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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | What's the difference between Deacon and Breadwinner Ovation electric guitars?
Jim |
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Location: WNC-God's Country | I think the Deacon is a 12 string |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Body finish
Neck finish
Fretboard Binding
Fretboard inlays |
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Location: Citizen of the Galaxy | Same guitar, different trim. |
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Location: NW Washington State | Deacons had more deluxe tuners too- all chrome instead of black plastic.
Early Breadwinners had larger single coil (toridial?) pickups that might not have appeared on any Deacons. A few Breadwinners had the output jack on the body, not the pickguard. |
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Location: East Tennessee | The bridge on the Deacon is better quality.... I think. :confused: |
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Location: NW Washington State | There were some early Breadwinners that had plastic (nylon? delrin?) saddles. I don't know if that's good or bad. My later Deacon and Breadwinner came with identical brass/black plastic bridges.
We really need to get Mr. Ovation to school us on these details.
-Steve W. |
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Location: GA USA | Originally posted by numbfingers:
We really need to get Mr. Ovation to school us on these details. I agree. There seems to be a lot of guessing. Like I would be doing if I tried to give a detailed answer. |
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Location: everywhere | Probably missed a few details, but it goes something like this:
1st issue Breadwinner, available in black, white, blue and tan spackled finish. Single piece honduran mahogany body, unbound dot-inlaid ebony fingerboard, Schaller M6N tuners, large single-coils, plain neck plate and battery cover, nylon saddles, large pickguard, Jack socket on rear body cutout
1st issue Deacon: identical to Breadwinner except available in gloss sunburst only, Schaller M6 tuners, bound neck with dot and diamond inlays
2nd issue: identical to above except jack moved to pickguard and covers became cast/embossed with logos. Blue finish discontinued [that may have happened earlier]
3rd issue: Mini humbucker replaces toroidal single coil. Bronze saddle replace nylon. Deacon also available in red and natural. Deacon 12 introduced
4th issue: Deacon gets smaller pickguard and larger headstock. Ovation-badged Schaller bridge replaces original Ovation bridge
5th Issue: Deacon and Deacon 12 discontinued. Breadwinner Ltd introduced and all manner of Mutts appear as the factory disposes of inventory. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Found some data: Breadwinner and Deacon.
Hopefully someone can verify the info... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | First run BW's had the Torriodal pups, White Delrin saddles on the Bridge, a plain Chrome Battery cover and a non-textured Neck Plate. Also featured was the output jack that came out of the side and not the Pickguard and an inner shielding cover.
Soon both models started to receive the textured Neck and Battery Plates, then the Pickups went to Mini sized HBs and the jack moved to the pickguard. The Black and Brass Bridges went through about 6 different modifications (mostly methods to hold down the saddle pieces) until the One Piece Schallers took the stage.
You learn a lot of history when you tear things apart! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Caravan Rooubishe:
Probably missed a few details, but it goes something like this:
1st issue Breadwinner, available in black, white, blue and tan spackled finish. Single piece honduran mahogany body, unbound dot-inlaid ebony fingerboard, Schaller M6N tuners, large single-coils, plain neck plate and battery cover, nylon saddles, large pickguard, Jack socket on rear body cutout
1st issue Deacon: identical to Breadwinner except available in gloss sunburst only, Schaller M6 tuners, bound neck with dot and diamond inlays
2nd issue: identical to above except jack moved to pickguard and covers became cast/embossed with logos. Blue finish discontinued [that may have happened earlier]
3rd issue: Mini humbucker replaces toroidal single coil. Bronze saddle replace nylon. Deacon also available in red and natural. Deacon 12 introduced
4th issue: Deacon gets smaller pickguard and larger headstock. Ovation-badged Schaller bridge replaces original Ovation bridge
5th Issue: Deacon and Deacon 12 discontinued. Breadwinner Ltd introduced and all manner of Mutts appear as the factory disposes of inventory. This is about right with maybe the exception of item 4th. I have never seen (that I recall) a Breadwinner or Deacon with the later Schaller bridge. But ANYTHING is possible. Also.. in saying this.. (anything is possible) re-read the 5th. We even found a couple of Black GLOSS finished Deacons.
