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| Walter Carney's mother is the original owner, and they still have the receipt for the guitar, purchased directly from the factory as she was an employee..
and he states that the Grovers were also installed at the factory... if he were to send the guitar to mother, prior to the end of the auction, would the headstock repair be covered under warranty?
just wondering... and not suggesting any malfeasance.. or games..
she still owns it, and wondering if they could send it to the factory for the repairs and refurbishment,
and then request that it be shipped to Jerome, and he then complete the transaction, or they cancel the auction, have the guitar repaired, and initiate another transaction, or start another auction.
opinions?
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | I think the question might be, would those replacement tuners nix the warranty?
I would hope that since she worked there, that it would be repaired gratis! |
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| Walter says his mother had a good relationship with management and the foreman at the time.... the Klusons were changed to the Grovers later in the guitars life AT the factory by one of the factory craftsmen/technicians. so was a factory replacement/upgrade... whether noted in the history/records for the guitar is the question in addition to whether records of production and sales are still available from year one of operation.
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Preserving a 1966 Ovation, for a former employee, and sending it to our Chief Archivist?
That's a no-brainer. |
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| Originally posted by seesquare:
Preserving a 1966 Ovation, for a former employee, and sending it to our Chief Archivist?
That's a no-brainer. personally I agree, as probably will others....but..
the caveats are:
1. Jerome has not won the auction yet, and currently may not even know when the auction is ending... according to correspondence with him, he believes the auction is ending on Friday, and I am trying to contact him.
2. Mother may attribute this as being a classic shipping or "airline" headstock break, and the early balladeers had a much higher break angle at the headstock.... I believe 14 degrees or more which is why the break angle was reduced on later models...
and of course...
3. It's not our call... and is wholly up to customer service and Ovation/FMIC now.
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | OK, since we all seem to have more money, opinions, & visceral reactions, than sound logic & reasonable restraint; pass the collection plate!
Whether The MotherShip deems the damage as out-of-warranty, the repairs should be done there.
I'm in- who wants to coordinate this fiasco? |
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| be careful, Al and Miles want no solicitation of any kind..
I just got off the phone with Walt and he's on his way over, his mother worked in the factory which was fuller brush for a year or two and then went to work for the Helicopter division of Kaman..
she has tons of old literature from those days... met Josh White... who used to come in and have fiberglass fingernails put on... and met and knows Charlie personally as well as having Josh's and Charlie's autograph on many pieces of the ephemera...
for anyone reading from Ovation/Kaman/FMIC her name is Viola and she says hello.
Glenn |
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| Walt and guitar just left... Al/Slydog came over for it's unveiling as well..
mom did the rosettes in 66.. she and her co-workers after working with the glues and resins would regularly have to be led out of the factory by the formen to "come down" a bit.. as they would tend to get a little giddy.
according to Walt, the guitar has maybe 5 hours total playing time on it... and it looks it.
nobody in the family played guitar, he plays sax and nobody knew more than 4 chords..(must be related to someone here) ;)
it IS a 2 piece top, which is absolutely flat, neck is dead straight, zero(almost I guess I couldn't see any) fretwear. and by my mirror inspection it appears to be an X-bracing pattern of some sort. nothing matches it on Jerome's site.
crazing/checking is everywhere on this guitar except the top... the bowl is crazed, and the neck also, but none is loose, lifting, or flaky.
this is by far the lightest guitar I have ever held.
Most age Mojo I've ever seen on an Ovation, and the skid pad is STILL intact and perfect and fully attached to the bowl.
absolutely gorgeous stained rosewood 5-point bridge. original strap-pin on the bottom of the bowl, I could go on and on, but other than the HS crack.... I don't think you could find a better 66 unless it was stored in a hermetically sealed case.... speaking of which is also in spectacular condition.
guitar was last tuned according to Mr. Carney around 1970 or so.... and even with the crack.. the guitar was almost dead center in tune..in D though... all of the strings came in at almost a perfect full step down with my intellitouch tuner.
