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Location: Chicago | Whether it's Glen's "Wichita," a bluegrass tune or Gershwin many of us play leads over songs with tricky chords (three, five, fifty). How do YOU do it? There are many approaches from "winging it" to scales, arpeggios, chord shapes, subs, etc. I met a guy the other day who sees all notes as the number on a clock! Go figure...
What's your secret? |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Greg , Good Point..
Do ya mean the..strum ( threeeng )
then ... note by note ( tang..ting .. teng ..tang )
..as far as the " clock " goes .. ya mean .. end at root note ( tonic ) ?
Vic
.. Greg`s at it again.... where are those aspirins.. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | i SEE notes like trees in a forest. |
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Location: North Wales, UK. | I see them as within the base chords within the key I am playing in. I asked a very good lead guitarist many years ago to teach me to play lead guitar.
Well, he looked at me like like I just fell out of a tree and said:
" It is a personal thing playing lead and my style may not suite you but I see playing any note within a chord as lead guitar".
What he meant of course was, improvise within the basic chords and all the rest will follow with lots of practice. Don't hold a day job down if you want to become a brilliant guitarist.
dave. |
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| Haven't played "lead" guitar in years. But in the late sixties I pickup up a folio sized book called "How to Play Lead Guitar." With fretboard diagrams they gave you various "ideas" that you could apply to different keys and chord patterns, mostly blues based. I then read an article in GP in which one guy said that you're always one fret away from a note that will fit over whatever chord is being played; you can slide up or down and make it sound like that's what you intended to do.
So armed with a book, a pearl of wisdom and a glorious ignorance of what I was doing, I was off to the races. |
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| I could always come up with something and it might never have been the same twice but over the years I've found ways to get to where I'm going with a bit more finesse - it's still rarely the same twice though unless it needs to be. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | When I play lead I see the notes hanging in the air. But then it always gets real foggy, a real pea souper and I can't see a thing. That's usually in the middle of the first verse. It then turns to night. |
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Location: GA USA | Okay, I'll confess. For me it's the Minor Pentatonic, or if it doesn't need to be bluesy, drop it down 3 frets and it becomes the Relative Scale for ballads and country. Sometimes a little Major Scale or Dorian Mode thrown in. A real simpleton approach.
In the last couple of years, I've been learning more open chords and licks off the open chords. When I used Grayson Capps' music for ear training, it opened a few doors in that regard. I realized that many licks are just finger movements while fingering open chords. I guess I knew that, but was too lazy to apply it intentionally.
Of course, I'm only typing this so Greg will chime in again. Honestly, I was just thinking the other day that it's about time for another Dobro Lesson. :)
Thanks for the thread. I look forward to what Greg, Roger, Matt, Damon, etc., etc., ... have to say on this topic. If Debanjo will throw in his two cents we'll really learn sumpin'. |
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Location: GA USA | Also, what is a good example of a song that inspires you learn the solo?
I was listening the last couple of days to Emmylou's Live at the Ryman CD. The cover of Steve Earle's Guitar Town has some brilliant open chord solo work. And great dobro (the instrument) playing as well. |
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Location: SoCal | I'm not a lead player at all. Wish I was. I can memorize leads but never really get comfortable playing them in public. I've tried. I've memorized scales but then when I try to play, it sounds like I'm playing scales.
I've come to accept the fact that I'm an old folkie who learns songs, not guitar..... |
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Location: Utah | My secret? Beer all around!
Improv is not my strong suit, and I'll attribute it to equal doses of fear and ignorance. I like to have a structure to start from if I have to play a solo.
One rule for me, though, is to make it mine. Copying someone else's solo just doesn't make it sound smooth or relaxed. I may start with their solo but then change things around a bit.
Another trick for me is to try to mimic segments of the main theme or melody. Throw in the main catch phrase melody, or part of it, here and there. Play the same sequence in a harmony over a different set of chords. Basically, try to sound a bit familiar at some point during the solo.
And then I try to toss in something different. A chromatic passing note, or a double stop.