Essentially the idea was the Breadwinner was the basic model with spackle paint and large taroidal pickups. The Deacon was upgraded with more bling and the mini-humbuckers. |
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Location: everywhere | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
[ have never seen (that I recall) a Breadwinner or Deacon with the later Schaller bridge. [/QB] I've seen a few, but as the 2 bridges type are interchangable if you have the correct studs, there's no telling if they left the factory that way, or were swapped around later, so maybe that part was wrong. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Caravan Rooubishe:
Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
[ have never seen (that I recall) a Breadwinner or Deacon with the later Schaller bridge. I've seen a few, but as the 2 bridges type are interchangable if you have the correct studs, there's no telling if they left the factory that way, or were swapped around later, so maybe that part was wrong. [/QB] |
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Location: everywhere | Maybe. I've seen plenty factory-installed metal plugs on the reverse of UK11's, Preachers and Vipers which had the Schaller Bridge, but you wouldn't know on a Deacon, Breadwinner or Preacher Deluxe unless you went looking because the rear bolt was hidden under the battery access cover. There'd be no real need to plug it because it can't be seen with the cover in place. I've seen late-model PD 12's with the Schaller bridge and the hole left unplugged. Who knows? |
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Location: Brisbane Australia | Great coverage on the subject guys.
I have a very early Deacon with the Toroidal pups, jack through the body and plain neck and battery covers.
I also have a Deacon 12 string with black textured body with matching bound neck (custom order I reckon), late Schaller bridge and no hole through the body.
One thing I didn't know was that the Blue BW's were discontinued prior to the Humbuckers being fitted.
Mine has the Toroidal pups but jack in the pg and the embossed neck and battery covers.
Yes who knows indeed!!
AJ |
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Location: GA USA | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
We even found a couple of Black GLOSS finished Deacons. That's crazy talk! |
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Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | Very good info. Sounds like the BW's were the Chevrolet and the Deacons were the Caddy.
Are these unique guitars considered collectors items? Also, I saw recently that MusicMishka had a 12 string Deacon for sale (which he quickly decided to keep). I've never played a 12 string electric before. Any idea if these guitars were any good? |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by stellarjim:
Any idea if these guitars were any good? (Hint, hint) Mike pulled his off the market and mine is not for sale!
Collectible? In my mind, yes; especially if they're in the condition of Mike's. I would not sell mine for twice Mike's asking price (go ahead and offer.. won't sell!). But, I'm just a wank that loves Ovations!
There might be better 12er elects out there, but there's just sumpin' special about the craftsmanship, feel, sound and value of the ol' Deacon!
'cuse me, gotta go make sure mine is still near the pulpit...  |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by stellarjim:
Are these unique guitars considered collectors items? Also, I saw recently that MusicMishka had a 12 string Deacon for sale (which he quickly decided to keep). I've never played a 12 string electric before. Any idea if these guitars were any good? I'm not sure they are quite yet "collectors items", but I imagine they are "collectable". You don't see many Deacon 12s out there and when they are, prices are healthy. As they should be ... these are very good, high-quality American-made vintage guitars. That sound and play really well.
They were unique for a number of reasons ... not the least being their shape. FWIW, my D12 is very balanced and for a heavy guitar it sure is easy to strap on and play for quite a while. The more interesting thing is the electronics ... these are active pickups. Powered by 2 9-volt batteries. I once heard these were the first ever electric guitars with active electronics. Finally, there are some real cool other design elements ... the one-piece honduras mahogany body with the waist cut and the forearm cuts, the graphite strip running the length of the neck, etc.
I have a Deacon 12, which probably falls into the "mutt" category. Beautiful natural mahogany body with a near perfect matching neck. It does have the Schaller chrome bridge, and there is no hole cut though and plugged. Mine seems unique in that it has the "Deluxe" neck ... the one that went on the PD12 with the abalone "block style" inlays on the ebony board and the abalone Ovation headstock logo. Chrome mini Schaller tuners with MOP buttons ... the old style ones that actually looked really good. Very sweet and just freaking gorgeous. Mine has been getting a fair amount of play lately on a project I'm working on, and I'm over the moon with how this guitar plays and sounds. Again.
