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Location: Chicago | Over many years of playing we all have had a few "ah ha!" moments from a teacher, a buddy, a column in Guitar Player, a video lesson. Id love to hear what your best lesson was (or one of them): a scale, a chord, a trick, something technical, picking pattern, rhythm, song or just plain "how to make music".....
For me, one lesson that stands out was Emily Remler (video lesson) on the "jazz minor" scale. I had never worked on the "Melodic Minor" and its various modes. This was a revelation.... so simple, yet so beautiful! |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Personal advice from Matt Smith . . . learn to sing (in your head) your ad libbed lead licks, then simply play what you hear, meaning that if you can hear it in your head, you should be able to play it, and does that ever work for me. Second piece of advice . . . as long as the notes are within the chord structure of the piece, anything goes. This advice reinforced my tendancy to move away from the sheet music and make up my own counter melodies when playing an instrumental verse or bridge. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I think my best "lesson" was the day I realized that rather than being the serious, important, creative thing I THOUGHT my music was, I discovered that I play because of the "Whee!" factor. In other words, my fingers are having fun and I am having fun, and music is nothing more than the same kind of fun I had when I went sledding as a kid.
When that happened, my music improved tremendously. When I let go of my ego, the music itself was able to shine through. I'll never take myself seriously again! |
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Location: SoCal | From Matt Smith, "Paul, it's called playing the guitar, not working the guitar"...... |
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Location: Tennessee | From Matt Smith: "It's acting with melody". |
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Location: Flahdaw | Never had a lesson, never had an "ah ha" moment.....wish I had. |
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Location: Tennessee | I KNOW you've had plenty of "uh-oh" moments. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Every moment is an "ah ha" moment for me, because I started with so little. My first guitar lesson, about a year ago, the teacher drew out a chart explaining what you guys already know, answering my question, "What do these guys mean when they say it's a I, IV, V song."
My problem is doing something with the knowledge before I forget it. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | This Matt Smith guy sounds cool. Who is he? |
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Location: Flahdaw | MarkF786 - 2012-08-15 2:53 PM
This Matt Smith guy sounds cool. Who is he?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQZ2g85OEQ
Edited by BobG 2012-08-15 2:16 PM
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Location: sitting at my computer | " I'll never take myself seriously again! " +1 I prefer to live & play with that mindset too! I've only had one "real" guitar lesson, I was 17 and it didn't go so well... my mom hired a family friend's uncle who was a (long retired) guitar teacher... I wanted to learn some contemporary songs, Jim Croce, Paul Simon, James Taylor, etc... well he had ZERO interest in any of that and only intended to teach me classical. End of the lessons! Since then I've just figured it out on my own, and with song books, how to play what I wanted to play... and with loads of help from fellow guitar players I've met along the way. I have had lots of "ah ha!" moments though, mostly all just simple (once you know how) insights, learning an intro (the 12 string intro to Hotel California comes to mind), being shown barre chords, trying different chord fingerings (open A with 1st, 2nd and 3rd fingers... or 2nd, 3rd,and 4th... or 1st, with the 2nd finger on both G and B strings), learning how to adjust the action, learning about transposing, etc... Just a collection of little insights that together have helped me build up a modicum of ability over the years. Still got soooooooooo much to learn, in the meantime I just keep playing and having fun with it. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I guess I should include finding this site as one of those moments. My guitar playing had been dormant for years. I've learned more about music from this site than I have from any lesson. An example is Stephen introducing me to Pete Huttlinger. His instructional videos are fantastic. |
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Location: Chicago | At 3:00 in this lesson, Larry Coryell introduces the "jazz minor"; a nice resource for harmony and ideas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIpkABVrdn8
I used another mode of this scale for my tune "Tamboura":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTmsI61-lnc&feature=plcp |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Besides great tidbits over the years from Matt Smith, seems I learn something any time I look at one of his videos are talk to him, I subscribe to one of Claude Johnson's free lists. http://www.guitarcontrol.com/ What I really like about Johnson's emails is they are short, simple and fun. Sometimes they are a song, or lick or a riff and I'll just check it out. Sometimes I get ideas for other tunes. It basically amounts to a subtle nudge every couple days to play a guitar. |
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Location: Chicago | The "subtle nudge every couple of days to play the guitar" is probably the best "lesson" of all! Great site. |
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Location: Midland, MI | "You know, there's no law that says you have to play a note or chord every time you count a beat." |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | Matt Smiths links to slide guitar and open tunings bar none is the best. I am having so much fun its like learning how to play guitar all over again. The best advise I ever had or lesson, was from my Uncle Homer. Years ago he had a 50's Gibson black beauty I think, and I was playing for him. I made mistakes and I was so nervous because he played so well. He told me. "As many guitars there are in the world, thats how many levels of playing there is" I still get a little nervous playing with someone who plays like dobro does, but it was a great lesson. 