Lead guitar is not my strength, it is a struggle. I need all the help I can get. Explain your clock thing. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | I'm trying to move past pentatonic scales... but they're SO ingrained that it's quite a struggle.
I'm trying a little every night. |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
[
I've come to accept the fact that I'm an old folkie [/QB] It's spelled F-O-G-E-Y |
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Location: GA USA | Amen to all the above. Sig hit on an important point. Starting with the song's melody is often a good idea. Sometimes for practice, I'll just try and play the melody.
I think the solo on Nirvana's Come As You Are is great, and it's nothing but the melody. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
[
I've come to accept the fact that I'm an old folkie It's spelled F-O-G-E-Y [/QB] |
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Location: Chicago | Well, there are the books (Greene, Martino, Pass) and then there's you on the spot, seat-of-the-pants.
Wynton Marasalis sez: stay of the root (at least don't start and finish there).
I've been following a basic notion: as the chords go by, stay roughly in one spot, try to visualize the "skeleton" of each (esp. third, seventh, fifth) and weave something that sounds good to your ear. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Greg was that all..?..
No , " do this , do that..see ya next week " ..`kay.. :)
Who is W Marasalis ? .. , I thought starting/ finishing with the root was a good thing , easy to show the melody , and in line with FlySig`s comments.. or am I completely off ( would n`t be too surprised if I was )... :(
Ye were talking about ,
playing melody / lead .. , by 1 person / 1 instrument , like :
, Melody = Strum = Orchestral ...and
Lead = Riff = Note for note ...
Or is there a catch ..?..
Vic |
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Location: GA USA | He didn't even say "the possibilities are endless". I feel robbed. |
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Location: New South Wales, Australia | Originally posted by CrimsonLake:
I'm trying to move past pentatonic scales... but they're SO ingrained that it's quite a struggle.
I'm trying a little every night. Pentatonic for me too which makes me lazy. I don't really have to think. Occasionally I'll throw in a couple of arpeggios or maybe just play first and thirds if my brain is working quick enough.
Been playing with a good bass player for the past couple of months so I'm learning to really listen and perhaps play less. Two or three notes are often as good as or better than twenty. |
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Location: Chicago | Here's perhaps the most important conncept of all: Picture a dramatic chord change like the one where "Wichita Lineman" modulates from F major to D major:
"(F) Searchin' in the sun for (D) ANOTHER OVERLOAD."
It is critical to identify the LEAD or GUIDE tones, the notes that are DIFFERENT as you make the "dramatic" change. So as we go from the key of F (Gmin, Dmin, Amin: here we perhaps "feel" the relaive key of D minor) to the key of D (G major to D major) you have these main differences: F natural to F sharp
C natural to C sharp
B flat to B natural
So as you play over the Amin > Dmin > G > D
You can use the chord tones (Amin7=ACEG > Dmin7=DFAC > G=GBD > DF#A[C#])
NOTE that the guide tone, the critical shift will be the F natural to F# (and Bb to B natural)
Another cool point comes at "and I can hear you through the whine AND the Wichita Lineman..." where the G major chord (IV in the key of D)dips down to a G MINOR ("Neapolitan minor") and back onto the D chord. Here the guide tone--within the G chord G-B-D to watch is the B natural down to B flat up to B natural.
Lots of words, but the music is easy and beautiful! |
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Location: GA USA | That's our boy! |
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Location: Tennessee | I like Matt Smith's philosophy.
1. "You're never more than one fret away from being right".
2. "If it sounds nice, play it twice".
3. "If you hit a wrong note, play it again so people think you meant to do it".
4. "Sing what you're playing ... or play what you're singing".
Or sumpin' like that. I may have been daydreaming when he was covering that stuff in the clinics.
My own philosphy is just "BONZAI!!!" and play real loud. And try to play around the chord forms where I am on the fretboard. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
1. "You're never more than one fret away from being right". Matt may have changed that theorem after my attendance.
2. "If it sounds nice, play it twice". In the same row?
