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Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | 
Arrived like this - sorry for not so high quality/blurryish pictures - the camera here at work isn't amazing. If you can see what's going on here, can they be fixed easily? Is it worth getting upset over? Is it likely that all of these things happened during transportation (from New York to Keene, NH - about 4 hour normal drive).
Thanks.... |
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Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by 9thAnimus:
Is it likely that all of these things happened during transportation (from New York to Keene, NH - about 4 hour normal drive) ?!?!? Was it not in a case and bouncing around in the bed of a pickup truck?
Light scratches and pick marks can be buffed out with something like Behlen's #5 instrument polish. Some people swear by Guitar Scratch Remover (I haven't tried it, but I have some on order).
There's a step-by-step tutorial on how to treat finish cracks and gouges in the FAQ (about halfway down the page). |
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October 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | Transported by UPS.
The seller tells me these things are common and he did not notice them...they jumped out at me the moment I opened the case. Looking for opinions on if I should be accepting, reasonably upset, or unreasonably mad. I don't understand how these went unnoticed. |
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Posts: 3969
| Those sorts of dings and gouges most certainly did NOT happen in transit if the guitar was in its original case.
I'd have to ask some hard questions of the seller at this point. Sounds like there wasn't full disclosure of condition. Maybe you can talk him into a partial refund. |
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Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | It was very well packaged, in its original case. |
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Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | I agree with G8r. Those are not from shipping. The seller is BS'ing you and he most certainly was aware of them B/4 shipping, Of course if he's blind................. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | The only way it could have happened in during shipping is if there was something loose in the case (battery, case key, etc.). Otherwise I'm with G8r and BT.
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Posts: 3969
| I like the "...these things are common..." line. Yeah, they're common if you're a clumsy oaf who makes a habit of smacking your guitar top into sharp edges and hard pointy objects. There's no excuse in my book for being that careless. Yeah, accidents can happen when you're out gigging, but those are few and far between (or should be if you have any sense). |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | But how does it SOUND? If the sound doesn't thrill you, go for a refund!If you love the sound, go for a partial refund and then either play it as is, or get it fixed. |
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Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | Eh - he gave me $50 off ($500 total price for a '99 Ovation Custom Legend 1869 Cherryburst, a discontinued model I'm told). I'm going to check with a local shop and ask them about cost to repair. It seems it's not structural damage but the ring on the f-hole has popped up off the body and that concerns me. I'm at work so I haven't had much chance to actually play it. But it did hold its tuning pretty damn well through the shipping, so that's a plus! |
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Posts: 129
Location: UK | Mmm, i wouldn't be happy at all. I reckon these were prior to transport, especially as the guitar was shipped in it's original case. I concur with the guys above. |
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Posts: 3969
| Well, at least you something back. You can glue the rosette down with a drop of superglue - assuming none of the abalone is missing from under it. For future reference, guitars should be tuned down a step for shipping. That takes tension off the neck and makes it less likely the peghead/neck can crack if the thing is dropped hard, which could happen even inside the case. |
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Location: Keene, NH | G8r - how do I tell if the abalone is there or not? Or is that not an answerable question without seeing the guitar :) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The abalone is that shiney stuff in the rosette. You'd be able to see if it's missing. By the way, a round hole isn't an "f-hole". F-holes are shaped like fs, like in violins. Some guitars have f-holes, so when I read a post that talks about the f-hole, I go back to see if you were talking about the same guitar.
You just took a risk buying from someone you didn't know and a guitar you couldn't try out. He didn't burn you, but those dings should have been disclosed. |
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Posts: 4043
Location: Utah | From my experience as a shopper and visitor to eBay, the OFC for-sale forum, and other guitar forums, I'd say that guitar is pretty beat.
Now, there are used guitars that look much, much, much worse. But, the point is that the guitar you received is nowhere near "average" or "typical" of guitars in that price range.
Most listings will say something like "small ding near bridge" or "chip on headstock", and there's a photo. Many times the damage is so minor that it is nearly impossible to photograph, yet the seller discloses the damage and has a photo of it in the listing.
You have multiple dings through the surface finish and some kind of major scrape/scratch/ding along next to the neck. Any one of those marks would merit mention in the listing. One of the minor dings would be acceptable as normal in a used guitar as long as it were fully disclosed prior to sale. The amount of damage to that top, in my opinion, makes that guitar moderately damaged beyond normal. To be clear, I would call that a damaged guitar, not a typical used guitar.
On an Ovation that is a few years old, you would expect to have some minor fret wear and maybe one of the dings in your photos. The average selling price would reflect that. A mint condition instrument would command a little more $.
