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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | Can you guys help by telling me where to look, or just by the pictures what model this is?
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| Welcome lue42. The pictured guitar is a Pac rim-made super-shallow bowl Celebrity. If it's older than a couple of years it's likely Korean, if new may be Korean or Chinese. There should be a label inside visible thru the bass-side sound holes that identifies the model number.
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| A slight bit of digging yields this on the Ovation site . In all likelihood it's a CC48 as that's the only super-shallow bowl Celebrity listed. I'm going by the color of the case lining in saying it's a super-shallow bowl, and assuming that's the right case for it. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | What are the distinguishing features that tell you it is a celebrity... I just bought this on a guys word that it is an Ovation Elite Standard... and he is not budging that it is not... |
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Location: SoCal | The end of the fingerboard screams Celeb! Take a look at the Ovation website that g8r posted as a link. Look at the guitars. Almost all the Celebs have that fingerboard. Elites are different..... |
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| Moody's absolutely right - the end of the fingerboard is the defining giveaway. Those are exclusive to Celebrity models. Here are two of my Elites - notice the shape of the fretboard end:
If there's no label pasted in the bowl & visible thru the bass-side soundholes I would start to suspect that the seller is trying to run a scam, knowing full well that it's not an Elite. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The two bridge bolts are another hint, but the end of the fretboard is the key to it being a Celebrity. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | For comparison, here is my CC257 - Celeb Dlx
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | It may be a scam, but I don't think it is this seller... it was the one that sold it to him. Unfortunately, he thinks it is an elite, but it is obviously not one. I really hope he is willing to take it back. He has a lot of others interested, and if they believe it is a true elite, best of luck... however... I don't think it is.
Here I am, living on a strict budget due to a million expenses with my autistic kid, and finally find a dream Ovation that I have always wanted. My wife and I agree that we can budget it in and look what happens.
Worst case... is a Celebrity CC257 (which it looks exactly like) worth anything around $400 (with the hard case)? |
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| The difference between a CS257, which is a super-shallow bowl that's no longer made, and a CC48 are the fret markers on the 12th fret. The CC48 has dots on the the 12th fret while the CS257 has diamonds.
Current retail on a CC48 is about $600, so I'd think a new one would go for ~$500 at someplace like Guitar Center. The CS247 when new probably had a street price of ~$600, so $300-400 wouldn't be out of line if it's in mint condition.
Don't feel badly, 'tho. If this guitar feels and sounds great to you then that's all that matters. Celebs are good guitars and a great value for the money. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | It has the two diamonds with the circle in the middle, so it is probably a 257. Yeah, I am happy with it... it is still a good deal... not as good a deal, but still not too bad a buy. |
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Location: Utah | Perhaps the seller would refund you $100 for the error in identification? That would make it a better buy for you, if you like the guitar enough to keep it. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | Nope... seller absolutely refuses to believe that it is not an Elite... for some unknown reason, that is the end of it. He is actually accusing me of having cold feet on the purchase and making up lies to get out of the sale.
Regardless... it is a great guitar and I am happy to have it. I make have paid pretty much what it is worth, maybe a little bit more, but I don't think in the end that I got ripped off.
I am going to try to sell it though to see if I can get the money, or almost all of it back. I notice that CS257's are going for around $400 around here.
Thanks everyone.
Lesson learned... if it is too good to be true... I jumped on the 'deal' since there were a line up of emails behind mine and didn't research it enough. Oh well. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Just tell him to give you your money back...
Tell him this is an Old Elite... And the blue one is a Celebrity...
 
See bridge, See fretboard.
Because of where the sticker is located, they don't just fall-off on there own.
Someone took it out to be deceptive.
If he lives near you, leave a note on the front seat of his car... "I was inside your car!"
Then ask for you money back again...
[Leave another note taped to his engine and under his gas cap lid! :eek: :p ] |
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Location: Indiana | The Celebrity also doesn't have the original patented pickup or the laminated 5 piece neck. |
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Location: Vernon CT | What ever happened to looking at the label inside the guitar??? Did I miss something? Was the label removed?? It should say Celebrity right on the thing!!! I don't think lue42 ever said the label was missing. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | In the pic shown above, the holes are dark... too dark for me, almost like they were edited black to hide the label. Its either that or the label was removed. Mine you can clearly see the label.