3. "If you hit a wrong note, play it again ... ... and again, and again... vinyl scratch skip...
4. "Sing what you're playing ... or play what you're singing". Strike four! Iffy's out... 
As said before, "sippin' from a firehose!". |
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| I don't think he ever looks at the fretboard one time in all of this...lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYThXkntvek&feature=related |
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Location: Chicago | Flamenco really has little in the way of changes (over and over it's Amin G F7 E7). You can hear Paco grow in the trio where McLaughlin and DiMeola (Coryell before him) push him out into jazz territory. For example FREVO RASGADO modulates from Amin to Gmin to Ab major to F minor! There Paco moves to a whole new realm with splendid results! A true master. |
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| I don't know much about McLaughlin although I've heard of him often enough - interesting to see him using what looks like a flat pick for that style of music. |
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Location: Chicago | I love the tune, "All the Things You Are" especially by Joe Pass |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I don't see any notes at all. Wouldn't make a lot of difference if I did. I hear the chords, make up my own tune within the chord structure, then play what I hear that tune to be, all pretty much on the fly. As somebody else said, play the same song a second time and those leads will never be the same. I may repeat some of the melody line, but more often than not I don't. Latin songs seem to come easiest for me. |
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Location: enid, ok | I just trust my ears. And think about guys like Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, Jeff Beck, that are really good over changes. And wish I could do that. |
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Location: Michigan | At this point I play melodies and lead lines and try to put insome bass runs around the chords. Mostly when playing around the nut. Only been back into playing a little over a year or so.
I can't get to theoretical for too long yet or it dampens the fun of playing.
This is a good thread and interesting points made
Theres 2 things that I will always remember that make sense that were stated to me.
1)Your left hand is your brain, your right hand is your personality.
2)You know a clam when you hit one.
Wally |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Playing in a group will force you develop your ad lib/improv skills relatively rapidly. Matt Smith also reinforces some of the points made in this thread during his workshops. Trust your ears, sing or hum what you hear within the music, then just play along. |
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Location: Chicago | Ain't that the truth (and to develop your time & rhythm). I also HIGHLY recommend a loop pedal for practice. DAMN, it's fun!
Anyone try playing over "Wichita Lineman?"? It's fun! |
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Location: Chicago | Love JT\'s new version..... |
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Location: Chicago | There are many rock, classical, bluegrass, and country tunes out there with great chord changes. Jazz should not hog THAT honor.
Take the PACHELBEL Canon progression:
I - V - vi - iii - IV - I - IV - V
D - A - Bm - F#m - G - D - G - A
Blues Traveler's "Hook" and Green Day's "Basket Case" (Green Day skips the last IV and extends the V to last for 2 bars). |
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Location: Chicago | Another tune with great changes, love that resolution to D major!!!
Moody Blues: TUESDAY AFTERNOON
F
Tuesday afternoon
C Bb
I'm just beginning to see
Am D
Now I'm on my way
C Bb
It doesn't matter to me
Am Bb
Chasing the clouds away
F
Something calls to me
C Bb
The trees are calling me near
Am D
I've got to find out why
C Bb
Those gentle voices I hear
Am D
Explain it all with a sigh
D D# E D#
G G F C (2X)
G F C G F C
I'm looking at myself reflections of my mind
G F C G F C
It's just the kind of day to leave myself behind
G F C G F C
So gently swaying through the fairyland of love
G F C G F C
If you'll just come with me and see the beauty of |
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Location: Chicago | Oh yeah, and then there's the seventh chord that resolves to minor (like B7 to Emin). This opens the possibility of the wide world of DIMINISHED chords. Any one here use those critters? It gives you the b9, the 3rd, the 5th and the 7th of the V chord on to the minor.
