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Location: Michigan | so far in my lifetime i figure that it has cost me a negative $100.000.000.000 million seven hundred fifty six thousand and some change.
for all of the hours of playing setting up traveling ,, i am working for about a negative $150.000.00 dollars an hour.
time spent playing/practicing @ per hour $20.00 hr
equipment costs = ?
time spent traveling= ?
money made for playing= $0.00
man is this guitar stuff expensive.......but worth it. GWB |
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Location: Ohio | I play a Celebrity Dlx..............What do YOU think???
Steve |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I won $50 at Amelia Island last spring. I was using a borrowed guitar, so that's pure profit. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | You might be looking at it from the wrong angle, gwb. The question is how do you make a small fortune with a guitar?
Start with a large fortune (and catch OFC GAS). |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Does this include garage bands as a teenager? |
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Location: closely held secret | Does this include getting paid for not playing? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Lifetime income is different from net profit. I don't do it to make money, so I can't count the time spent playing or practicing. As far as income, that's easy--zero. |
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Location: Michigan | i did include my earnings for garage band concerts colin $ 0.00 $ but lots of fun . GWB |
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Location: Yalova/Turkey | Citation The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel: "Does this include getting paid for not playing?" >>>> That´s the way I earn my money :)
But sometimes they throw buckets full of water instead of coins :(
If you want to join the club (of water throwers) listen to: Weekend on http://ovationfanclub.ning.com/profile/ChristopherKubaseck |
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Location: south east Michigan | Like Dave... $50 from Amelia a year and a half ago.(Which was immediaty parsed out at the Huddle House).
And a buck-fifty from my recent busking adventure.
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Location: Flahdaw | Money spent on instruments and accessories....$ thousands
Money made from playing instruments...almost $0
The pure pleasure of being able to play the guitar....priceless |
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Location: East Tennessee | We're supposed to make $$$$$ ??? :D |
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Location: Citizen of the Galaxy | It's called "playing", not "working" guitar. |
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Location: NJ | cash? well I am so far in the hole it is not funny
but does getting sex from an appreciative female fan count? |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Three-hour school dances in the 60's . . . $100 split four ways.
One to three songs for weddings in the 70's . . . $100.
An occasional back-up accompaniment gig for a touring group in the 90's . . . scale, about $100 for two hours.
One song about a redhead at Amelia in 2009 . . . $100.
40 years of gigs and the money hasn't changed. |
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Location: Michigan | sounds to me like this amelia is the place to make some big bucks playing.maybe al can get his payment there also. :D GWB |
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Location: Michigan | About a buck fifty less than Brad had in his case.
Does getting paid not to play count? |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I won $50 at Amelia Island last spring. I was using a borrowed guitar, so that's pure profit. I won $100 at Amelia '08...immediately bought a 12 string set of walnut tuner buttons from Temp...so much for that... :D |
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| So far: $0. Working towards a goal of eventually getting paid for playing guitar: priceless!
Michelle |
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| It's really just a hobby, so I give what ever I make from it to my kids. |
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Location: Utah | If I can make enough with the new band to pay for the strings and picks that are consumed playing in the band, I'll consider it a success. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by alpep:
cash? well I am so far in the hole it is not funny
but does getting sex from an appreciative female fan count? It counts for much more, unless you marry her. Then it shifts back over into the expense column. |
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Location: SW Washington | If I totaled it all up I am sure it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $58.23 over the last 40 years... WOW that is over a dollar a YEAR!!! I had no idea this gig was that lucrative! Maybe I should try to raise my horizons a bit and shoot for $2.00 a year? Well, you know, I can always dream, right? |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | ..Actual $$ received from paying gigs: <$100
..Actual joy received from the smiling faces in
the Rest Home audience: PRICELESS.
...I'm being well paid. |
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Location: NJ | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Originally posted by alpep:
cash? well I am so far in the hole it is not funny
but does getting sex from an appreciative female fan count? It counts for much more, unless you marry her. Then it shifts back over into the expense column. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Since my first "gig" was our wedding, I don't think I could ever make enough to balance out the expenses. She did pay for part of the Matrix, so that I could play it at the wedding, though. (And all of the OFC guitar for my birthday/30th Anniversary.)
I probably should admit that for the first couple of years SWMBO made more money than I did, so that "gig" supported me for a couple years. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | While I don't have a clue as to a "lifetime" number... I don't think I've played a "free" gig since 1975. Most paid cash, but usually it was a combination of food, drink, even lodging sometimes.
Maybe it's the genre, but in rock bands, if you aren't getting paid and really even if you are, it's been my experience that you put out a bucket or box for tips right next to the "sign-up for our newsletter" sheet. Actually I remember some paid parties, where the tip bucket ended up with much more than the few hundred we were getting paid for the gig.
