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Location: NJ | If you want one order call me NOW for existing inventory.
more details as they come in. |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | If interested in a USA made elite T standard balladeer or standard elite or Ultra contact me (or your dealer of choice) asap. Once current inventory is gone these will now be made in Korea.
More details as they develop. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Hmmmm.
I should think about this issue but I don't have the energy right now. |
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January 2005
Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Interesting to re-read the Fender-KMC press release from last fall ... "We Plan No Significant Changes"
The troubling thing is that we'll never know if they are 90% done with "not making changes" or are they 10% done.
On the bright side it might help the lower end models if they can drive down the mfg costs, and as a residual it might help to escalate the value and prestige of the remaining USA models.
Dave |
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Location: south east Michigan | Used to be that the inlayed eppys would set apart the USA models. That didn't last very long. |
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Posts: 25
| Hi,
Pardon my ignorance but Just lower end USA models going to China?
So Elite T, standard balladeer, and standard elite and Ultra?
Legend and above staying?
Just wondering.
I really like my 2007 BCS but only ovation I have the rest are tacoma's...supposedly these and Guild coming to New Hartford...
Who nows what Fender is up to.
Thanks in advance
Will |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | wills
where did you read china in my post?
yes the rest will stay in the USA |
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March 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Pennsylvania | Just being here for a few days I get the impression that I'm not the only person that ever notices this fact: Most regular music shops just carry Korean made Ovation lower end guitars. One or two things may happen with Korean production, a price reduction and these models being added to the catalog these music stores order from AND allowing for the CT USA Ovation factory to spend more time on higher end guitar work.
I hope I make sense. What I mean is that by moving a few models to off-shore production the factory is allowing the USA workers more time to concentrate on the higher end models.
Long story short it isn't good that 90% of music stores I go into don't have Ovation models above the low end guitars (many have no Ovations at all).
Ovation needs to make it so that the average person walking into the guitar shop in anywhere, North America can pick up an Ovation that can compare to the myriad of other Acoustic/Electrics in the 500-900 dollar range. It seems that 1000 dollars may be the magical number right now (unless you get a deal) for guitars to start having the (sorry, going to use some non-Ovation terms here) having real wood, etc.. Anything over 1000 seems to be that "next step." The 500-900 dollar range seems to have WAY nicer features and better electronics over the low end market. Below 500 dollars is the "I'm going to take it to college" price range. We all played those bellow 500 dollar guitars. At some point we stepped up, or those that had the loot may have started in the "step up level." Ovation needs to have guitars hanging in the local music stores for the "step up" customer.
It's sad that the average person today is getting stuck with all around laminate wood guitars. If he buys a 500-750 dollar guitar of said wood box guitar he's probably getting the low end features and is paying for the electronics.
It he really wants to get something that he can appreciate he's looking down the barrel of $1000 dollars.
Hence, more presence of Ovations in the 500-999 price range. They'll have better necks, tuners, tops, finishes and electronics. They won't be 300 dollar guitars with 150-200 tacked on for the addition of electronics without wood/construction ugrades (or a 500 dollar guitar with 150-200 tacked on for electronics and no upgrades in wood, construction or tuners/neck). |
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Posts: 25
| Hi,
I did not read china, I had heard from a friend this was happening, I may have gotten china in my brain.
Thanks for reply on which models will be still usa.
Will |
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October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | Originally posted by alleghenymountains:
Just being here for a few days I get the impression that I'm not the only person that ever notices this fact: Most regular music shops just carry Korean made Ovation lower end guitars. One or two things may happen with Korean production, a price reduction and these models being added to the catalog these music stores order from AND allowing for the CT USA Ovation factory to spend more time on higher end guitar work. That seems logical, and sounds like a winning idea from management.