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Location: Chicago | From your latest work, sounds like the slide-guitar lesson was well leaned and applied. Right on! |
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Location: Connersville, Indiana | Thanks Greg, man I'm am just like a child in a candy store. I keep finding different colors of sound, I never was able to obtain before, or even thought I could. Still rough but I will do this, no matter if my finger is numb, I still can use it with a slide on it, or use my middle finger for the slide, which I'm liking the best. I just wish I had Jeff's e mail so I could thank him for a great voyage ahead of me. 
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Location: Chicago | A lesson of HUGE importance for me at about age 15 was a column on alternate picking for the right hand (McLaughlin on what he called "circular picking" and full use of all fingers of the left (so-called "quadraphonic fingering" by Mitch Holder): I realized that I was using mostly down-strokes and only two or three fingers of my left; my lead playing style was that of a wind-mill: inefficient, noisy, and slow. I found myself essentially having to re-learn the guitar. Total suckage for about a year. The result was well worth the pain, however. A great workout for chordal alternate picking, in fact, is JM's tune "Guardian Angel": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUNKTXNEtI&feature=plcp
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Location: Newington, CT | Great topic, Greg!
For me, it was probably the time that I re-picked up the guitar. I hadn't played for a LOOOOONG time, and my then girlfriend invited one of the finest guitarists I have ever heard to her house for a party. His name is Frank Varela, and he's REALLY good. He's the husband of Deva (great name!), a former colleague and current dear friend of my then girlfriend's and mine, so that's the connection. Frank's very definitely world class, without the fame.
Well, my girlfriend insisted that I bring my guitar along, and all I had then was an old pot of a Takamine that I had bought for $249 quite a few years before. I was pretty insistent that I didn't want to bring the guitar. She was pretty insistent that I bring it. Who do you think won THAT tussle?
We had the party, and my girlfriend announced that Frank and I would play a little. I was TERRIFIED! First I had the old pot and second he was 100 times the guitarist I was. Frank graciously offered to lend me his VERY nice Ovation Elite, while he would play my cheap, old Takamine. In the next 30 minutes or so, I learned a HUGE amount.
• First: equipment DOES count. I sounded a LOT better, just because I had a better guitar, with a better setup, better action and newer string.
• Second: a great guitarist can make a cinder block sound good. All of a sudden, there was my "old pot" Takamine singing just beautifully.
• Third: a great guitarist can make his co-musicians better, just by playing at or slightly above their level. With intimidation out of the equation, the less advanced musician understands that he has a rock-solid musician who can pick him up when necessary, lay down a solid rhythm and be perfectly reliable, even during an extended jam session, which is what we did.
• Fourth: a nice Ovation can sound REALLY good. It led me to various Adamii (1681, 2080, MERB, OFCII) and other Ovations.
I've never had any music lessons in life, but this served as one of the most significant learning experiences ever in my guitar life. |
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| No "ah Ha ! " moments that I can recall. There are quite a few getting over the hump moments. Things like being ABLE to play a chord that I thought my fingers would never get. ( I still prefer the E shaped and Am shaped barre chords to the A shaped ones, however. ). It would be NICE to have a good ah Ha! That keeps the desire moving forward. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | JohnW63 - 2012-08-20 8:44 PM
It would be NICE to have a good ah Ha! That keeps the desire moving forward.
Same here... haven't experienced one in almost 40 years. Last one was when a friend of mine, Randy Handley, who is a successful Nashville writer and blues performer said "I'm gonna teach you a blues lick that's gonna change your life". He did and it did for a few years, but since then it's been a long drought for any musical epiphanies. However, like someone else said, "breakthrough" moments are another story. Stefan Grossman DVD's for fingerstyle have me playing first whole new repertoire in decades. |
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Location: Newington, CT | LOTS of "ah ha" moments just from trying new things and new chord configurations. Example: Bm and D are frequently interchangeable and give a slightly different and wonderful flavor to a song when swapped. Well, if that's the case, then other chords have corresponding "near equivalents" too! Like: C-->Am, G-->Em. Then to discover these near equivalents is simple math. Ex.: D is to Bm as F is to what? (Dm). And all the others. And found all that out just by playing around and experimenting.