I have lots of photos... indoors, outdoors.. etc.. got to play it for a few minutes.. a little Allman Bros, Hotel Cal, HOTRS, and a couple more.. hell I only know about 10 songs or so.... at least Walt was impressed... nobody else ever is.
let the games begin!!!
should I send the photos to only Jerome? with only a teaser or two here?
or put em all up? and may the best man or woman win?
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by GHessSr:
she still owns it, and wondering if they could send it to the factory for the repairs and refurbishment (under warranty),
opinions? That seems pretty sketchy to me.
How long has the headstock been broken? Suddenly, now that the guitar is being sold, it's the factory's fault that the headstock was cracked due to the owner wanting the tuners changed?
No, that doesn't set well with me. |
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| Originally posted by fletcher:
Originally posted by GHessSr:
she still owns it, and wondering if they could send it to the factory for the repairs and refurbishment (under warranty),
opinions? That seems pretty sketchy to me.
How long has the headstock been broken? Suddenly, now that the guitar is being sold, it's the factory's fault that the headstock was cracked due to the owner wanting the tuners changed?
No, that doesn't set well with me.
I did make them aware of her rights as an owner and the limited lifetime Warranty... but I don't even know if that warranty was in effect for year one... yet...
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: Upper Left USA | If it's for sale then the "as is" condition is "as is". Repairs don't run as high as most would think, just having this history documented is priceless.
OK, $3.53 is my offer... |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Glenn, I'm happy this guitar will go to Jerome, but I'm very interesting to see pics. If you can add them to the ning site I will be happy, otherwise can you email me with some of the most representative pic of the guitar (exlibris@yahoo.it)?
It will be also very intersting if Mr Carney'mother could share some of her memories and memorabilia with all of us here in the forum :)
Thank you
Riccardo |
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Location: Paris/France | Thanks Glenn for all your efforts with this guitar.
You're right, I'm not the new owner of this guitar yet and I cross my fingers to be lucky enough to get it at the end of the auction.
If I win, I'm ready to pay for the repairs needed and my wish is not to change anything; just fixing the broken head!!
Did I wrote Friday??
It's a mistake, I'll be there at the end of the auction (Wednesday 4.15am Paris time). ;)
I hope that she will not beat a "price record"!!
I will do my best... ;)
J :) |
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Location: SoCal | Jérôme,
You have email... |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Glenn, my email address is "exlibris89@yahoo.it". I made it wrong in my previous post. Sorry.
Just in case :rolleyes:
Riccardo |
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| you are very welcome Jerome!
photos are now on the Ning site.
I'm not going to get into a P*****g contest just for trying to help anudder brudder out, or for being as honest and open with the seller about what he and she have up for sale.
With the ephemera, signatures, and documentation they have they should turn it into a package deal/treasure chest.
Good Luck Everyone!!
1966 Balladeer Factory worker built by Viola Carney and crew year one for Ovation
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Sorry, solicitation was not my intent. Preserving history was. I don't really care who gets it, but get it fixed!
Personally, though, I'd put the Klusons back on. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Ol' Faithful's equipment:
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Location: Tennessee | Not wanting to disrupt anyone's plans, but I'm sure there are other folks here who are watching that auction and hoping to win it. |
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| I really am not concerned as to who gets it.. though I would love for it to be Jerome I would be just as happy if another member here got it.
we have the photos, and the history and Mr. and Mrs. Carney are amenable to at least sending Jerome copies and scans of all of the documents for the Ovationtribute site.
I was asked by several to check out this guitar, and give it my evaluation, the story is gravy, I made another friend and educated him a little about Ovation's history which he did not know..
and he did the same for me.
all the best, and hoping this one makes it into the fold... whoever gets it.
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: NW Washington State | Anyone have a link to the eBay listing? Seems strange to discuss this without that. Or did I miss it somewhere in the thread?
