Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???
lakehaus
Posted 2009-08-13 6:37 PM (#403194)
Subject: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 12

Location: Chesapeake, VA
I've grown accustom to bone saddles on my earlier acoustics and like the improvement in tone (please don't try to convince me otherwise). I did an initial search on the web and found nothing regarding this upgrade for Ovations.

Does anyone know of a vendor who can supply an upgrade for Ovation's saddle? I looked thru Colosi's site and saw nothing for Ovation.

Has anyone here made a bone (or other material) saddle for their Ovation? I'm willing to give it a go, but somehow the Ovation saddle system seems a bit more daunting than other straight forward platforms I've performed this upgrade to... (Taylor, Martin, Bourgeois, SCGC, Larrivee, Epiphone, Gibson...)

Thanks!


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BT717
Posted 2009-08-13 7:04 PM (#403195 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711

Location: Vernon CT
I cant personaly help you but others will be along shortly who might.

Thought I'd welcome you !!!!
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2ifbyC
Posted 2009-08-13 7:08 PM (#403196 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???
Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6268

Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast
Originally posted by BT717:
I cant personaly help you but others will be along shortly who might.

Thought I'd welcome you !!!!
Ditto! Sure would love to see more pics of that 'O' with the carved bridge... CL?
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GaryB
Posted 2009-08-13 7:19 PM (#403197 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2007
Posts: 494

Location: Location Location Location
Welcome to a great place! I put a bone saddle in my '81 1127, which is an all acoustic Ovation. It made a difference. More sustain, a richer sound for lack of more eloquence, and of course bone wears better, over time. I don't know how it would work through the pickup system.
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FlySig
Posted 2009-08-13 8:12 PM (#403198 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???



Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4049

Location: Utah
lake, welcome aboard!

The pickup is bonded to the bottom of the saddle, so you would have to get an aftermarket pickup plus a new saddle.
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jstout
Posted 2009-08-13 8:28 PM (#403199 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
June 2009
Posts: 67

Location: Texas
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m38.l1313&_nkw=guitar...

good luck
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lakehaus
Posted 2009-08-13 9:28 PM (#403200 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 12

Location: Chesapeake, VA
Wow! Thanks for the welcome, and I appreciate the initial input.

I've always preferred the "tone o' bone"... like I said, the Ovation saddle is not what I'm used to dealing with.

I'll be sure to keep you updated, if in fact I go thru with this operation...
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geneo
Posted 2009-08-13 11:40 PM (#403201 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 333

Location: east coast usa
just wanted to say hi lake considering your right down the street in chesapeake.
geneo
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lakehaus
Posted 2009-08-14 9:40 AM (#403202 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 12

Location: Chesapeake, VA
Originally posted by geneo:
just wanted to say hi lake considering your right down the street in chesapeake.
geneo
Thanks geneo... it's good to be here!

I'm pretty much discouraged by the news I've been getting about boning the saddle. The guitar does sound good enough, really... I'm just a tinkerer.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2009-08-14 10:04 AM (#403203 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
Originally posted by FlySig:
lake, welcome aboard!

The pickup is bonded to the bottom of the saddle, so you would have to get an aftermarket pickup plus a new saddle.
The saddle is not bonded to the pickup assembly. It sits over the piezo elements and can be easily removed and replaced.

I have a bone saddle on the pickup on my Custom Folklore. Ovation used to offer these as an upgrade for the original pickup. They are not cheap and I understand they were made in limited numbers, so they may not be available now. They also did a ceramic saddle too. Contact Kim or John, but make sure you're sitting down when they tell you the price.
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Gallerinski
Posted 2009-08-14 10:06 AM (#403204 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???
Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996

Location: Phoenix AZ
Hi Lake,

Personal opinion I think you're going to be disappointed with the minimal improvement vs. the trouble and cost involved.

Absolutely bone saddle makes huge difference and I think every one of my non ovation guitars has one. It's one of the best upgrades you can do. But Ovation acoustic electrics are a different beast. The ovation pickup consists of piezo crystals and goop that supports the bottom the saddle. To be honest this is why acoustic only ovations (and I have plenty) almost always sound better acoutically than their A/E counterparts. Yes it is possible to have custom bone individual saddle pieces made and fitted to the pickup assembly but the improvement, if any, is mostly nullified by the same old pickup interferring with a good solid bone to wood interface like on other guitars.

