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Location: Texas | warnng: long rant ahead…
I may be way out-of-line even bringing this up here, but it seems that we get a lot of new "members" cruising through with a "how much is this worth?" question, who promptly disappear afterward. I won't list a reference link, but there was a recent thread where a brand-new member was very belligerent because they received a couple of wise-crack responses (from very active and long-time members) that didn't give them the answer they wanted immediately. Although they usually claim to have been “lurking for a while” or “long-time readers”, anyone who has really read this forum regularly knows that such "banter" is common, and all in good fun.
Plus, with a minimum of effort, they could have read the OFC faq first, which includes an informative discussion of the question; “what is my guitar worth?”
There’s an active thread right now started by a new member with a sudden interest in buying an old Adamas 1 as their first-ever Ovation, perhaps first guitar, who knows next-to-nothing about the Adamas yet who wants to know “what it’s worth?” Why would someone who has never owned, purchased or had any interest in an Ovation be looking at such an old Adamas I in the first place? And why would that person join the OFC to ask for a cost estimate with no concept of the value, without doing a little searching on EBay/Craig's list/our FAQ/etc, first? And why do we do it for them?
Am I just too cynical, or aren’t these posts often really from Prawn Shopz? (That was intentionally misspelled so they don’t find this thread easily in a search, henceforth, I will use the abbreviation “PS”) ;) Are they just too lazy to do any research and/or in a hurry to decide how much (or little) to pay for a guitar someone just brought in? Are they just too cheap to purchase hard-copies or online blue-books and/or similar resources?
I'm not even sure how I should feel about such "members," but I find it somewhat offensive that a business would masquerade as an individual Ovation Fan just because they are too lazy to do some research. I guess it’s just a side-effect of the OFC’s reputation for having a highly knowledgeable brain-trust on the subject participating in an open forum.
This has probably been discussed in the past, and I have seen a few unkind replies posted to the more blatantly obvious listings. Is there an official or unofficial policy on such things? Am I wrong to dismiss such postings? (I’ve recently started just simply replying “PS” to such posts to indicate my disdain.) I would hate to dismiss new members with genuine intentions, so maybe I should just lighten up?
I’m sure we have contributing members who own or are employed by PS’s, and we certainly have members (including our founders) who acknowledge that they own guitar shops and/or related businesses. I think that’s fine, as long as they don’t pretend to be something else.
And if one of you new members have read this far and really are legitimately as you represented, I apologize for jumping to conclusions…
I guess I just have such a strong passion for Ovation/Adamas guitars that I prefer to participate and interact with folks with that common dedication, or a legitimate interest in drinking the Koolaid, but not those using our forum for a quick information source just to make a couple extra bucks… that just seems a little sacrilegious here in the “Church of Ovation”…
If there is some official, unofficial or even unpublished “policy” on the subject from the more experienced members here, please PM me with that information?
Sorry for the long rant, it’s been brewing in my feeble little mind for a while now… ;)
-standing- |
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Posts: 1281
Location: Ohio | How about this,,,,,
If a question is asked by a new "MEMBER", no wisa ass comments. At least until there are here for a while and get used to the good natured ribbing? SOme people are a bit touchy when thye donlt really kn ow anyone....
Just MY 2 cents
Steve |
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Location: Flahdaw | I never thought about it, but I guess they could be PS folks...although I have been cruising the PS's lately looking for bargains and all they have is CRAP....it seems they don't want anything of value and that would include nice Ovations or Adamas's. Around here all they want is tools from laid off construction workers.
That said, we are a forum, and if someone wants to answer these people and give them the correct advice then have at it. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Hey Steve... If you search the Archives, this forum was A LOT ruder a few years ago. :p
[Recently some folks have expressed a desire to go back to those Good Ole Daze]
As to people using this place for price research... I can understand your annoyance.
I kinda get annoyed when I actually take the time outta my boring day to do the research to give someone a good answer, and they never seem to return to mention if they even read that info.
You can also mention the folks that only show-up to try to sell an Ovation for way-more than it is worth...
Cuz they read the Blue Book or the MSRP somewhere and really believe that their Elite T is worth $1600. And they don't make them anymore, so here is your the last chance to get one.