-Steve W. |
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Location: SoCal | Glenn,
You are doing a good deed...took the time to check it out, a little history, and photos.
Thanks |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I'm quite sure this will end up in the OFC. To anyone else it's probably "just a busted up old ovation."
It's good you could check this out for us, Glenn. |
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| Tony, Dave, and all the others... it is all I was trying to do... help out.
Thank You.
Glenn |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Glenn, I think we're all fortunate that it was you that got to preview and evaluate the git.
Thanx!  |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Glenn;
How does it sound and play? |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by numbfingers:
Anyone have a link to the eBay listing? Seems strange to discuss this without that. Or did I miss it somewhere in the thread?
-Steve W. Here ya\' Go! |
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| Hi Wayne,
nice to hear from you again, and it's sure been a while.
I did not tune it up... but, as it is.. it was close to D.. and I didn't want to take a chance of aggravating the HS crack.
it plays well and the action is fair at the 12th..
it has strings on it that are at least 39 years old by Walt's recollection so hard to make the evaluation as to the tone.
it definitely sounds like a vintage shiny-bowl and the projection is good.
I don't think it will need a bowl-bend, but I am not the expert.
I played a few songs on it, the frets have no appreciable wear that I could see, the string gauge was pretty light on the guitar... 10s or maybe 11s,
they may even be factory strings(after the Grover upgrade) with as little play time as is claimed to be on the guitar... Walt actually said only 2 hours of play are on the guitar... but that's pretty hard to believe for a 43 yo.. so I put the # at 5.. but may be as he claims.
standard vintage O profile on the neck, the top is pretty flawless.. just 2 tiny scuffs were all I could find. and those will buff right out.
The bracing was like nothing I've seen on an O before. it was an X brace with a thin vertical brace headed up toward the soundhole at center from the intersection.. but I couldn't see below to the underside of the X... I tried... just couldn't get the mirror right with the light at the same time.
hope that helps.
hope you are well Wayne!
Best Regards, and thanks for all of your help on the UKXII/Bluebird neck UK.
Glenn |
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Location: michigan | Seeing the interaction on this board is really cool. I belong to a few message boards and it is great how folks work together worldwide when transactions like this become available. As I look through this thread, I feel fortunate to have bought one of the balladeer reissues. Acoustically, everyone loves it over all my others. I am sure glad they made them this good back in the sixties so I could enjoy such a killer reissue. It is great this guitar has so much history. Long live the shiny bowls, past , present (and hopefully, but probably not) the future. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by GHessSr:
I don't think it will need a bowl-bend You got me on that one, what's a bowl-bend? |
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Glenn;
Thanks for all your help showcasing this old beauty for everyone here to see and read about. |
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Location: Tuscany, Italy | Originally posted by GHessSr:
....
we have the photos, and the history and Mr. and Mrs. Carney are amenable to at least sending Jerome copies and scans of all of the documents for the Ovationtribute site.
................
Regards,
Glenn Thank you Glenn for your time and efforts to made this possible for everyone here .... and for the pics :) .... and 'cause it's great that such important documents will be available for Ovationtribute, that is to say, for all of us.
As I already wrote to Jerome, I've no interest in bidding for this guitar.
Riccardo |
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Location: SoCal | Just a FYI, Jerome REFUSED a direct financial contribution to help him as who knows where the end price will go...and, as I stated, the seller deserves a fair price. He is fully prepared to seriously go after this guitar.
However, there is a "DONATE" button on his website (to support his website). ;)
DONATE
Donation is absolutely voluntary. For those that have been around for awhile, we have gained so much from Jerome's efforts. If you haven't visited his site, check it out. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Auction has been pulled on ebay. It wasn't me, although I would have jumped in to keep it in the OFC if Jerome got out bid.
Hope somebody here, or maybe Jerome himself, got it. Or maybe the seller has rethought the deal and will relist it with a nice reserve.
I must admit for the past few days my stomach has been churning between "that would really be cool to have" and "exactly what the hell would I do with it".
