|
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I just bought this from Lost Art Vintage. Waiting for delivery (it was complicated by my failed vacation plans). What is the story behind this one? Has anyone besides Al owned or played it? It has the 2-knob electronics and, from the photos, does not look as speckled as the others. Also I notice some variation in the headstock carving pattern....say between the one on Ovation Gallery and my future 47. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Here are the links:
http://www.lostartvintage.com/Categoryinfo.aspx?categoryid=10&categ...
http://www.ovationgallery.com/pageadamas47ri.htm
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 2150
Location: Orlando, FL | I remember seeing this one on Al's site, but completely forgot about the electronics.
Very cool! You are going to enjoy this on a lot!
You should take pics for the calendar! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I hope to! I understand the general meaning of "prototype" but is there a story behind this one? It was somewhat less expensive than other 47 RIs I've seen. I am wondering if there were changes introduced between this prototype and the production run. Also: when was it made? Does it rate a serial number etc.?
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Interesting guitar. The 47 RI's and the 12 OFC slotheads all had the strip of graphite running down the back of the neck. This one doesn't. But that is the original style slothead neck which I think is very classy looking.
I would guess that it has the ANS neck bracing (the new design), not the KBar (it has a truss rod cover). Also, it has the traditional top mounting ring, not the one from the RI's. None of that would make any difference in the sound. Al, on his website, talks about how good the sound is He would know. Bet this will be a great gigging guitar..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Looks to me like a "regular" 1687 body with a normal broccoli neck, just slotted. No Carving on the heel of the neck, no carbon centerstripe, the soundboard shape is not that of the slothead reissues, neck inlays also regular ones as well as not as much ornamentation on the epaulettes and missing the wonderful 47 RI suspension ring. Wonder if the bowl is handlaid fibre glass as on the RIs.
But still an adorable guitar. Lots of fun with it,
Kurt |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | How is the soundboard different, Kurt? Also, what is the function of the "suspension ring"? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | I think it's a stock 1687-2 with the headstock slotted out. Probably "just to see if we can do it" kind if thing. But it is a VERY COOL guitar !!!
Btw, a few people over the years slotted their standard 1687 headstocks. Maybe Temp did, or he told me about it, forget which ... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Sorry, my bad english - not soundboard, but the shape of the fingerboard is different. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | What does the suspension ring do on a "real" 47 RI? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | That looks like a suspension ring to me...
And what a Suspension Ring is (and what it does)...
That pretty binding on the edge is the suspension ring.
Unlike regular binding, this is a "ledge" attached to the edge of the bowl on which the top sits.
This allows the top to vibrate more freely.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | That's a "standard" Adamas suspension ring, not what was used on the original slotheads and reissues.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Sadly, it seems that Moody and Kurt are saying that my purchase is a fake of sorts, a bogus 47 RI (wrong fingerboard, wrong body shape, inferior ring, bling etc.). I am left trusting Al that it sounds good, even if it a phony. Having been on the OFC for some years, I DO trust Al's endorsement. I will hope that the sound quality is sufficient to justify paying 3500. I'll just have to improve and play it really well! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2009
Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | It's a "prototype", which equates to one of a kind. Inherently, it is going to be a little different here and there than what ends up in production...that is part of the cool factor of owning the 1st one of a kick a$$ guitar. I am not sure why you would color the information given as being described as "fake" and "bogus". Asked and answered by a knowledgeable crowd. And it is all historical information you wouldn't have, had you not asked. I imagine once you get a hold of it, you will look at this thread in a different light. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | I would not say it's phony at all !!! It's a one of a kind guitar and a damn nice one at that. A stock 1687 will cost you $3500. So for the same price you got yourself a one off proto with a slotted headstock. I'd say that's a pretty damn good deal. Lucky you saw it on Al's site before I did !!! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | legend74 - 2012-07-14 9:56 PM
Sadly, it seems that Moody and Kurt are saying that my purchase is a fake of sorts, a bogus 47 RI (wrong fingerboard, wrong body shape, inferior ring, bling etc.). I am left trusting Al that it sounds good, even if it a phony. Having been on the OFC for some years, I DO trust Al's endorsement. I will hope that the sound quality is sufficient to justify paying 3500. I'll just have to improve and play it really well!
