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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | My new Orange Flame 1778T came with very low action, and alot of buzz. I figgered that the strings were too light, so I changed the strings to EJ16's (.012 - .053) and that went away. The action is now as low as any electric guitar I've got.
BUT! I have just noticed that I have fret-buzz at the 12th fret, on the first thru fifth strings.
Also the 13th fret on the first and second strings.
(I don't usually play that high-up there anyway, but I was working on a "Van Halen - "A" Aeolian Guitar Lesson", and...)
I have read about similar problems, but I cannot find it after a lengthy search.
I have considered adding another thin shim, or an eighth of a twist of the truss rod. But before I will do anything I would like to hear from more experienced minds.
[BTW-- This is an eBay guitar, but there isn't even a pick-track on it. It was kinda dusty with a crud spot or two, but otherwise it is new! 598XXX serial number. I just think the seller threw some new ultra-light strings on for the sale.]
I am hoping someone has the answer. Or any answer. Or an encouraging word... |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | I have considered adding another thin shim, or an eighth of a twist of the truss rod. But before I will do anything I would like to hear from more experienced minds.
you have answered your own question |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Other than the possibilities mentioned, maybe a high fret or two?
I would go with a small truss rod adjustment first. Add a shim if that doesn't work. Then play with the TR again. You may have a fret check in the future if the TR adjust and shim don't solve the issue.
I'm sure you'll get more help shortly... |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Simple things first... I put in a shim first... (Hadn't read your post, "iffy")
Now I still have a buzz at the 12th on the G and D strings.
But it is clear everywhere else..
Awww crapski... it is past my bedtime! |
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Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Awww crapski... it is past my bedtime! (chuckle).. me too! Catch ya on the bright side... |
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December 2006
Posts: 6996
Location: Jet City | It sounds like truss rod adjustment is needed. loosen it a touch |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Truss rod. I'd keep the shims out, myself. The difference in climate between its old and new home can do things to the neck. My Viper was perfect when it was returned from the factory with new fret wires, but two weeks later, the neck had developed a backwards bow and you couldn't even play cowboy chords with it. I few turns at the truss rod to releive some stress made it perfect again, and the action remains very low, just to my liking. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Figures... :rolleyes: I had two choices...
Out of them, I chose the wrong one.
And it will be alot harder to get that shim out (with the strings still on) than it was to put it in.
Well, I gotta go to work. I will deal with this tonight. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Seems like most of you don't seem to understand how a truss-rod works. The rod controls how much or how little the neck will go into a bow under string tension. This is know as "neck relief" - Too little and the strings will buzz at the first few frets, too much and the guitar wil be difficult to play. Adjusting the rod will not correct fret rattle much beyond the 5th or 6th frets, and certainly will not have an effect at the 12th fret and above. If you want to keep the action really low in the higher positions (why, if you don't play there?) you'll need a professional fret-dress, or the quick fix is put in a shim or 2. Remember that shims work on a 2 to 1 principle. To change the action by 1mm at the 12th fret you need to insert or remove a 2mm shim at the bridge. |
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Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Stow, Ohio | First make sure the 12th and 13th frets are seated properly. I have seen many frets that were not seated and regardless of how many times you had them leveled and dressed they still buzzed. usually if the fret is not seated, re-seating it will take care of the buzz. after checking that, I would say you need to have the frets leveled and dress or at least the 12th and 13th dressed down. |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I'd add a thin shim. Let the guitar settle in overnight. Tweak the truss rod a little, at most 1/4 turn. Let it rest overnight. If that doesn't work, dial back the truss rod and take out the thin shim and put in a thick shim. Let it rest overnight. If that doesn't work, hit the truss rod up to 1/8 turn. try it, then 1/8 turn, then another 1/8. Keep doing this up to 4 of the thick shims. If none of these works, your guitar needs professional help. I base this on my prior experience, though Paul T is the master of this stuff and if he says if adding two shims doesn't do the trick, then ... |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'd go with the frets. Put a straight edge on them and see if it rocks at the 12th fret. If so, it has popped up. I've successfully tapped one down with a hammer and a little block of wood, but it pops up again. |
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June 2002
Posts: 1614
Location: Converse, Texas | Go with one more shim. |
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April 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Stow, Ohio | Do it right and take care of the frets.
