|
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I picked up an Ovation today (I'm home on a 2 week mid tour leave from Iraq).
I haven't even had a chance to look up exactly how old it is or even the model (I'll figure it out in a bit unless somebody here chimes in sooner).
It's Model number 1112-4, a deep bowl, natural finish, rumored to be a late 70's but who knows.
The top is lifting a little from the bowl at the bottom of the guitar, not bad but you can push it down, so it is loose, a few small dings in the face, fret wear is there but not horrible, good condition on the neck, just two little nicks.
I will probably end up sending this one to the MS and getting a quote for a top change.
It plays great, stays in tune, and I got it for...........
$75.00
I'm gonna give it to my Boy.
I will do some pics in the next day or so. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | Ok, it's a Custom Balladeer, now I just gotta figure out how old it actually is... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Cost-benefit ratio. The Wizards will do an excellent restoration, with top/bowl replacement (as a unit, usually), and install the neck, with magical skill on the action. Probably around $500.00.
As The Bard observed, "Ah, there's the rub." For $500.00, you may get another USA-made critter, in mint condition. BUT, the 1112-4, rebuilt, will be virtually NEW.
So, the question may be: "Is the 1112 neck the one that fits my (or my son's) hand the best?"
AND, if you do have The MotherShip "have their way" with the instrument, it now has YOUR history in it. May be worth some consideration, at that point. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Its got character as is. Play it! Congrats on the get and welcome home! Stay safe. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by twistedlim:
Its got character as is. Play it! Congrats on the get and welcome home! Stay safe. .. my words exactly ..
Vic
.. enyoy yer R & R , ya hear .. :) |
|
| |
|
Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 602
Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany | Congrats Michael, sounds like a great get. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Michael R. Winters sez:
It's Model number 1112-4, a deep bowl, natural finish, rumored to be a late 70's but who knows.
The top is lifting a little from the bowl at the bottom of the guitar, not bad but you can push it down, so it is loose...
It plays great, stays in tune, and I got it for...........
$75.00  or 
Would be my solution! :eek:
Enjoy your vacation! :cool: |
|
| |
|
Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 7307
Location: South of most, North of few | Hey Michael, welcome home! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Welcome home, Michael! Congrats on the get. My advice FWIW, leave it as is for a beater. As already said, for the price of a refurb you can find a real nice 1617 or similar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Michael, Welcome home!
Congrats on the guitar, hopefully you will be able to reapair it a little and enjoy it!. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2007
Posts: 1486
Location: Cincinnati | OK, so instead of spending time with your family you're out chasing down guitars. You've been in the desert too long. :p
Hope you are enjoying your time at home. Make the most of it. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | That was a great buy, but for 75 bucks I'd let the son play the heck out of it and save up for a nicer one for yourself. Those Custom Balladeers and Legends, although excellent guitars, many times go for nothing. If you are going to spend a lot of money on a MS Re-do, make it count and get an instrument that will hold its resale value. As an excellent example, take a look at that Adamas I that just sold for $1,000. Even if for some reason that needed to go to the MS, it will come back like new and be worth a whole lot more. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | Hello all and thnaks for the replies and the "Welcome Homes", Kotadawg, I'll deal with you later HA HA HA
It actually does sound very good.
I was going to ask about feedback on dribbling some wood glue from the inside.
Would it really work ok?
I'd rather have a little insurance that the thing will hold together for a few more years.
I'm not planning on spending any big bucks on this guitar, I figured I'd just see how much MS would charge.
I am planing on sending my Dad's 68 to them to see what they think about touching it up, it doesn't need much, it's in really good shape.
The major thing is my Dad drilled a hole in the bowl for a pickup.
He loved the guitar but it was putting food on the table and had to be a tool for that so it needed a pickup.
I don't even know if the MS can repair the shiney bowls or not.
I'll worry about that when I get home for good in March or so. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Michael,
Can you post a photo of the referenced area for repair? The BFLG may be able to assist you, in this regard. The operant issue is where to introduce the adhesive agent, I would surmise. After that, masking tape to hold it down, 'til the glue sets up. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5563
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Hey Michael, Welcome Home! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | welcome home
a great get |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | Thanks again for all the "Welcome Homes", it is soooo nice to be home for a little while at least, just a few more months till I'm back for good :)
Seesquare, what's BFLG?
I'm trying to get a pic of where it is lifting that shows it well enough, it's just really hard to see, it just doesn't poke up that much.
It's lifting at the very ass-end of the top, parallel to the bridge, an area about 3 1/2 inches across and it lifts a 32nd of an inch, mayyyybe a 16th.
For $75 I'm not complaining, and and as I said, it stays in tune and sounds really good. My 68 whips the hell out of it but it does sound good for what it is.
I could probably get some glue down in the little crevasse or I could dribble some glue down that way from the sound hole or both.
What is the common consensus on what is best to try if I glue it from the top? Wood glue, super glue, etc.
Also, anybody have any ideas on if the MS can fix the hole in my 68? I'd rather keep the hole than have the bowl replaced you know? It's a "defect" but one my Dad had to do. If they can fix it, cool, if not, cool too, something more to remind me of my Dad. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | A decent luthier could probably help you glue that back down for a minimal cost. You probably want to make sure any loose pieces are cleaned out and then glue and clamp it. Clamping the round bowl might be a challenge but I am sure it could be done. Make sure you get the right glue that will adhere to both the top and the bowl and will last even under temperature extremes. Faster curing epoxy tend to fall apart under heat while the longer curing ones will take the heat (or cold) better. I think you have to be careful how you clamp it as going too tight might crack the bowl. I am sure it can be done though without too much expense.
