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Location: Flahdaw | that with all the built in effects on today's amps, compression isn't offered as one of them? It should be there on my Acoustasonic along with the "phase, notch filter, and SFX control". Am I wrong? |
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Location: Bluffton, SC | "Am I wrong?"
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Weaser P:
"Am I wrong?"
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Location: Tennessee | I once heard that compression always needs to be first in the effect chain. So it makes sense to have it in a pedal or other device rather than in the amp. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | What's 'Compression'? :confused: |
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| Originally posted by stonebobbo:
I once heard that compression always needs to be first in the effect chain. So it makes sense to have it in a pedal or other device rather than in the amp. Exactly. If you chain a compressor after other effects (such as distortion/overdrive, echo/reverb/chorus, etc.) the effect would not be pleasing. Temp can explain it best, but you want compression on the raw guitar signal. Putting it on the amp would prevent using any other effects pedals. Of course, if you used NO effects pedals and your guitar signal went straight to the amp then that would work. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
What's 'Compression'? :confused: `Kay .. ya take .. no, ye make .. but before look at ..it`s like this..in PLATO`s time , and ARISTOTELES had the same idea .. which prompted Galileo Galilei to embark , on what Leonardo would experiment with Colors .. and caused Columbus to discover AMERICA , cuz the World was flat as a pancake .. but the Rocky-Mountains stuck out , so .. the New Land , was named after Americo Vespucci ..
hope this helps .. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I don't need no steenking compression |
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| Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
What's 'Compression'? :confused: I'll try, but Paul T please jump in and correct any misinformation I give:
A compressor pedal's circuitry will limit the signal that exceeds a certain level. This helps to "smooth out" choppy sounds and at the same time "lifts" the level for weaker frequencies by smoothing the attack and decay of a signal, softening the front edge of the note and amplifying its tail. The overall effect in greater tonal balance across the entire freq range. The effect can also yield longer sustain. You might think by limiting the peaks that you'd weaken the signal, but the resulting output is such that the signal ultimately sounds stronger. With compression on I can turn the gain down on my amp by 2-3 units and get just as loud (and fatter) tone. |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
What's 'Compression'? :confused: No compression?
Your car she no go!! :D
AJ |
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Location: South of most, North of few | AJ, you beat me to it...
Compression is the one thing you never want to check on anything you own. It's never good news. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by G8r:
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
What's 'Compression'? :confused: I'll try, but Paul T please jump in and correct any misinformation I give:
A compressor pedal's circuitry will limit the signal that exceeds a certain level. This helps to "smooth out" choppy sounds and at the same time "lifts" the level for weaker frequencies by smoothing the attack and decay of a signal, softening the front edge of the note and amplifying its tail. The overall effect in greater tonal balance across the entire freq range. The effect can also yield longer sustain. You might think by limiting the peaks that you'd weaken the signal, but the resulting output is such that the signal ultimately sounds stronger. With compression on I can turn the gain down on my amp by 2-3 units and get just as loud (and fatter) tone. |
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Location: Utah | The Fender Princeton Recording amp has a compressor built in. Just because it's on there doesn't mean it has to be used. Personally, I'd rather have a compressor than trem on an amp. |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by FlySig:
Personally, I'd rather have a compressor than trem on an amp. You need to play more surf music. :cool: |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | FLY :
Why do ya want to compress ( squash ) an Acoustic`s sound ??
Vic
.. Unless ya mean a PARTIALLY reduced compression.. ratio 2:1 perhaps ? .. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by darkbarguitar:
Originally posted by G8r:
Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
What's 'Compression'? :confused: I'll try, but Paul T please jump in and correct any misinformation I give:
A compressor pedal's circuitry will limit the signal that exceeds a certain level. This helps to "smooth out" choppy sounds and at the same time "lifts" the level for weaker frequencies by smoothing the attack and decay of a signal, softening the front edge of the note and amplifying its tail. The overall effect in greater tonal balance across the entire freq range. The effect can also yield longer sustain. You might think by limiting the peaks that you'd weaken the signal, but the resulting output is such that the signal ultimately sounds stronger. With compression on I can turn the gain down on my amp by 2-3 units and get just as loud (and fatter) tone.