Maybe I just don't get it.. but unless it's just playing with friends or some friendly get-together... why on earth would you let some establishment (club, restaurant) make money off YOUR talents and get nothing for it?
I do understand some people just do not want to get paid for their art... that's fine.. take the money and give it to a charity, or your church, or even the homeless guy in the alley... but why on earth would you give it to the venue for free. I got nothing against venue's making money... But using someone else's talent to profit is just wrong and illegal in most Northern states since about 1865 :) |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | When the nursing homes offer to pay, I tell them to save their entertainment buget to use on getting yet another person/group to come in. When I play for the Mammoth Site fundraiser every year, I do it for free even though they offer to pay me. After all, it is a fundraiser, so that is my contribution.
But Miles is right, if it is a bar or a restaurant, they should pay you. I will gladly donate my time to a worthy cause, but I don't consider bars and restaurants worthy causes. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I got $107 worth of Busker Money sitting in a pile right here on my desk... :p
That's pretty much all that I have made.
So I ain't getting rich doing it... But I can grab a Coffee to celebrate.
I'm sure that I have spent some and made more, cuz all the change in in a coffee can or I used the quarters for Laundry. But most of the paper money is on my desk. There is some in assorted guitar cases too...
Do I have to claim that on my Taxes? |
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Location: VENISE-EN-QUEBEC CANADA | made 1.10 $ when a friend walk buy and said hey Dan didnt no you play guitar + many cheer'd me and my wife at her parent's 50th anivesery when whe playe'd music that was (heart warming)
as for money spent it's FAR better than drug's and booze
Daniel |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
When the nursing homes offer to pay, I tell them to save their entertainment buget to use on getting yet another person/group to come in. When I play for the Mammoth Site fundraiser every year, I do it for free even though they offer to pay me. After all, it is a fundraiser, so that is my contribution.
But Miles is right, if it is a bar or a restaurant, they should pay you. I will gladly donate my time to a worthy cause, but I don't consider bars and restaurants worthy causes. + 1 all counts..
And I know I'm gonna tread on some toes here, and I'm sure there are some really fun legit "open mic" nights.. but in general... biggest scam going. I have heard on more than one occasion from owner/managers "why should I pay for music when I can get the same musicians to come in a play for free" |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Ah...open mic. I DO go to them, and I usually play a song or two, but my main reason for going is to take my students so they can get a taste of what it's like to be on stage, sing into a mic, and look out at the audience. When I HOST an open mic, I get paid or I won't do it. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Open mikes can be viewed as a scam, but they serve a purpose.....experience playing in front of a crowd. Really can't be replicated any other way. If you think you want to be a professional musician, what an avenue to test your resolve. Yeah, the bar draws a crowd and sells some beer, but they SHOULD get something for offering this opportunity for free. If they were real slimeballs, they would charge for letting you play. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We had a coffee shop here that offered on Craigslist to let acoustic guitarists play. There was a firestorm of replies from alleged musicians, similar to what Miles posted, but not as polite.
I was more of the view that it would be an opportunity for me to get some experience, but I even had too much anxiety to follow up on that. I can understand a professional think it's a scam, but I can also understand from my view that the only one benefitting might be me, unless I'd get booed. Then I'd have to say "You get what you pay for." |
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Location: Flahdaw | Well, plus the fact, no one is going to "open mikes" to hear the great music. The bar is full of the players and maybe a few of their friends. They have some drinks while they wait their turn. How is this different from Kareoke? Or ladies night? Why should bars make money off of guys hoping to pick up chicks on ladies night? Scam? |
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Location: on the web | Yes, a venue owner attracts a paying crowd to an open mic and does not have to pay the musicians. But for a lot of musicians just starting out, especially acoustic guitarists, that's a fine way to hone you performance skills and/or try out new material without the pressure of being the main (or only) draw. Without an open mic, they would be confined to busking, itself a noble pursuit, but not the same as a (semi) captive audience. I know a number of people who've scored paying gigs because of their open mic performances. |
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Location: Utah | We're plotting to play an open mic in the next month. One of the local venues gives 30 minute slots. For us it is a chance to play in front of some people and to work out the kinks on stage. Kind of a dress rehearsal. I figure we're getting something out of it. Otherwise, I won't play for free at a business.
The places that have open mic nights do get some flack on C-List. But really it isn't the same kind or level of entertainment found with a paid band. Someone mention karaoke, and I agree with that analogy. People show up either because they know one of the performers or to see what kind of crash/burn happens. |
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Location: Omaha, NE | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
And I know I'm gonna tread on some toes here, and I'm sure there are some really fun legit "open mic" nights.. but in general... biggest scam going. Yep.