I own a number of bone saddled (non ovation) guitars and would never even consider one without a bone saddle. But I also own a number of ovations with and without pickups. Take this for what it's worth but I think you are wasting your time and money.

Just my opinion.

PS - if it doesn't have one already, I WOULD definately invest in a good custom bone nut.
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G8r
Posted 2009-08-14 10:09 AM (#403205 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969

Welcome, lakehaus. Bob Colosi makes custom saddles, nuts and pins from a variety of high-end materials, and his work is superb. Several here have worked with him for custom saddles and nuts for other guitar brands we own.

The major issue with your Custom Legend is that like all Ovation A/E saddles the piezo pickup is attached to the saddle (what we call the PU assy). You'd have to put in an after-market pickup, like the one described in this thread .

EDIT: Looks like Toby posted while I was writing. I agree with him about the marginal improvement you might get vs. the time/energy/cost, and you'd do better with a bone nut. Check with Colosi about those, too.
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Paul Templeman
Posted 2009-08-14 10:17 AM (#403206 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
February 2002
Posts: 5750

Location: Scotland
I made a recording of my custom Folklore with a regular plastic saddle pickup and with the custom bone version. Acoustically and through mikes there was very little difference. The surprise was the biggest difference was plugged in when the bone saddle sounded noticibly better than the stock version. Is it worth the expense and effort on an original Ovation pickup? Probably not. A bone nut is definately worth doing though if the guitar has a standard molded delrin nut.
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moody, p.i.
Posted 2009-08-14 10:30 AM (#403207 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15665

Location: SoCal
+1 on what Temp and Tup said. It's the straight story....
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Damon67
Posted 2009-08-14 12:04 PM (#403208 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???



Joined:
December 2006
Posts: 6994

Location: Jet City
I agree with the general consensus. It's just too damned difficult to upgrade the saddles to bone.

I guess the guitar's just junk now. I'll give ya $50 for it.
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lakehaus
Posted 2009-08-14 8:33 PM (#403209 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 12

Location: Chesapeake, VA
Originally posted by Damon67:
I agree with the general consensus. It's just too damned difficult to upgrade the saddles to bone.

I guess the guitar's just junk now. I'll give ya $50 for it.
Yep... I like challenges if the end result is worth it. Apparently it's not in this case.

$50? That and your Vox MIE AC15 and you have a deal!
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Auriemma
Posted 2009-08-15 7:12 AM (#403210 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???



Joined:
October 2008
Posts: 639

Location: NW of Philadelphia
Hi Lakehaus, I see you found us. Like I said, the crew here knows their O's.
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Beal
Posted 2009-08-15 8:39 AM (#403211 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???



Joined:
January 2002
Posts: 14127

Location: 6 String Ranch
OK, the real story.
Temp has got it right.

They are available, have the service dept get them for you or have some made for you. They used to be $100 a saddle, probably more than that now.
I think it's worth it sound wise. So does Debanjo, in fact it was his idea in the first place back in 1983 to have a bone saddle made for the pickup.
They have also made some ceramic ones and they are very close in sound to bone.

So there's your answer and welcome.
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Albert190
Posted 2009-08-15 3:56 PM (#403212 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
July 2009
Posts: 26

I have an Ovation Adamas 1681 that appears to have the same kind of saddle as Lakehaus' Al Di Meola Custom Legend.

I, too, was thinking about having a replacement bone saddle fabricated for my Ovation and actually spoke to Bob Colosi (mentioned above in this thread), who makes custom saddles, about it.

I was told that the saddle in my Ovation Adamas if duplicated in bone, would probably dampen the bass somewhat, due to the size of the saddle, which is much larger than the thin saddles used in more conventional guitars.
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Albert190
Posted 2009-08-15 4:01 PM (#403213 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
July 2009
Posts: 26

I, too, had been interested in switching over to a bone saddle for my Ovation, an Adamas 1681, which appears to have the same type of saddles as Lakehaus' Al Di Meola Custom Legend.

