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Location: Marlton, NJ | I was in Sam Ash today and was talking to a friend who works there. I got on the topic that I was thinking of getting a new Adamas or Ovation and was considering a custom one and he said, "Our Ovation rep is here today. You should talk to him."
The sales rep was a younger guy and seemed nice. We talked a bit about what I was looking for and he told me that the custom shop can accommodate most requests. When I mentioned a custom USA Ovation, he replied, "The custom shop mainly build Adamas guitars. I wouldn't bother getting a standard USA Ovation. Why not just buy an AX? They're every bit as good." I politely told him that I didn't believe it. He insisted that they used all the same parts as the equivalent USA model, but were just assembled in Korea for cheaper labor, and he said that he had compared the two and found them to be the same quality. I was trying to get him to admit otherwise - "Come on, I know you have to say that stuff as a rep" - but he insisted.
I then asked if there were any AX models nearby but the only store he could think of that had any was about 100 miles away in NYC! Wow, they mustn't be too popular since there are a lot of music stores in this area.
Anyway, I'm not convinced. I deal with sales reps all the time who misrepresent their product, not because they are intentionally being dishonest but because they might not know all the technical details or be discerning enough to tell the difference. But still, he got me curious to try one some day to judge for myself.
Mark |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Did you check out the sweet Adamas that just showed up in the For Sale section? |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | +1 on Stephent28's comment.
The sales rep is full of #@$%. For starters the neck is different to an LX. Wonder if he's deliberately lying or just ignorant. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | stephent28 - 2012-07-31 8:13 PM
Did you check out the sweet Adamas that just showed up in the For Sale section?
It does look very nice, but I'm looking for a Deep Contour or Super Shallow bowl (something rare). I did briefly try a Mid Depth bowl today it actually it was pretty comfortable. Thanks for the heads-up though! |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | The new AX's are very nice. I just got mine in June. IT plays and sounds great. The contour bowl is a LOT rougher than the normal bowl. It'll stay where ya put it. My guitar sounds great. I love it and haven't had a problem with it. Mark, find an AX, play it and make up your own mind. Asking someone else is like asking them how lasagna tastes. You're gonna get a lot of different answers. You're the one that's going to play the guitar. Try it out. I don't regret buying mine for one second.
Edited by AdamasW597 2012-08-01 8:36 AM
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Location: Sydney, Australia | I've tried them in the shops. They're good guitars, but to say they are the same as the LXs is just not true. Ovation's history has been producing good guitars for the price - all of us have a price point and we want the best guitar we can get for that money. The Celebrities are also good value for money. |
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Location: closely held secret | mymartind35 - 2012-08-01 6:34 AM
Asking someone else is like asking them how lasagna tastes. You're gonna get a lot of different answers.
We're not talking lasagna here. We're talking about similar looking guitars built in two different countries with different build quality, materials and specs, built for different markets.
You like yours, that's great, I'm glad you're happy with it. But whether you like it or not, the AX guitars are inferior to the LX and previous Ovations built in America.
Mark, of course you should take opinions with a grain of salt, but do consider the opinions of owners here who have owned and played American made Ovations as well as imports. I think you'll find the consensus leans heavily toward domestic models, and not just because of loyalty or pride. It's because they are simply better guitars in so many respects. I've owned imports as well as domestic models. The imports are gone.
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Everyone should be lucky enough to find the guitar of their dreams, have the cash to buy it, and love it to death for a long long time.
It might be an AX, maybe a Celebrity, a knock-off, something used, etc. or maybe an honest to allah real USA ovation. Whatever. I couldn't give less of a fecal expulsion what anyone chooses to play, only that they enjoy the process.
Only issue I have is when a posterior cleaner like this Ovation rep makes blatantly untrue statements that cheapen the investment that many of us have made in real USA ovations. Turn the tables around - To state that real USA ovations are of no better quality than the half priced imports is to tell every one of use that in essence we have wasted our money and should have bought import guitars. Way to pay homage to your most loyal supporters.