Open mic's seem to be built on the myth that the average amateur wanker is worth listening to.
They are not. And as such, the odds of developing an audience other than other open mic-ers and their friends is small. Nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. But it is what it is: A glorified campfire circle singalong.
At worst, open mic's devolve into a series of no-talents praising other no-talents in exchange for reciprocal praise of equal value.
But as to the question, I'm pretty fortunate. I play at mass every week, and the pastor and I have an informal agreement that my playing serves as my weekly contribution. Given what I would otherwise be expected to donate, that works out pretty well.
But for playing out in bars and such, never made much. And it seems like there is always just one more piece of gear that we need, so the expenses have a way of always keeping up with the income. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | As mentioned.. there ARE some VERY legit reasons for doing open mic gigs. Exposure, fun, getting a feel for it to see if you can do it... etc.. all good.. There are also clubs that just take advantage of many musicians inherit good will and willingness to play.
Another aspect is to think of your fellow musicians who ARE professionals. I know of a situation where there is a fairly good local part-time band (they all have day jobs) that gets booked all the time, in all the best venues... CAUSE THEY DO IT FOR FREE... hence.. THEY get the gigs and any other bands can only get whats left... so they basically leave the area to get work if they are any good. That's kinda sad.
I'm not against open mics, or even playing for free.. Just don't get taken advantage of and have fun. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Getting back to the original topic of this thread....I think most of us on this forum are older and have done fairly well for ourselves. We're not much interested in trying to earn money playing our music. I played in bars while going to college....I don't want to do it now. I get much more out of playing in front of friends and having them say "that was great."
That said, if I was 20 again, I would do the open mics as often as I could. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | The Cool open-mic things that I've been to (the only ones) we in the "Coffee Houses" in the 70's.
Usually it was in a church. The coffee and crackers and cake and stuff were Donations only, and they had a stage with assorted semi-acoustic artists playing for free or for tips.
The Harvard Square Church of Christ (est. 1686) did this for Decades. It wasn't proselytizing, you could play any kind of music you wanted providing it was tasteful.
They did this as a community service. A nice cheap/free place to go for adults, teens, college kids, and the like. Ah... The good-old Daze!
Now, The Biggest SCAM in music is the "Battle Of The Bands!"
Where they get Dozens of wannabe professional bands to play for weeks on end. For Free!
They the finally give the winner a coupla hunnert bucks worth of studio time, and a chance to go on the the State-wide Battle-of-the-Bands SCAM! :mad:
And they don't even give them guys free beer! The idea is for the bands and their supporters to spend money.
So if you have four or five bands on Friday Night (with their 'significant others' and supporters)...
You are guaranteed 200 customers! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Old Man Arthur... don't even get me started on the Battle of Bands scam. You are soooo right. Took me a couple before I figured it out. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Your experiences have convinced me to keep my day job.
I did have a great time playing for whoever would listen in the hotel bar in Rothenburg with Karl. He said busking was illegal without a license, but one of our group gave him some pocket change for gas money. They didn't give me anything, but I got to play Karl's #47RI for hours. That was worth a lot. Karl has my permission to post the video, but he might not want to be heard with me. |
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Location: ms | What i do sometimes if its a gig i really want is offer to give them an hour free. If they want to book me after that fine if not i go to the next place. Some of the bigger things i do that come around once a year i started out by doing the first year free but these have been well worth it. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Your experiences have convinced me to keep my day job.
Karl. He said busking was illegal without a license, but one of our group gave him some pocket change for gas money.
... differs from town t`town .. usually in Germany playing out is " free-wheelin " ..
Vic |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by gulfcoast:
What i do sometimes if its a gig i really want is offer to give them an hour free. If they want to book me after that fine if not i go to the next place. Some of the bigger things i do that come around once a year i started out by doing the first year free but these have been well worth it. Demo-Tape .. ehr .. Demo-CD ..
Vic
... so many rules .. regulations .. soon ye`ll need a " barrister " for every turn ye take ..