Another such moment just yesterday! Did an Em at the third fret (xx5453 where first "x" is Low E in pitch -- not sure if that's correctly notated), and then moved my index finger down a fret to barre all the second fret (225453) to make a GORGEOUS, exotic-sounding chord that, by sight at least, seems as though it shouldn't work. But, as mentioned above, it's just gorgeous. Well, of course, now I know that particular formation works every else you use that chord shape.
Just have to try new things to have all sorts of "ah ha" moments! |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | A guitar teacher in a nearby town, used to have his students read poetry. For years I couldn't figure out "why"? Then one day the proverbial light bulb came on and I realized he was teaching them meter and inflection. Read a poem out loud, if you can read well, and you will notice it has a timing and a voicing of the words. Apply that to your lead playing. When you do scales, use a different meter, and put more emphasis on one note than another. Essentially, play like you talk. You don't speak in a monotone, you need to learn to "speak" with your guitar. Sing a phrase in a song and try to play the notes on your guitar the same way they were sang. You'll realize that's why really great guitar players sound and play better. My playing took a huge turn after I figured that out. My improvisation skills got a LOT better. When I was offered a solo, I took it and never, after using that method, did I have the fear of playing with other guitarists. I hope that helps someone. It made a huge difference in the way I played. There are thousands and thousands of ways of playing the same scales different now. I have more hints, but'll let you'all try that one for a while. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | The Bm is called the relative minor to D. It's the 6 chord. The 6th note in the major scale of whatever key you're playing in, is the 6th chord. A-F#m, B-G#m, C-Am and all the way down the line. The key of C is simplest. C-1, D is a 2 or 2 minor, Em is 3, F is 4 and so forth. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Relative minor??? That's my 12 year old nephew.
Bless those who are steeped in music theory.
Me??? I'll just acquire and hoard all the best Ovations I can and let others worry about technique.
Edited by Slipkid 2012-08-22 9:40 AM
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Location: Newington, CT | A couple other cool things I learned just fooling around:
Thing #1: I can figure out how to play just about any song, just by picking out the melody and seeing in what chord the melody notes fit. In this way, I figured out Somewhere over the Rainbow, Memory, Danny Boy, The Carnival is Over (Seekers), Summer Song and, of all things, the basics of Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini, by Rachmaninov. This is easiest for the simpler songs. Those with lots of key and tempo changes require the same technique, but for for each section. In this way, I've made signinficant inroads on Spanish Eyes and Time to Say Goodbye, just by picking out the melody.
Talk about fun practice sessions! You can just sit down anywhere, call a song to mind, hum it a bit, pick out the melody and be WELL on the way to learning a new song!
Thing #2: Many, MANY songs can be played nearly entirely using the Am and Em (at the third fret) chord shapes up and down the fretboard. I figured that out when I was learning (using the above stated method) "the Carnival is Over," a portion of it reminded me of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and started me learning that one. Then, a snippet of Somewhere recalled "Memory," (from Cats) a part of which reminded me of the Rachmaninov. After I figured out "Danny Boy", I tested my theory on it. Yep...the same chords up and down the fretboard.
Sweet! I learned all that stuff this year, in successive "ah ha" moments. Talk about fun!
Edited by AlanM 2012-08-22 10:09 AM
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Location: Newington, CT | Have to offer a correction: This is what I typed in a previous post:
"Another such moment just yesterday! Did an Em at the third fret (xx5453 where first "x" is Low E in pitch -- not sure if that's correctly notated), and then moved my index finger down a fret to barre all the second fret (225453) to make a GORGEOUS, exotic-sounding chord that, by sight at least, seems as though it shouldn't work. But, as mentioned above, it's just gorgeous. Well, of course, now I know that particular formation works everywhere else you use that chord shape."
I was wrong. The new chord is 225452 (not: 225453).
Apologies for the misleading post before!
Try the chord. It's just beautiful. It requires some stretching, so if you want to have a feel for what it is on a different part of the freboard, you can try: "003230". It's the same thing, only moved down two frets. Beautiful! Enjoy!
