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June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | My problem is playing very (very) simple repetitive pieces.
You know when you try to say "She sells sea shells on the sea shore" a couple of times or pat the top of your head and rub your belly at the same time it often doesn't go as planned.
Well, when learning a new piece I don't have a problem but once it's in my fingers and I can play it without thinking then that's when the problem starts.
Here's a very simple passage that usually trips me up. It's the intro from Leo Kottke's 'The Fisherman'. It's played 4 times but by the time I get to the 4th time I've lost the rhythm.
I try slowing it right down but that usually makes it worse - by that time I'm just thinking too much about it - if you see what I mean.
As you can see - it's very simple - So, any tips ? Am I abnormal? or do other people have the same problem with co-ordination but know how to deal with it ?
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Posts: 672
Location: New South Wales, Australia | G'day Ian.........you're not alone. I often have the same problem. Sometimes I reckon it's because I'm thinking too much instead of just getting into the music and the moment. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Stop concentrating on pedaling and balancing and just ride the bike.
And try tapping your foot and swaying your body when you play. Let the rhythm come from the inside out. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | It will come from repetition. I do a lot of songs with similar finger picking styles. Sometimes I'll be playing a song and my fingers just switch to a pattern from a similar song. Last night I got lost when I was on the third verse. I went through the first two fine. Sometimes you really need to concentrate and sometimes you have to stop thinking and let your muscle memory do everything. Usually it's the latter. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | You don't have to play something exactly like the author wrote it. When you make slight changes to it, you're making it your own.
If you think Kottke's stuff is difficult (and he's a really good player) try learning some Jerry Reed tunes. He was a monster player.
You might keep in mind that most great players never play the same thing exactly the same way twice. Even tho' it's written a certain way by the people transcribing it, Reed would never play the same thing twice. In the 60's, when he was doing studio work, it was said that if a tune required 20 takes, he'd play it 20 different ways.
As Bobbo and MIB said, stop thinking about it and just play it. What comes out will be a Kottke tune with your stamp on it. Practice, practice, and practice some more. Then play the tune, not the tab.... |
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January 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Chicago | First, use a metronome or drum machine. Always. Second: develop the practice of listening to what's OUTSIDE you (say the band or the metronome) and NOT just your own head-and-fingers complex. Ears up and "out" on metronome, fingers on notes, tap your foot...
Watch THIS LESSON at 2:30 onward |
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May 2003
Posts: 4389
Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | What happens to me sometimes is I'll be playing something and then I'll think hey that sounds pretty cool, then follow the cool thing whatever it was, then forget where I was in the song. It's great for jamming, not so good if others are focused. It's like, oh look, a bright shiney musical penny, and then saying geez how'd I get here. |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by dobro:
First, use a metronome or drum machine. Always. Second: develop the practice of listening to what's OUTSIDE you (say the band or the metronome) and NOT just your own head-and-fingers complex. Ears up and "out" on metronome, fingers on notes, tap your foot...
Watch THIS LESSON at 2:30 onward |
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August 2009
Posts: 602
Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
You don't have to play something exactly like the author wrote it. When you make slight changes to it, you're making it your own.
(...)
Practice, practice, and practice some more. Then play the tune, not the tab.... Moody... This is the perfect answer! Thread can be closed now. Thumbs up! |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Denmark | I tried the figure and it works for me using this right hand fingering:
E|________|
H|__A_A_A_|
G|_M-M_M_M|
D|__I___I_|
A|P___P___|
E|________|
For playing repetitive patterns I find that practice does a lot. This first song I seriously worked with was "Every breath you take" by The Police (band). Different pattern different style different technique (flat pick) but getting the thing played with the right musical flow requies practice in either case. Learn the pattern and practice it. Many times. Actually you don't need the guitar to practice right hand fingering because its more about body control than about music. |
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October 2008
Posts: 489
| Take it in stages, Ian.
For the moment, play only the alternating bass with your thumb, which is on the beat one-two-three-four. After you can do this and stay in time, try adding the open G in between the beats, one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and, using your index finger to attack the third string. Once you get that comfortable, attack the 2nd string C with your middle finger at the same time you use your thumb for the alternating bass.
Viewed as a whole, it can be intimidating. in parts, it becomes more manageable. Good luck |
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Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | It's interesting to read how many different ways you guys approach the same challenge. There is no wrong approach here, just different roads to the same place (hmmm ... that sounds like it would make a nice song :) , anyway ... back on the trail ... I personally use Losov's approach in taking small bites until I can put it all together through muscle memory. That works best for me, but Ian, you'll need to try out the different ideas and see which technique produces the best results for you. |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Originally posted by tpa:
I tried the figure and it works for me using this right hand fingering:
E|________|
H|__A_A_A_|
G|_M-M_M_M|
D|__I___I_|
A|P___P___|
E|________|
That's a good tip, if you can figure out how to tune the second string to an "H" ;) |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by standing:
Originally posted by tpa:
I tried the figure and it works for me using this right hand fingering:
E|________|
H|__A_A_A_|
G|_M-M_M_M|
D|__I___I_|
A|P___P___|
E|________|
That's a good tip, if you can figure out how to tune the second string to an "H" ;)
as I`m NOT a Dane ,I do n`t use that scale , and have forgotten how to explain it , so TPA will have to do that , ... he did n`t make a mistake. |
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August 2009
Posts: 602
Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany | It's the same way in Germany: an H is similar to a B. "Your" B is an H for us. And a "B" in Germany (or Denmark) is a Bb (B flat) in the USA.