Why spend money on good guitars if you are going to Mickey Mouse the repairs and adjustments? |
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March 2007
Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | 1) 12th fret is beyond range where neck can be adjusted by truss rod.
What is the action on 12th fret? and does it buzz on 13th when 12th is pressed or what? as it was mentioned before, i'd add one or two shims (if frets are dressed properly).
If 13th fret is higher than rest you have three options:
1) if it's a bit loose and it's a bit high but you see a free space under fret, you can use wooden hammer (through some material) and put it back to place
2) it it'sa high fret, and it's mounted properly, you can level this fret using a 2000 sand-paper (but previously, secure neck between 12th and 13th fret and between 13th and 14th by using some sort of adhesive tape.
3) neck has bump - i've noticed that on acoustic guitars area near place where neck joins the body (14th fret) is bump-prone. in that situation you can either send guitar to factory for a neck reset, or unmount frets in this area and sand bump down and then refret guitar. |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I'd go with the advice of others, not mine. |
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June 2002
Posts: 1614
Location: Converse, Texas | Lots of advice here. I'd call John or Kim at the factory. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I'm siding with LBJ and it's not just because we're both Polish. |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | LBJ has got it Right ,....and it´s `cause he`s Polish :)
Vic |
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November 2004
Posts: 1330
Location: ms | OK I thought you were playing somewhere called the 12th fret and got a buzz...must have been thinking of something else. |
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Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Stow, Ohio | Stop shimming, and back away from the truss rod.
get it fixed correctly!
If you learn to do this yourself, you will be amazed at how easy it really is, and how badly some guitar repair guys gouge your wallet for it.
get the Dan Erlewine instructional DVD's at Stewmac.com and invest in a few tools....fret files and such. or do as I did, and make some of your own tools....it really is pretty easy.
and if you own a lot of guitars, paying some one else to do the up keep can get very expensive...however if you are independently wealthy, disregard that last comment and send me your guitars to work on....I will only charge $30.O0 PER fret! |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Okay... I was right to put in the shim! :D So, There! :p
I searched, but I don't have anything the size of a "Fret Rocker", but I do have a small trustworthy straight-edge...
I ran it down the frets, and all are level except the 13th! :(
If I had a "Jaws" fret press from Stew-Mac, I could probably fix it quickly, but I cannot spare $211!
I don't usually play up there, but I would like to be able to... I am forever learning, and I was just learning Van Halen.
I have other guitars to play way up there... So I can probably live with it... Just wish it wasn't so... |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Y'all ain't gonna believe This...
I just pushed the 13th fret back down into position...
With my THUMB! :eek: (that probably ain't a good sign!)
I pushed very hard... (I didn't 'feel' it move, but it must've moved)
I will definitely need to get it looked at, but the buzzing stopped.
It may come back tomorrow, but... I will fix it soon. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by an4340:
Paul T is the master of this stuff and if he says if adding two shims doesn't do the trick, then ... Actually. I didn't say that at all. To clarify - when adjusting action at the bridge: A change (higher or lower) of 1mm at the 12th fret requires a 2mm change at the bridge. Therefore a 2mm change at the 12th requires 4mm change at the bridge. The number of shims in or out is irrelevant, their precise thickness is.
Given that the neck releif is adjusted correctly, shimming is a perfectly acceptable method of adjusting action, unless you need it really low, in which case specialist set-up may be required. Even then, with an acoustic guitar and a low action it's always gonna rattle if you hit it hard, so your playing style is also a factor. |
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Joined:
April 2007
Posts: 225
Location: Stow, Ohio | I can show you how to make a fret press.....cheap!
you just have to buy the fret cauls and holder from stewmac. I will even send you the other part that is required.
I made mine for less that $80.00, and I use it all the time.
I will post a picture of my homemade fret press after I get off of work today. |
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Buzz at the Twelfth Fret - What to Do...