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Location: New Hartford CT | There is a 2 page article on the latest and greatest at the New Hartford CT factory in the 6/10/12 Sunday Waterbury Republican American. Here is a teaser link; if you want the entire article you will need to pay $.75 or buy the paper. I'm a dinosaur who actually still subscribes and reads the paper.
http://www.rep-am.com/entertainment/arts/647539.txt |
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Location: Ohio | Cool thanks |
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Location: SoCal | And with the exception of a uke, not an Ovation or Adamas in sight.... |
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Location: Florence,SC | Looks like it might be a mandolin ....
How can you have a photo tour of the KMC plant and not even see one Ovation lurking in the background?  |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Does anyone know which Ovation models are still made in New Hartford? |
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | I saw several at the factory last week; most were not yet recognizable, but there were some Adamii, a Dimeolla or two, a couple of rebuilds (neither of which were mine  ), and a few others. All told, there were about a dozen within arms' reach of the workbenches I walked by. There were probably others at various stages of construction elsewhere I would think. |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | But my question is this: If I ordered an Elite, for example....would it be built in New Hartford?....or China?...or Korea? I'm not clear on this anymore. What about a Balladeer or a Legend or an Adamas? I used to think of Applause as the Chinese version, Celebrity as the Korean models and Ovation as the US models. But I don't think it's that simple anymore after the sale to Fender. |
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Location: SoCal | Unless it's an Adamas or a custom order, it would be built overseas.... |
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Location: Texas | "But I don't think it's that simple anymore after the sale to Fender." I bet you would be surprised how simple it may be. My thinking is, it comes down to the bottom line. Fender has moved most of the O line production out (imo) to keep Ovation a viable company. I would guess that the margins were just too slim on the USA Ovation line to stay domestic. Patch has shown that Ovation can still make a killer guitar, but the cost falls outside the realm of normal retail. Although dated...I believe these demographics illustrate the trend...the trend to over seas production U.S. Guitar Sales Acoustic Guitars
Units Sales Avg. Price
2002 973,522 $443,172,000 $465
2001 847,388 $441,105,000 $520
2000 812,975 $443,071,000 $545
1999 720,088 $392,447,000 $544
1998 611,415 $343,615,000 $561 Electric Guitars Unit Volume 2002 969,103 $477,885,000 $538
2001 895,110 $481,175,000 $537
2000 835,620 $480,481,000 $575
1999 617,259 $369,738,000 $598
1998 542,500 $351,268,000 $647 SOURCE: Music Trades 2003 |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Just assume ALL ovations are built overseas, and that way you won't be disappointed.
If it turns out you get a USA made one, consider it a bonus. |
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Location: Caribou, ME | "But I don't think it's that simple anymore after the sale to Fender."
Nothing is ever simple with Fender. When I was in my formative years, Fender meant something. Yes, that was during the CBS years and the quality was all over the place and they did some dumb things (hindsight being 20/20 and all) but at least you knew what you were buying. Owning a Fender meant you had "arrived". At least in my mind.
Now the name means nothing. Fender will put their name on anything, anytime, anywhere, if they think they can sell it, and then the sales staff lies about where it's made. It's watered down. Martin has done the same thing with their "X" series. Gibson almost did it when they bought Garrison and made a handful of mid priced Canadian made Gibsons. Thank God that chapter is done with.
Not being xenophobic here. I've got guitars made all over the world. I just identify with the brand names. When I see a Hagstrom made in China I feel ill. It just ain't right.
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Location: Utah | "My thinking is, it comes down to the bottom line. Fender has moved most of the O line production out (imo) to keep Ovation a viable company. I would guess that the margins were just too slim on the USA Ovation line to stay domestic. "
I will agree with the first but disagree with the second. It is all about profit, and nothing about the product or slim profit margins. That is just the nature of Big Corporation business. FMC could stay in business building guitars solely onshore, but their profit margins would be much lower. It would be a viable but not lucrative business.