Sometimes stuff happens for a reason. |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Auction has been pulled on ebay. Well, what the hell!
I had been bidding on that since it was first listed (before all the threads got started here) and now it's suddenly pulled?
I would like some answers! |
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| Originally posted by standing:
Originally posted by GHessSr:
I don't think it will need a bowl-bend You got me on that one, what's a bowl-bend?
Re: Pulling of the auction.. I have no clue as to why...
I'll give Walt a call tomorrow... but I'll bet that he and mom are going to put it back up for auction along with all of the ephemera, written history, and the guitar in it's current state...along with any Ovation souvenirs she still has... he said they didn't want to send it to New Hartford for the repairs though, and were just trying to get the best deal for what they have.
THIS WAS NOT MY IDEA!!!
He also deals in military items/Weapons/uniforms and ephemera from the Revolutionary wars, war between the states, old west, WWI, WWII, KW, and VN and knows what documentation and provenance can do to enhance an items' value and desirability to and for the RIGHT buyer.
Fletcher... there's your answers.. and explains a lot about your responses to these threads..
Regards,
Glenn |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by GHessSr:
Fletcher... there's your answers.. and explains a lot about your responses to these threads..
Regards,
Glenn I guess I'll respond to this edited version although I did have the pleasure of seeing your original posting...
Glenn,
I made one comment during the course of these 2 threads and that was in response to your request for opinions on whether or not the headstock repair should be covered under warranty.
I stated it seemed pretty sketchy to me to expect that. The owner had lived with the break for so many years and, according to your posting, the break had occurred when the tuners had been changed by the factory at the owners request.
That opinion of what seemed fair to me had nothing to do with the fact I had been bidding on the guitar prior to your involvement.
Nice edit by the way - Miles? |
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Location: SoCal | Again, I was not bidding on the item.
Just my opinion and the seller can do anything they want...not sure where the bidding was when it was closed but the seller created the listing, determined the starting price, determined the length of the AUCTION.
To close it on good faith bidders is unsat!
Oh my, gee whiz, there is a lot of interest in this, maybe I should re-think the listing...c'mon, most of the bidding would have been in the last two minutes. |
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Location: Paris/France | Hope somebody here, or maybe Jerome himself, got it It is not me!!
As I told you, I was ready to play the game and to wake up at 4AM Paris time to click on the button.
If someone bought it directly, it's not "fair play" but what can I do??
If Walt wants to relist this guitar with a reserve price, I'll be there again to try to get it.
If he relists it with a BIN, I hope to be in front of my computer before someone buy it.
Ok, it's not the end of the world but I have to admit that I'm a little bit disappointed because I was dreaming of this Balladeer and it would have been a nice gift for Christmas. :(
A suivre...
J ;) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Unfortunately that's just the way direct auctions work. Seller is not obligated to run the auction to the end. Maybe disappointing to those who bid, but I don't see anything inheriently wrong with the seller changing his mind or selling it outright if he gets an offer he can't refuse. Which is probably what happened in this case. |
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| Sucks for Jerome, but Dave's absolutely correct. In 2 instances where I had a guitar listed on eBay I also had it listed locally. Each of those wound up selling locally before the auction end time, so I simply ended the auction early. Of course, I stated that they were for sale locally and that as the seller I reserved the right to end the auction in case of a local sale, but nowhere does eBay require you to state that, or provide any reason for ending an auction. You can even end an auction with bids, in which case you have the option of going ahead with the sale to the highest bidder at that time, although they can decline it. |
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Location: Utah | I'd agree, unsat to pull the auction. It was not stated "available for local sale" or any other condition. With the interest generated on this forum the bidding would have gone as high as it ever would, and certainly higher than if it had not been discovered and posted here.
That guitar is not worth that much money. It has definite sentimental value to a very small number of people. But that sentimental value probably doesn't translate to many $. In the end, it is a damaged guitar with an interesting low serial number.
