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Posts: 494
Location: Location Location Location | Sounds so innocent..rolls right off the tongue..could have come from a catalog, you see it in Ebay listings. Here, have a 'signature ovation crack.' What the hell are they?? Who says they're signature?? I've had quite a few Ovations, and no one ever signed one of mine with a 'signature ovation crack'. Why not say surface top challenged?
Ok, I'm done. :rolleyes: |
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November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | I don't know about signiture cracks but for some reason most of the older ovations I see have surface cracks in the finish. I am speaking from limited experience here though. Perhaps is has something to do with the composit back. With a standard wood guitar I imagine the wood shrinks and swells with the humidity and heat. But the entire guitar is suseptable to this whereas an ovations bowl will remain constant while the top expands and contracts causing stress in the top. Something has to give. Just a thought with absolutly no proof or verification.. |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Older Ovations have a high tendency to get cracks in the finish. That's just the way it is. |
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Posts: 1817
Location: Minden, Nebraska | There is plenty of discussion of finish cracks in the archives, because they are indeed all too common. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | The bowl is stable. The older thicker finished top 'breathes' (contract/expand due to temp and humidity changes). Ergo, finish 'checking' (my favorite term for said condition).
BTW, probably a third of my older 'O's have at least one 'check', but NO wood cracks nor signatures. ;) |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | I just bought a used 3 year old 1778 LX with an undisclosed 3" long surface/finish crack directly under the high E string beginning at the neck and running towards the bridge. It's a shame that a guitar in this price range, this young, should have this issue. And, since I am now the second owner the warranty is conveniently voided. So I am now stuck with the problem. This my second Ovation (the last some 25 years ago) and they both had surface cracking issues. You think that over that span of time things would have improved. Oh well..live and learn I guess. |
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Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | There was a significant change. The finish is much thinner now, which should reduce the likelihood of cracks.
Nervous, if the finish crack wasn't disclosed, why didn't you return it? The original owner should have dealt with it under warranty.
I'm looking at on Ovation Patriot right now that has 2 finish cracks radiating out of the bridge bolts. Just like the cracks on my Custom Balladeer. |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Old truisms are hard to kill but it the "Ovation Crack Syndrome" is has long been cured. The early ones.. (maybe up til the early 80's??) had a really think finish. Very, very durable... but subject to cosmetic cracks. Lately... (maybe the last 10 or 15 years??) the finishes have gotten to be very thin.
I would tend to beleive that in an LX model a "finish crack", IF that's what it is, is more about an accident or abuse than anything else. Especially in the area described. |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Nervous, if the finish crack wasn't disclosed, why didn't you return it? The original owner should have dealt with it under warranty.
Believe me I tried and they flat denied any knowledge that it was ever there. Blamed the shipper, etc. Your point is exactly the one I made to them but I am unsure if they were the original owner. I made some other offers as well but they were having none. I even offered to return ship to them, acros teh country, at my expense, FWIW I asked specifically before bidding if there were any finish issues and was told no. They got accusatory, impugned my motives for buying, etc. and at this point communications are strained to the point where there is no more. I could still use my e-bay complaint option but there's a chance they might be telling the truth because of the cracks placement it could be missed. In a their word against mine I am not so sure I would win. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Actually Gibson is also famous for Finish cracks also.
But that is a sign of character...
I have owned some Really Nice sounding Ovations with finish cracks, and Real Cracks too... |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey Nervous...Welcome! :cool:
Since evilBay is under annoying new management they will usually side with the buyer in any complaint. If the guitar was damaged during shipping, it is STILL the seller's responsibility.
PM Send. |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by nervous:
I just bought a used 3 year old 1778 LX with an undisclosed 3" long surface/finish crack directly under the high E string beginning at the neck and running towards the bridge. Someone mentioned to me that posting a couple pics might elicit some comments from those far more in the know that I.