My son has a very nice and expensive violin built by a local master shop. This guy has one other luthier working for him. They make violins not profits for the shareholders. But Fender is a mega corp which has to show good numbers to dispassionate shareholders. Therein lies the emotional conflict for us Ovation and Adamas lovers. We appreciate the products, we admire the workmanship, and we enjoy the technological innovation.
edited to add: I am thankful for the great USA built guitars I was able to buy from Ovation, Adamas, and Hamer at great prices. Too bad I didn't recognize that those prices were unreasonably cheap or that the prices would rise. Otherwise I would have found a way to buy some more.
Edited by FlySig 2012-06-11 8:10 AM
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Location: Texas | Hey Fly....
"all about profit" "nothing about...slim profit margins"
I honestly think we are on the same page...but if not, that is cool.
I am pretty sure Fender has yet to go through their IPO. They have quite a bit of debt. I think a private equity firm owns almost half of the company and their distributor in Japan owns a sizable chunk also.
I did read an article last month that said Guitar Center was Fenders biggest customer...and correlated the fact that Moodys (not Paul) had downgraded GC to junk status. Maybe it was Paul.
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Location: Steeler Nation, Hudson Valley Contingent | stellarjim - 2012-06-10 8:52 PM
But my question is this: If I ordered an Elite, for example....would it be built in New Hartford?....or China?...or Korea? I'm not clear on this anymore. What about a Balladeer or a Legend or an Adamas? I used to think of Applause as the Chinese version, Celebrity as the Korean models and Ovation as the US models. But I don't think it's that simple anymore after the sale to Fender. The only spec wood-top that I'm aware of that is not built overseas is the Al Dimeola. Beyond that Jim, you have to custom order a USA-build, regardless of the model. I have no idea what the cost would be to, say, go through a local shop or someone like Al; as it comes down to the specs on the order form. You can make it as fancy or as plain as you (or your budget) like. I would hazard to say however, that the cost would be more in line with other American guitars now. If someone wants a professional grade instrument, it is going to be in the same price range as a professional level Guild, Martin, Taylor, Takamine, etc. Not that USA Ovations aren't worth the money, but as has been noted countless times before around here, we got spoiled by the low prices Ovations commanded recently. Remember a few years back when they began closing out the American models, and you could buy a new USA Elite for well under $1K? Well is it a big surprise that LOTS of people now believe that's all Ovations are worth? I know better, and so do most of us, but that doesn't make the modern pricing any easier to pallette. To me, they are worth it, but to the rest of the music world? Well.....a long time ago a new fan website was launched with the opening line: "Ovation Guitars really don't get the respect they deserve!" That statement is every bit as true now as it was then.
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | I understand the bean counters always argue for going overseas because it reduces your costs substantially. But how many Chinese model guitars does Ovation need? I guess the answer is "all of them". I work for a manufacturing company in OH. In strategic planning, we have been discussing that nearly all the jobs going overseas, are already there. That's because the Chinese dollar (yuan) is increasing in value. And Chinese labor costs are rising substantially. And shipping guitars 10,000 miles is getting more expensive. Several manufacturers are starting to re-shore work from China to the US. The bottom line is this. Are the overseas costs still lower than domestic costs?...yes. But I seriously doubt off-shoring all the Ovation models will be a successful long term strategy. Fender's move is really too late. And I'm glad I bought my American Ovations and Adamas models when I did. |
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Location: Massachusetts | Wouldn't it b nice if the dedicated Ovation workers did what the Harley Davidson workers did with the AMC Corporation. |
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Location: Texas | AMF?