Over on the BC Rich Players Community, you are not allowed to try to sell anything until you have 20 posts... This keeps people from trying to sell their Platinum Warlock for $700 cuz it sez Platinum on it! |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | If something seems suspicious just don't post to it...if they get ignored, and they're ingenuous, they'll probably go away...if they're real, they'll probably stick around and research it themselves...
as to who can and can't buy an older Adamas, I'd guess if they have the bucks, and pony it up, they get the guitar...I've never seen any w/pre-qualifications... |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Well, we are free and available to the whole Planet.
I do appreciate different views but I think lewdness and trash talk don't belong here at all.
If a PS asks "what is this vintage, rare, original prototype" worth then they deserve an honest answer:
Tree-fitty |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I think we need to give the new postee the benefit of the doubt (what seems mundane and juvenile and trite to us is probably where we once were ourselves)...if something seems off base, lewd, crude, and obscene I have decided to ignore it but report it...entirely too much has recently occurred...
Mike, I agree and you said it very well: I do appreciate different views but I think lewdness and trash talk don't belong here at all. nuff said! |
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Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I agree ... Just because we CAN post a rude statement doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. |
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Location: Colorado | Well said Vince. Thanks for not holding my lurking-presence against me. ;)
Standing, thanks for sharing how you feel as I'm sure there are others that feel very much the same as you. I don't spend much time here, but I also tire of seeing newbies posting to get info on something that they "have their sights on". It's easy to suppose their motives are insincere and sometimes work to give them the benefit of the doubt. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | STANDING ..
.. as usual Ye`ve got a point ..yet, in this " free " world , .. ya know what I mean.. and that`s how it is ..
Vic |
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Location: ms | Man when i joined i was trying to find a guitar and i got called everything from a "hit and run" to a " drive by" you had to have thick skin back then to hang with these guys. |
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Location: Upper Left USA | When I checked in Moody told me search the archives with a Margarita...
Now I just hang around because I feel bad for Alpep. Poor guy's a lousy salesman you know, needs all the support he can get. |
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Posts: 766
Location: New Hampsha | Originally posted by gulfcoast:
Man when i joined i was trying to find a guitar and i got called everything from a "hit and run" to a " drive by" you had to have thick skin back then to hang with these guys. Ronnie,
that was back when Tuppy was still here.
Thank God he's gone! ;) |
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Posts: 381
Location: Miami | I do what I always do with posts that have insults or people getting offended by those insults: I take them ALL with a grain of salt.
What else can you do? Especially with adolescent comments that have nothing to do with the topic (exemplified by 99% of YouTube comments that begin with an actual commentary on the video clip, and end with adolescents insulting each other). I wish, like vendor phone calls and junk mail, that these would all just go away. So I do the only thing that works: I ignore them.
Besides, I can't NOT post a good poke at someone when I think of a really good one ;-)
If you're a newbie who can't get an estimated value on your first reply cuz the regulars are sharing a joke or two, get over it! Hang out for another day or two and you'll get a legit answer (along with some good laughs if you have a humorous bone in your body).
The more I browse the OFC, the more I like it. I've literally laughed out loud while perusing for O-related info. The cynical ones and impatient ones won't last. And when they do and cross the line, Al gives them a nice vacation :-)
OFC rules. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Originally posted by gulfcoast:
Man when i joined i was trying to find a guitar and i got called everything from a "hit and run" to a " drive by" you had to have thick skin back then to hang with these guys. My 1st post included a couple of pics of my original "slothead" which resulted in a few "gasps" and "gulps" from some to one member which stated that it was an obvious copy (and not a very good one, at that) and was offered tree-fiddy for it.
I knew then this was a "nice place to be". |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | When I first stopped here nobody wanted to talk to me cuz I wanted information Korean Balladeer and I was told to buy a Real Ovation!
(Nobody wanted to admit that they didn't know what a 4861 was... I actually Miss that Guitar) |
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Location: ms | I do miss the old days. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by ''Jukebox Joe'' Tuñón:
The cynical ones and impatient ones won't last. They've lasted this long. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by MWoody:
When I checked in Moody told me search the archives with a Margarita... And it was good advice, wasn't it?
