I got the 1983-1111 Balladeer. I heard a lot of smart remarks about it today when I picked it up from getting a bone bridge put in. They heard it and one of the sales guys came over and said it had a great neck. All they have in stock are a bunch of Celebrities. Nice guitars, but they just do not stack up to the American ones. |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | It's interesting how a guitar brand can "define" the player and his music BEFORE he's even played a note. An old Martin means one thing, an Adamas another. A few years ago Jeff and I entered this video in a Guitar Player performance contest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8wdKrVAQk4
Almost immediately there was criticism: we are clones of "World Sinfonia" (a DiMeola record) because we were holding Ovations.... yadayada. The tune ("Black Adamas" is HONESTLY not in an Al D. style. Influences, yes, but what's up with the "Ovation=Glenn, Al, fusion... whatever" knee-jerk assessment? I was told at a gig a while ago that I'd strike a better "pose" or image without the Ovation. Bollocks, I say! |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1116
Location: Keller, TX | darkbarguitar - 2013-05-01 9:45 AM
How much would it cost to have, say Taylor Swift, strap on an Ovation when she performs on stage?
I'm not sure this is much of a selling point... |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Have you actually listened to any Sailor Twit stuff? Some of it is actually quite good.
I wanted my daughter to experience an open mic and she chose two Taylor Swift songs. I'd never listened to any of her stuff before and I had the same automatic opinion as TexasDoc.
Now having said that, if Ovation DID attract Saylor Twit as an endorsee, her fans wouldn't be looking to buy a $2000+ dollar guitar, so the Taylor Swift signature model would invariably be a Celibacy - so back to square one. |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | My point was apparently missed...... |
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Joined:
August 2002
Posts: 599
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA | Hi, Everyone!
I still get comments on my 1990 Ovation Elite. The WOW factor is still there after over 20 years. I remember when I saw my first Ovation. It was Glen Campbell playing it on TV. Then in 1969, a friend of my brother brought the second one ever sold in CANADA to our local high school, and I got to play it, under close scrutiny by its owner, from time to time for week! Can you say, "I GOTTA GETME WONNA THOSE!", or what? Ovation had put a franchise in our local drugstore? just to get the guitars out there, and this was in CANADA, remember? The druggist's son, who was a DRUMMER, got the first one. It came in a cardboard box. My brothers' friend, a bass player, lived in our basement for 8 days while his parent went through a divorce. After the 8th day, I went into Ovation withdrawl. I later sold all 5 of my guitars to get my first Ovation, and later in 1990, 5 more guitars including 2 Ovations, to get my Elite. Ovation really dropped the ball when tried make an electric guitar, and then lost Glen Campbell as an endorsee at one point. I think the Collectors Series left the average guy, who could always afford a great product for the money from Ovation, at all levels, a bit out in the cold. I worked in a music store from 1982-1985, and guess what happened in 1983? Everybody wanted a Martin 150th Anniversary, not a 1983 Ovation Collector's Series. The franchise got moved to the big Canadian chains after that, like STEVE KRIMAN's, Long & MacQuade, and we became a Martin dealer. Ooops, I said the "M" word. I still love my Ovation, but being on a disability pension , I can no longer afford to buy a USA-made Ovation. I always wanted an Adamas since they were first made, but the moon is going to touch the earth tomorrow, too, so ladies and gentlemen in Ovation land, somebody, "has got some splanin' to do" about my beloved guitar. Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
Mike S. |
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The "O Stigma": getting the truth