I appoached Bob Colosi, who makes custom bone saddles and who is mentioned above in this thread, about the idea, but was told that the saddle in my Ovation, being much larger than the thinner saddles in more conventional guitars, would probably cause the bass to be dampened, if fabricated in bone.
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keven
Posted 2009-08-17 11:16 AM (#403214 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 70

Location: kansas
I whittled this into my Celeb:
TUSQ 1/4" Saddle Slab
Product #: PQ-9025-00
Price: $15.50

I had to
1) add a pocket on the bottom using a dremel
2) added a shim in front of of the saddle to make it fit the wideth(about 5/16")
3) angled the top break from the bass to the treble end

it was a bit of work, but the tonal increase was worth it!

this saddle might be a better fit and would only require modifying the bottom with a groove:

TUSQ Acoustic Saddle Adjustable Gibson
Product #: PQ-9016-00
Price: $15.50
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lakehaus
Posted 2009-08-18 9:29 AM (#403215 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 12

Location: Chesapeake, VA
Hmmmm... interesting. Thanks for the encouraging input!

Got any pics of the finished product?? And could you PM or state the supply source for the saddle?

My questions on your process:

1) Add a pocket to the saddle or the bridge?
2) From what material was the shim?
3) You matched the neck radius, right?

Originally posted by keven:
I whittled this into my Celeb:
TUSQ 1/4" Saddle Slab
Product #: PQ-9025-00
Price: $15.50

I had to
1) add a pocket on the bottom using a dremel
2) added a shim in front of of the saddle to make it fit the wideth(about 5/16")
3) angled the top break from the bass to the treble end

it was a bit of work, but the tonal increase was worth it!

this saddle might be a better fit and would only require modifying the bottom with a groove:

TUSQ Acoustic Saddle Adjustable Gibson
Product #: PQ-9016-00
Price: $15.50
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keven
Posted 2009-08-18 11:04 AM (#403216 - in reply to #403194)
Subject: Re: Ovation Custom Legend Saddle Upgrade???


Joined:
February 2004
Posts: 70

Location: kansas
Got any pics of the finished product??

I was working on a web page with pictures of the saddle but its still in work...
If your have some time: loosen(or remove) the strings and remove the plastic saddle. From the the side it will look like a house with a semi-circular tunnel running thru it. The
curved part sets on something like silicon that covers the wire that is soldered to each of the six tranducer elements. there's thin leg-like members in the front and back that hold the saddle in place. (Someone said these 'legs' are why this saddle works so good)

state the supply source for the saddle?
I've seen these saddles on Ebay..
I got mine at a local guitar store. It's Tusq, but if you could get a 5/16" wide slab of bone, that would work, too.

My questions on your process:

1) Add a pocket to the saddle or the bridge?


to the saddle to fit over the wire covered with silicon(more like a groove)...

2) From what material was the shim?
old credit card.. the bridge slot is 5/16" wide
the transducers a little less than 1/4" wide... my saddle 'stands' on the transducers

3) You matched the neck radius, right??
yes, I filed the saddle string break until each string sat at my desired height.
BTW - I removed all of the Shims(3)

the Ovation manual has a picture to go with this:
The Ovation Bridges
The Ovation bridges found on our Roundback guitars are designed to take full advantage of the unique construction of our instruments. Thinner in design, the bridges help transmit the string vibrations more efficiently. "Standard action" for all Ovation steel string guitars is 6/64" at the bass E string and 4/64" at the treble E string (measured as the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the 12th fret). This action is nor mally achieved with 1-3 shims beneath the saddle. These settings were chosen to suit the requirements of a broad range of players. If you wish to change the action, however, use the follow ing procedures:

1. Loosen or remove the strings.

2. Remove the saddle carefully. This is a delicate operation particularly if you have an acoustic-electric model. Be certain not to pull or force the wiring beneath the saddle.

3. For lower than standard action, remove the shim beneath the saddle. Removing one shim will lower the action by 1/64" at the 12th fret.

and this is some more words about the Ovation saddle:
"They have a saddle (the white piece(s)) like most other guitars. They can be removed carefully with plyers, if necessary. Under the saddle is a bunch of complex electronic stuff, but he can adjust the saddle as necessary without affecting the pickup.

The reason, imho, that the standard Ovation pick-up works so well is that the saddle system takes the load of the string pressure to the sides of the aluminium channel that the whole shebang sits in. There is virtually no direct string pressure on the crystals, unlike other under-saddle pick-up systems, and they vibrate more freely and equally in the silicon rubber."

later...
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