Vic |
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Location: ms | Most places down where i live don`t even look at a demo/promo pac what they really want is to see you live. So myspace with a video or heck i`m standing here talking to the guy how about i just sit down and play a bit. I`ll give you a for instance, the Shed in Ocean Springs Mississipppi a great place to play. I dropped them a demo a couple of times, talked to Brad the owner a few times,nothing. I was down there to see 3KD play and the guitar player asked if i wanted to play a short set while they took a break. I played, Brad walked up to me after and booked me for the following Friday night. Sometimes it pays to give a litte to get a little. |
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Location: Flahdaw | The Shed....I would play there just for free BBQ |
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Location: big island | (whatchit! careful how you answer this. gwb might be an IRS agent.) |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | (whatchit! careful how you answer this. gwb might be an IRS agent.) Not to worry Randy...this is a bbs...it's all marketing spoo...LOL |
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Location: Upper Left USA | I've probably spent several thousands of dollars so I could make a couple of hundred. Toss in a bunch of "All you can eat" occasions and it just about breaks even. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Miles wrote: Maybe I just don't get it.. but unless it's just playing with friends or some friendly get-together... why on earth would you let some establishment (club, restaurant) make money off YOUR talents and get nothing for it? I played many Open Mic nights while living and working in Nashville in the early '90's...The Bluebird Cafe, The Bell Cove Club, etc...
It is (was and probably still is) the way it is in Nashville...due to the number of pickers/writers/wanna-be's, it's hard to find a paying gig in Nashville although, fortunately, I was able to several times. The other side of the open mic's is the free exposure...in Nashville networking is all important and getting a foot in the door or getting heard and viewed by the industry folks is something money can't buy...I personally had a blast and met some great people...and the industry folks hang out at the bigger open mic's in Nashville... |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Slightly off topic, following on what Mishka said.
At a seminar I attended once Steve Bogard (current pres. NSAI among other things) related that he formed a wedding band when he moved to Nashville to keep the wolves at bay. Most musicians in Nashville, it seems, don't care to spend a lot of nights playing I Knew The Bride When She Used To Rock & Roll or We've Only Just Begun. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I spent 18 years on the road; mostly full time 24-7-365...I made good money for the times and was able to buy great equipment; a nice van to travel in; and gasoline, food, etc. to keep it all rolling...I didn't own a home, no family at that time, and spent way too much for "party favors"...I had a good time playing music for a living for all those years, saw a lot of the country, played some golf, and survived!
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would not trade what I have now for any of that...family is worth everything to me...but I am glad I had the opportunity at the time... |
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Location: Chicago | Net Profit: a lifetime of Joy! |
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Location: Indiana | A buck fiddy... |
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Location: Michigan | holy smokes we are all going broke from playing these crazy plastic guitars :eek: :eek: :eek:GWB |
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| So for those of you who are down on the whole open mike thing, what do you suggest to someone who lacks experience and is trying to break into performing in front of the public?
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle |
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Location: Novi, MI | Shoot... I've made nothing also... have done two gigs only... both non paying just to get any stage fright out.
I am working on getting a couple of paying gigs hopefully... Maybe in a year or two I'll break even. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | I'm definitely into negative territory on this one ...
Since I've spent more time being married or engaged in serial monagamy, I reckon I'm in negative territory on the getting laid part too. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
So for those of you who are down on the whole open mike thing, what do you suggest to someone who lacks experience and is trying to break into performing in front of the public?
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle Don't worry about the naysayers....go ahead and do some open mics....it's great experience. And like TUS said, someone might see and hear you and want to hire you.
Open mics can't "depress the wages" any more so than the crappy economy in general. |
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| Originally posted by darkbarguitar:
Don't worry about the naysayers....go ahead and do some open mics....it's great experience. Agreed. It's how I've been getting over stage fright after almost 30 years of not playing out. You also get audience feedback on what works and doesn't for when a paying gig comes along. I just wish we had more acoustic open mics around my town. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Michelle, go to as many open mics as you can! Like I said, I take my students to them so they can get a feel for what it's like to have all those people looking at you :eek: , you find out how to work your voice with a microphone (it's quite different from singing without one.), and if your lucky there will be someone in the audience who will give you HONEST feedback on your performance. And remember, they are going to hold open mic's whether you go to them or not, so don't worry about cutting into anyone's profit. |
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| Allison, I've done open mikes about three times. Was terrible all three times and have pretty much backed away from them for a long time. People keep asking me when I am going to play again, but I just don't feel ready. I watch people all the time at them, though. I am really intimated by those who show up.
Some days I wonder if I'll play guitar good enough to get out of the living room! :D
Michelle |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | What you need to do is go to a lot of jam sessions. Just pick one person, watch their fingers, and try to follow along. When there is a roomful, no one can hear your mistakes. You will have to change chords quickly, and even if you can't keep up, each time you try you get a little better. And as far as practising goes, several short sessions a day is better than one long one. And make sure you aren't practicing your mistakes! If there is a part of a song you have trouble with, don't just skim over it and then go on to the easy part. Break the song down into little chunks and learn them right. Play the song as slowly as you need to to get the hard part right, and eventually without realizing it, you will get faster.