The only thing that strikes me is that Ovations are already a superior value in the $599 to $999 price range. Making an Elite T a little bit cheaper isn't really going to, by itself, generate more sales. Ovation might actually do better to keep the price the same and pocket the added profit. It wouldn't surprise me if some customers pass over Ovations because: A) they've played a low low end laminate top Applause years ago, and B) they assume that an under-$1000 Ovation cannot be as good as an over-$1000 wood box guitar from the competition.
My hope is that, as you said, this represents an opportunity for Ovation to make (and sell) even more of the higher end guitars, while getting more inventory onto the sales floors of guitar stores. |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by alleghenymountains:
... If he really wants to get something that he can appreciate he's looking down the barrel of $1000 dollars.
I got a Norman B 20(6) new on sale for $320 Cdn.
It has a spruce top and cherrywood back/sides. It sounds nice, the neck is good and I use it a lot.
I bought it about 6 years ago as a second guitar to take the load off my Ovation and it has held up very well in that capacity.
http://www.normanguitars.com/modelb20.htm
Here's a recent picture of the factory and the workers from the afternoon shift; as you can see not much has changed there in the last 200 years..lol
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Posts: 347
Location: Reno, NV | April Fools?? ...please say its so. |
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February 2008
Posts: 747
| I tried a couple of Applause guitars but I didn't like them; also, the price seemed a bit high and I was just looking for a second guitar.
If I was looking for a starter guitar now I'd probably pick up an older used Ovation as the they are so under priced for what they are. |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by Yak:
April Fools?? ...please say its so. No, that's a recent picture of the factory; I think all those people are related to each other as well..lol |
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December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | Originally posted by Joe Rotax:
I tried a couple of Applause guitars but I didn't like them; also, the price seemed a bit high and I was just looking for a second guitar.
If I was looking for a starter guitar now I'd probably pick up an older used Ovation as the they are so under priced for what they are. not for long. How much you wanna bet prices start going up on the USA stuff? |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by alpep:
not for long. How much you wanna bet prices start going up on the USA stuff? [/QB]
I hope so.
I have a mint 1974 1621-4 and even though it's not for sale I was kinda surprised to find that it isn't worth much in the big bad world.
Something like mine would be a nice first guitar for not too much money. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by FlySig:
The only thing that strikes me is that Ovations are already a superior value in the $599 to $999 price range. Making an Elite T a little bit cheaper isn't really going to, by itself, generate more sales. Ovation might actually do better to keep the price the same and pocket the added profit.
I'm not an economist, but my limited understanding of the current exchange rate of the USD is that the American Dollar is worth NADA!
Manufacturing oversea will NOT me a less expensive guitar for Americans.
This is three years of the USD against the Chinese Yuan :(
And this is the USD against the Korean whatever-they've-got...
Remember the US sponsors South Korea...
So that little upsurge in the last month is probably due to our government begging them for a currency adjustment.
Or cuz Fender is opening another facility... :p |
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Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Arthur , You Are So Right !!!...
..paying less for Imported goods , more for Domestic , will not boost national economy , ( counts for any / every country ) , but fear not old friend , the drums of doom are rolling overhere too , soon we all will chew on each other`s shoe -soles for lunch..
Vic
..an empty wallet is an empty wallet....pass the salt ,please.... |
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Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Hopefully something will happen to stop the decline of the dollar ...
As to making the lower range overseas, it can be good or bad ... have to wait and see ... personally, in light or what's going on with the dollar it seems wrong. It's frurstating because fender is not public traded and you can't be an owner and vote at shareholder meetings. |
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Posts: 234
Location: Phoenix, AZ | Originally posted by alpep:
not for long. How much you wanna bet prices start going up on the USA stuff? Historically, after a FMIC purchase or distribution arrangement, prices do rise.
I am beginning to get a stomach ache every time I come here. |
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Posts: 665
Location: Tychy, Poland | yeah, i don't think lower end ovations will get cheaper when production will be moved to korea. I think fender wants to build something more profitable in CT factory.
And about exchange rate: in long term it's really good for your economy.
