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Location: SoCal | Ran across a chord last night at band practice and don't recognize the symbol. It's a B chord with a small circle next to the B notation. Diminished? Augmented? I had the piano player get me the notes in the chord, but it doesn't make sense to me.
All you guys who know theory, what is it? |
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Location: Tennessee | That's a 4th. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Diminished. |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by stonebobbo:
That's a 4th. 4th chord? I can't learn that. That's what scares me.... |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Diminished. Don't think it's a diminished. Doesn't fit the chord sequence... |
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Location: everywhere | diminished 7th |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | First string - 4th fret
Second string - 3rd fret
Third string - 4th fret
Fourth string - 3rd fret
Your bass E and your A string are not played.
You can also slide that exact same position up to the 6th and 7th frets, or to the 9th and 10th frets, or the 12th and 13th frets. Actually the 9th and 10th has a B bass, so it is "most correct", but it can usually be played as an inversion chord. You will see that in all of these positions, the notes are the same - just different octaves and in different orders. Diminished chords are magic! |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Paul;
Check this site out: Chord Symbology
...scroll down to the Diminished..... Alison is correct. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Caravan, a diminished 7th would look like this - B*7. (I had to use the * 'cause this keyboard doesn't have a circle.)
I PROMISE - B* is a B diminished. |
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Location: SoCal | Maybe you guys are right. Alison, I know the dimiminshed chords (and love them -- great fun sliding them up and down the neck). Never seen it written that way and I'm always distrustful of chord charts written out by piano players. I'll give it a try when the group gets together next.
Tim, interesting website. I've bookmarked it and will go thru it later today.... |
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Location: Yucaipa, California | Paul,
...just curious... when you learn a new chord, do you automatically forget one previous chord so that you only have 3 chords in memory at any given time? |
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Location: SoCal | Tim, don't tell anybody, but I'm actually working on my 5th chord. But if I tell everybody I only know 3, they don't expect too much from me.
I decided to start learning more chords about 4 years ago when the picture of my book from church, "3 Chord Conversions" was posted by Noah when I got my 87C. Since then I've been working hard and am now working on my 5th chord.... |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Caravan, a diminished 7th would look like this - B*7. (I had to use the * 'cause this keyboard doesn't have a circle.)
I PROMISE - B* is a B diminished. Nope, Caravan is absolutely correct, it's a diminished 7th. The basic Diminished triad uses the formula Root - minor 3rd - minor 3rd, which in this case is F Ab B, if we take the lowest note as the root. The 4th note which produces the 7th voicing is the D. If it was just a basic diminished triad there would be, by definition, only 3 notes.
Paul, remember that any of the 4 notes in a Dim 7 can be the root, so the chord has 4 possible names and 1 of them will fit key of the chord progression. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | +1 on diminished. These are the suspenseful sounding chords. Using Alison's tab, start at the first fret for the first line of text below, then move up three frets on each successive line . . . you get the picture.
Oh no, he's kidnapped the Princess.
He's tying her up.
He's laying her down on the tracks,
And now the train is coming! |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by ProfessorBB:
Oh no, he's kidnapped the Princess.
He's tying her up.
He's laying her down on the tracks,
And now the train is coming! Lol! That's those chords exactly.... |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Paul, while you are correct that a true diminished IS a triad, it is almost always played the way I mentioned. BUT, the symbol Moody is talking about IS a B diminished. Perhaps that is why it didn't sound right to him. Instead of the four note chord, he should try the triad. |
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Location: closely held secret | From what I know, they're both right... depending.
Since all Moody told us was the symbol - B° - we would have to assume the music was calling for a B diminished triad (F,Ab,B). If the piano player told him to play a F,Ab,B and the D, it should have been written B°(7) or B°7, a diminished 7th chord.
So, what notes did he tell you to play, Paul? (and if he's so smart, why didn't he tell you what the ° meant?) |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Now I remember why, during that music theory course in college, I decided to go to law school. Much easier. |
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Location: Alagoas, Brazil | If it is like this Bº - it is a diminished chord, and it will be formed with the following notes: B, D, F and Ab. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Miguel, you show-off! :D You must be the only person I know who has that little "degree symbol" on their computer! |
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Location: Miami | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
From what I know, they're both right... depending.
If the piano player told him to play a F,Ab,B and the D, it should have been written B°(7) or B°7, a diminished 7th chord.
Exactly. And while we're on the diminished subject, don't forget to use your ear. That 7th can make or break the sound in the progression.