This place has changed. That's not bad and it's not good, it just is.
It used to be a corner pub where you'd go to hang with buddies, have a beer (or margarita), insult each other in a friendly sort of way, share some information, and just enjoy. Not everybody was comfortable with it and not everybody hung around.
Now it's more like a yuppie bar. Gotta be more PC, watch what you say, remember that there are delicate sensibilities (guys and girls), and don't be as sarcastic as we used to be. Just recently, there was a post from a virgin that I responded to because it struck me as odd. Somebody who I consider to be a newbie came down on me for being "sarcastic". Not even close. When I'm being sarcastic not one person calls me on it. Everybody does.
Is this place better or worse than it was? Don't know. I do know that I don't post as often as I used to and that there are people who used to be quite active who now very very rarely post.
The place has changed. Hope you newbies enjoy it as much as we did. It won't be for the same reasons..... |
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Posts: 815
Location: Colorado | This place has changed, but I don't think it's a bad thing.
I looked back at my first posts (from 2003) over the last half hour or so. I did have some prior experience with O's and A's before joining the forum, but I still hadn't begun to scratch the surface. I asked for info and advice and all who responded were polite and helpful. CWK2 and Al were great.
I was (and still am) appreciative that I was allowed to join, what already seemed to be, a close-knit group of people that love their Ovations. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | OFC has changed .. ??..whem wuz zat ..?? ,, |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Oh.. I mussa be 1 o` zem nubeez .. No underzeeztand.. |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Typical social dynamics & evolution. Take it, or leave it. This ain't rocket science.....it's cheap entertainment & (hopefully) comraderie. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by seesquare:
Typical social dynamics & evolution. Take it, or leave it. This ain't rocket science.....it's cheap entertainment & (hopefully) comraderie. 1rst.. I`ll have ye know that my main mic. is a condensor ( nix dynamic ) ..
.. and I kindly ask ya to leave Isaac NEWTON out`ta this evolution/conversation thing .. and what`s wrong with being fond o` fireworks .. ? ..
.. Cheap .. ??! .. D`Ya know what my internet-connection costs me .. ?..
.. and on top of it all yer calling me a commie .. :D |
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Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'll shed some light on this... maybe dim.. but light...
Seriously.. there are soooo many different personalities out there that trying to 2nd guess anyones true meaning or reasoning on the Internet without getting to know them is just a disservice to them and yourself.
By the way, the first thing a new user sees, in the message that they get with their password or maybe just the welcome for joining, is to not ask "how much is it worth." So they already aren't paying attention... but what does that say? NOTHING!!! Because 99.9% of welcome messages you get to anywhere have little or nothing useful in them. Goes the same for seemingly not searching. 99.9% of the forums out there DO NOT have data going back 7+ years.. and nothing WORTH searching.
Rather than telling them to search, as I get email messages with those questions and others all the time (several a day) I just do a quick search and state in my response... "this is what I came up with in a quick search... you might try a more detailed search of the archives or use the supersearch (and I give the link) for more information" This method answers the question and gives them tools to get more information and shows them that the info is out there.
Sometimes, it's just a matter of they'd like to know. Someone has a guitar, someone inherited a guitar, they just ran across one, they know little or nothing about guitars or the brand... they care even less... but hey... what can a harmless question cause... it might be a jewel they never heard of. I know when I knew very little about Ovation acoustics I couldn't figure out the difference between a $400 models and the $2,500 dollar models I had never seen. I was playing my Medallion for over 20 years before I ever saw another made in USA ovation in person.
One thing that may help is to realize that there is a whole world of musicians out there that in general could give a rats ass what guitar they are playing as long as the things stays in tune for at least the length of a song. I have met several musicians over the years when asked what guitar they play respond with "whatever I get my hands on".. They are not gear heads like most of us. So they run across something, hear about something, and are just curious.
Well that's all I got.. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I have met several musicians over the years when asked what guitar they play respond with "whatever I get my hands on".. They are not gear heads like most of us. So they run across something, hear about something, and are just curious.
Well that's all I got.. .. and that sums it up ..