What the hell is he TALKING about? |
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Location: Fernandina Beach | ive been know to dabble a bit in chords such as these dobro. its great fun. there are a two site i really like to put some to use
http://www.theguitarguy.com/home.htm
http://jguitar.com/?notes=flats
the second has a chord finder where you can find the names o :cool: f any chord you imput. usually 3 or 4
its alot of fun |
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Location: Newington, CT | I see the upcoming notes in a shape on the fretboard, generally within three frets and three strings:
----|----|----|----|----|--------------
----|----|----|----|----|--------------
----|--X-|--X-|----|--X-|--------------
----|--X-|--X-|----|--X-|--------------
----|--X-|----|--X-|--X-|--------------
----|----|----|----|----|--------------
I'll see something like that pattern in my mind, and move around in it. However, my limitation (among -- ahem -- "several") is that I feel comfortable only within that "box." I then can go to another note much further away on the neck, that I know works, and see the same type of "box" from there. Causes more swoops than is probably all that good.
Also, I have learned (very recently) a REALLY valuable thing: truly playing the "wrong" note on purpose. I do mainly improvisation, so I spend a lot of time going "from here to there" on the fretboard. I've found that if you are heading toward a destination note, it is sometimes extremely effective to go toward that note in hitting "wrong" half-steps along the way. Then, when you end up on the note that you know really "hits the spot," it can sound glorious.
I hope some of that made sense. I'm not schooled either in the theory of it all, or the lingo, so I described it as well as I knew how.
GREAT topic, Greg! |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I don't see any notes at all. Wouldn't make a lot of difference if I did. I hear the chords, make up my own tune within the chord structure, then play what I hear that tune to be, all pretty much on the fly. As somebody else said, play the same song a second time and those leads will never be the same. I may repeat some of the melody line, but more often than not I don't. Latin songs seem to come easiest for me. Apologies for bumping this one...I was idly going through the threads and came across this entry. Professor: you and I do pretty much the same thing, I think. That is, if I understood your post correctly.
I've been looking for others who do this...is this what you do in public as well?
Thanks!
Alan |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by AlanM:
Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I don't see any notes at all. Wouldn't make a lot of difference if I did. I hear the chords, make up my own tune within the chord structure, then play what I hear that tune to be, all pretty much on the fly. As somebody else said, play the same song a second time and those leads will never be the same. I may repeat some of the melody line, but more often than not I don't. Latin songs seem to come easiest for me. Apologies for bumping this one...I was idly going through the threads and came across this entry. Professor: you and I do pretty much the same thing, I think. That is, if I understood your post correctly.
I've been looking for others who do this...is this what you do in public as well? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | He does it very well. I thought he knew Maury's part to one of the Croce songs I played and it turned out he hadn't heard the song before. I figured it was something akin to the ability of some people to harmonize vocally with most anything. Some can and most can't. I'm a memorizer, primarily because I don't usually try to leave my comfort zone. When I get tired of memorizing, maybe I'll try to stretch a little. So far, it's enough of a challenge to just try to nail one song one time. There are very few I can get through without a mistake. |
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| Buy a cheap book called "Fretboard logic".In two hours you will learn the fretboard up and down.I'm serious.It woke me up. |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by Ultrafan:
Buy a cheap book called "Fretboard logic".In two hours you will learn the fretboard up and down.I'm serious.It woke me up. Hmmmmmmmmmm...might just do that. I'm like the good Professor...I can pretty much jam to anything. Just about always could. But it would be nice to know what all I'm doing's called! |
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Location: Newington, CT | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Originally posted by AlanM:
Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
I don't see any notes at all. Wouldn't make a lot of difference if I did. I hear the chords, make up my own tune within the chord structure, then play what I hear that tune to be, all pretty much on the fly. As somebody else said, play the same song a second time and those leads will never be the same. I may repeat some of the melody line, but more often than not I don't. Latin songs seem to come easiest for me. Apologies for bumping this one...I was idly going through the threads and came across this entry. Professor: you and I do pretty much the same thing, I think. That is, if I understood your post correctly.
I've been looking for others who do this...is this what you do in public as well?
On a more practical note, I usually hit those clams when I'm trying to do something new and break out of the usual. I figure it's the price of stretching myself. |
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Playing Over Chord Changes