As far as the hole goes, it is fiberglass and that repairs well. They would probably have to repaint the back of the bowl after they fix the hole but I would not want them replacing it for the reasons you stated.
This is coming from an experienced woodworker and inexperienced guitar tinkerer sot take it for what it is worth. Let us know how it all comes out.
Rich |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I used Elmer's wood glue to fix a broken brace on my Folklore, because it looked like what I assumed was Factory glue that I could see inside the guitar. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I'm po (can't afford the o and the r) so a luthier is probably out but I'll see what I can find around Knoxville in the phone book unless somebody happens to know of any.
I'll watch the board over the next few days and go with the consensus.
I sure do appreciate everybody's hep! |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| BFLG = Bottom Feeder's Luthier Guild.
Gorilla Glue. Mask the top and bowl so any glue seepage doesn't get on them. Inject it into the area with a syringe. Another option is a two-part epoxy, but that's more viscous and might be harder to get into the space.
From your description of where and what, you might just be able to keep the wood in proper position with masking tape until the glue sets. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I figured on whatever glue is most recommended that I'd put in in as you said, with a syringe, and then put something on the top's edge that weighs just enough to push it down and hold it in place.
Of course I'd be careful not to put anything heavy enough on it that would crack the top. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| You'd be surprised how often woodworkers just use tape or rubber bands to hold things in position until a glue line sets. You get a weaker glue joint with clamps 'cause you squeeze out too much glue. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Remember that Gorilla Glue EXPANDS as it cures...
Also, Read the Directions! Gorilla Glue wants the surface to be damp or it won't work.
Personally, I don't like Gorilla Glue.
I've used the Elmer's wood glue on thru-the-wood top cracks.
But since I think that yours might be bowl/top separation, I recommended the Elmer's Ultimate.
You might want to hunt-down some 'slow-set' Crazy-Glue...
Y'know, cyano-something that doesn't stick immediately. But takes 5 - 20 minutes to set. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2002
Posts: 3611
Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | BFLG- BottomFeeders Luthiery Guild, or Bottom Feeders League of Gentlemen (MWoody, Esq.)
I would use an adhesive with good capillary action. In other words, something that "wicks" itself into the open space, then you can tape it down. Try a cyanocrylate (Super Glue), then carefully clean up the squeeze-out, on the surface, with Super Glue Remover. Should work pretty well, given the description of the separation issue. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1118
Location: NW Washington State | Would a super glue- or any glue- that's formulated to adhere to plastic be needed so that it would stick to the bowl? Most superglues and epoxies aren't very good for plastic. To stick two pieces of plastic together you have to look carefully to find one like "Plastic Welder" or "Plastic Surgery".
I don't know if this is what's needed, just asking.
-Steve W. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 3969
| Isn't there some kind of wood kerfing adhered to the bowl that the the top is then glued to? I don't think the top is glued directly to the (really) thin bowl directly... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | It's a plastic or fiberglass ring that's attached to the bowl. It has a lip. The top is mounted to that. Take a look inside your guitar. You'll see it..... |
|
| |
|
Joined:
July 2004
Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Elmer's wood glue works great and flows into the crack just fine.
If you know anyone who is a physical therapist, hit them up for one of the giant rubber bands made of sheet rubber that's about 8 inches across - it makes a great wrap-around clamp on the roundback/top joint. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | From my experience epoxy will adhere to both fiberglass and wood. May not as well to plastic. Nothing really adheres to plastic that will adhere to wood. The bowl is fiberglass so as long as you scrape or sand away any paint on the inside where you have to glue it should adhere. If you go to Home Depot they have various types of epoxy. Get a slower setting epoxy that will give you more work time and will last longer under extreem conditions.
Superglue does work somewhat with plastic but not really well. The trick is to have a glue that will either be able to impregnate into the material (wood) or become part of its composition (fiber glass). Epoxy fits both those bills.
There is a glue that will actually sort of melt plastic materials and allow them bond together but it is not readily available and will not work with wood. I cannot remember what it is called but we have used it to fuse pieces of acetate together.
A slow set epoxy has the added advantage of being a pretty good filler. Just make sure you get all the excess off before it sets. Wipe it with a rag and then dampen another rage slightly with methanol and wipe it clean. Not so much methanol as to get into the glue but just enough to clean any spill over marks. |
|
| |
|
Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 1118
Location: NW Washington State | From my experience, ordinary epoxy and superglue work poorly for plastic. The glues that melt plastics are made for specific varieties of plastic.
There are "super" glues that are made for plastic. Here's one: http://www.itwconsumer.com/catalog.aspx?prodID=227
There are also epoxies that are made for plastic. Here's one: http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?familyid=182
These were easy for me to look up since they're the ones I have handy and have used before. I'm sure there are other brands.
I'm not claiming that these are the best for guitar or fiberglass repair, but if I were going to try an epoxy or superglue, I'd use something like this instead of a general purpose product.
Does Elmer's or other wood glue stick to fiberglass?
-Steve W. |
|
| |
Got an O cheap today!