Vic |
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Posts: 747
| Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
... I have met several musicians over the years when asked what guitar they play respond with "whatever I get my hands on".. Well I skimmed through this thread pretty quick and was gonna give it the click but I noticed this line and I'd have to agree. I'd also add that there's been a few great song writers/players who only had one guitar at a time and had to make do with what they could get their hands on, by gift or otherwise, because they were too broke from trying to make a living out of music. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | When I joined in 2002, four members in particular took me under their wing and we have been best of friends ever since. Never would have happened if they just blew me off.
However, it's pretty obvious that a certain percent of new posters are just ass monkeys looking for confirmation of what they think they know but haven't really got a fucking clue. The best drive-by postings go something like this ...
New member "How much is my legend worth"
Old guard "500."
New member "No way, it's worth twice that much"
Old guard responds "Then blow me" and gets a vacation. OK, call me cynical ...
I used to feel like I had to respond to every one of these dip shit questions, either by giving a serious answer or at least kicking the trash to the side of the road. But the nice thing now is that you can just sit back and ignore it and any number of the other 7000 members will pick up the sword and carry on. And I guess THAT is the beauty of the OFC.
1888 and counting ... |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | I ignore the price questions.
sure e bay is a barometer but it is not always the true value.
if someone wants to know for insurance purposes they can pay me $50 for appraisal but that happens rarely.
most of the time it is a drive by and I ignore them |
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Location: Pacific Northwest Inland Empire | Esteemed Colleague: "Then blow me"
Ah, the value of brevity. Well-done! |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
When I joined in 2002, four members in particular took me under their wing and we have been best of friends ever since. Never would have happened if they just blew me off. There's probably six guys counting on their fingers "is her talking about ME" ? |
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Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
Originally posted by Gallerinski:
When I joined in 2002, four members in particular took me under their wing and we have been best of friends ever since. Never would have happened if they just blew me off. There's probably six guys counting on their fingers "is her talking about ME" ? |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Moody was No. 5 |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Wonder which finger he was? |
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Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany |  I'm not in that long... but it is (also) this kind of conversation that makes me enjoy my stay a lot. Thank you guys... |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | the favorite one.
I think the newtbies neesd a wise ass answer right away, if they can handle it, they can stay. That is assuming they ask a question that deserves it. If not they can go clean carpet spoo.
Some new guys are fine from the get go and ask good insiteful or serious questions. |
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Location: ms | I just can`t stand that "what kind of pic should i use on my Ovation" i hate to sound like Temp but if you have to ask. |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I thought the humour test was the most important part of the vetting process here....
Now, what translates as 'humour' varies a lot by culture. As this is now a pretty international group there's bound to be a few things 'lost in translation'.
Price questions? Hey, it's just a question. Don't answer if you don't wanna.
Don't like the sound of the posts one member or another puts up? Isn't there an 'ignore' button around here somewhere? (just found it again. click on the members name, bottom of their ID page is a line saying "add to your ignore list"...) |
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Location: SoCal | Always thought it was interesting that for the first 5 years of the OFC there were no problems and no discussions like this one. Everybody either got along or if they didn't like it, left.... |
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Posts: 381
Location: Miami | Originally posted by PsychoBunny:
Originally posted by ''Jukebox Joe'' Tuñón:
The cynical ones and impatient ones won't last. They've lasted this long.
Like the good book says, "The cynical and impatient you will always have with you." Oh wait, that was the poor. Never mind ;-) |
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Location: Cicero, NY | "Everybody either got along or if they didn't like it, left...."
A very underrated option. |
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Location: closely held secret | Or at least underused. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by fillhixx:
I thought the humour test was the most important part of the vetting process here....
Now, what translates as 'humour' varies a lot by culture. As this is now a pretty international group there's bound to be a few things 'lost in translation'. Walking through a screen door has to be funny in any culture. I bet they do it on Britain's, France's, Germany's, Italy's or Australia's Funniest Home Videos. And I know I've worn out that joke fillhixx, but I still get a chuckle whenever I think of it, so I keep thinking of it.
As a newbie, it did take some getting used to some of the crusty old farts around here, but the newbies should figure out that some of these guys have a right to be tired of the same question for the thousandth time. Some of them just have the right to be tired. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Who cares if it's prawn shops? Me, I got other worries. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | How much is my guitar worth? |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Conflict among members of ANY forum should be played out the same as in the hardware store...
