|
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 228
| I did find an excellent thread via Search in which the differences between the TXs and the Ts were delineated and, to a degree, denigrated, but my question centers on the contour of the 2078TX.
I'm thin, so a rounded back poses no problems in regard to comfort, but I do have a bad shoulder that has kept me away from acoustics in general.
Being that there are differences in bracing, et cetera, I know that this question becomes problematic, but all other things being semi-equal, does the contour mean a sacrifice in tone and projection?
Thank you. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I don't think that we ever really cleared-up the T vs TX debate with a side-by-side test.
As to the contour bowl... I like contour bowls, but I play seated.
I just dug-out my 2078T Contour Sweet-T to remind myself that I don't like playing while standing.
I have developed this thing where I wear the guitar off to my right side, and high-up on my torso.
The contour bowl did force me to hold my guitar more perpendicular, and now I do that with all my O's.
But I still don't like playing while standing. I can do it, I just don't like it.
And, No. I actually think that the contour bowl increases volume and projection over the mid-bowl.
But comparing the 1778T to the 2078T isn't quite the same cuz the old T has it's own flavor. Y'know?
And, No. I don't hate contour T's, I have two of them. :p |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | As stated several times before, I don't like the contour bowls. I'm skinny and the guitar just doesn't feel right — it feels a bit like a dog that's doesn't want to be in your lap and is subtly trying to get away. Sold MY Sweetwater T for this very reason, although I liked everything else about it. Soundwise, I don't know or care if they're different than a 'regular' deep bowl. I will never own another contour Ovation. And since we're on the subject, I sure wish Ovation would stop making all their Collectors and other high-end guitars with ONLY contour bowls. Or at the very least, make a third of the Collector run with regular deep bowls for the guys who don't like the contours.
I know, picky, picky, picky.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey Oddball, Good to hear from ya'...
You disappear, only to reappear to talk bad about contour bowls.
You've been lurking and just had to pounce on this one? :p |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | If you don't like a contour bowl then don't play one.
Did I miss the memo stating "you must play this guitar" ? There's about a gazillion different guitars out there, so go find the one that's right for you.
CLICK. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | .. Coffee .. ? .. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | I've never understood the love for the T. At one time it may have been a good value, but there are much better guitars in the same price range. I'd find something else or save a few more dollars and move up to a better guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4067
Location: Utah | The contour bowl makes the guitar sit and feel very much like a traditional wood box. So, if your shoulder gives you problems with a regular wood guitar, you probably won't like the contour bowl.
The mid bowl tends to roll a bit skyward when played standing. Not a lot, but a bit. It feels odd at first, but after a couple of sessions you stop noticing it, and when you go back to a non-round back guitar it feels odd. One thing about the mid bowl is that you have to learn not to hug the guitar tight with your right arm, or it will roll up. Relax your right arm and it finds a nice angle.
I think that the mid bowl would be less of a problem for your shoulder than the contour bowl, if you can't play a regular wood acoustic guitar.
Outside of that, I prefer the contour bowl for sound. A bit bigger and fuller. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | "So, Do You Guys Hate the Contoured Ts?"
No I do not! In fact, I consider the contour bowl a major improvement in the Ovation design.
If full sized 'O's are a playing issue for you, try to find a parlor such as the '97C. One of our members has a shoulder issue and purchased a '97C. I believe she's pretty pleased with it.
Have you tried a SSB? Plugged in, they can be very rewarding. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Soundwise I think the Contour bowl is the best one yet. The early deep hand laid bowls are louder but they are also feedback magnets in a loud environment.
SSB's are very comfortable and may be what you need.
I haven't played a TX yet but if they would make an SSB "T" it would be a worthy candidate.
Any chance of a Contour SSB showing up soon? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | There's two kinds of customers ...
One kind goes to a restaurant and doesn't like the food. So he never goes back. His point has been made. The other kind goes to a restaurant and doesn't like the food so he feels compelled to setup a protest out front warning other people not to eat there either. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | There's a third kind of customer - the one who asks people who've been to the restaurant before if they liked the food and why. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I totally understand Dave's response. Alison, the question wasn't posed as "Do you like it?", but "Do you hate it?".
Kind of fishing for negative responses.
I didn't care so much for the contour bowl at first, but I have issues with changes anyway. I've certainly grown used to it, now it feels perfectly natural and comfortable, sitting or standing. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal | I don't hate the contour bowl, but for me, it addresses a problem that I never had. So I don't feel a need to switch to it.
Other people took to it like a duck to water. Nothing wrong with either attitude.... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | People forget that there are many different sizes and shapes of woodbacked guitars, too. There's probably a bunch of debate on which is better, but I don't care what they think.
As far as the contour, I didn't like the way it fit against my body at first. I've never liked how a square back guitar cuts into my chest either. I can't tell on the sound, because the only contour bowl I have played much is the LAV Koa, and it sounds different than my spruce or cedar or bubinga or graphite or plywood topped guitars. Different is good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | I never got comfy with the contour bowl.
I wear it high up on my chest and not comforable there, I did not like it sitting either.