We, in Poland, have problem which went for the other direction - Zloty is getting stronger and stronger, and while prices of imported goods relatievely drops, it's harder for our companies to export something...anything.
3 years ago dollar to zloty exchange rate was on level of 3.7 : 1, now it's 2.2 :1
Euro was on 4.4:1, now it's 3.5: 1
but...
it's nice to grab a good guitar from US for half of it's price in Poland. |
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Posts: 1374
| Al, does this include the new contour bowl lx balladeers? just saw one of those with an op pro and was really nice..
thanks,
Glenn |
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Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | my understanding is that all balladeers will be made in korea |
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Posts: 22
Location: Pennsylvania | Thought no.1098
Perhaps
A) making more models in Southeast Asia means more product for the Asian market as well? In theory when you have over 1 billion people nearby with growing wallets wouldn't you want to get into that market?
B) move lower end models out of the CT shop--- the owners aren't going to let the worker have less, well, work! Like others have said above perhaps new product lines, ideas, etc... will be made and not necessarily with the Ovation/Adamas name on the headstock. They bought a shop with skilled craftsman, they will want to maximize profit. Time will tell what happens.
Maybe they are giving up on all but the high end for a niche market Ovation guitars built here. They can get the others built in Korea for much less and most likely still get similar quality.
They can use the skill of the craftsman in CT to make more profitable lines of guitars. Corporations don't care about people, they care about money.
I'm just glad I got my Balladeer LX before it was made abroad. Right now it seems the USA Ovations that will be made in CT in the future will be out of my price range for the foreseeable future.. I'm not afraid to admit that I'm not stacked with cash and I refuse to buy on credit. |
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Location: Queens, NY | I keep hoping this is another April Fool's joke, but I guess not!
So the Balladeer, the one with the 30 plus years of history, will now be made in Korea! So much for the LX upgrade helping to differentiate between USA and Korean Ovations.
I think one thing the Fender folks are missing is that a main reason the Balladeer was such a big seller for Ovation was BECAUSE it was made in the USA! They might as well just call it a Super Celebrity or an Ultra Deluxe now. |
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Location: big island | i've been inundated with a rash of email ads from guitar sellers about their ovation blow-out sales. seems all the real deals are on the models getting ready for import status. |
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Posts: 22
Location: Pennsylvania | out of ignorance, what ones won't be made in the USA now? The super duper expensive ones and the Adamii?
Sounds like my first Ovation may be my last. And it isn't even built that great, even for USA. Sad to think what'll happen when they let underpaid 14 year old kids to build them in Korea.
Hence I may indeed just return mine and get my money back and buy a guitar that is finished correctly and built decently. With the sloppy wood cut on the soundhole, bad painting, sloppy lines on the white finish strip, I think I deserve a better built guitar. |
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Posts: 4903
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alleghenymountains:
... Hence I may indeed just return mine and get my money back ... Fortunately there are a lot of good choices out there. You might want to check out Takamine. They build some very nice stuff for good prices.
Dave |
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Posts: 22
Location: Pennsylvania | True, Takamine makes some nice guitars. I do really really like the lightweight-ness and the shallow bowl construction of the Ovation 1861 lx though.
I'm just disappointed in some of the workmanship in the guitar. Now an Elite series with the cherry cherry burst and a shallow bowl might.......
Maybe I'm uber picky, but I do have my critiques of this guitar.
--- I know Takamines are made in Japan. However the difference is they have been making guitars in Japan for years and the workers in Japan get worker's rights and labour rights and a fair salary.
Something that doesn't exist in South Korea, China.. |
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Location: ranson,wva | my advice would be a used older us made ovation...jas' |
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February 2008
Posts: 747
| Originally posted by alleghenymountains:
Maybe I'm uber picky, but I do have my critiques of this guitar.