 " target="_blank" title="http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2141808670046529111yWLIdt">">http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2141808670046529111yWLIdt[/... |
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Location: Utica, NY | 
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | 
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Location: Utica, NY | Uh, thanks. I haven't quite figured out the whole picture insert thing yet...sorry |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Nasty looking crack. Does it go all the way up to the top of the soundboard under the fretboard? Does it look that bad in person? |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
Does it go all the way up to the top of the soundboard under the fretboard? Does it look that bad in person? After taking a closer look inside it does not appear as though the crak is actually through the soundboard. Could be just the finish. Because of it's position under the high E it could easily be seen as a shadow. I would like to figure out a way to stop its progres though so that it would not get any longer. Not sure how that would be accomplished. |
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Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | This photo clearly shows a change in the surface. That suggests to me it will continue to grow as the surface is not level and may be trying to balance some pressure somewhere. Are all the bracings intact?
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | I'll check the bracing when I get home but let me ask this. Could this have been caused by being shipped with the strings at full tension? It came from California to NY via UPS so what effect could changing temp and altitude have ona guitar if the strings had not been loosened prior to shipping? Does that even matter or is that an old wives tale? Thanks. |
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Ovation ships it's guitars with strings at Full Tension....
That crack could have happened due to a sudden temperature change. All it takes is some impatient person to be in a hurry and open a cold guitar case in a Warm house. Or someone taking a Hot guitar outta the car and bringing it into Cool air-conditioned house and popping the case open. It looks like a finish-only crack to me, given the curve at the end...
And Like I Said.... If you feel that you got burnt, file an evilBay SNAD claim, you will win. |
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | To respond to the question of bracing it all looks and feels very solid. Again, it's only three years old so it should but I know that you never know. here's what the inside looks like where the crack should be if it had gone all the way through:
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
[QB] It looks like a finish-only crack to me, given the curve at the end...
I agree that it's most likely finish only but now the question is how to adress that? What's teh method or technique? Is it the super glue and polish route? How do I knock the ridge along the crack down? Do I open it up more? Is there a way to just stem the progress? Thanks |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Maybe there IS some way to repair that by filling it with really thin cyano-crazy glue...
But you have to get the crack cleaned-out.
The reason why those cracks show is cuz they get crud in them. (Or cuz the light is right)
You could go to StewMac and search for advice.
They also sell many grades of cyano glue and other finishing stuff...
Since you obviously do not want to get your money back, I guess that you got an alright deal.
Hear is my Next advice... Here is what I would do...
Put the strings back on it and Play It.
And quit looking at the crack. :cool:
[Either that, or file a SNAD complaint, one or the other... While you are waiting time is a-wasting] |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | There is a lot of information in the FAQ's and archive. This is from the FAQ's:
Q: I bought/inherited/found an old Ovation with what everybody says is a "typical" crack in the top finish. Are Ovations especially prone to such cracks, and is there anything I can do about it?
A: As far as finish cracks being "typical" for Ovations, that's not necessarily true. You'll hear speculation from people who've never so much as picked up an Ovation, much less owned one, that the synthetic bowl material doesn't let the wood top expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity. That is, pardon the expression, a crock of doo-doo. With a traditional all-wood guitar, the sides are almost always made from a completely different wood than the top, and so the top and sides will expand and contract at greatly different rates, without any excessive cracking problems. In fact, all-wood guitars of the same age as a given Ovation may be just as likely to have a finish crack.
Ovation uses a catalyzed polyester for a thick and hard top finish. Note that in the last 10-15 years the factory started using a thinner finish. Regardless of how old your Ovation is, you can seal a finish crack and in some cases eliminate the crack completely with the following procedure. This doesn't apply to Ovation solid body guitars, though, nor should you try this on a guitar with a lacquer finish. Before you attempt a finish repair, examine the crack carefully and make sure it is only in the finish, and not a "through" crack into the wood itself. A wood crack requires more skill to repair and may involve fixing or replacing the braces. Unless you have experience in luthiery such repairs are probably best left to a pro (unless you have a "project" guitar that you want to learn on).
The following technique is provided for informational purposes only and likely voids the warrantee of your guitar. It is always best to take a damaged instrument to an Authorized Ovation dealer.