Lue, return the guitar, get a full refund. It is a Celebrity, not an Elite. Notify ebay that the seller misrepresented the item. Thats a no-no. The seller is either clueless or a scammer. You can find a better guitar, here, on ebay, or on craigslist. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by auriemma:
In the pic shown above, the holes are dark... too dark for me, almost like they were edited black to hide the label. Its either that or the label was removed. Mine you can clearly see the label.
Those are stock Ovation website photos and yes they always photoshop out the label. It's ovations own way of admitting how ugly it is to see the label through the soundhole. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Ovation labels...
Don't get me started.
I will say that they are better now than they were before.
lue42... I hope it works out for you.
Maybe you could send the seller a link to this thread???
Then again... he might not want to see it. |
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| Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Those are stock Ovation website photos and yes they always photoshop out the label. Toby, I think Joe was referring to the picture of the actual guitar, way up at the top of this thread. There's no label visible where there clearly should be one. That's why I said I'd start to suspect a deliberate misrepresentation if the label was missing.
lue42, if you bought this guitar in a private sale you don't have much recourse if the seller refuses to work with you - and assuming you want to work something out. If you bought it on eBay, and especially if you paid with PayPal, you can file a complaint as "Item significantly not as described." In the complaint you can cite the URL for this thread, as well as pictures and descriptions from Ovation's official website, as proof that the guitar was misrepresented. You'd also want to include any written communications with the seller, particularly ones where the seller refuses to acknowledge a mistake. I and others have had positive results with this process.
Of course, as I said, if you're happy with the guitar then that's the only important thing. If so, enjoy it. And stick around, this is a good group of people - tho we might talk you into spending more money ;) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Oh THAT label. Yeah, either removed or photoshopped. either way looks better without it. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | Unfortunately, it was a private sale, in person and not via Ebay.
I have emailed this link to the seller, and he refuses to acknowledge it.
The photo above (and the other photo's listed by my father in the "blog" area of this site are not edited- they are ones my father took, not the seller.
Here is what I think... the seller bought the guitar thinking it was a 6868 because that is what he was told. He sold it still believing it was a 6868. Now, even with all the evidence, he refuses to take it back. Next to doing small claims court, I am out of luck on this one. It is a lesson learned, buyer beware situation. Regardless of how unethical this seller is, part of the blame falls in my hands.
So, I now own a CS257, which I paid $400 for. It is in very good condition and I like it. It is more than I should have paid, but not enough to consider myself "getting ripped off".
I am going to try to resell it, listed for what it actually is for as close to $400 as I can get. I notice other CS257's in my area have gone for around that. Even if I lose a little money, I am okay with it. If I can't sell it, or would end up losing too much money, I will still be happy with it.
Thank you again for all your help... unfortunately, that is all there is to this story. As far as I am concerned, the seller is an unethical liar, and by not taking it back he is saying a lot about the type of person he is. Whether he meant to misrepresent it or not, he should take it back. I do believe in karma, and he will get his just dues in time.
I did have my eye on another Ovation listed on Ebay before this one came along. There has been a repair on the bridge, but it seems like a good deal if I could get it for near Starting bid (and local pickup). However... with all this, I am tainted on buying another guitar at the moment.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190300344489&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.ca%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D190300344489%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categorie s%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
I currently own:
Schecter S-1 30th Anniversary (and little 15w amp)
Yamaha G55-a classical
Fender DG-16 acoustic
and now...
Ovation CS257
Due to my changing interests (almost 100% learning fingerpicking now), I am considering dumping all of the guitars and getting a wider neck acoustic and focusing on fingerpicking. If I sell everything, I think I could end up with around $1200-1400. I think I could find a nice guitar and acoustic amp for that price (on the used market). The Schecter is an amazing, beautiful guitar, and I hate to get rid of it, but I don't play it and don't have the money to have a 'collection' of instruments that don't get played. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | |
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| If you follow the link within the description it'll take you to a thread right here on the OFC where the seller - Steve, OFC member name NovaScotian - posted pictures of the repair process. It looks like he did a more than adequate job.
That would be a really fine guitar (Engleman spruce top), but I believe it's a deep bowl. Would be much better volume and tone than your CS257, but would feel quite a bit different. Even at the BIN that's a bargain, IMO. |
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Location: closely held secret | I think it's a steal at that price. If I didn't already have more guitars than hangers (or walls, for that matter) I'd snap it up. I'd bet it has great tone, and it's only going to get better with playing. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | So, one more question/opinion... considering there is no sticker, can anyone offer an opinion specifically which model it is? Are there any other areas I could take a pic of, or things to look for that would help identify it?