CLICK
Edited by Standingovation 2012-08-02 9:54 PM
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Location: Texas | "should have bought import guitars" You gotta serve somebody. It may be Ovation... "They're every bit as good" Maybe they are to him. Maybe he wants to keep his job and offer the position that is the most advantageous to his employer. His mission is to see that Ovation remains a viable alternative to other (non-Fender?) companies. What was Ovation is probably academic, in comparison to his current mission. But how the heck can a company remain viable, when the nearest greatest AX Ovation guitar is 100 miles away? It goes back to the majority of the guitars being sold today are around the 400.00 range. Hopefully most prospective buyers happen across this board so that they can be educated as to the difference of what is and the greatness of what was. Can I have a witness...
Edited by jay 2012-08-02 10:49 PM
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Location: Marlton, NJ | amosmoses - 2012-08-02 10:46 PM
...
But how the heck can a company remain viable, when the nearest greatest AX Ovation guitar is 100 miles away? It goes back to the majority of the guitars being sold today are around the 400.00 range.
...
Yes, it's sad that in a suburban area like Philadelphia, the 5th largest city in the USA, it's hard to find a decent Ovation to try. And it's even more sad that in NYC, the largest city in the USA, the selection isn't much better. There only seems to be a handful of small "boutique" shops that are still selling quality Ovation or Adamas guitars.
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Mark. Just play a guitar. If you like it buy it. These other people aren't you. It's up to you. I was making a metaphor about lasagna. 10 people could play the same guitar and they would all have a different opinion of it. I own an Adamas and I love it. I find my CL built well and it sounds almost as nice, considering I paid 1/4th the price. I've played guitar 34-35 years and everyone plays different guitars. I hope you buy an Ovation or Adamas. Just buy what you want. You'll be a lot happier. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | As said some time ago here already, who bought USA made Ovation did an investiment as they got not only the guitar itself but also what is know as AURA (when a thing carries with it a meaning, a story and the "history" . I understand that is hard to accept the USA built guitar vs import guitar concept. And many of you have the attitude to underestimate the imports production and built quality. The early Ovation was much better built then those of the '80 for instance. I got a USA legend LX back in 2005 which has the neck wrongly placed and the top seemed not the best quality but I love it. My USA elite have the bridge slightly off center but I love it, ... am I unfortunate or what ?
It is not WHERE the guitar is build that makes the difference. There is nothing wrong with import guitars other then they do not carry Made in Usa on the label. |
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Location: NJ | if the rep was John I need to talk to him |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | alpep - 2012-08-03 11:46 AM
if the rep was John I need to talk to him
I forget his name, but I mentioned your shop and he didn't know of it, so maybe you have a different rep. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | maremagnum - 2012-08-04 10:43 AM
As said some time ago here already, who bought USA made Ovation did an investiment as they got not only the guitar itself but also what is know as AURA (when a thing carries with it a meaning, a story and the "history"). I understand that is hard to accept the USA built guitar vs import guitar concept. And many of you have the attitude to underestimate the imports production and built quality. The early Ovation was much better built then those of the '80 for instance. I got a USA legend LX back in 2005 which has the neck wrongly placed and the top seemed not the best quality but I love it. My USA elite have the bridge slightly off center but I love it, ... am I unfortunate or what ?
It is not WHERE the guitar is build that makes the difference. There is nothing wrong with import guitars other then they do not carry Made in Usa on the label.
The difference is, a USA Ovation has a lifetime warranty. You could send either of these guitars back and the factory will fix them.
AND, if you had a foreign made O that needed a neck reset, you'd be out of luck. You could take it to a local luthier but he wouldn't be able to seperate the neck from the bowl because the darned things are glued in and they won't come apart. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I am sure the current "Company Line" is to try and convince people that the imports are just as good as the old USA models with the same name.
They know that it is a Lie... We know that it is a Lie.
But the company rep is paid to spout the Line that he is paid to spout.
And the imports could be made just like the old USA models...
But the greedy "people" are just too cheap to do it like that.
(but if you were gonna make them the same, there would be no point in doing it overseas)
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Location: Marlton, NJ | maremagnum - 2012-08-03 11:43 AM
The early Ovation was much better built then those of the '80 for instance. I got a USA legend LX back in 2005 which has the neck wrongly placed and the top seemed not the best quality but I love it.
During what time do members think Ovation was building the best guitar?