I perfer Deep or mid bowls. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2006
Posts: 5575
Location: big island | ya' gotta look at it using the other side of your brain. "contour" does not refer to the shape of the guitar's back. it refers to the shape of the player's front. ;) in america especially, more players have a contoured front that fits into the shape of the guitar's back. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
I consider the contour bowl a major improvement in the Ovation design. I HAVE a Belly and NEVER had an issue with the round back guitar. I've said it before and will say it again. If you are sitting, and the guitar is touching your belly, or it rolls off your leg, you are holding it wrong. Period. I don't even care if I get flamed. I'm 90 lbs overweight, can't see my feet. My OFC Adamas does not lean against my body when I sit to play it. It sets on my leg, where it belongs.
As for the contour, could care less about the aesthetic, although I realize that was one of the reasons they built it... that and tired of people who couldn't figure out how to hold a guitar... but for me... the better projection and tone sold me on the countour bowls. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12759
Location: Boise, Idaho | I don't remember you being that fat, Miles. Maybe you just have small feet. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I don't remember you being that fat, Miles. Maybe you just have small feet. LOL!! I'm gonna use that one... that's too funny... "I'm not fat, I just have small feet"... priceless..
Seriously... while I am very overweight, I hide it will with my height... and not breathing... but I do have a gut. But i've seen skinny guys complain about the rolling-off-the-leg thing and they are hugging the guitar like it's a lost loved one. Not only do basic physics come into play at that point... but.. they're killing the tone by restricting the top like that.
I don't like the way most any Acoustic guitar of size cuts into my right upper arm... so I just move the guitar to sit on my left leg, and problem solved... and it's easier (for me) to play as well. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 243
Location: Pewaukee, WI | I like the idea behind the contour bowl, but I don't like the thickness of the bowl at the top (against my chest). I started with electrics so I'm partial to the SSB. An SSB or mid-bowl with a belly contour I'd go for. I do have a couple deep bowls and some mid-bowls, and like the sound, so someday I'll probably own a contour bowl. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | It's probably just the way I sit and hold the guitar, but I don't notice a difference physically between the contour, the mid depth and the deep bowl. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
As for the contour, could care less about the aesthetic, although I realize that was one of the reasons they built it Was this a major concern or just a 'by-product' of tonal/volume/construction research? I hadn't thought of the aesthetic aspect before...  |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by CrimsonLake:
It's probably just the way I sit and hold the guitar, but I don't notice a difference physically between the contour, the mid depth and the deep bowl. +1 |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by 2ifbyC:
Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
As for the contour, could care less about the aesthetic, although I realize that was one of the reasons they built it Was this a major concern or just a 'by-product' of tonal/volume/construction research? I hadn't thought of the aesthetic aspect before...
or...
They wanted to use the "swoosh" on the 12th fret, so they designed the back to match it. Then realized it sounded better, was lighter, and easier to hold. :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
It was my understanding they were trying to solve the "it falls off me knee" and "tips up" complaints.. Ah ha, good! Function should always be considered first... swoosh last... if ever... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
It was my understanding they were trying to solve the "it falls off me knee" and "tips up" complaints.. and ended up a the flatter bottom, contour, and the sound enhancements. Of course the bowl uses the micro-bleeds now so it's lighter too... OH! So you are saying that it was originally designed to compensate for Fat, Clumsy People? :eek: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "designed to compensate for Fat, Clumsy People"
Hey now... I resemble that... :( |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey now... I wasn't pointing fingers!
Personally, I think all of my pants and shirts have shrunk in the wash...
Or at least that is what I'm hoping happened. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Location Location Location | Tall & skinny am I, but honestly, I couldn't tell any difference in either sound or feel. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Art, I think it's how they're making clothes these days. All my jeans seem to be shrinking in the waistline and stretching in the inseam. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by CrimsonLake:
It's probably just the way I sit and hold the guitar, but I don't notice a difference physically between the contour, the mid depth and the deep bowl. DITTO! No preference, No "Dislike"! :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | For the people that play ovations and have always played ovations the "issue" of the bowl back is non-existent. We just pick them up and play them, everything feels natural. Same with the folks that play wooden box guitars. That wooden box feels totally natural and comfortable to them. No issue whatsoever.
The "issue" is that 95% of the players and buyers there play wooden box guitars. To get them to even consider using or switching to an ovation is a huge hurdle because the bowl just does not feel "right" to them. The guitar slips off their knee when seated and points to the sky when strapped on. Yes, I know WE do not have those issues, but WE are not the pool of potential first time buyers. By FAR the number one objection potential first time ovation buyers cite for not choosing the ovation over a wooden guitar is the bowl.
Sooo, in an effort to LESSEN the difference between a bowl back and a wooden guitar, ovation came up with the Contour Bowl. And I think they nail it right on the money. It has lowered the barrier of entry for first time ovation buyers. Hard to tell if it has helped market share because the whole damn market is in the crapper, but I doubt it has hurt.