Edited by AlanM 2012-08-22 10:20 AM
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | aminer2000 - 2012-08-22 10:18 AM If you want to have a feel for what it is on a different part of the freboard, you can try: "003230". It's the same thing, only moved down two frets. Beautiful! Enjoy! There are some fancy names for this chord according jguitar.com (see below), and it is a chord I use in Classical Gas just before the end of the turnaround between verses. | A5add#5add11 | A 5th Add Sharp 5th Add 11th | | Asus4#5add12 | A Suspended 4th Sharp 5th Add 12th | | Asus4#5add5 | A Suspended 4th Sharp 5th Add 5th | | E7b9sus4/A | E/A 7th Flat 9th Suspended 4th |
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Location: Newington, CT | I'm 'fraid I'll be forever ignorant of how these chords get named! I'd have figured that the 225452 chord would be an E something or other, and the 003230 one would be a D# something or other.
Edited by AlanM 2012-08-22 11:55 AM
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Location: Chicago | The last few posts offer some fantastic insights (thanks!) Who says that jazzers have a monopoly on chord substitution? And the analogy between soloing and reciting poetry is remarkable. |
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Location: Location Location Location | I guess one of the coolest things I learned is the b5 substitution. In a II V I Progression, such as Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, G7 is the V. You'd go to the 5th of G, which is D. So, flat 5 would be Db7. The cool thing about it is that the Db7 just gives a slightly different sound to the progression. So instead of playing Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, you can alter the sound by now playing Dm7 Db7 Cmaj7. The reason it works so well is that the G7 and the Db7 have two notes in common, F & B.
Edited by GaryB 2012-08-27 1:36 PM
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Location: Newington, CT | Gary: Could you please expand on this a bit? It sounds really cool, but I'm not sure (1) what a II V I progression is, (is, for example: "C-G-B" a "II V I" progression?) and (2) what calculation you do to make the substitution you describe for all other II V I progressions?
I guess I'm just not sure how you concluded: The 5th of G is D, therefore flat 5 would be Db7.
I apologize for the ignorance of my question, but as you can tell, I'm not real well versed in theory.
Edited by AlanM 2012-08-27 2:01 PM
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Location: Location Location Location | Alan, a II V I is a standard jazz progression. C G B would not be a II V I. The progression is IIminor7 V7 and I Major7. So in your example, it would be
II (Cmin7) V (F7) I (Bbmaj7). II is the second degree of the Bb scale, V is the fifth degree of the Bb scale, and Bb is I. In the scale of G (G A B C D E F#), D is the 5th degree of the scale. The flat 5 of this scale would be Db. So, the formula is that Db7 substitutes for G7. It works because of the common notes to the 2 chords G7 & Db7, which are F & B. It's one of many subsitution rules that work, but a good place to start, because it's a pleasing altered sound, to my ear. There are tons of free information about chord substitution on the internet, and they're great for giving you a different slant on writing and improvising.
As far as figuring other II V I progressions. It's the II scale note, the Vth scale note and the I in every major scale. So in Cmaj ( C D E F G A B), it's Dm7 G7 Cmaj7.. As far as how G7 goes to Db7, you use the scale from G..G A B C D E F#...D is the 5th note..you flat that note for a Db7. Then to figure it out chromatically, go to Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C=Ebm7 Ab7 Dmaj7..and so on through all the major scales. .
Play this progression Dm7 G7 Cmaj7..then play the substitute flat 5...which would be Dm7 Db7 Cmaj7..It's a great sound alteration..also..the Dm7 chromatically to Db7 to Cmaj7 adds to the mix!
Edited by GaryB 2012-08-27 5:35 PM
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Location: Newington, CT | Thanks, Gary! I didn't get it all, but I think you left enough sequences to try in there for me sit down with the ol' OFC II and try to figure out the rest! Let's see what comes of it!