Or better yet, take a ride out here to the Hills and we'll play together. ;) |
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Location: Flahdaw | Michelle, another thing to do is to videotape yourself...can be as un-nerving as playing publicly....maybe more so. I would rather play in front of strangers than play in front of a camera for some reason. But it will really give you good feedback on your performance qualities (or lack thereof). I can barely stand to watch myself, but I learn something from it everytime. |
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Location: Michigan | i wonder why anyone would think open mike nights or battle of the bands are bad for anyone??
most comedians all started out by getting seen at open mike nights that lead them into showbiz.
robin williams
billy crystal ect.....
in the sixties all of the haight ashbury hippies were playing for free at every opportunity you could get.
greatfull dead
mama's and the papas ect......
in the nineties a fellow who was busing tables and flipping burgers at the local bar down the block from me was doing battle of the rappers every weekend night for free until someone spotted him and put him on the charts.his name is marshall mathers or otherwise known as m & m.
as far as people getting used for free entertainment well thats the artists personal call.
i used to love to go and see and participate in the battle of the bands ,( and yes the lousey garage bands that we were ) it was whoever had the most friends show up won it.
i think there a great idea for everyone.GWB |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
Allison, I've done open mikes about three times... I am really intimated by those who show up. Side story-- I just got done watching "Woodstock, then and now" on the tube.
CSN were on stage saying, "This is the second time we've played together and we are scared s***less."
Years later, it was revealed, "We weren't scared of the 400 Thousand people in front of us... But off-stage to the side of us were the Jefferson Airplane and The Who! Those were the people we were scared of."
That being said, I still don't think that I play well enough to be allowed out in public.
So when I feel brave, I give it a shot anyway. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Yeah, that was kinda my point. When I play in front of strangers I'm not worried....I know I'm better than THEY are. But when I play in front of a camera, I have to impress MYSELF. That's tough.
Michelle, find an open mic that attracts really crappy players. Then you won't feel intimidated and you'll be great. |
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Location: Phoenix | I personally take a dim view of the "open mic" nights here in Nashville. I got roped into participating in one about ten years ago, our band leader said "it would get us exposure and practice" or words to that effect. Exposure...to who? The only folks in the bar were other musicians who were playing for free, and their friends/families. There weren't any managers, agents, or any other folks of importance. Looked to me like a way for the bar owner to get customers (the friends/families of the free entertainment) without giving up a dime.
As far as "practice", most of us in that band had played out already, a few rehearsals were all we needed....So I was bummed out on the whole experience.
For those folks who have never played out in public, *perhaps* it may help, but there are other opportunities for those just starting out. Play at friend's parties for example; just drag your guitar along, somebody will want you to play it. Or play in church. Or play at jam nights as others have suggested (though personally I can't get no satisfaction from being in a group of fifty pickers).
Back to the original question, maybe I've grossed a few thousand (bar gigs don't pay much here). Net, I'm probably still in the hole by a couple grand. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | It did spark-of Bob D`s career , without them open mic`s ( in NY ) who knows ..
Overhere , a couple o` decades ago , a young American with axe and small amp. came on the street , with a youn Dane armed with a tom on a stand , they played for a few weeks , and then he said that he would form a band ..
They disappeared , only to surface the summer after on the Big Stage at " Roskilde Festival "
( Woodstock equivalent .. audience was 70.000 ) .. ye think I`m joking ?..
The Band`s name was " Sharing Patrol " and appeared on TV too.
" Persevere and have Patience !!! "
Vic |
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Location: Michigan | i don't get it , agents and managers go to bars and resturants just like real people like you and me.they are not some special breed that only hangs out in certain places?
a good successful agent should be in any local or known establishment to seek out talent.
most of the old talent was found in these places.
GWB |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Yeah, but agents and such are Lazy nowadays.
Once again... Before The Music Dies...
Click >full movie... |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Arthur , Yer being CRYPTICAL ... `tho I love Erykah Badu ....The B`ooful Queen of Blues Bro`s 2 .. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
i don't get it , agents and managers go to bars and resturants just like real people like you and me.they are not some special breed that only hangs out in certain places?
a good successful agent should be in any local or known establishment to seek out talent.
most of the old talent was found in these places.
GWB People are people , even them Alien species Yer talkin` `bout , who would n`t know Talent when it bites `em in the bee-hind .. I know of several who did sum Bitin` ...
Vic |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
what do you suggest to someone who lacks experience and is trying to break into performing in front of the public? I guess it depends on what you'd like to do... but assuming the 'ol guitar player/singer thing...
Approach it like you are a pro. Work up a set and practice it till you're comfortable. Video yourself doing the set from start to finish treating the camera as your audience.. talk to it, tell it a joke... whatever. It's your eyes.. Watch, rinse, repeat..