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and leave it at that!!! |
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Location: Hanau, Hessen, Germany | Originally posted by TAFKAR:
How much is my guitar worth? Tree-fitty
:D |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | If I can bring a smile to a lawyers face my day is made.
....without writing a check, I mean! |
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Location: Upper Left USA | "Squid pro Quo"
(cash it before the ink dries) |
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Location: Texas | Wow, I didn't expect my grumpy weekend diatribe to elicit so much discussion, but I sure find it interesting and very entertaining…
I don’t feel that I have enough seniority or authority here to complain or demand anything, I consider myself a relative newbie, despite being an active member for about a year with a few hundred posts, (not to mention having played Ovations with Fred Flintstone.) So, for example, when a brand-new member with 3 posts, (two of which are in the “insomniac pop quiz”) starts berating our most active, knowledgeable and senior members for giving them anything less than a quick and accurate answer to their question that they posted 5 minutes ago, it’s sometimes hard to resist taking a jab back at them in defense of our members. It’s even worse when it seems obvious that they are not really who/what they claim to be. As several folks suggested earlier, I usually simply ignore the posts. I guess it just happened enough lately to set me off, so I started this thread instead of dumping on a newbie.
Yep, legitimate new members sometimes have to endure a little hazing, (but that’s nothing compared to what they’ll have to endure later… ;) and if they can’t take it or are offended, they probably should have looked around here more first to see what they were getting into. I know I did.
I don’t really care if its Prawn Shopz either, but their assumption that we are collectively gullible enough to believe some of their lame posts sometimes tempts me to call them out, that’s all…
Online or in person, anonymous or not, I just think that if you are seeking free advice from strangers, the least you could do is pretend to be polite and respectful… AND be honest; please don’t tell us that your neighbor’s grandmother found a dusty old Adamas in the attic and gave it to you and now you really feel obligated to pay her what it’s worth, but you can’t post photos because granny took it to a seance to try to contact grandpa, and despite the fact that you “really don’t know anything about guitars,” you just happen to know the color, model number, serial number, year it was made and can accurately describe the condition of the neck, frets, etc.… followed by; “How much is this guitar worth?”
… I’m still going to post nothing more than “PS” in response to those… ;) |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by standing:
please don’t tell us that your neighbor’s grandmother found a dusty old Adamas in the attic and gave it to you and now you really feel obligated to pay her what it’s worth, but you can’t post photos because granny took it to a seance to try to contact grandpa,
;) :D :) :D
Would it be worth more when a plectrum is included.. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by FlicKreno aka Solid Top:
Would it be worth more when a plectrum is included.. …only with at least 4 of the original strings… |
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Posts: 1453
Location: Texas | Originally posted by FlicKreno aka Solid Top:
Would it be worth more when a plectrum is included.. …only with at least 4 of the original strings… |
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Location: Texas | (deleted; double post) |
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Location: Simpsonville, SC | Witty quips, getting an elbow or two jabbed into your ribs, being told to "do a f***ing search, Idiot", asking me how many scotches I have had tonight, ignoring my out of place replies.
I thought that this was the price of admission!
I'm a big boy, I gave as well as took, and am better for it.
If a newbie hangs for awhile, they may get it, if not, well they are in the wrong place and so be it.
As a newbie to some of the oldies, I don't always get it immediately, but hit me on the ass with a rolled-up paper long enough and......... |
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Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by Beggin:
If a newbie hangs for awhile, they may get it, if not, well they are in the wrong place and so be it. Yeah that's sorta how it used to work. But there is a new breed in town that doesn't take well to a forum that doesn't fall to it's knees and conform to THEIR lilly white candy assed political correctness, 'stead of the other way around. |
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Location: SoCal | Well said, James. And very accurate.
Maybe it was just a perfect storm of assholes that populated the OFC in the begining, but out of the first 200 members, there where quite a number of us who were/are socially unacceptable in polite company and loved getting and giving crap. Off the board, a big number of us still do.
Beggin, when you joined it still had that vibe to it. It still comes out occassionally, but it's irritating when instead of giving it back, we have newbies chastise us. That's a big reason why a number of early members are no longer here.
