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Location: SE Michigan | Anyone using Autotune voice pitch correctors, or voice processors? I am learning that some of my favorite pros use these things so I am curious. I have played around a bit with the TC-Helicon Voice Tone HarmonyG which simulates harmonies. I was interested more in pitch correction, doubling, and the thickening-compression effects.
So, does anyone use these or have experience with them?
Thanks!
Brian
Edited by Brian T 2012-09-28 9:49 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | I have never heard it used where it sounds natural. I always think of that Cher song "Do You Believe In Life After Love."....sound like R2D2 trying to sing |
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Location: Tennessee | I have one of the TC Helicon units ... not sure of the model but it's a stomp box style. The very first rule that comes to mind: Use Sparingly. |
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Location: SE Michigan | Bobbo, do you use yours for harmony or for pitch correction/compression/doubling?
I was watching some Walk Off the Earth videos on youtube and the singing is excellent, someone was saying in the comments that they use autotune pitch correction. I would have never noticed, they just sound like awesome singers to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEdD2_pdG_c&list=UU9PEibgWOqZ-1I1Jdx...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U0NFgoNI7s&list=UU9PEibgWOqZ-1I1Jdx...
What do you think? I think I am a moderate middle-of-the-road singer, but if a pitch correcting box could improve the sound to that extent I am on it!
I heard the same group doing a song on The Ellen show and I heard some off notes, like maybe they were not using all the their effects.
Edited by Brian T 2012-09-28 11:07 AM
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Location: south east Michigan | I think you sound just fine as is.
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And I should know.
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A touch of effects to thicken things up is fine, but I don't think we need pitch correction.
At least I sure as heck hope we don't. |
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Location: SE Michigan | I know, just wantin to take it to the next level. Check out these two videos, same group, same song, one clean and polished in the studio (I heard it took 27 takes to get this right) and the second live on stage with a couple clinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9NF2edxy-M&feature=autoplay&list=UU...
versus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvviLGNydeg
By the way I am amazed by this group; Walk Off The Earth. Insanely talented. |
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Location: Tennessee | I've never used or even played with the pitch correction, if my unit even has it. I have the Harmonizer G XT. I've used the doubler for a few things (think "I Should Have Known Better") but mostly I've played around with the harmony stuff. The onboard effects processing is OK, and useful if you play through a completely dry PA and want to pick up a little ambiance. Although you have to use the same effects settings for both the vox and guitar if you go that way, but you can also send the guitar signal out to another amp, through your effects chain or directly to the board.
I rarely use it though ... there's only a few songs I like to use it for, and never more than one or two songs per set as it really doesn't sound very human to me ... and I'm not much into synthesized music. And I'm am either doing solo or a trio thing, so adding a bunch of voices is a bit weird for the audience. BUT, it can be a hugely fun toy to have around and great for the occasional novelty song, especially one where the crowd tends to sing along and then the box helps "them" out. I imagine if I was playing with a full band and multiple vox then adding the effects in could be a nice additional layer.
The most use you'll get from it is sitting around your place playing with it and entertaining yourself.
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I joined a second band a few months ago that plays classic rock (doesn't every band?). One of our female soloists just purchased a TC-Helicon unit to add a full range echo to a song we're working on by The Damned. We were messing around with the settings and came across a preset that changes her voice into a baritone male in the same key she normally sings but a few octaves lower. The effect results in some truly weird stuff. I doubt we'll ever that setting. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | So we're on the same page... there are a few "uses" for Autotune..
1. Lets get this one outa the way. The device Cher and others used that you can actually "hear" in the song is an effect. We hear it on purpose because some producer thought it was cool. It has nothing to do with their voices being pitchy... which they may or may not have been, but that was corrected likely long before the robot effect was applied.
2. If someone sings really well, doubling with an autotune saves time and just fattens the vocal track if done right. This will work for harmonies, but usually needs someone to sing the actual harmony line to sound the best then the Autotune can make the harmony sound fat and it's a "guide" to what the Harmony should/could be.. which brings us to....