It DOES sound confusing, I know :D |
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December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Excerpt from Wikipedia:
In parts of Europe, including Germany, Poland and Russia, the natural symbol transformed into the letter H: in German music notation, H is B♮ (B-natural) and B is B♭ (B-flat). TPA, FlicKreno, Meuti:
I apologize for my ignorance and attempt at a cheap joke. I really thought it was a typo for a "B." I had to go look it up to be sure you were not joking… I guess that's part of being a member of "The Sarcastics" on the ning site, I assume sarcasm before sincerity…
…but I do sincerely apologize for my stupidity, I never knew that, so thanks for the education! |
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November 2005
Posts: 4827
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | IanS; all you need to know.
Think less, do more.
Practice 3 hours a day for 10 years.
If that doesn't do the trick. Quit. |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | STANDING : ..
I never meant to " Put ye Right "..
It was Only meant as a Re- assurance that what IAN S was talkin` bout was understood .. albeit in a " Danish way " ..
I , fer One , have read many of y`er Exellent posts , and therefore Know that yer allways Sincere , ..and that yer Good company , .. Cheers !!
Vic |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Originally posted by FlicKreno aka Solid Top:
I , fer One , have read many of y`er Exellent posts , and therefore Know that yer allways Sincere , ..and that yer Good company , .. Cheers !!
Vic Now you ARE being sarcastic… ;)
But thanks, I'm glad I learned something new.
I've got it now; if you tell me to play a "B" and I play what I think is a "B", you'll say; "no, it's a half-step down from an "H", I'd have to guess that a half step down from an "H" must be G#, so I'd still play the wrong note. Who's on first? That's right! ;)
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Posts: 2336
Location: Brighty in Blighty | Practise, then more practise. Use a metronome. I find slowing it down and even breaking it down even further, i.e. play the first 4 notes over and over again then the 2nd 4, then put it together. |
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September 2009
Posts: 144
Location: SW Washington | There is a syncopated part in "Last Steam Engine Train" where it is going back and forth between an A chord and an E chord that gives my right hand fits and I am thinking some of these suggestions may help me with that... Off to practice and try them out! Thanks guys! |
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December 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Denmark | :p I should have known better ... no offense taken. |
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Joined:
June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | Thanks everyone. (although some of you seemed to be answering a different question - thanks for the tips anyway :) )
Mark - Yes, I do that too - one moment I'm doing a hammer on in Classical Gas and suddenly find myself playing Bert Jansch's Angie - LOL all good fun though.
Moody - I can usually figure out my own way to pick through any complex passages - as I said though, it isn't the complex bits I have trouble with (well, I do, but that's a different problem) - I mean they don't come any simpler than that example I posted - it's the short simple passages (I call them 'rolls') that are repeated many times where I find my hands seizing up - somebody called it a 'fit' - yes, I can relate to that.
dobro - Yes, thanks - tapping my foot does appear to help.
Many other replies explained how to play that tab sample I started with - thanks - but that was just a sample - I just posted something really simple as a way to indicate the kind of thing I find problematic - playing things like that one or twice isn't a problem but in some tunes they're repeated over and over as a fast 'roll' and that's where I find my hands go off in the wrong direction and the purpose of my post was to find out how many other people have this problem playing the same few notes over and over as a roll. |
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April 2008
Posts: 2336
Location: Brighty in Blighty | Again the answer is to play it SLOOOOOOOOOOW and get it programmed into the muscle memory. |
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June 2006
Posts: 106
Location: UK | Thanks dweezil.
I had to go back and read my original post to remind myself what I asked.
As I said - when I'm learning a tune and playing it slow I don't have a problem - even when I start practicing at performance speed I don't have a problem - But - once it's in the muscle memory - when I can play it without thinking - that's when the problem starts. |
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April 2008
Posts: 2336
Location: Brighty in Blighty | Then don't stop thinking, concentrate on what you are doing! |
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March 2007
Posts: 698
Location: Cork, Ireland | Seems we can use different parts of our brain to play music - the 'autopilot' where we play without thinking about it, and the other kind where we are 'reading' the music (from a sheet, from copying someone etc.) I 'd say ideally we'd be able to use both at the same time but I don't know if the human brain/body complex is capable of that - in my case it's one or the other. And autopilot can be 'wrong'(i.e. what we learned may not be the same as what we originally heard). |
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Any playing Tips ?