If you ever want some real fun, I'll recommend what I haven't in several years. Make some nachos, pour a margarita, and go thru the archives. You'll get a sense of what the board used to be like.
Hey, Jim, when the pseudo ning board was up, you got highly pissed at somebody named TANSTAAFL, when all he/she did was point out some basic truths. You ever find out who he/she is? Alison was just as mad..... |
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Location: Sunshine State, Australia | Originally posted by TAFKAR:
How much is my guitar worth? In the US - coupla hundred.
In Oz - coupla thousand. |
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February 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Up North | I know who TANSTAAFL is, but I sure as hell ain't telling! |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by muzza:
Originally posted by TAFKAR:
How much is my guitar worth? In the US - coupla hundred.
In Oz - coupla thousand. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | I don't get what the big deal is. Dense, I suppose. Maybe I started too late, but I thought it was a pretty nice group when I joined. Plenty of barbs, many deserved, but also plenty of help fulfilling mission of increasing the Ovation fan base. Very successful in my case. I started with a Matrix and an Applause 12. There were even times when one of the crustiest sent me a PM with a polite headsup about something. As a newbie, I really appreciated it. |
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Joined:
November 2006
Posts: 2241
Location: Simpsonville, SC | No Paul, I never did find out. Asked a couple of people, but it really didn't matter "who". As far as what TANSTAAFL means, yes, got it.
I learned, or relearned, two good things out of that "discussion" though.
1) it's ok to fight with your family, sometimes it's necessary!
2) In the end, they are still your family and "Blood is thicker than water" (I have 3 older brothers, with varying ideaologies, we have often fought like Hell......they will always be my best friends...just like many members at the OFC) |
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Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
Now it's more like a yuppie bar. Gotta be more PC,
The place has changed. Hope you newbies enjoy it as much as we did. It won't be for the same reasons..... Amazing, I'm out for a few days and now find GHessSr telling me I should "Remember to be kind and polite in our dealings with others" and Moody telling me as a newbie, I'm a PC yuppie.
You both have got to be freaking kidding!!
To both of you - I have always spoken my mind and will continue to do so. If I feel you are out of line, I will tell you so. If I feel someone didn't deal fairly with me, they will know it in no uncertain terms.
Yes, I'm a newbie but if that means I must act like someone I'm not to be accepted here, then it's time to say goodbye. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Watch out Kev, you'll get in trouble with the newbies.
But you make me proud that I sold you a great guitar. You deserve it! |
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Joined:
August 2005
Posts: 3736
Location: Sunshine State, Australia | What makes you think they're talking to you specifically Fletch?
Are you upset because they've described you accurately or because you're not what they describe.
If it's the former, then cop it on the chin.
If it's the latter, well, you've got nothing to worry about. Carry on like normal. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by moody, p.i.:
It used to be a corner pub where you'd go to hang with buddies... Now it's more like a yuppie bar. Y'mean one of them places with the hanging-plants, No pool table, No pinball, No smoking, No foul language, No motorcycle paraphernalia, with the 'world music' crap playing in the background? With imported beer that the locals don't drink in it's country of origin? And No Pitchers, nothing on Tap? Backgammon boards built into those teeny bar tables? Hummus and pita bread for snacks? And Wi-fi?
Damn, that is a depressing image! :eek: |
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Joined:
April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Hummus and pita bread for snacks? :eek: ..psst ,Arthur ,.. that`s Food .. a snack `s a Big Mack with double Fries , relish and a buxom waittres.. toting a double Shake .. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12755
Location: Boise, Idaho | Geez, Arthur, have you actually been in a bar like that? I don't think we have any of those here, but I don't get out much since I've been hanging out here. |
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February 2008
Posts: 747
| Happy trails boys - clicky gone; but I'll keep an eye on the for sale section - some good deals there. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Geez, Arthur, have you actually been in a bar like that? I don't think we have any of those here, but I don't get out much since I've been hanging out here. I ain't had a drink since 6/19/04, but there is a little yuppie fern-bar around the corner. I don't know about the Hummus, but it has WiFi, and $6.95 bottles of beer on the 'specials' menu. Cushy chairs, No Smoking, No Pool Tables, but they do have Chess and Backgammon and ScoreFour and Othello and Uno games on the shelf...