I never said it was a fake of any kind. It's a prototype. Just like the original slotheads were prototypes of what became Adamii. Al described it and sold it for exactly what it was. And if he says that it sounds tremendous, then it does.
And quite honestly, the neck and slotted headstock are worth the price of admission. I love those.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | What they said. Sorry, my intent was definitely NOT to talk this guitar down. You asked, what we see, and I said, what I see.
This IS a great guitar, in fact, and a piece of Ovation history. That said, it still is not even a great Adamas, but as well a one of a kind Adamas.
And, as I said before - enjoy this wonderful guitar! And lots of fun with it,
best regards,
Kurt |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2005
Posts: 489
Location: California | Dobro- I own a proto dated 1981 and extremly happy with the sound- Yours have all the attributes for a great sound and with a unique ornamentation. Sure you are going to like it; let us know how it goes. Enjoy it. By the way, I never found the story behind my proto because it was made in the old factory but Beal owns a similar one and at the end the factory was able to date it. Your may have a date inside?
Edited by hwebster 2012-07-15 12:42 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | Thanks for the clarification. I think I just did not understand what an Ovation "PROTOTYPE" was. I thought Charlie Kaman's guitar was made around 1976, so that the specs were crystal clear. I am still a bit uncertain as to why a reissue needs to be "prototyped" or build, like Frankenstein, from a bunch of spare parts. Since I've long wanted a 47 RI I was struck by all the things that are different in the prototype. I am sure I'll love the axe. It looks great! There are things I like about the difference: Not much in the way of 'sparkles" all over the top (don't like those). I also like the clean neck without the carbon strip.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | My curiosity is why an experimental prototype when the model was a specific guitar with exact specs? (Ovation Gallery): "Ovation took on the monumental task of building 75 exact replicas of Adamas Slothead # 47... Slothead # 47 is Charlie's personal guitar which resides at the Ovation factory. These 75 reissue guitars feature the same materials and same construction methods as the original. I've had the honor of comparing the reissue to the original # 47 and I can attest that they are exact copies in every way. Equal, if not better." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2002
Posts: 6197
Location: Phoenix AZ | My guess (as good as anyone else) ...
30 years had gone by since they built the original #47. With a very few exceptions (I think a replacement for Cat and a few customs for Marcel) no scrolled headstock slotheads had since been built. So the big question was probably "Can we even DO this". A good first step would be to start with a known quantity - the 1687. Let's revamp the 2-knob FET electronics and carve out a standard Adamas I headstock and see if the damn thing WORKS before going any further.
I would guess (again) that yours is not a prototype in the typical sense, but rather a prototype as a stepping stone to the final 47RI production version. Yes, they knew the build specs of the original #47, but probably (another guess) had to do a proof-of-concept (your prototype) to get the factory manager and product manager approval to commit to the 47RI as a real model. Don't waste time/money on the carved heel, gold sparkles, etc. Just build the basic guitar and make sure the SOUND justifies the name 47RI.
Just a guess ... but probably not too far off. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Which brings up an interesting question. Is the top of the original slotheads different than those on the production models? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Dobro, no shame in the prototypes. AJ has a prototype cutaway adamas - if you look inside the bowl, you can see that they really did cut it away - they started with a standard bowl, cut away a gap and then patched it up. But it's a one of a kind and a fantastic guitar.
If you don't like it, I'm sure someone will take it off your hands. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | I sure don't mean to sound ungrateful. But you can understand my question (that Moody addresses above): Since we have an exact "target" (Charlie K's original #47) why cobble together a "prototype" from "approximate" spare parts that are quite different from the original slothead stock? Al is on record as saying it's one the best sounding "47s" he has heard... Good enough for me! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Gee Dobro... I await your review and your pics.
I read a lot of people talking about your guitar... but your original question was:
"Has anyone besides Al owned or played it?"
And the answer to that question seems to be "NO!"
So, rather that have a bunch of people dis a guitar that they have never touched...
I look forward to your opinion. 