I've always preferred the new modular preamps, mostly just in function since I've never compared the sound. Am I missing out on good guitars by not looking at older guitars? |
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Location: Texas | "Ovation was building the best guitar?" Acoustically...1967\68 .... pick any model. Up until the mid 80s' there were certain guitars that might match or possibly exceed the first ones, but lineup wise...the first ones kicked some A. * A/E .... when the OP Pro xxx line came out. *not taking into account Adamii |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The early X braced models were wonderful. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | These conversations about what guitar is better remind me of a Top Gear episode where the conclusion after a race was Jeremy saying something like "So, what you are saying is we just demonstrated that the fastest car in the world, was faster than another car."
I find it hard to say an LX is better than an AX is better than a Matrix etc... They are not comparable. Yes, the $1000 guitar is better than the $300 guitar. DUH!!! I think the import Ovations are fantastic guitars in their pricepoint and can only be compared to other guitars made in the same price point for the same market. Comparing Ovations to Ovations is just silly. Compare a $1000 Ovation to a $1000 anything else or a $300 Ovation to a $300 anything else, and there's a conversation worth having.
And to overstate my point... one word... Academy. Made as an entry level student guitar many years ago that blows away many new guitars today from other manufacturers that are targeted above entry level.
You just can't compare Ovations to Ovations... import or USA built... they're still better than just about anything else out there. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | @MarkF786:
Go on with your research as far as you can. I'm sure there is an Ovation out there that it's right for you (AX/LX or whatever) !
judge with your ears and eyes and do not listen to us  .
I have a collection that starts with a Deluxe Balladeer of 1967 (x braced) that plays fantastically to get to a 2008 Elite equipped with OPPro (x braced, again) that sound amazing. But they are different creatures.
Having an excursus in my collection of all the decades in which Ovation built guitars I experienced that in the early years the precision and care were certainly better than in the boomimg period (70/80) where I noticed that the exponential increase of sales probably went to the expense of manufacturing precision. When you ask good money for a guitar this has to be impeccable, right ?
Nowday guitars at certain level are well built and you don't have fear to make a mistake if your interest is to play . When you buy a guitar that you believe represents a symbol of a specific brand (beyond the guitar itself, wood, labor, construction system, etc ...) you also buy a status symbol, a dream, a value added that you have to pay.
Good search.
Riccardo
PS : I prefer the modern electronic too vs the old school. |
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Location: Northwest Arkansas | Thank you Mr. O. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I don't know squat about watches, but imagine if Rolex made an economy line in Malaysia. Looks like a Rolex, says Rolex on it, well built, keeps perfect time, etc. Basically a heck of a good watch for $1000, vs $5000. for a real Swiss made Rolex. Beats he pants off any other $1000. watch.
I can not for the life of me imagine a Rolex sales rep saying that the Malaysian model is "the same" as the Swiss one, "just as good", "built with the same materials to the same specs", etc. There is something to be said for ethics and integrity. Some people have it, some don't. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Ah, but if they were no longer MAKING Swiss Rolexes, he'd have nothing to lose and everything to gain by telling you the Malaysian ones were the same. |
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Location: Texas | "but if they were no longer MAKING Swiss Rolexes,"
therein lies the sadness of it all.... |
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Location: Flahdaw | Someone should find out what rep handles the Marlton, N.J. Samash. Maybe Ovation can update his training a bit....re-edumacate him. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | darkbarguitar - 2012-08-04 4:07 PM
Someone should find out what rep handles the Marlton, N.J. Samash. Maybe Ovation can update his training a bit....re-edumacate him.
Considering most of their sales are now their imports, he'd be rewarded for towing the company line. |
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Location: closely held secret | Return for regrooving. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | MarkF786 - 2012-08-04 5:24 PM
darkbarguitar - 2012-08-04 4:07 PM
Someone should find out what rep handles the Marlton, N.J. Samash. Maybe Ovation can update his training a bit....re-edumacate him.
Considering most of their sales are now their imports, he'd be rewarded for towing the company line.
Please accept this comment as a friendly gesture - the way it's intended! But that would be "toeing the company line"... which as you can see is what you actually meant. Sorry - I never do this - promise. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | DaveKell - 2012-08-06 9:14 AM
MarkF786 - 2012-08-04 5:24 PM
darkbarguitar - 2012-08-04 4:07 PM
Someone should find out what rep handles the Marlton, N.J. Samash. Maybe Ovation can update his training a bit....re-edumacate him.
Considering most of their sales are now their imports, he'd be rewarded for towing the company line.