Why Would Anybody Even Go To A Bar Like That?? :confused: Ya' can't smoke. Ya' can't Dance. Ya' can't scream at the TV. Ya' can't play pool, or pinball. Why would you even go there?
I don't know about y'all, but for $7 a bottle? We can get case of microbrew $25 and we can sit in cushy chairs at my house, or your house, listen to Good Music, Play Guitars and Smoke whatever you want! (at Your house, not mine... Alcohol and Drug-Free Housing)
This is kinda off topic... But what is the world coming to? |
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Joined:
November 2008
Posts: 1119
Location: Michigan | Funny, I felt very welcomed here from the start...until I posted a "what is this guitar worth" post. Then I did get somewhat slammed, really only took offense to one but that has passed. Funny thing was I was thinking about buying and not selling yet I had a number of replys taking offense to the effect that I was "fishing to see what my guitar was worth" They simply did not read the post but yet felt compelled to tell me what an A** I was for asking that kind of a question. Anyway it worked out as some kind memebers PMd me with some answers and I now own the UTE. So alls well that ends well. |
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July 2005
Posts: 3410
Location: GA USA | I like backgammon. |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13987
Location: Upper Left USA | I am really surprised that this has not come up yet. Here are the lyrics to Monty Python's Philosopher's Song:
The Philosopher's Song (Monty Python)
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya'
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED...
John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away;
Half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed! |
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March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | That's in the same category as Clifford saying "I like llamas"..... |
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Joined:
August 2009
Posts: 381
Location: Miami | Originally posted by twistedlim:
Anyway it worked out as some kind memebers PMd me with some answers and I now own the UTE. So alls well that ends well. That's my point. Who cares about how many unpleasant members join and post their drivel? I still see a ton of cool people here and they will almost always get you the right answer to your question.
(Plus if you have a sense of humor, the jabs are fun)
I'm less than a year old to the OFC and I've never gotten into a site as much as this one. Why? Is it because everybody is so cool? Heck no. Is it because I get every answer I wanted? Not even (even though I do get almost everything answered as an added bonus). The SINGLE reason I'm here is because of the "O" in OFC.
I've met some AWESOME people here, and even drove a few hours to meet some of them in person and jam a little bit, I've made some great sales and trades, and no immature posters are going to stop me from enjoying my classy new circle of friends. |
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Joined:
October 2007
Posts: 2711
Location: Vernon CT | Originally posted by ''Jukebox Joe'' Tuñón:
I've met some AWESOME people here, and even drove a few hours to meet some of them in person and jam a little bit, I've made some great sales and trades, and no immature posters are going to stop me from enjoying my classy new circle of friends. [/QB] Classy friends???? :confused: Where? ;)
I will add that some of the "old timers" and thier "remarks" made me think a bit about being here. After having talked to and meeting some members and reliving stories they had about the "original group of OFC'ers" and thier "Posting Personas" vs who they really are in person made me realize it's all in fun (well, most of it :p ) I think I might even want to meet a few myself! :eek: :D |
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 5329
Location: Cicero, NY | "Classy friends???? :confused: Where? ;) "
[Insert "We have LOADS of class 'course most of it is lower..." joke here] |
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January 2002
Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | All the people that were here before me have been nice and put up with my novice ways till I got used to how things are around here. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Beal:
All the people that were here before me have been nice and put up with my novice ways till I got used to how things are around here. How about the people after you? |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I find the perceptions very interesting. Here's some interesting FACTS...
Since DAY ONE....
1. The "newbie" questions have not changed, and while roughly the same number of people join each month, the number of new questions hasn't really changed. However, each of the questions has been asked in some cases 100's of times by now. For those that have been here since the beginning... get over it... remember I've been here longer than ANYONE, and I (as well as Al) get a significant number of questions, the same that are posted, in our email EVERY DAY, and have been for nearly 8 years now !!!