Presuming that the seller is going to relist with a bunch of memorabilia, I really don't see it being worth more than the additional separate worth of the memorabilia.
Maybe I'm all washed up on this one, but even as an O addict who would be interested in buying an old Balladeer, I don't see this as a collectible that will appreciate in value. It isn't an investment it is a purchase. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | I cancelled an auction once to sell a guitar privately here on the OFC. A dozen members WHO HAD NOT EVEN BID crucified me for being unethical. The one member WHO BOUGHT IT thanked me for providing him the guitar of his dreams. Go figure. |
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Location: Paris/France | Hi,
I'm back home after work and I've got a very kind, long and very clear message from the seller.
The guitar is not sold yet and he told me that he want to talk with his mother to send it back to the factory for repair before to relist it in few weeks.
Walt (the seller) is really a nice guy and you can count on me for being there the next time.
I want to explain my feeling this morning when I saw that the auction was canceled.
I was just very disappointed because I don't like to loose especially when the rules are "cheated"...
I've never asked to a seller to cancel an auction and to sell me something directly.
And I really love the excitation of the moment when I click to buy and the few seconds before the end when I refresh the page each time to know if I won.
That's why I had this reaction this morning, I really was disappointed, I felt like "robbed", it's human that's all!!
I'm going back to work in my music room, I have lots of work for taking care of all the nice guitars I'm lucky to own.
J :) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Excellent! Let's hope it all works out next time around. Good for you, Jerome. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Glad you're going to have another shot at it, Jerome. I'll be pulling for you! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | "Winning" an ebay auction is like SWMBO "saving" money by buying clothes on sale. If you really "won" or "saved", you wouldn't be writing a check. I've bought a couple that were great deals and lost out on a few that were worth more to someone else than they were to me. Lately I've felt relieved if I get outbid on ebay and I don't worry about having lost.
I think the second guitar I ever bid on was an old shiney bowl Josh White. There was this guy who went by StandingOvation who was bidding against me, so I checked him out and found out he was way over my head. I didn't know it was taboo, so I contacted him and he told me what he thought it was worth. Someone else sniped both of us. I had regrets for awhile, but the contacts with the OFC led me to many better guitars and many fine people. So don't get too upset about "losing" out on an auction. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
"Winning" an ebay auction is like SWMBO "saving" money by buying clothes on sale. If you really "won" or "saved", you wouldn't be writing a check. I've always thought that was the funniest thing about the ebay mentality.
"I won, I won!" ...no, actually you not only bought it, you also competed with others to see who would pay the most for it. |
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Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
I've always thought that was the funniest thing about the ebay mentality.
"I won, I won!" ...no, actually you not only bought it, you also competed with others to see who would pay the most for it. Good thing I guess about having "dial-up": you resign yourself to setting a price and hoping - last minute updates are simply impractical. Probably has saved me alot over the years by keeping me from getting caught-up in last minute frenzies. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Probably just semantics- substitute "prevailed" for "won", on the end-of-auction thing.
Interesting, the way this scenario is playing out. I appreciate the diversion & entertainment immensely. |
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Location: closely held secret | Ok... you prevailed over others who weren't willing to spend as much as you! ;) |
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| to be clear... neither AL nor I got the guitar.
we are both in the same boat, and have neither "the proverbial pot" nor "Window to throw it from"
as they say...
"No good deed goes unpunished" especially on the OFC!!
good luck to whomever gets this one the next time it surfaces.
Though I think it will be after a trip to mother for the HS repair, having the Klusons re-installed, and include a written history and all documentation. photos, autographs, and brochures they have on that particular guitar, other models, and Kaman circa 1966/1967.
you probably won't hear from me for a while... we're about to lose our internet connection,(which means our businesses as well) our first month operating at a loss was Oct 2009, since Dec 2005 when we created the .coms and the non-profit.
and if things don't get better soon... maybe even losing our home.
Later... I needed a vacation anyway.
Glenn |
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Question Re: 1966 Balladeer currently on e-bay