3. A great way to sing is to sing with yourself. Using autotune against a recorded vocal track, then singing the either the final or backup tracks listening to the autotune output gives a solid track to follow. Also, if you have trouble if hitting a few notes of a tune, you can get the device to do it for you so you can learn the right note.
4. To fix a note/phrase. Some instruments can be fixed within most software today, but voices are tougher and there's a bit more than just adjusting the overall pitch. An autotune plug-in works great for this. One might say "why not just re-sing the note or phrase". That's not always the answer. There's more to singing than just the notes. Sometimes you just get a great take, and that one word or phrase was delivered with just the right emotion and nuance... but... it's just a tad off sharp or flat. Just fix it.
These are the most common uses. There are many many others, it's not a one-trick pony. And lets not forget that auto-tune works great for guitar and bass as well. Some tunes can really be punched up by insuring the Bass is spot on, every singe note.
There is a lot of debate about autotune and it's been used for years. Here's my thoughts and there are essentially two. In recording you either want to produce the best sounding recording, or the best representation of the artist being recorded. It's a choice that's made at the onset. While they certainly overlap, those are two separate goals. The tools change to meet the goals.
Like any tool used in music... "less is more" is a good mantra.... except for volume.. than always more. 
Just a sidenote.. I wonder what Cher's tech's are stuck with at shows to make that sound the same every time live. That's must be fun.... NOT.
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Location: SE Michigan | Thanks Miles.
So is the "Autotune" you speak about a software feature on some recording application? Or is it a hardware effect that gets plugged into the signal chain?
Clearly we want to use all the good stuff for recording but what about live shows? Still as effective?
I hear lots of great recordings and I wonder how the heck do they get that thick crisp vocal sound. If it corrects a slightly off pitch note so much the better.
Be very afraid credit card, more gear on the horizon....
Edited by Brian T 2012-09-28 1:50 PM
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | I like a little "room" reverb on vocals - and that's about it. Pitch correction, to me, is cheating. It's the difference between having true vocal talent and being a "manufactured" celeb like Britney Spears, who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket to save her life. Slather her "vocals" with 20 layers of doubling, run it through a pitch corrector, and it's so overprocessed you can't tell if she's singing on key or not. Which is fine, because she's eye candy.
Machines like this may be appropriate for certain types of music, but in general I don't see the use for them. If your vocals are so "iffy" that you want pitch correction, maybe you just need to practice your vocals. I don't think your vocals are off - you're just trying to kick it up a notch. But you might be able to do that just by working on vocal parts more.
Luckily, I and the people I sing with don't have pitch issues for the most part. We do acoustic rock - acoustic guitars, keyboards, light percussion, and sometimes bass. A little reverb on vocals, light effects (mostly a little chorus) on guitars, and whatever effects the electric keyboard has. If we fluff a vocal note when we're singing (which doesn't happen often), we think of it as a little grit with the polish. It's organic, it's natural - it's real. Most people in the audience don't even notice. If we want to touch up a recording, we go back and re-sing the note at the correct pitch. I've gotten pretty good at "punching in with a foot switch.
I'm not trying to discourage you from getting a vocal processor. It might be fun to play with, and there might be some useful effects on there. Any effects you use are going to alter your natural voice, sometimes for the better. It's the pitch correction part that I have issues with.
When you use that, it's not really you...
Edited by rick endres 2012-09-28 2:54 PM
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Location: Jet City | I always have pitch issues... that's how you know it's me singing |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Brian, that live performance of WOTE on Ellen. There was a bit of discussion on that because the lead singer had a pretty bad sore throat and they actually thought about cancelling the performance.
What you are looking for might best be handled by the new TC-Helicon "Mic Mechanic". There are some videos on their site but to be honest, a friend of mine got one about a month ago to use at open mics and he sounded much much better than any of the videos did. Seems to be exactly what you are looking for with simple controls to adjust just the key effects.