Here are the pictures my father took:
http://ovationfanclub.ning.com/profiles/blogs/what-ovation-is-this
and this little pic of the control panel:
From what I can see, it is a CS257, not a CC257. Is there anywhere (besides the sticker) that would have a serial number or something that can help identify the SN/Date/Model? There is nothing stamped on the back of the head.
Thanks for any help.
By the way, I have chosen to keep this guitar and be very happy with it, at least for now. I have a habit of selling buying guitars, so who knows how long I will have it..
This seems to be the same guitar... unfortunately, they don't list a year for this one they are selling:
Elderly Guitars CS257 |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I think you're right, a CS257. I think the CCs are newer and would have a newer preamp. I don't think there's any way to cross check the serial numbers on Celebrities. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | Lue,
Mine (made in 1994) has a sticker and its says CC257, and has the rectangular OP-24Plus you have shown.
According to Ovation's website, the CS257 has the newer, round OP-30.
Jerome's Price Guide shows the CC257 being made from 1992-94 & 1996. The CS257 was made from 1997-2001 |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | I used to have a CS257 with the OP24+ so it probably changed over time. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | The sticker was removed along the way sometime - either by my seller, or the one he bought it from... who knows.
Elderly guitars has another CC257 with this preamp:
http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/images/20U/20U-10753_controls....
And, I have found lots of links that say "CS257 with OP24+ preamp".
Very confusing.
I get the impression that there may have been multiple variations of both the CC257's and CS257's... it is weird that they would not change the model number every time there was such a big change as the preamp.
If anyone knows something specific I could look for (obviously, not on the sticker) that would be the defining characteristic of a CC257, CS257, etc, etc... please let me know. |
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Location: south east Michigan | The Ovation line is chock full of "multiple variables". |
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Location: New Hampsha | From my research for the Decoder I would say that if the unit has the old bass/treble control it is definitely a CC. If it has an OP-30 it is definitely a CS. If it has an OP-24+ it is probably a CS but may be a late CC. |
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Location: UK | That PreAmp looks like an OP24+ with the 3 way Bass/Mid/Treble sliders just like I have on my CP247 (Celebrity Delux) Mid Bowl.
I have a CC-049 with the newer OP30 although my CC has a single sound hole.
Problem is a lot of these korean models had strange model numbers where the letter/number combination didn't follow the USA models so it's difficult to see what it is without that sticker.
Going by the pre-amp - As far as I know the OP24+ was around 2005
The top is going to be laminate (ply wood) rather than solid. To confirm that take a look at the edge of one of the sound holes and you'll probably see multiple layers of ply rather than one single layer as on the better US built models.
I'd say that when played acoustically (ie not plugged in) the laminate top models sound OK when you're playing around the first 5 frets but as you progress up the neck they can get a little dull. I own 2 of them although both mine are mid bowl. This dullness may be exagerated on a shallow bowl which won't have as much body. Although plugged in it should be just fine. |
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Location: London, Ontario, Canada | I went through the decoder, and by process of elimination (all the things it isn't) it is definitely either the CC257 or CS257. Unfortunately, it lists one having the old preamp, the other having the OP-30.
Since mine has the OP-24+, Mitzdawg is probably right, it is either a late CC or early CS.
I emailed Ovation to ask them if they can tell me any (non-sticker) distinguishing characteristic that I can use to tell the difference. We'll see if they respond and what they have to say.
I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread. I am on a couple of guitar forums and this community is by far the most helpful and knowledgeable I have seen yet (and very quick to respond). |
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| Don't expect a lot of info from Ovation. They don't have much to do with the Pac rim models. Heck, they read this board for information when they get stumped by a customer's historical question. We are truly a bunch of Ovation geeks. ;) :D |
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Location: UK | Note that the guitar you linked to at Elderly shows an OP24+ in the picture but their descriptions says it's an OP30
So I don't think their picture matches their description anyway. |
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Location: NW of Philadelphia | Pac Rim serials are kinda fuzzy to Ovation CS. The best they could give me on my CC257 serial number (#499xxx) was a batch made in the mid 1990's. Since I got it in 1995, I safely can assume mine is a 1994 since they didn't make them in before 1994 and skipped 1995 in production.
The serials listed at OFC Registry at Ovation Gallery kinda say if the serial starts with a 4xxxxx assume CC257, if 9xxxxxx assume CS257.
I hope this helps some. |
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Help identifying a guitar