Very much appreciated! |
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Location: Chicago | Alan: If you look at the progressions of standard tunes, you'll find ii-V-I sequences everywhere (or the shorter ii-V). A given key is articulated by progressing thus through the cycle of fourths for two chords (V-I) three chords (ii-V-I), four chords (vi-ii-V-I) and so forth. The point is that, while you are in a given key, the chords are built from the parent scale. The chords relevant to Cmajor are C major, D minor, E minor, Fmajor (#11), G dom 7, A min, B min7b5: the "harmonized" C major scale. Thus, while we are in C, we will be cycling through fourths with either two chords: G7-C, or three Dmin-G7-C, or four Amin-Dmin-G7-C; most standards (think "All the Things you Are" cycle through a key for a bit and then modulate to another and yet another. It's a prerequisite for playing over changes to be able to analyze the relationship of chords in a tune, the shifting tonal centers and to identify appropriate scales and arpeggios that go with each sequence. The chord substitution that Gary mentions is often called a "sub five": the basic idea is that the "core" of, say, a G7 is the tritone between the third and seventh (B and F); it so happens that this same tritone (in reverse) is the core of Db7 as well; hence the Db7 sounds very close to G7 and works nicely as a substitute chord for the dominant seventh. The root movement then is chromatic: D minor, Db 7, C. Theoretically, you discover the relationship between chromatic root movement and the cycle of fourths. Message: "Cycle of Fourths" "ii-V7-I" and "sub five" are essential elements of harmony that are "must-know" for musical literacy and growth! |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | I know this runs counter to accepted wisdom, but I learned by playing SONGS first and pick up the theory later - IF you want to. It keeps it interesting and fun.I'm not a virtuoso guitar player by any means; I'm a pretty good fingerpicker and a fairly accomplished rhythm strummer. I can throw in some minor lead licks and runs and fills. If I was in CSN&Y, I'd be Crosby, and not Stills or Young.
I'm self-taught. Tablature was a lifesaver. I can haltingly read standard notation at about the level of a first grade reading book - "David and Ann went to the store. 'Look, look!' said David. 'It's our dog, Zip.' Obviously I can't sight read guitar music. You can set down a piece of music in front of my son Rick (who has a Bachelor of Music Performance degree) and he'll play it note for note for you on piano or trumpet, even if he's never seen it before. To me it's just a bunch of ink blotches on a staff. People say, "But you're so limited by not being able to read." I say, '"Bull---t." I'm in good company. Lennon and McCartney couldn't read. James Taylor couldn't read. I usually want to play a song because I've heard it, and tab is fine for that. When I first took up guitar I woodshedded night and day. Within two months I had learned enough and sounded good enough to get out and play live. But I knew I wanted to go farther. I didn't want to be the California Guitar Trio, but I wanted to sound good and play good, and I needed some "A-HA!" moments to unlock some gates
One of my first "A-HA!" moments came when I found Happy Traum's iconic "JAMES TAYLOR" songbook in 1970. I still have it (actually I have all my music books from those days). It had all those great songs from his first Apple album and "Sweet Baby James." Within a few days I was playing "Fire & Rain," "Carolina," "Sweet Baby James," "Steamroller," and all those great tunes like a pro. Not only that, I learned to apply what I learned to other songs as well.
Another "A-HA!" moment came when I found a Jerry Snyder book on fingerpicking. I'd been frustrated in my attempts to learn independent thumb Travis picking, which Gordon Lightfoot does a lot. Jerry had a simple method where you started out playing bass strings with the thumb, then the thumb and one finger, then the thumb and two fingers, then the thumb and three fingers. Shortly after that I learned to co-ordinate chords and melody. It was one of those smack your forehead, "I was making that harder than it had to be!" moments. After that, my playing opened up immensely.
My advice is to keep it fun. Learn to play songs first. Nothing kills the fun of learning guitar like doing nothing but running scales. "You need to learn all your notes and scales and modes; you'll be ready for your first song in about five years."
Not me, babe.
I never did go back and learn scales and theory, although after 43 years I've instinctively picked some up along the way. I may not know what something's called, but I know it works together. Do I regret it? No. Would I be better if I learned theory, etc.? Maybe, but I'm happy where I am. Not everybody has to be a guitar ***.There's a place in the world for the support player. I've been playing out non-stop for 43 years and I can still play as many times a month as I want. It's fun.
Like someone said earlier, "It's called PLAYING the guitar, not WORKING the guitar."
Have fun!
Edited by rick endres 2012-08-31 1:32 PM
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | You can't be serious. Apparently the site is censoring my attempts to put guitar g-o-d in the above post. I edited it twice, and both times g-o-d came out as ***. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Very similar to me, Rick, except that I still have not picked up a book. I was happy to learn later, after watching instructional videos on youtube, that I had naturally learned how to do stuff just by years of trial and error.
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | rick endres - 2012-08-31 1:25 PM
One of my first "A-HA!" moments came when I found Happy Traum's iconic "JAMES TAYLOR" songbook in 1970. I still have it (actually I have all my music books from those days). It had all those great songs from his first Apple album and "Sweet Baby James." Within a few days I was playing "Fire & Rain," "Carolina," "Sweet Baby James," "Steamroller," and all those great tunes like a pro. Not only that, I learned to apply what I learned to other songs as well.