In my opinion, assuming that $500 is a typical selling price for that model in good condition these days, I would estimate the damage to be $150 or $200 reduction in value. In other words, the seller owes you more than fifty bucks in my opinion. Others may differ on the numbers, but to me the damage is a significant detraction from the instrument. If that model normally sells used for $700, then $450 is reasonable. But if $500 is an average selling price, then a $50 refund would not be enough to satisfy me.
I would send it back for full refund if it were me, simply on the basis of false representation. If you are happy with the price after adjustment, and the cosmetics don't bother you, and if you like the guitar otherwise, keep it. But you can find guitars all day long that are in much better condition than that one. So it is a matter of price for what you got and if you are happy with it. |
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Posts: 1433
Location: Right now? | In my opinion, assuming that $500 is a typical selling price for that model in good condition these days
Fly, "Typical"? Really? I think that is a GREAT price for that guitar. I've seen some going for some pretty low prices, considering it is such a beautiful guitar (and usually sounds beautiful), but $500? I figured the lousy U.S. economy is the reason. The price would have been a tip off for me to look VERY carefully at what the seller was selling. I really love my SSB CLs. I think everyone of them sounds great.
That seller was deceptive, fer sure. With those 'chunks' shown in the photo, I'd think $500 would be about right, no? At least they won't affect the sound, and those red ones are GORGEOUS.
Trouble is, because of the color of the guitar, those dings will be very noticeable and a problem if the owner wants to resell her. Then again, we ARE looking at close up photos, and maybe they are not so noticeable if a person has average to poor eyesight, that is. I think the buyer got a pretty good deal, unless there are other problems with her.
;)
Willa |
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Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | Can those dings be fixed?? I'm kind of with Fly - it just pisses me off that he didn't fully disclose how the thing looks. |
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Posts: 381
Location: Miami | FlySig +1
For starters, another $100 just to get the guitar fixed, whether you fix it or not. I don't want to repeat what else I would tell the seller here. |
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Location: Right now? | 9th, I'd be pissed off, too, but I sincerely think you did pretty good on the deal. Can you show us a photo of the entire guitar so we can see just how noticeable they are from "afar"?
I love the red ones!
;)
Willa |
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October 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | I will post pictures when I can - currently at work for the next 2 hours. It's my understanding that this is an excellent guitar and $500 is a good price for it. I simply don't like being lied to.
But who does? |
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Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | One or 2 dings probably aren't worth fixing for most people. Several of them, like you have, would mean the cost of repair would probably equal what you paid and then you'd have more into the guitar than what it's worth. I don't know if the seller would have been able to get what you paid, if he had disclosed all the dings. Maybe. |
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Posts: 639
Location: NW of Philadelphia | I agree, no way he could miss that. Get a quote on a repair and try and get at least half from the seller. Be sure to note that he will be getting a negative feedback (and use it in your negotiations). Then either send it back (seller to pay the shipping), fix it yourself, or leave it be and enjoy.
As to "Can they be fixed easily?" Yes and no.
You can fill the dents and cracks but you will still see the dings under the finish when you are done. I had a similar ding in my Balladeer when it arrived. I preferred the ding be sealed. I asked here and Mother about it, got basic instructions and did it myself (see below). Just be careful and patient (neither are my strong suits).
- Tape off the unaffected areas
- use cyano acrylate (quality superglue) to fill the cracks and dents
- do so in several layers, letting it harden in between
- sand the raise glue bubble down flush and smooth (use 800-1200 grit final sand)
- polish it out with Maguire's X or similar polish
- Stand back and admire your handy work
- play the hell out of it. |
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Posts: 78
Location: Keene, NH | Joe thanks for the tips! I will have to do that - maybe I can find a video online about it first. |
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Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Auriemma:
Be sure to note that he will be getting a negative feedback (and use it in your negotiations). Uh, uh, uhhh. Policy forbids that. "Members can’t threaten others with neutral or negative Feedback or require that specific Feedback be left."
Or... if you do be sure to phrase it very subtly.
A better approach might be to let the seller know you are considering filing a SNAD with ebay because the damage is so obvious and not mentioned in the listing.
Make sure you keep all the communication you've had with the seller. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Red Sharpie!
And yes, he scammed you. Those did not happen in transit, and he knew all about them.
You managed to photograph them without using an "Amazing Camera"... so he coulda too.
Regardless of who thinks what is a good deal, for $500 I would expect to know about the dents.
Now, the real question is... "How does it Sound?"
Also, how does it feel? And How do YOU feel?
Are them little dents gonna piss-you-off every time you look at them? :mad:
If so... You either need some compensation (more than $50) or to return it.
If you got this through evilBay/PayPal, you can get reimbursed for the item and shipping...