Rather than exposing yourself to the scrutiny of a bunch of other musicians, just worry about you. Find a venue that looks like it might be fun to have someone playing a guitar and singing a few songs. Put out a bucket for tips if you can. Maybe someplace that already has that going... a coffee house maybe.. and offer your services to a band that plays there to play on their break, or maybe open for them. Don't forget your tip jar. And remember, this is entertainment... even the tip bucket should reflect your personality. A hat, a kangaroo with it's pocket open.. etc.. Just because you are a rookie doesn't mean you have to act like one. Remember, these are all strangers.. they don't know the difference if you have been playing for years or it's your first gig... unless you tell them.. so don't.
8
As a last resort, you might also offer to do your show for friends. The reason I say last resort is that the LAST people you want to play for are people who will tell you that you are good, no matter what. Hey, you might be really good.. which is fine... but if you aren't.. you don't need friends telling you that you are.
If you play for strangers, you are on a level playing field. They don't know you, you don't know them. A great opportunity to forge a 45 minute-ish relationship. Sometimes it will be great, sometimes it will utterly suck. But in either case you won't have to ask "how was i"... you will know. If you leave a gig not knowing how you did... you're at the wrong venue.
Remember to have fun, be entertaining, and people will either like you or not. It's pretty simple. If they don't like you... oh well.. doesn't mean the next crowd won't think you're the best thing they have ever heard. As long as you are having fun, doing your best.. that's all that counts.
Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle [/QB] YES.. At least if you offer to play as an opening act, or even if you just play for tips, you are doing it for YOU.
I realize there are A FEW (very few) open mic nights that are fun I guess.. To me the thought of doing one or two songs is terrifying. Back to that "relationship." I'd rather spend some time with an audience, get to try and entertain them. I might not be successful, but at least I got a fair shake at it. Playing a couple songs at an open mic I guess only proves you can play a couple of songs at an open mic night.
But don't let me be misundastood (Thanks Pink). If you WANT to do an open mic, just for giggles... DO IT!!! There's nothing inherently wrong with it. And if there is an open mic night, you showing up or not will not change the fact that the venue is getting a night of entertainment for free. As a single performer, you have no affect on the "helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession."
As a musician starting out... at least for me.. the pressure of a live audience was enough... having an audience full of musicians gives me shivers to this day. |
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Location: everywhere | Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
And do you think that open mikes are helping depress the wages of those who perform music as a profession?
Michelle An interesting point. Open mike nights can be a ruse by venue owners to get free entertainment, so it could be seen as supporting what you suggest. On the other hand the majority of open mics take place on quiet midweek nights when a pro would be unecomomical unless they were popular enough to draw a crowd and/or stand a cover charge. The better organized open mics usually pay a pro or semi-pro to run the show anyway. I don't think there are many pro musicians blaming open mics for lack of work or low wages.
A noble thought, but I wouldn't let it stop you trying your hand. Even a badly organised open mic is good for your learning curve, and the better ones can be great. |
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Location: everywhere | edit - accidental post |
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| Caravan and Miles, thanks!
Where I go, you are allowed a 5 song set, and sometimes you can go as long as 15 minutes.
I put so much pressure on myself that I don't actually enjoy the experience. I really have to get over that. I want to do something with my music, like touch people's hearts and minds. I've thought about playing at church, but I'm not at that level yet.
The most fun I've had recently is noodling around and listening to Alun Davies on "Father and Son".
Michelle |
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| Originally posted by Guitarzannie:
I put so much pressure on myself that I don't actually enjoy the experience. You're far more judgmental on yourself than anyone else will be. "There's a reason they call it playing music." It's supposed to be fun. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Any opportunity to play along with others is also helpful and rewarding. If you screw up, they still continue and you can get right back into it, often with little notice or negative fanfare. If you're playing or performing by yourself, a similar mistake can leave you pretty well exposed. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | GitZan : ..
Let`s start at the beginning ..
What is it that YOU want to achieve ??
Do Ye wanna be Heard ?? ..
Do Ye wanna be Seen ..
Are YOU Good Enough to be Heard .. Seen .. ?!.. Ya Think ? ..
YESS Ya Do !! .. ( or ya would n`t be thinkin` of it !! )
A Little ( very little ) Advice !!
Ye take a mirror ( Instant Feedback ) .. and Ye play that Git. , singin`them pipes o` yers , while lookin` into said mirror , makin` Faces , and Ye Find when Ya look Good ! .. if in case , get help ( with make-up and such ) from sisters/sisters in law , Ma , aunty sweet or ...
Ya take it from there !!
Ye LEARN .. Fallin`, and .. Gettin`up ..