Thanks for mentioning this. I just found a used copy for $.01 on amazon with $3.99 shipping for a $4.00 total. Looking forward to receiving it. |
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Location: cincinnati, ohio | Bob - if you've never used a book for anything, my hat's off to you. You do it all by ear? It sounds amazing.
Dave - so much for the theory that if you hold onto something for 42 years it becomes immensely valuable. :D It's a great book; you'll enjoy it. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Rick- I meant books on technique or playing lessons.....never used those. I've used songbooks if they have the pictures of chords (although I mostly just learn songs by ear. That's why they are almost never the correct way) |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | darkbarguitar - 2012-09-01 9:50 PM
Rick- I meant books on technique or playing lessons.....never used those. I've used songbooks if they have the pictures of chords (although I mostly just learn songs by ear. That's why they are almost never the correct way)
Give me a break !!! "almost never the correct way". Geeeeesh. I've heard several songs you've covered and wished I could get halfway to your level. I can't stand self deprecation by the way. Get your courage up and start admitting that you have this thing down and that you RULE dude. |
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January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | I didn't say I sounded horrible, just said I don't play most songs the "correct way." I'm sure there are plenty of people that roll there eyes when I play something thinking "that's NOT how you play that song!" My point was, No lessons, no ah ha moments, just years of goofing around til things started to sound pretty good, then discovering my technique I had developed was pretty much what I would have been taught anyway if I HAD lessons. Ha! |
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Joined:
April 2010
Posts: 1227
Location: Connersville, Indiana | I know this is more than likely going to cause a s@%$ storm of a response. I'm self taught, I can not read music. I noodle around and find a great sounding chord and look it up so I can write it down. I have a saying I have always gone by this idea since I don't read music. If you are taught music theory and how to read music you know what you should and should not do and the limits of how to play the right way, in other words bound by that theory, but if your self taught you do not know these limitations and you mess around and find a chord that sounds good to you, and you are not bound by those theories then you can fly out side the box. Especially when writing songs. There has been a few times I have been told, like at church from the organ player, You can't use that chord, it does not fit. But in my own music I do use the chords I have chosen and it works, at least for me. It may not be the correct chord in a certain progression but it seems to work and it sounded good. Now that I'm old I really wish I studied music theory and to be able to read music, so I could go that much farther. Hell I can hardly see all the dots on a music page, let alone read them LOL.
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | All of you guys talking about picking up some theory along the way? I have an expression I picked up from my friend Jay that I use with students - "You already know it, you just don't know you know it."
That being siad, I have to disagree that knowing theory stifles your creativity. If I know a chord "doesn't belong" there, I still use it anyway. And actually, there really ARE no chords that don't belong ANYWHERE. Listen, I mean really LISTEN to some classical guitar pieces and you'll hear what I mean. Some of these pieces have key changes that "don't fit", but the composer knew how to make them fit in a way that delightfully shocks the ear and makes you sit up and listen harder. You end up thinking, "How'd he DO that?" and the next thing you know you've got guitar in hand trying to figure out how to incorporate that weird key change into something of your own.
With jazz it is similar. There really are no rules except the rule that it has to sound good to YOU. Someone once told me that learning theory is like watching black and white TV all of your life, then suddenly someone pushes the button to make it in color. It just opens up many new possibilities, makes the music richer, and it also makes it easier to learn new songs and play with others on songs you never even heard before.
And Bob? I don't care how you learned what you learned, nor how "correctly" you play your songs. I'd rather listen to you than most players I know. PLEASE, let me know when you have a CD available. I'll buy several copies for myself and my friends. |
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Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 4535
Location: Flahdaw | Thanks Allison (no CD coming anytime soon tho) |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Allison - I like that line - "You already know it; you just don't know you know it." I think that fits me to a tee. As far as theory stifling creativity: I agree with you. Creativity is using the "wrong" chord because you want to try something different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look at David ("Mr. Dissonance" Crosby. By the same token, I don't think NOT having formal training has hindered where I want to go with my playing. As you said - I do know it subconsciously.