I had a Rickenbacker 12 (360V64-12) and this one stayed and that one went. Some of that is because the Ric was just too skinny of a neck for me. That said, I find the neck of the D12 sometimes seems just a little too wide for my tastes and wish it were 1 3/4, but that's a minor point, and mostly because it's an electric guitar and feels and plays like one. The action is incredibly low yet spot on.
I like "chime", and I can get it out of the Deacon. Having the mid-cut switch in the electronics chain is nice ... but it's also easy to get a variety of other tones out of this guitar (I can soak the tubes and get a really really nice distortion from the guitar, especially when kicking in the rectifier) and I find because of the active electronics, the tone stays put when you change volume, unlike most electric guitars. I have toyed with the idea of trying to string it Ric style and it would be easy to get a new nut cut, but not sure how to handle the intonation with the bridge "pairing" the strings on a six compensated saddles. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open.
In short, these guitars are more than good. I'd venture to say great. Far far more than just a pretty face. If you like that kind of thing. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Day-um bobbo, excellent personal observations! |
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Posts: 888
Location: Louisville, OH 44641 | So the advantage to Active Electronics is what?
I'm really not much of an electric guy at this time but I've really started to enjoy my Carvin lately. A few of the electric guys I know have asked "why would you want an electric guitar with batteries?". |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Good history lesson here from CR and Miles. Thanks for the info. |
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Location: NW Washington State | The active electronics were meant to provide a wider range of sounds. Here's a PDF from ovationtribute.com that describes them: Active Electronics
Does it really work as described? Well sorta. On my Deacon and Breadwinner, I think that the notch filter is too deep, and I hear some distortion on the low notes when played hard. The out-of-phase pickup selection is fun, but to me it's less useful than the middle position on an ordinary pickup switch. But the system does give a wide range of sounds, and there wasn't anything else like it in the mid-70s.
-Steve W. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Excellent writeup Bobbo..
The Breadwinner is much like the UKII in that unless you play one, really play it, and see what it can do.... you'll never realize how important of an instrument it is.
It was to my knowledge one of the first, if not THE first to SUCCESSFULLY employ on-board electronics. The advantage is that you can get higher highs, lower lows etc. Although in later years the tone control was a 0 - 10 knob, the circuit is with ZERO in the MIDDLE.
This little detail in itself might turn off the average person shopping as unless they were familiar with the guitar, they would not realize they were maxing out the treble when taking it for a test drive.
I think the most versatile model was with the nylon saddle bridge as I believe that material allowed the most control and most variety of tone.
I'd have to look at my notes, but there was also adjustments for the notch filter and something else on the board. Had to be adjusted internally, or through the back on some real early ones, but that would allow dialing in your style.
And while it has been argued to some extent who exactly came up with the design and why, my best assumption is that it was done mostly for "cool factor" but that in itself, made it VERY ergonomic, long before the word "ergonomic" was a daily term.
Bottom line... They are a well designed guitar, put into production with features that are still used today, and in fact in pristine condition, an original Breadwinner or Deacon will easily stand up against any of the guitars today using the newer versions of the same tech.
As example... I have a Carvin DC400T and noticed a bunch of hum that is typical of single coils, active electronics and a tube amp.... Well... the Breadwinner, with it's HOT toroidal single coils... and active electronics through the same tube amp.... is quiet as mouse..
Don't get me wrong, I love the DC400, but you'd think 30 years later... the results would be improved significantly... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | So Mile's,
I sure hope you can make it over this weekend. You will get to play...
- White Early Breadwinner, torriodal pups and Nylon Saddle.
- Messina Deacon, First (and only?) chambered Deacon and has a Maple fretboard.
- Hell-Mutt Deacon. All Mahogany with UKII Twin Rails and an active Boost.
Oh yeah, and an Academy... :D
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | and a VXT ?? |
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Posts: 13997
Location: Upper Left USA | Si!
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | It needs strings.. :) I like 9's :)
I'll bring a set. |
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Deacon and Breadwinner models