Old cracks will have dirt and other matrial in the crack - use a needle or an old dental pick to scribe out the crack and remove the gunk.You can use CyA (cyanoacrylate) or water soluble glue to fill the crack and build up to the surface. The process is to fill, build up, sand, fill, sand, and buff. You can use sanding pads from Stewart-MacDonald (available in 1,500-12,000 grit - although start with 3,000), CyA (StewMac has 4 types), and Swirl Remover #4. Swirl Remover #4 also removes any pick scratches, etc. Use a foam buffer that attaches to a standard drill for final buffing. CyA spillage can be wiped off of the guitar's surface with CyA thinner - it won't damage the finish or dull the surface. You can use acrylic paint to try to match the top finish - especially on a darker finish. The nice part about this is you can mix the paint on the top next to the crack until you have a good match; then wipe the excess off. Even if you can't eliminate the crack, you might simulate the grain and help hide the crack. Again, older cracks are harder to completely eliminate but you can make them hard to see.
(Thanks to Ovation FanClub™ member Tony Calman) |
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Since you obviously do not want to get your money back, I guess that you got an alright deal.
It's not so much a matter of 'wanting' to get my money back it's how hard I want to push someone that might be telling me the truth. I am still mulling that. But, for all I can find (for the condition I thought I was getting I think I did OK because I can't find another 1778LX even close. As I was once told: 'It's not the deal you got but the deal you think you got'.
But, finding the crack altered my level of 'value' which I what all this is about. That and future resale. I will have to be honest with any future description. How much less is the guitar worth with this blemish than without? $100.00, $200?
If I do roll over then I will certainly take your advice wholeheartedly. |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Depends on how long you wait to sell it...
If it is a crack in a 3 year-old guitar, or a 30 year-old guitar... :p
[I have sold alot of guitars with cracks in them] |
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October 2005
Posts: 4044
Location: Utah | Nervous, my opinion is that you have a good cause for return and filing a complaint with eBay/PayPal. The item arrived substantially not as advertised.
It may have happened in shipment, which is my guess on such a new instrument. The new finishes are not known for cracking. I bet the top got stressed by the box tossing gorillas.
But it doesn't matter, really. Either the seller knew it was cracked and lies about it, or the seller did not properly pack it for shipping, or the shipping company damaged it. In all of those situations it is the seller who is responsible. If UPS/Fedex/USPS damaged it, the claim is filed by the shipper, not the receiver.
IMO, I would not buy a 3 yr old guitar with a crack like that. The reduction in $ value to me would be several hundred dollars. In an older Ovation, the difference is probably $100 to me, because I know that cracks are normal and that even if it isn't cracked yet it could easily get a crack while I own it.
So, I think you are in a position of leverage with the seller. He can file a claim with UPS/Fedex/USPS if he believes he shipped a mint guitar. Does he have pictures before that show no crack? Does he have pictures of the packing process? Did he pay for insurance?
The only fly in the ointment would be if he offered insurance to you and you declined it.
If the seller is honest, it sucks but that is one of the risks of selling on eBay and shipping. And why I haven't resorted to selling guitars on eBay. |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Well, in a short and painless E-Bay/Paypal dspute over this issue I have been awarded a full refund pending the items return to it's original seller. Thanks to all who provided the needed info and impetus (aka 'kick in the pants')to proceed. So, off it goes and off I go to shop for a replacement. So many choices though...
So glad I found the group and appreciate the open and honest discussions. |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | And to hopefully close this chapter the guitar was delivered to it's original owner today and Paypal has already issued a full refund. I am out shipping but that's life. Balance has returned to my universe. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | So whatcha gonna get to replace it? |
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November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | How about this one, just a few 'signiture cracks, waves, bows, and buldges. Have you ever seen one like this?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/89-Ovation-1769-Custom-Legend-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ250431481332QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4ee125f4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkp arms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 |
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Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
So whatcha gonna get to replace it? Already got an awesome burgundy 2077LX from a fellow lister. |
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July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | I had a similure thing on my pacemaker.
The Mothership filled and buffed it out. |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | QUESTION: I know bridges come loose, but what can happen with cracks along the grain? Do some Ovations just "bust open"? I'm watching a few serious cracks ALONG the bracing on my old 1117 Legend. |
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Signature Ovation Cracks