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Location: Phoenix AZ | The problem is that over the last 5 or so years Ovation made numerous attempts to revive the USA guitars within a very competitive market and each and every time the buyng public spoke with their wallets and said WE ARE NOT INTERESTED
- The Traditional Series
- Shiny Bowl Reissues
- Adamas Custom Shop
- Glen Campbell Artist Reissues
- Glen Campbell Artist AGAIN with a different 12th fret inlay
- Viper VXT
- Adirondak Limited
Each and every one of these were great guitars and we all know that. But the public wasn't interested. You can't blame Ovation, KMC or Fender for not trying. Blame the public for not buying. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Standingovation - 2012-06-11 11:38 PM
The problem is that over the last 5 or so years Ovation made numerous attempts to revive the USA guitars within a very competitive market and each and every time the buyng public spoke with their wallets and said WE ARE NOT INTERESTED
- The Traditional Series
- Shiny Bowl Reissues
- Adamas Custom Shop
- Glen Campbell Artist Reissues
- Glen Campbell Artist AGAIN with a different 12th fret inlay
- Viper VXT
- Adirondak Limited
Each and every one of these were great guitars and we all know that. But the public wasn't interested. You can't blame Ovation, KMC or Fender for not trying. Blame the public for not buying.
This is the most succinct explanation I have seen on the topic to date. There is no point in building what no one (or only a few) are buying. I used to blame marketing.. but the VXT I thought was marketed well... however.. I'm guessing if you ask 100 guitar players, ones that have not been on this site, what they think of the Ovation VXT, they will have NO CLUE what you are talking about.
However, it's nice to know that we can still buy whatever model we want, if we choose to. |
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Location: Massachusetts | amosmoses - 2012-06-11 10:47 PM
AMF?
Yes, AMF. It's been a while since it occurred and I didn't check it out before hitting the mouse.
Yeah, I know the following has dwindled, and we're the last of a faithful bunch that know how good these guitars are. Maybe Fender can revive the interest in them by getting in the hands of popular artist like they once were, but that won't change my love for the Ovation guitar.
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | "Each and every one of these were great guitars and we all know that. But the public wasn't interested. You can't blame Ovation, KMC or Fender for not trying. Blame the public for not buying."
We will find out in the near future if the outsourced overseas strategy works for Fender. The public still has to buy them. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Here is a kinda strange thing, Javaman...
Lately (the last two years), More and more people come-up and talk Lovingly to me about Ovations.
How great they are/were... How everybody played them on Midnight Special and Don Kirschner's Rock Concert... (on TV during the 70's) And on stage at Live events.
How everybody knew someone who had one in college... How indestructible they are....
And how they all regret selling that Balladeer or Breadwinner that they had way-back-when.
And all these people are shocked when I tell them that Fender bought Ovation and moved manufacturing to Korea! Shocked... But not surprised.
I don't understand the Marketing problem. Yeah, Ovations don't get the Respect they Deserve...
But most people I talk to LIKE Ovations.
And the people that bad-mouth Ovations?
Kinda like the side-walk-commandos who criticize any motorcycle that isn't a Harley,
but meanwhile, they themselves are Walking.
I am also glad that I got some good Ovations while the gettin' was Good.
BTW-- (just a little edit) I have Never really liked Fender guitars...
Edited by Old Man Arthur 2012-06-12 7:52 AM
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Location: Texas | " that know how good these guitars are" Strictly speaking of the Ovation line, I think I am of the "were" crowd. Plugged in, all O's are fantastic...but acoustically, (jmo) the earlier Ovations seem to capture a much fuller resonance than what Ovation has produced in the past 10-15+ years. Granted, I have not played any of the collector series, but the 1537, in my experience, was the last decent acoustic guitar to come out of New Hartford. New, does not necessarily equate to better, in my limited Ovation world. Ok, bring on the stoning. |
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Location: Caribou, ME | Offer a 1111 Balladeer and a 1719 Custom Legend and expand the Custom Shop... an economy of scale. Crank out one Plain Jane and one blingy model. Make 8 or 10 Balladeers for every 1 Custom Legend. Double the manpower in the Custom Shop; it can be tiered... someone wants an engraved bridge and a sunburst top on a Balladeer, the new guy can do that. Someone wants a Koa top with an heart shaped soundhole, then that job goes to the upper crust in the shop. Keep it simple, not confusing to the public, rebuild the rep that Ovations are tough, reliable, and if you call the factory a human will answer. If someone has deep pockets the factory will build it. Partly Model T mentality I know.... that worked for a long time though.