FIVE Songs and Yer in Business !!! ..
.. come on girl , YOU CAN DO IT !!! ..
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Location: Nashville TN. | Originally posted by alpep:
cash? well I am so far in the hole it is not funny
but does getting sex from an appreciative female fan count? Yes it does |
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| Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Any opportunity to play along with others is also helpful and rewarding. well exposed. Yep, and that's why I'm making my way to the ladies gathering. That and get the ability to get my hands on a Tornado and a Patriot!
Michelle |
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Location: Utah | I find that I am much more concerned about disappointing my bandmates than disappointing the audience. Bandmates know when I screw up, the audience doesn't.
I told the singer that I used to be a perfectionist but it wasn't healthy. Now I'm working on imperfection!
As far as depressing wages, around here it is not an issue. Mostly, there are no wages to depress. The kind of places that have open mics would never be able to pay for entertainment. The big clubs want high quality and therefore don't do open mics.
Many venues are pay-to-play, where the band has to bring an audience and then gets a cut of ticket money. But if you don't bring your 20 people, you don't play.
Consequently, many amateur musicians will play open mics simply as a way to play in public without the stress of having to get their friends to buy tickets. |
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Location: Michigan | flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused:
is idaho a part of the u.s.a. :confused: GWB |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Idaho is what America was, but Flysig is from Utah. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | You are ready when the Pressure is Dim.. |
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Location: Michigan | it has been a bad few weeks for me so forgive the messed up blogs by this guy:rolleyes: GWB |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | I know GWB , my sincere Condolences ..
Vic |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Idaho is what America was, but Flysig is from Utah. Utah is what America thought it was in 1950. In a good way. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused: GWB The bars around here are private clubs. Well, they used to be, but that's a long story. The larger clubs that have live music pay the band. There is typically a cover charge to get in. It is pretty much like anyplace else, except that there are fewer clubs and patrons because 55% of the state's population doesn't drink due to their religious requirements.
Which means that clubs don't pay very well in general.
It also means that there are a lot of musicians who won't play in a bar due to religious convictions. There is a shortage of bars to play in if you are not LDS, and an excess of musicians who are looking for non-bar gigs.
Other than bars and some restaurants, all of the other venues are pay-to-play. The upside to Utah is that there is a whole lot of good music going on, and a relatively large number of venues. The venues are concert facilities ranging from small room to full auditorium. The downside is that the musicians have to sell their own tickets. The venue will have tickets for sale at the door, too. They keep track of which act the ticket is purchased for.
For example, at your typical venue on a Friday night there will be 3 or 4 acts performing. Each act will have to pre-sell 20 tickets in order to play. The band will twitter, email, text, and Myspace all of their friends and fans to try to sell those 20 tickets. Tickets are usually $7 to $10 each. If you don't sell all the tickets, you can cough up the cash yourself, or you can hope that a few fans buy tickets at the door.
Once you sell the required tickets, usually 20, the venue will split 25% to 50% of the remaining sales with you. So you get nothing if you only sell 20 tickets. If you sell 30 tickets, you might walk away with $50 at the end of the night. Plus tips, plus merch sales.
Usually the act that sells the most tickets will get their choice of when to play. The other acts choose in descending order when to play. About a half hour before the show starts, the first band sets up and does sound check. Everyone is texting/tweeting/emailing their fans to tell them when they are on.
It is a crazy system where the venue owners have offloaded most of the marketing, publicity, and ticket sales onto the artists.
The coffee shop or bar open mic is becoming more popular and more controversial. Artists hate selling their own tickets all the time, so they are happy to invite their 20 friends to a coffee shop, book store, or bar to hear them play for an hour. They aren't getting paid, but they wouldn't have made much at a venue either. The open mic is stress free. |
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Location: Budd Lake, NJ | Most of my guitar life I haven't been paid for playing out; from time to time I have received small stipends for my church work, and just in the last two years any money from our bluegrass group. (Most of the beginning gig money went for a PA, mikes, stands, etc.)
Our best gig this year earned us $80 each for two hours of playing under a canopy while it poured outside around us--and the canopy leaked where it was tucked under an adjoining larger tent...Jewel didn't actually get wet, but it was a close call. Most of the time we get between $20-$30 apiece by the time it's split anywhere from 6 to 10 ways. I think I've gotten paid 4, maybe 5 times this year.