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Dobro, without having been present, I'm guessing that someone in the management/production line wanted to test that a certain bit was able to be done before they start manufacturing. They might have been confident of some bits (so they didn't include that in the proto) but they had some doubt about something. I'm guessing it's something to do with the neck (slotted, carved headstock?) as the other bits seem to be stock standard 1687.
Interesting that there are some white dots on the front lined up with the bridge. Maybe the bridge location is slightly different? Can't see why?
Edited by TAFKAR 2012-07-15 9:04 PM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2003
Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | I agree that it is not the 47RI...I have two of the four 1687-2's and the 1st 47RI to be sold. The story goes that after the 1687-8 reissues were sold, the factory found that they still had some 1687-8's and four 1687-2's. The 1687-2's were to be sent to Germany. The 47RI was made as an acoustic as the original #47 was...looks like the factory took a 1687-2 and gave it a slothead...result is a unique and great guitar! Doubt if it was a true prototype but a modification before they closed the production line.
Maybe Al has the story behind it...
Edited by Tony Calman 2012-07-16 12:42 AM
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | No
this was the guitar that was made as the prototype.
they thought it should have electronics until they settled on leaving it acoustic like Charlie's.
they in turn made the 1687 and 1581 electric.
the OFC has the electronics |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Maybe we might look at it as a prototype for the OFC-I, only in a different color and sans gold trim on the purfling. Its a worthy Adamas guitar hand-crafted from the Adamas artisans in New Hartford. Like all Adamas models, they're hand-crafted customs from a list of available parts and features. Some models are repeated as production models. Some aren't. This one was repeated in a different color scheme and 12 of us grabbed them as the OFC-I. Its a wonderful guitar of which any owner should be proud. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | Kurt, I love your signature featuring that gorgeous red Adamas. 
Willa
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 848
Location: Munich, Germany | Thank you, Willa! This picture was taken for Jerome's homepage: http://www.ovationtribute.com/Adamas_Slotheads/Reissues/%2347_82/1187_247_RI_082.html Best regards, Kurt |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | Dobro,
Like Arthur, I can't wait to hear/see a video of you playing it!  I think you're going to fall in love, and it is GORGEOUS, too! Congratulations.
Willa |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Interesting thread. Can't wait to hear about the guitar when you get it. I thought I would shed some light on one aspect this thread took..
legend74 - 2012-07-15 4:09 PM
Since we have an exact "target" (Charlie K's original #47) why cobble together a "prototype" from "approximate" spare parts that are quite different from the original slothead stock?
This relates to most re-issues and even some originals over time. Just because you have all the specs, doesn't mean you can recreate the original exactly for several reasons..
1. The originals were all handmade so no two where alike. Pretty hard to copy that.
2. The materials have changed over the years. Wood and even Carbon Fiber have changed over the years.
3. Finishes and Glues change over the years... This actually relates to #2 above... It's not that Carbon Fiber changed, but the process for making Carbon fiber can.
This may seem like menial items, but even the glue that holds the top in, if the formula changed at all, can change the guitar. The thickness and chemical makeup of the finish has or can have a huge effect.
Remember the "Q"... the guitar that never was... sorta.. I seem to recall it was a fantastic sounding all CF guitar... until they painted it or finished it.
I also seem to recall a story about the more recent Al Dimeola guitars not sounding like the older ones and it also turned out to be a change in the chemical makeup of the finish being used.
So, while they have the exact specs of guitars built 30+ years ago, it would be nearly impossible to build an exact copy of them. Now it could be argued that they can now build it better. That's subjective, but certainly plausible. Maybe the re-issues will change color in 50 years instead of 30. We'll just have to wait and see.
|
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | I think Miles pretty well nailed it. It's probably a "lets put the elements together and see what we can do then we'll work on the cosmetic parts" guitar.
One question, was the top on the original slotheads (and the early Adamii guitars) different than the later ones? The top on Dob's guitar may be different than the production Adamii --- old school as it were...... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | For the relatively few prototypes that have survived in decent shape, imagine how many have been destroyed over the years. |
|
| |
RI 47 Prototype