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September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | After designing and building a new community music pavilion, and purchasing a sound system, I have put myself in a spot where I have no sound guys to operate it yet. So guess who gets to be the sound guy? ): Does anyone have a suggestion for a good beginning sound operator's guide? (Mixer board for Dummies?) ... Until I can get some people trained?
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 10583
Location: NJ | most boards are center detent
so zero everything out.
then you need ears
listen is it too bassy? add some mids too shrill add some bass
if it feedsback listen to the feedback
shrill cut the highs
low cut the bass
lots of trial and error
have fun |
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September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | Damn Vince... I gotta get up there & see what you have been up to!!
Nice work man... well done! |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Fly Templeman in to show you how to run it.... then you can teach someone else. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I have always followed along the same guidelines that Al mentioned and it used to serve me well.
Trust your ears. |
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February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by stephent28:
I have always followed along the same guidelines that Al mentioned and it used to serve me well.
Trust your ears. Developing ears for live sound mixing takes time and experience, and you can't trust your ears until you learn how to trust your meters. The first thing to understand and get right in live sound is the concept of unity gain. This establishes the correct gain structure throughout each stage of the mixing board and throughout subsequent components in the system. Doesn't matter how good you think your ears are, if you are fighting a badly set-up rig you'll get nowhere fast. It's easy, I posted something about this on the Ning after lasts year's Amelia event. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15682
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Fly Templeman in to show you how to run it.... then you can teach someone else. It would be money well spent.... |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Here is Paul's treatise on running a sound check. Required reading for this course. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Paul, I totally agree in theory but that doesn't explain the many times I have been to venues to see world class bands and the sounds system royally sucked.
If all the proper equipment is there then I can only blame the shitty sound on the tin ears of the sound man.
I think both are equally important. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I've been in a lot of venues where they had superb equipment but for some aesthetic reason they put the sound board in some totally inappropriate place, like off in a corner where the acoustics were totally different.
Sounded great if you were standing there.
Sounded like crap everywhere else in the room. |
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December 2003
Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | When you interview your candidates for Soundman talk almost in a whisper.
If they say "Huh?" they may have a hearing deficiency. If they don't their probably covering for their hearing loss. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by stephent28:
If all the proper equipment is there then I can only blame the shitty sound on the tin ears of the sound man.
I think both are equally important. I totally agree. Sound engineering is both an Art and a Science. Now this is something of an over-simplification but the artistic part is understanding how instruments should sound (especially when dealing with a complex mix) and the scientific part is being able achieve that sound via the mikes, EQ, outboards etc. Really good sound engineers have both of those aspects nailed, the rest have one of the two, or usually, neither, and that is just not good enough. |
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August 2003
Posts: 2246
Location: Yucaipa, California | 1. Set up a booth selling hearing protection.
2. Turn all knobs/sliders on the sound board to "11".
3. Weld them in place.
4. Sit back and become rich. |
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April 2008
Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | I know nothing about sound (except that the concert that had the best sound was when I was seated directly behind the mixing table), but that is one fine pavillion Vince. Yee hah! Just needs a few hay bales. |
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April 2009
Posts: 130
Location: London, UK | The HC Live Sound board is actually very good for PA issues, advice and tips. Take a look at some of the threads here:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid... |
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Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | Thanks for all the advice. (and the compliments on the pavillion) Paul, I've printed out the "treatise" and will be sitting down tonight to study it. One thing I HAVE found after dealing with six different sound guys at our church, is that (in MY opinion)the sound person really needs to either be an actual musician or have an understanding of how instruments should sound individually and together. (as was partially stated above) I have one guy who has educated himself technically, but hasn't a clue how the mix should sound. This makes for a lot of frustrated musicians and listeners. It kinda' sucks when you have to rely on volunteers. It seems like the majority of the ones who can really do it right are the ones getting paid for it (I can already someone posting "Ya Think?) |
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Joined:
September 2004
Posts: 777
Location: East Wenatchee, WA | Some of the best information on mixing I have ever read has been associated with Mackie. Try the Mackie User\'s Guide
It is all here and can apply to other mixers as well.
One of the big take-aways that I have gotten from Mackie is "don't BOOST EQ, CUT EQ" when you have sweepable mids. You put the boost to high, then sweep the band until you find the UGLIEST sound, then back the boost to cut to eliminate that ugliness. It seems to work especially well with microphones. Also, Rarely have large EQ adjustments from zero (as mentioned before). usually large EQ adjustments are best reserved for feedback elimination.
Good luck |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 65
Location: Phoenix | We often play at a venue that lets us use their sound system. It's not the greatest, but it saves us (me) from toting my system in. Almost invariably, when we come in we find the main EQ sliders have been set in the old smiley face. Bass and treble boosted to the max, sometimes with mids cut too. The result of course with those settings: massive feedback, shrill highs, and mud galore. The speakers can't go that low and all the amp's power is lost trying to push the bass.
I always go back to flat EQ, turn on the 75 Hz rumble filter, and we're good to go. |
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Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Yep, the old "instant gratification" EQ curve, the last preserve of the clueless soundman. Thing is, at low volume it works, but if you need to get above anything more than polite levels it'll screw your sound completely. Learning how to use a graphic EQ is an important skill that can be the difference between an OK sound and a great sound. And if you don't know how, or don't have the time to ring-out an unfamiliar house system at a gig, then leaving it flat is the safest bet. Another good point you raise is use of bass roll-off filters. It's good practice to engage these on any sound-source that doesn't have much LF energy such as vocals and most acoustic stringed instruments. Leave 'em off for kick drum, bass guitar etc. That will help keep the whole mix cleaner, reduce low-end feedback and increase overall system headroom a little. |
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January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Best I can do is send a signal. The rest is up to the expert (or not so expert) sound engineers. |
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Any Advice on Mixer Board Operation?