The only open mikes I've done have been with the OFC, and they are just a great experience. And that's why the jams are so much fun--we play at so many different levels of ability and development, and everyone I've met so far has been generous with both sharing how they play things and encouraging those coming along behind them. (A word to the Sisterhood--my guitars look a whole lot better than I play, just so's you're forewarned... :D )
--Karen |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Sorry Karen, I have to disagree with you on that. I have heard you play (just over the phone, but nevertheless...) you play very well, and your singing is absolutely beautiful. Not to mention your songwriting ability. Maybe at the gathering this weekend, someone could show you how to post music so everybody can hear you? |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
your singing is absolutely beautiful. I enjoyed your "Audrey's Song" at the '09 Retreat!  |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | by Jewel's Mom a/k/a Joisey Goil #1:
(A word to the Sisterhood--my guitars look a whole lot better than I play, just so's you're forewarned... :D )
--Karen I can relate! A whole lot of people compliment my guitars... then they tell me that my playing "don't suck".
[I got the Koa Celebrity just for that reason.
I can take it out in crappy weather and it will still look Marvelous.]
See? I got that sign "Fishing for Compliments" :cool: |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | U scored a DOLLAR ?!! .. get OFF the street U Pro ..!! :D
..the rest o` us score peanuts .. |
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Location: Michigan | arthur your only 50 cents away from topping slipkid's pay per view debut... :D GWB |
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Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | Don't know if this was a serious question, but it got me to thinking.. It would be hard to account for every job and every dime in 40 years of gigging. Some years I didn't work at all. Some I was very busy. And, if course, there's a huge disparity in the pay scale from the 60s to now. (Well.. At least in some places! There are bands here in Colorado still working for fifty bucks a night per man.) But after some consideration, I would guess that I have done pretty well for a weekend hacker with no formal training. This number is mostly just from my recollections and not from the sum of 40 years of tax returns. (Yes.. Taxes were paid on most!) ;) So my total is somewhere around 160 grand or so. Which would average around 4 grand a year. About seventy five clams a weekend. Not much in the singular, but there is something to be said for 40+ years of working in stinky bars.. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by FlySig:
Originally posted by guitarwannabee:
flysig you have to explain this bring your own 20 person audience in who must buy a ticket so you can play :confused: are you talking about the bars doing this :confused: GWB The bars around here are private clubs. Well, they used to be, but that's a long story. The larger clubs that have live music pay the band. There is typically a cover charge to get in. It is pretty much like anyplace else, except that there are fewer clubs and patrons because 55% of the state's population doesn't drink due to their religious requirements.
Which means that clubs don't pay very well in general.
It also means that there are a lot of musicians who won't play in a bar due to religious convictions. There is a shortage of bars to play in if you are not LDS, and an excess of musicians who are looking for non-bar gigs.
Other than bars and some restaurants, all of the other venues are pay-to-play. The upside to Utah is that there is a whole lot of good music going on, and a relatively large number of venues. The venues are concert facilities ranging from small room to full auditorium. The downside is that the musicians have to sell their own tickets. The venue will have tickets for sale at the door, too. They keep track of which act the ticket is purchased for.
For example, at your typical venue on a Friday night there will be 3 or 4 acts performing. Each act will have to pre-sell 20 tickets in order to play. The band will twitter, email, text, and Myspace all of their friends and fans to try to sell those 20 tickets. Tickets are usually $7 to $10 each. If you don't sell all the tickets, you can cough up the cash yourself, or you can hope that a few fans buy tickets at the door.
Once you sell the required tickets, usually 20, the venue will split 25% to 50% of the remaining sales with you. So you get nothing if you only sell 20 tickets. If you sell 30 tickets, you might walk away with $50 at the end of the night. Plus tips, plus merch sales.
Usually the act that sells the most tickets will get their choice of when to play. The other acts choose in descending order when to play. About a half hour before the show starts, the first band sets up and does sound check. Everyone is texting/tweeting/emailing their fans to tell them when they are on.
It is a crazy system where the venue owners have offloaded most of the marketing, publicity, and ticket sales onto the artists.
The coffee shop or bar open mic is becoming more popular and more controversial. Artists hate selling their own tickets all the time, so they are happy to invite their 20 friends to a coffee shop, book store, or bar to hear them play for an hour. They aren't getting paid, but they wouldn't have made much at a venue either. The open mic is stress free.
Jaxx Rules |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Y`know .. Cc tells it as it is ..
..a TOUGH HIDE is NEEDED .. No matter which way Ye turn .. |
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Location: Michigan | i just had to make this post go over 100 :eek: GWB |
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Location: Tychy, Poland | $ made from my playing -> about 300$
$ made from other people playing on concerts organized by me - ~2000 $ for last five months (i just started own artist management agency), but i hope it will be more profitable soon (one of "my" artists is playing opening act for Richie Kotzen during his concerts in Poland)... -> www.pieculewicz.com ;-) |
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what is your lifetime $ income $ so far for playing your music???