But you will have to pay return shipping. And you would have to go through the 'Resolution Center'.
Now... The Nice Part of you brain may be saying, "I don't wanna be a Total Jerk!" :rolleyes:
But understand, this person was intentionally misleading,
and then lied to you by trying to tell you that this is "normal".
He is Not Your Friend!
Start from the (correct) assumption that is is trying to Scam you...
Then nail his butt to the wall! :cool:
This will get your money back, or your guitar for what it is really worth...
Plus it may deter this guy from scamming guitar people again. |
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Posts: 3969
| +1 Arthur, nice summary.
My one bad experience buying a guitar off eBay (chronicled here a couple of years ago), the item was SNAD (Significantly Not As Described). I tried politely negotiating with the seller, was blown off, and filed a SNAD with PayPal's and eBay's Dispute Resolution Center. I described the issues (without emotion or name-calling), supplied the original listing, all communications I had with the seller before and after the sale, and hi-res pictures of all the non-disclosed issues with the guitar. After about a month, PayPal found in my favor and forced the seller to take back the guitar and refund my money. |
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Posts: 815
Location: Colorado | +1 on what OMA said. If you paid with PayPal in an eBay auction you should be covered for the full purchase price. I have used the eBay resolution center before with success and it took about a week to get sorted out, but it wasn't for a guitar.
I feel for you since your expectations were not met at all. This guitar spent just enough time in the wrong hands.
Personally, I would be willing to pay to ship it back and get my $500 back. There may be underlying problems that haven't made themselves known yet, too.
Keep us posted--best of luck. |
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October 2005
Posts: 4043
Location: Utah | Originally posted by WillaMuse:
Fly, "Typical"? Really? I think that is a GREAT price for that guitar.
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I think the buyer got a pretty good deal, unless there are other problems with her.
Perhaps my post wasn't clear. I don't know what an average price is today for that guitar. If, as you say, the price is low for that guitar, then the deal might be acceptable in dollar terms. The buyer needs to do some homework to determine if $500 is fair for a guitar with that much undisclosed damage. |
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September 2003
Posts: 815
Location: Colorado | G8r slipped in there while I was typing. So +2 on what OMA said.
And Sig is right. This is totally subject to what the buyer thinks is acceptable. Would I have paid $500 knowing what we all know now? Certainly not. |
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Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Bad bumps but still a nice guitar and not a bad price. If you are in NH it might be worth a trip to CT for the best possible work.
Poly finish is tricky but if the bad dings are cleaned out and the wodd steamed/expanded then drop filled with Cyano they would be less noticeable.
Just play the crap out of it. |
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May 2009
Posts: 325
Location: Utica, NY | I also agree wholeheartedly with OMA and others that you were mislead and if those things bug you every time you pick it up (as they would me regardless of price) I'd be looking for a return. It seems to me that dings would be very hard to make look right.
It was an incident with an E-Bay purchase the brought me here the first time for advice and it was OMA's 'fatherly' to either (and I paraphrase) sh*t or get off and ship complaining advice that launched me into action. PayPal was extremely helpful and responsive and while I lost the return shipping I was happy (as it was said earlier) to recoup the majority of my purchase price.
FWIW, I have found that guitars that I have purchased outside this group have always been a risk and everyone that I have bought (and sold) within the group has been outstanding in every way because, I believe, there's a caring, an integrity and accountability amongst the group that avoids all the outside non-sense associated with this kind of transaction. It's fun to 'bring one home' from the outside but there are risks. I am holding my breath on one right now.
Good luck and go get your money back! |
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Posts: 3618
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I have been watching Ovations on Ebay for the last 9 years, and I have found that the SSB Elites and CLs in decent condition go for between $400-500. With the amount of damage on this one I'd call it a $400 guitar.(IF there is no structural damage, i.e., separated bracing, raised bridge, warped neck)Get an inspection mirror and a light and inspect the interior. Also check out the neck really well. If those things check out well and you can live with the dings and surface cracks, then you could request an additional 50 bucks to deal with the cosmetic damages. In the areas where the dings have exposed the bare wood, I personally would match the color with some artist gloss acrylic colors, apply the paint, then wipe off the excess and finish over it in the method mentioned above by the factory. If the sound of the shallow bowl doesn't float your boat in the next 24 hours, return it for a full refund, because you'll be kickin' yourself in the head later for not getting a medium or deep bowl. |
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Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | Motives and truth are some of the best reasons to shop within the OFC. I try to offer those in my Ebay sales as well but you can't always tell in the online market.
It's like buying a dog. Around here your getting a family member, fleas or not.
By the way - I like that CL and if you want to trade it away take a look in my Ning site albums and see what catches your eye. |
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Can these be fixed easily?