By "lifting" the levels of the weak frequencies, and limiting the levels of the stronger frequencies you can easily cause the instrument to sound "cold" because you've effectively removed the dynamics that make an acoustic guitar sound great.
I'm not saying compressors are bad. They are an invaluable tool in the right hands. Keep in mind, unlike something like a reverb or trem or delay that when you reduce your increase your input volume (vol and tone on guitar) the effect responds accordingly... Not so much with most compressors. Touching the volume on the guitar could make a mess real quick.
A couple of additional clarifications. A compressor, is a compressor, and a limiter is a limiter. There are many compressor/limiters available as well, but they are indeed separate devices. There are also Sustains and what a lot of you seem to be discussing is an EXPANDER or EXCITER with some limiting. And lets not forget gates.
Here is a nice article on compression, and note... right at the top, "...a process that reduces the dynamic range of an audio signal" As I mentioned above, this can be a good thing in the right hands. A nice tight fat consistent signal being sent to the amp.... or... a dull lifeless signal.
Bottom line... Choose the proper tool for the job.
Want a fatter signal, use an exciter or expander. Want compression, use compression. Want limiting, use a limiter. etc etc..
This all is likely why they are not usually put into amplifiers. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Miles, good info. I guess what I would be looking for is something to even out the sound of my amplified fingerpicking. I don't pluck each string evenly sometimes (or ever) and it gets kinda harsh when amplified. What do you think? |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | By T C Electronic ..
Everything ya wanna know about compression and then some..
http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Misc/compression-ap... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by darkbarguitar:
Miles, good info. I guess what I would be looking for is something to even out the sound of my amplified fingerpicking. I don't pluck each string evenly sometimes (or ever) and it gets kinda harsh when amplified. What do you think? There are a few factors. A limiter may be more in order than a compressor, or maybe you need an amplifier that can handle the dynamics of your playing better. Unfortunately giving advice without actually hearing what you are talking about is difficult.
I will say this... and this is strictly my opinion, but... I try to shy away from using technology to fix a problem.
If your playing and your guitar sounds good when it's NOT amplified, but the dynamics are sounding "harsh" when you ARE amplified, I'd research a more appropriate amp first. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by darkbarguitar:
Miles, good info. I guess what I would be looking for is something to even out the sound of my amplified fingerpicking. I don't pluck each string evenly sometimes (or ever) and it gets kinda harsh when amplified. What do you think? I'd be saying you've just identified your next area of growth in your playing. Plug in and sit in front of your practice amp and practice evening out your plucking. Keep a nail file by your side, as slight differences in nail length can affect tone incredibly. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by FlicKreno aka Solid Top:
FLY :
Why do ya want to compress ( squash ) an Acoustic`s sound ??
Vic
.. Unless ya mean a PARTIALLY reduced compression.. ratio 2:1 perhaps ? .. Really it is just enough to tame the dynamic range. I have no idea what ratio works, I just dial in 4 out of 10 on the Aphex and it sounds better.
I find it really helps the band mix when a song goes from finger picking to strumming, or when solo and the songs vary from fingerstyle to strumming. Either the fingerstyle is too quiet or the strumming is too loud without some compression.
For the electric guitar it helps even more to sound professional instead of like a garage band. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Taming DYNAMIC Range is a Good reason , certainly helps in a band , makes it easier to " stay in step " , .. sounds like ya know what yer doing .. ( no pun intended ) :D
.. 4 out`a 10 on the APHEX might be more useful advice than all that technical clatter ..
Vic
.. Life CAN be simple .. :) |
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| Great info, Miles. Thanks for the link and the explanations. That'll point me in the right direction as I play around with my Boss CS-3. |
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Location: NW Washington State | Some of the stompbox compressors seem to act as limiters when the compression is turned all the way down.
If someone didn't already say it, one reason to put the compressor first is that it will emphasize the noise created by other effects that are before it in the chain. The compressor brings up the level of low volume sounds like the hiss from a fuzzbox or phaser. |
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anyone find it odd....