But what do I know? |
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Location: Florence,SC | ...and to add salt to the wound, in the latest issue of Vintage Guitar magazine (page 80) a caption under a picture of Kevin Roland (of Dexys Midnight Runners) playing an Ovation, it says "...And here's another electric/acoustic Ovation (they were the Takamines of the 80's)." Takamines of the 80's????? |
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Location: Caribou, ME | That's like saying Tina Louise was the Katy Perry of 1965. |
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Location: Suisun City, Ca | amosmoses - 2012-06-12 7:47 AM " that know how good these guitars are" Strictly speaking of the Ovation line, I think I am of the "were" crowd. Plugged in, all O's are fantastic...but acoustically, (jmo) the earlier Ovations seem to capture a much fuller resonance than what Ovation has produced in the past 10-15+ years. Granted, I have not played any of the collector series, but the 1537, in my experience, was the last decent acoustic guitar to come out of New Hartford. New, does not necessarily equate to better, in my limited Ovation world. Ok, bring on the stoning. I have an 07C, very nice, (4) old ones incl 1537 and 1538 and the CE I bought new in'10. I know this may not be popular, but I think the new Custom Elite may be my best guitar and it is still opening up! She gets better and better every time I play it ajnd does everything I ask of it. After an adjustment( Thanks StoneBobbo) it's perfect. My 07C is about equal in my eyes with the 1537 and the 1538 12er is awesome, of course. Long winded, but the new O's are/were very good guitars and I have no regret for paying close to twice what I could have gotten her for a few months later on the 'bay... |
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Location: New Hartford CT | Nothing gets this place fired up more than the current state of affairs, where Ovation has become a custom shop (with a cell for Patch's guitars) and the balance of production has gone offshore. We've all seen the few outstanding examples of their recent (New Htfd) work, which is as good or better than it has ever been.
Keep in mind it was a FAMILY business and when that changed, everything changed. Passion and pride replaced by a corporate mentality driven by a bunch of bean counters. I dealt with a couple of them personally, as they handed me my hat. Once they came in it was out with the old and in with the new. A few years go by and suddenly it's over.
Never the less, I see some familiar faces in the article and am pleased they at least still have a job at the old factory. It would take someone with a lot of drive and deep pockets to bring production back home. Sales and marketing would be easy in comparison to finding a real go getter that could make things happen. Impossible? No, but not very likely.
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | George Frey - 2012-06-12 12:00 PM
Keep in mind it was a FAMILY business and when that changed, everything changed. Passion and pride replaced by a corporate mentality driven by a bunch of bean counters.
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Location: Massachusetts | Instead of calling 'em USA Ovations, let's just call "em NHO's. |
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Location: Utah | Standingovation - 2012-06-12 1:38 AM
The problem is that over the last 5 or so years Ovation made numerous attempts to revive the USA guitars within a very competitive market and each and every time the buyng public spoke with their wallets and said WE ARE NOT INTERESTED
- The Traditional Series
- Shiny Bowl Reissues
- Adamas Custom Shop
- Glen Campbell Artist Reissues
- Glen Campbell Artist AGAIN with a different 12th fret inlay
- Viper VXT
- Adirondak Limited
Each and every one of these were great guitars and we all know that. But the public wasn't interested. You can't blame Ovation, KMC or Fender for not trying. Blame the public for not buying.
I only partially buy that explanation. The bad economy was a case of bad timing on top of a declining demand.
But, how many times have we all complained on this forum about Ovations not being well represented in music shops? And I have never ever seen a new Adamas in a shop. From the mom/pop places to Guitar Center, about all that is regularly available, if anything at all, is a Celeb. Our GC would have one or two regular O's once in a while, but not for at least 5 years.