I'm not really up on the market but I think that if I was considering another Ovation I'd be looking for a good US built used one. |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by Jason_S:
my advice would be a used older us made ovation...jas' lol, I didn't see your post until after I submitted mine; but yeah, a used older one for sure. |
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Location: ranson,wva | best shallow bowl i owned was a 1982-83 1567 legend ssb...biggest sounding woodtop ssb ive ever had the pleasure of "attemtping" to play lol
it now resides in canada and ive not found another but it was a great sounding guitar for $150.00 |
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Posts: 4619
Location: SoCal | Had a Balladeer 4861 which was made in Korea...bought and sold for less due to non-USA guitar but it was a very nice guitar (especially for the price). We are talking about the Balladeer, assume that will also mean the Standard Elite...doubt that the quality will suffer unless they stop the solid wood top.
A problem that we have had but important to say...the real problem will be Celebrities and former USA guitars if they maintain the Ovation logo and headstock. Doubt if you will see a "real" USA Ovation product in a guitar store...heck, almost impossible now to find a Custom Legend, Custom Elite, or Adamas in a store. Why should a guitar store hold one in inventory that competes with their wood boxes when they sell the heck out of the $299-399 Celebs?
Most guitarists will not lay down the high $'s without playing the guitar 1st. Their experience justifies the caution...not uncommon to play four or five of same model guitars until you find the one to buy. If not available to play, why order with a four to six month delay?
I was in a GC on a Sunday morning (10:45am-11:30) - not busy as it would be Saturday afternoon. Saw 5-6 Celebs rung up at the register in 45 minutes. Couple of them at $299.
This board, the OFC, is (indirectly) the primary marketing source for the upper nylon, Custom Elite, Custom Legend, and Adamas lines. Even with Fender marketing, there is no marketing, artist relations, or other effort to push the upper level of Ovation wood tops. I see no difference with the Adamas line. Even if someone doesn't read the OFC posts, a search on the internet will pull up the OFC comments.
The result, special order only, eventual phase out of the "Custom" wood top line, possibly even textured top Adamas. |
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Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Even with Fender marketing, there is no marketing, artist relations, or other effort to push the upper level of Ovation wood tops. Maybe to early to tell.
I really don't like the way your scenerio ends and hope it does not come true. |
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Location: Hicksville, NY | My very first Ovation guitar was a shallow bowl, U.S. made, 1861 standard balladeer. True it had its limitations - unplugged - but a completely different story once plugged in for the Op 24+ preamp can do so many wonders with it. I was quite pleased with mine, and had no plans of parting with it, until ...
... the opportunity to own a deep-bowl custom legend came into sight :)
I started with only one Ovation, I guess that's the way it will be for quite some time. |
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Location: SoCal | re: I really don't like the way your scenerio ends and hope it does not come true.
I don't like it either - hope I am wrong but the internet has changed the industry...we'ce talked about mom & pop stores, most of the OFC'ers have bought from Al or an internet store, often sight unseem. When is the last time someone went into a store and was able to play an Adamas textured top 6 and 12-str, a Custom Legend 6 and 12-str, and a Custom Elite 6 and 12-str ALL in the same visit?? Same store, same time. My money is that no one has in at least the last five years. Heck, find one in a store and we talk about it on the OFC. Will Fender get artists to start playing Ovation...might be able to but I'm not holding my breath. Will Guitar Centers order hundreds of Custom Elites and Custom Legends at NAMM?
Negative about the product, more positive that the staff of the factory may be able to continue making quality guitars, whatever the headstock says. |
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Posts: 747
| "Most guitarists will not lay down the high $'s without playing the guitar 1st. Their experience justifies the caution...not uncommon to play four or five of same model guitars until you find the one to buy. If not available to play, why order with a four to six month delay?"
Bottom line right there.
When I was looking for a LP back in the 70s I tried lots of new and used ones most of which were set up pretty good but I didn't like any of them. One day my friend and I went into a music shop in a small town and I pulled down this ugly red/yellow sunburst LP and started playing; my friend says to me "that's the one you should buy" and he was right. |
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USA lower end ovations