I had a friend of mine who had a knack for coming up with the coolest chord progressions. I asked him once what the heck he did that made one particular chord progression sound so good. Was it his use of an unexpected 7th? Was it a nice tense unresolved suspension? His answer was the single most important lesson I have ever learned in music theory:
"I don't know. It just sounded good." |
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Location: SoCal | John, SHE didn't recognize the chord symbol (being a piano player), but I ended up playing a three note chord on the D G & B strings, playing an F, Bb, and C#. The chords went F#7, whatever I just wrote, resolving to a Bm (that is if I actually knew what those chords were and could play them).... |
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Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Miguel - BR:
If it is like this Bº - it is a diminished chord, and it will be formed with the following notes: B, D, F and Ab. Exactly, and just as CR said, all those posts back, those notes produce a diminished 7th chord. There is no ambiguity or grey area here. It's a diminished 7th. Get your noses back in your theory books. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Well, after pulling my nose back out of my theory book, I still say that the symbol for a diminished seventh would be B*7. If it is just a diminished, the symbol is B*. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Miguel, you show-off! :D You must be the only person I know who has that little "degree symbol" on their computer! As much as I respect Miguel... Everyone has it...
~~~°<°
\~/ |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Where is it? I can't find one on my laptop. |
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Location: Atlanta GA | For once I can add something meaningful to a post.
Allison -the get the "°" symbol hold the alt key down and type 0176 and magically the ° symbol appears. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Thanks Watchme, but it didn't work for me. When I hold down the alt key and type, nothing happens. :( |
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Location: Atlanta GA | Alison
try it again... it's after you finish typing and release the alt key the ° appears.
Hold the alt key down and type 0176 and release the alt key. |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | I looked it up, and you have to use the number grid on the side of your keyboard for that to work. I don't have one of those. I guess I would have to cut and paste to get it, and it just isn't that important. The * works well enough, or I could just type the word degree, or diminished. Thanks though. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Alison - now that one person has posted the °, all you have to do is copy it from that post. |
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Location: Atlanta GA | "For once I can add something meaningful to a post."
Nevermind... |
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Location: closely held secret | Watchme, it would have worked for her if she had turned the numlock on and used the alpha-numeric keys...
Good sleuthing, by the way. Mike just had to go and blab the easy way to do it. ;) |
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Location: UK | Wow - all this talk of chords (4ths, diminished and what-have-you) is real confusing - I'm just glad I don't know "any". |
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Location: San Bernardino, California | Diminished & Half-Diminished |
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Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
First string - 4th fret
Second string - 3rd fret
Third string - 4th fret
Fourth string - 3rd fret
Your bass E and your A string are not played.
AHA! So that's what it is. I wrote a blues song about 20 years ago with that in it ... never knew what it was. I just found it when I was noodling around. Heck, I don't know what half the chords are in that song, but what the hell, it sounds good and it works. In the key of G7 no less.
Ian ... the 4th thing is sort of an inside joke. I'm not sure there is even such a beast. But someone had to say it. :cool: |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Originally posted by The Wabbit Formerly Known As Waskel:
Watchme, it would have worked for her if she had turned the numlock on and used the alpha-numeric keys...
Good sleuthing, by the way. Mike just had to go and blab the easy way to do it. ;) I have to do this all the time at work. We use a lot of Greek letters. It's always easier to cut and paste. |
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Location: Scotland | Edit: Because very few of you are worth my valuable time, effort and input. |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Now yer talkin' |
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Location: Alagoas, Brazil | Well, here in Brazil we have modified keyboards, so we can type all those things at once:
âãôõ§ªºüöáàíéó ^~´`¨
When I get back to the USA I´ll just bring Alison a Brazilian Keyboard and she´ll have lots of fun... |
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Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Isn't that funny. MOST people here ARE worth MY valuable time, effort and input. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Now I remember why, during that music theory course in college, I decided to go to law school. Much easier. Don't lawyers ever have to plead "diminished capacity" for a client? How about defending a client against "contributing to the delinquency of A Minor"? Didn't you ever dream of arguing a Constitutional issue in front of The Supremes? |
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Location: everywhere | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Isn't that funny. MOST people here ARE worth MY valuable time, effort and input. and that's is exactly why you, Alison, and rest of your "nicey-nice" cronies are fucking this site up. It's all just too damn "nice" and there are a bunch of people who don't need "nice" in their lives because we all know "nice" has nothing to do with reality.
A while ago I'd say "blow me", but let let me tell you, you couldn't pay me enough to let you blow me. I'd rather let Cliff do it for free while Beal watched and Moody jerked off. |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Paul, it really is a B demented chord
And it is the fourth chord and you probably want to stay away from it.
Now as to whether it's a demented 7th or a full demolished chord, I'm not going to get into that |
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Location: Scotland | if it involves a "Flattered Turd" you need to be careful. There are way too many of those around here |
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Location: on the web | Wow, CR. Even I find that mildly offensive. Not what you said so much as the image it evokes. |
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Location: Utah | The "ignore" function on this forum should be enabled so we don't have to try to unsee what we wish we hadn't seen. |
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Location: NJ | CR you get a vacation that is over the line
dammit I got to a guitar show one day come home tired and to this BS
take it somewhere else PLEASE |
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What chord?