My daughter has sold at least a half dozen good new O's to fellow high school and college students. No, she doesn't work in a guitar store. She plays shows, she goes to shows, she jams in the student center with friends, and she hangs out playing whatever is hanging on the wall at various stores. All it takes if for young adults to see and hear an O or an A in person and they get the bug to own one. I have heard more than one young person say they are lusting for an Adamas after hearing Sara's Ute.
Edited by FlySig 2012-06-13 9:39 AM
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Location: Jet City | chicken egg... egg chicken...
It's a combination of all those things
I can say that I've seen brand new USA Os sit in a music store for 2 years before it finally gets marked down, below or at cost, then it moves. My 1778LX sat in the store for a good 18 months before I bought it for 1100 or something like that. They brought another one in and it sat for another 2 yrs at least. And they only had 1 or 2 USA models, so it's not like it was sitting there because there were so many to choose from.
Bottom line is the consumers weren't driven to the new USA models, and that's a marketing thing, be it lack of endorsers or lack of marketing in general, I dunno.
I do know that every artist and their brother played an Ovation back in the day, and that drove LOTS of sales. Now they have only a handful, and most of those folks are dated or obscure... or they're promoting Asian models.
One in particular that comes to mind is Dave Matthews. Hello marketing geniuses.. HE WAS ALREADY PLAYING OVATIONS!!! Did Ovation get him a deal? NO, Taylor stepped in and said play ours, so he did, and I know for a fact that's sold more than a few DMSMs and 914s.
So it is what it is now. The new Ovations are at the price point people seem to like them at. And honestly, I've been seeing some interesting models coming out with the AX or TX suffix. One in particular is a 1778 with a cedar top.
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Location: Massachusetts | Damon67, I've got to agree with you on this. The buying public wants a guitar that the stars play, and right now it's Gibson, Taylor and Takamine. If the Ovation people placed an Ovation in Kenny Chesney's hands it would start the ball rolling. |
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Location: Texas | Put Patches guitar in the hands of anyone in the top 10 and sales would pop, I am guessing. Of course, if it were put in my hands... I would be charged with burglary.
Edited by jay 2012-06-13 9:46 PM
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Location: Massachusetts | Put it in my hands, I promise to give it back, but really, it would look good on Taylor Swift |
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Location: Flahdaw | damon67 - 2012-06-13 3:28 PM
One in particular that comes to mind is Dave Matthews. Hello marketing geniuses.. HE WAS ALREADY PLAYING OVATIONS!!! Did Ovation get him a deal? NO, Taylor stepped in and said play ours, so he did
Wow, didn't know that! That may have been a slight snafu.... |
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Location: Nashville TN. | Standingovation - 2012-06-12 1:38 AM
The problem is that over the last 5 or so years Ovation made numerous attempts to revive the USA guitars within a very competitive market and each and every time the buyng public spoke with their wallets and said WE ARE NOT INTERESTED
- The Traditional Series
- Shiny Bowl Reissues
- Adamas Custom Shop
- Glen Campbell Artist Reissues
- Glen Campbell Artist AGAIN with a different 12th fret inlay
- Viper VXT
- Adirondak Limited
Each and every one of these were great guitars and we all know that. But the public wasn't interested. You can't blame Ovation, KMC or Fender for not trying. Blame the public for not buying.
The public never gets see them in stores....... the real problem. |
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Location: Nashville TN. | javaman - 2012-06-13 9:38 PM
Damon67, I've got to agree with you on this. The buying public wants a guitar that the stars play, and right now it's Gibson, Taylor and Takamine. If the Ovation people placed an Ovation in Kenny Chesney's hands it would start the ball rolling.
The USA guitars need to like a start up. They need a rep bring the instruments to performers. Hand it to then what do you think. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Get Damon to take the pictures for the Ovation website and they'd probably sell a few more. |
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