Please accept this comment as a friendly gesture - the way it's intended! But that would be "toeing the company line"... which as you can see is what you actually meant. Sorry - I never do this - promise.
Thanks for the correction, but your poor use of ellipsis and hyphens ruined the effect. |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | MarkF786 - 2012-08-06 8:22 PM
DaveKell - 2012-08-06 9:14 AM
MarkF786 - 2012-08-04 5:24 PM
darkbarguitar - 2012-08-04 4:07 PM
Someone should find out what rep handles the Marlton, N.J. Samash. Maybe Ovation can update his training a bit....re-edumacate him.
Considering most of their sales are now their imports, he'd be rewarded for towing the company line.
Please accept this comment as a friendly gesture - the way it's intended! But that would be "toeing the company line"... which as you can see is what you actually meant. Sorry - I never do this - promise.
Thanks for the correction, but your poor use of ellipsis and hyphens ruined the effect.
How weird! Although it has been a number of years since I majored in Comparative Literature at Indiana University, I had no idea my writing was violating any formal rules these days! Thanks for the heads up. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | DaveKell - 2012-08-06 9:15 PM
How weird! Although it has been a number of years since I majored in Comparative Literature at Indiana University, I had no idea my writing was violating any formal rules these days! Thanks for the heads up.
Ah, you're one of those.
Mullah Nasrudin, ferrying a fussy pedagogue across a piece of rough water, said something ungrammatical to him.
"Have you never studied grammar?" Asked the scholar.
"No."
"Then half of your life has been wasted."
A few minutes later Nasrudin turned to the passenger.
"Have you ever learned to swim?"
"No. Why?"
"Then all your life has been wasted - we are sinking!" |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Why do they down selling people??????? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Just when this thread turns into a grammar challenge, PEZ steps in to save the day.
Now if we could get "no caps al" and "can't spell Bill" to join in, we'd really have something to talk about.
Back on track, even when they built USA Ovations, I never met a salesman that knew anything about them. I had to point out the "Made in Korea" label to one after he told me a Celebrity was made in the USA. The only local guitar salesman who knew what he was selling went out of business. He didn't sell Ovations and I was the one who told him that Fender bought them, long after the sale had occurred. Nothing seems to have changed regarding the lack of salesperson knowledge about Ovations.
Edited by Mark in Boise 2012-08-08 9:56 AM
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Location: Flahdaw | Mark in Boise - 2012-08-08 10:54 AM
Just when this thread turns into a grammar challenge, PEZ steps in to save the day.
Funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time.... |
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Location: sitting at my computer | Do O salesmen or sales reps. have to pass any sort of product knowledge test, or just simply request to add the brand to their lineup? I'm bettin' most everyone here knows as much or more about Os & As than the majority of salesmen. - don't go fussin' about grammar... or granpar might boot ya in yer danglin' partycicle!
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Location: Tennessee | My local Kaman rep, Lloyd, is VERY knowledgeable about all of his product line (which is quite extensive BTW), and definitely knows Ovation. Same thing about the other Kaman rep in California that I've met (Joe). I figure the main difference is that they are typically dealing in a business mode, and focused on facts ... whereas we here are in hobby mode and focused on opinions.
I miss the Brits who used to regularly weigh in on our grammar on this board. And I miss Cliff's spelling and punctuation lessons. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | California has movie stars, great weather, scenery and now you tell me you have knowledgeable Ovation reps, too? |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Mark in Boise - 2012-08-08 12:01 PM California has movie stars, great weather, scenery and now you tell me you have knowledgeable Ovation reps, too? only when if front of the green screen......
Edited by stephent28 2012-08-08 2:26 PM
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Location: Flahdaw | THAT could use a grammar fix.... |
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Location: Fort Worth, TX | darkbarguitar - 2012-08-08 4:31 PM
THAT could use a grammar fix....
Admit it... you're the Artist formerly Known as DARK BAR, |
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Location: Flahdaw | That's a ridiculous and insulting accusation!
Btw, aren't YOU the artist formally known as Duane Allman's midnight rider?
Edited by BobG 2012-08-09 10:04 AM
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Hey! I'm the only artist formally known as something around here! |
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Location: Tennessee | I think Waskel was the first. |
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A Conversation with an Ovation/Kaman Sales Rep