Does everyone like it? Of course not. May of us don't like change. Hell we still but shiny bowls !!! Does it make every wooden guiar player want to go out and buy a countour bowl ovation? Of course not. They don't like change either.
For me personally the contour bowl has been a god send. Over the last 5 years I have migrated to playing mostly wooden guitars, so with the contour bowl on my ovations they sit and feel much more the same as my other guitars so swapping back and forth is very natural and transparent. It also hightens the sentation when I DO pick up a non contour, initial reaction is wow, THIS is different.
Good that there are many choices. Deep bowls for thos ethat want them, contours, shallows, and of course wooden box guitars. All good. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15676
Location: SoCal | Everything you say, Toby, is correct. What I find odd about this thread is the title, which is "So, Do You guys Hate the Contoured Ts"?
Has anybody here said they hate it? Where did that come from? |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2003
Posts: 9301
Location: south east Michigan | If I ever get yet another guitar I'd like to have the contour bowl. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 1008
Location: Tuscany, Italy | What Dave said.
I've played a "contoured O" just one time in a guitar shop. No negative impression to report. I'd really like to add one of this to my small collection. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 228
| Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Everything you say, Toby, is correct. What I find odd about this thread is the title, which is "So, Do You guys Hate the Contoured Ts"?
Has anybody here said they hate it? Where did that come from? You're reading too much into this. It was merely a rhetorical question, and a rhetorical question is designed to stimulate response (the rhetorical question in Aristotle's parlance is known as erotema). Because I had only been able to find one thread on the 2078TX, I wondered if the prevailing opinion was that contoured bodies were desirable.
I see now that that opinions are mixed, and I truly appreciate all of the well-considered responses (even yours, Gallerinski Von Tupperware--that is, your most recent response, the one posted after the caffeine wore off). I have to admit your initial response took me aback.
Again, I thank those who shared their experience and offered their expertise. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 228
| Typo repair:
I wondered if the prevailing opinion was that contoured bodies were desirable
should be
...undesirable |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | How you phrase a question can highly influence the answer you get. Like this ...
Hey guys, what do you think of Taylor guitars? Do you like them?
- or -
Hey guys, why is it that everyone thinks Taylor guitars are such total pieces of shit?
See, just a hypothetical example but I'm sure the answers you would get to these two made up questions would be very different. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2007
Posts: 843
Location: CA | OMA — You're right I haven't been around too much lately. And sorry if I appear a tad irritable. Perhaps it has something to do with being laid off after 25 years and having to find a new job at age 59. But I also feel strongly that Ovation seems to think the contour backs are the bees knees. Just want to toss out — in a nice way — that not all Ovation players like the contour. If I ever have the occasion, I'll try one again, but sure didn't like the first one.
GALLERINSKI — Point taken. I don't. But Hwy61 did ask the question.
LANAKI — Well put. LOL
I remember from 'Paint Your Wagon' that Lee Marvin gets into a discussion about two kinds of people. The bartender says there are "them that are staying and them that are leaving." Marvin says, "Nope. That's wrong. There's two kinds of people all right, but there's them that are going somewhere and there's them that are going nowhere." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Eli Wallach said, in The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly, "There are two kinds of people my friend. Those who come in by the door, and those who come in by the window." |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 228
| Originally posted by Gallerinski:
How you phrase a question can highly influence the answer you get. Like this ...
Hey guys, what do you think of Taylor guitars? Do you like them?
- or -
Hey guys, why is it that everyone thinks Taylor guitars are such total pieces of shit?
See, just a hypothetical example but I'm sure the answers you would get to these two made up questions would be very different. I believe that, if you would have read my post, instead of typing from the gut after reading the thread title, the results would have been very different.
In any regard, again I thank all of you for your input.
See you all again some day.
Adieu |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | I apologize, yes I misinterpreted your question.
Your question was exactly "Do You Guys Hate The Contoured T's"
I jumped on the "contour" part only. Sorry about that.
So to exactly answer the question you asked, YES, I Do Hate The Contoured T's, they are ugly, very shabby quality, sound like crap and are a very poor value for the money. You can do a LOT better.
Sorry again for the confusion. Toby |
|
| |
|
Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7233
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Ooops I missed answering the other part of the question also...
No, I think the "T" is a brilliant guitar. It's an unintentional nod back to the original "Ultra" or in my case "Medallion" and some of the other early techniques. Offer a simple verion the higher end model. No bling, no fancy paint, just a guitar. I had one, and I'm sorry I sold it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 228
| I am so-o-o-o glad I came back (with hand covering my eyes, peeking through the fingers), for my experience with this forum has always been nothing but excellent (except when it has been superb), and I felt that, perhaps, I had transgressed, but that, even if I had, I had been met with more anger than I had deserved.
I am glad that the misunderstanding has been resolved.
And though this might seem redundant, I thank everyone again for the valued input. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
May 2009
Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | It's probably just the way I sit and hold the guitar, but I don't notice a difference physically between the contour, the mid depth and the deep bowl. Me either, but I thought that was just ME. |
|
| |
So, Do You Guys Hate the Contoured Ts?