With the generous return policy of BC, MF, SW and others, I would think that for the $150 or so it would be well worth giving it a try for 30 days or less and then making your decision. |
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Location: Flahdaw | I had that TC Helicon vocal processor with pitch correction for a while but sold it...I didn't like the sound of it. I can usually keep in pitch okay, so all it really did was crap up my vocals, imo. We all have unique voices and it's up to us to make them shine, with either the right melody or the right lyrics. I wouldn't WANT to hear Bob Dylan or Neil Young with Autotune.
I've heard your recordings, Brian, and you sing just fine. Be Brian. (Now Brad is another story...) |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Not sure which one you had Bob but the "Mic Mechanic" has only been available since the first of August. |
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Location: Flahdaw | The Voicetone Correct, I think it was called. Good news was I sold it for almost as much as I paid for it |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | I can't believe nobody has suggested the (to me) obvious. Rick came closest.
Try this...
Singing lessons!
And FWIW, you sing fine, and voice coaching will definitely take you to the 'next level'. |
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Location: Spain | I have to agree with Rick, just sing, bit of reverb and that's it. If we make a few mistakes then so be it, it's all character in our act. I have one or two videos on You Tube, and I'm damn sure I'm off pitch in just about all of them somewhere :-)) I wouldn't change it though :-)) |
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Location: Delaware | TC Helicon voicelive, I don't use the pitch correction. I do use the reverb, thickining, compression and delay. Mostly I use it for the harmonies. Used spairingly it is a great enhancement for a soloist. I get lots of compliments from people on the sound of the harmonies. A bit of a learning curve to get it sounding human, but I think the new voicelive 2 makes it somewhat more user friendly. I like mine so much I bought a spare one! |
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Location: closely held secret |
I also agree with Rick.
But mostly I'm just disturbed by how many of you watch "Ellen"...
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Location: NJ | I can still hear most autotuned vocals and instruments |
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Location: Utah | I have trouble hearing myself when I sing, thus making pitch a problem. Having the correct pitch in my ear helps a lot. When I've recorded at home I have used a software pitch correction on the first take, then re-recorded the vocals using that corrected track in my ear. Which is the long way around to saying it might be helpful to someone like me to have the pitch correction playing in my ear for a live performance but not necessarily put it out over the PA. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | "THANK GOD FOR AUTOTUNE."
I was watching a trailer for the new ABC series "Nashville" starring the luscious Hayden Panetierre as an up and coming young country music star. Her "new hit song" is playing in the background while the camera intercuts to Hayden rehearsing the song; people in cars mouthing the words as a radio or CD player plays the tune; Hayden onstage singing it live; Hayden recording it in the studio. There's an amusing moment when the producer slides the faders down to zero on a monster board and mutters under his breath, "Thank God for Autotune."
I kind of chuckled in the light of this thread we've been discussing.
It might be worth checking this show out. First of all, it's music oriented. Secondly, there's at least one scene where the lovely Hayden sings dressed in a bustier, Daisy Duke cut-off shorts, and cowboy boots. I saw it; I don't know how/why it's necessary to the plot, but I'm not complaining! 
Here's a clip:
http://tv.msn.com/video/tv/?g=880b1c83-cc6d-4f0c-be55-ba74c08e2a6a&...
Edited by rick endres 2012-10-05 8:06 PM
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Location: Texas | Calm down Rick, you just had surgery....
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Learn how to sing. Just like any instrument, it takes practice. Lots of it. I had to have vocal chord surgery and had to learn how to sing again. It took a while, but I did it. So can anyone else. Just keep doing it. Finding the right key helps. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | standing - 2012-10-05 8:47 PM
Calm down Rick, you just had surgery....
I know - that's how I found out everything still works! |
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Autotune - voice pitch correctors - voice processors