Bob - got to thinking about your frequent disclaimers about not playing the song the right way or the correct way. What exactly IS the right way or the correct way? When I do a cover song, I try to make sure I cover the "signature" licks as closely as possible (e.g., the intro to "Fire and Rain" - that's iconic), and the little fills and riffs that stand out. But on the bulk of the choruses, while I try to play the chords as close to the original as possible, I throw in variations and use my own picking patterns. It's my arrangement.
You, my friend, have a gift for arranging. I have taken several tunes from your tutorials that I had ever despaired of playing live, and now I play them all the time because of your accessible arrangements.
So whatever it is you're NOT doing, please keep NOT doing it!
Oh - and add me to the list of folks who would LOVE to hear a Bob Glisson CD... |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 616
Location: cincinnati, ohio | Allison - I like that line - "You already know it; you just don't know you know it." I think that fits me to a tee. As far as theory stifling creativity: I agree with you. Creativity is using the "wrong" chord because you want to try something different. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look at David ("Mr. Dissonance" Crosby. By the same token, I don't think NOT having formal training has hindered where I want to go with my playing. As you said - I do know it subconsciously.
Bob - got to thinking about your frequent disclaimers about not playing the song the right way or the correct way. What exactly IS the right way or the correct way? When I do a cover song, I try to make sure I cover the "signature" licks as closely as possible (e.g., the intro to "Fire and Rain" - that's iconic), and the little fills and riffs that stand out. But on the bulk of the choruses, while I try to play the chords as close to the original as possible, I throw in variations and use my own picking patterns. It's my arrangement.
You, my friend, have a gift for arranging. I have taken several tunes from your tutorials that I had ever despaired of playing live, and now I play them all the time because of your accessible arrangements.
So whatever it is you're NOT doing, please keep NOT doing it!
Oh - and add me to the list of folks who would LOVE to hear a Bob Glisson CD... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | I was brought up with too many rules. Music lessons were something we had to take and practice was mandatory. A song was something that was memorized and practiced on an instrument until it was note for note perfect. Singing, however, was something we did for fun. So college starts and I gave up on band, but signed up for an easy credit in a big choir. I never really learned to read bass clef, but had enough background and a good ear to manage. I taught myself guitar because everyone was playing guitar then and I could sing along with it. I still felt compelled to memorize songs, though. If I liked a song done by a female, I'd sing it in the same register. Structure over feel. That's probably why I can't do jazz. I figured out that I am running out of time to learn all the right notes to all the songs I like, so maybe some lessons would help me figure it out faster. Now that I'm taking lessons, I can ask why certain notes sound good with a backing track in the key of A when they don't seem to fit in the key of A. I still don't understand the answer, but I think "because it sound good" is the best explanation.
I don't think Bob plays much of anything the "right" way, but it sounds good. |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | That's a great review of a musical journey, Mark. I know lotsa rules, but don't necessarily follow them. In fact, I was just looking down at my fingers a few minutes ago and realized that, for the longest time, I've been playing this one (basic) minor seventh chord with a totally sick "wrong" note in it (a flat sixth, if you must know). Anyway, the ninth on the first string has something to do with the sweet sound, but there it is: totally wrong, yet fantastic. |
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Joined:
November 2011
Posts: 741
Location: Fort Worth, TX | "Oh - and add me to the list of folks who would LOVE to hear a Bob Glisson CD..."
ME TOO !!! |
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Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | It kinda' sucks that I've had to wait until I'm old and crotchety to be able to work on guitar lessons. I still have a hard time FINDING time. When I finally retire, THEN I'm gonna' learn to play the guitar better. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | aha moment for me
you are a half step from a good note at any point in the fingerboard
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Similar to Al's insight: you don't need to always reach for five- or six-note chords. A few choice notes (two or three) will often sound good as a "chord", especially if they are tasty tones over a good bass note. |
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Joined:
May 2012
Posts: 17
| CanterburyStrings - 2012-08-15 10:53 AM
I think my best "lesson" was the day I realized that rather than being the serious, important, creative thing I THOUGHT my music was, I discovered that I play because of the "Whee!" factor. In other words, my fingers are having fun and I am having fun, and music is nothing more than the same kind of fun I had when I went sledding as a kid.
When that happened, my music improved tremendously. When I let go of my ego, the music itself was able to shine through. I'll never take myself seriously again! Couldnt agree more,recently 2 friends of mine quit playing after several years and both of them were obsessed with playing as good as a pro,which is something that is nigh on impossible for any working family man,me?I play badly but with a silly grin on my face... |
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Best Guitar "Lesson"?