2. As far as it being more or less PC... that is just a load of crap. The one rule from day one has been... "Be kind to each other" BUT.... and big BUT (he said big butt :) ) is that MOST, or at least MANY of the people who were here at the beginning knew each other BEFORE the Ovation FanClub existed. It was a high percent anyway and for a long time, of the folks that participated, the folks that knew each other was larger than those that didn't. So, "ribbing the new guy" was in most cases (not all) ribbing someone that someone already knew.
In my world, smart-ass answers are ONLY acceptable if they INCLUDE the real answer. If it doesn't you're just being an ass and I don't mean that in the endearing way... now ALSO in my world, if someone doesn't like the answer they get, that's their problem. I feel no need to defend myself, berate them or anything else including even think about it again. I only respond to questions in which I know I'm right. If someone doesn't agree with my answer, I don't really care, they'll eventually figure out I was right and THEY will have to deal with that.
Final Fact 1.
The Ovation Fanclub will NOT be everything everyone wants it to be, but it will ALWAYS be what Alex and I want it to be, and so far, it's been more than we had imagined it could be.
Final Fact 2.
Members will come and go. We will miss some of the ones that go, we should enjoy the ones that stay, and welcome the ones that join.
If you have a problem with either or both #1 and #2, or just don't agree and just can't deal with either #1 or #2... I suspect we'll miss you some day too. |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Gee Miles, you do read the board occassionally.
I would argue on point 2 that the circle of people who knew each at the beginning of the OFC only lasted for the first 10-20 people. By the time it got to me (#77), it was extending out to a lot of people who found the board thru a short lived link on the Ovation site or thru other sites. A lot of us had to learn to get along not knowing what we were getting in to (can anybody really know what to expect with Clifford or Temp?)...... |
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Joined:
March 2002
Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Damned if I know why I'm participating in this thread so much. I'm going to lay out of it and let others have fun with it.... |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | I've taken up a habit of researching one topic per day and rereading an entire thread in the vault. It's really fascinating.
If you want some enjoyment, education and nostalgia go read this thread. Read it all, every post. The topic is Adamas migration from Slothead to Non-Slothead.
http://www.ovationfanclub.com/cgi-bin/ubb/non-cgi/ultimatebb.php?ub... |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | That's a good discussion. Boy, there's a lot of great information in the vault, if you just go looking for it. |
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | Not all of the jabs have been in good fun. Some have been downright hareful. What bothers me is the double standard. While the older members find nothing wrong with a thread based on a dirty joke, when another, newer member posts a cute picture of his cat in a guitar case, he gets his head torn off for posting "something irrelevant that has nothing to do with guitars". It should be one way or the other. And there is no good reason to denegrate a member who has contributed so much, not only to the board, but to individual members of the board. Insults and jabs in good fun are not a problem, but mean spirited, nasty posts do not belong on a PUBLIC forum. We all talk about how sad it is that Ovations get no respect, and yet some members post things on this forum that are NOT good for the company. Not only does it chase away potential Ovation owners, but I would think the owners of the company must not like it too much either. |
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Joined:
February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by CanterburyStrings:
Not all of the jabs have been in good fun. Some have been downright hareful. Don't have to get personal. |
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March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | :D Oops. |
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Joined:
November 2005
Posts: 4827
Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | A: It's not a public forum. It is a private forum owned and operated by Miles and Al. They tolerate us, we tolerate them.
B: One persons ceiling is another ones floor. The barely tolerable for one is the greatest intellectual achievement another is capable of. Tolerance is easier to teach than taste, and even THAT is impossible. Basicaly, we do the impossible here almost every day. Exceptions really are quite rare, they just stand out like a fart in an elevator of perfumed women.
C: It's a tribute to us all that we get along as well as we do. If you've seen other forums I know you've seen much worse. That's not a justification, just an observation.
There ARE the occasional Trolls, Flamers, and other internet denizens around here. There is even legitimate bad blood between members from time to time. We suck it up and move on.
When something is posted that you don't like. Ignore it. in 24 - 36 hours that thread will fall off the first page IF YOU IGNORE IT. Dont' respond or you become part of what keeps it alive. This is why I have not posted on one, unnamed thread, that refuses to die...
Chill, we're all good people here with a few exceptions. Sometime I'm even one of the exception. Someday, you will be too.
Let's just put on our big girl panties and walk on.
D: Follow Gallerinskis link. Do a little REAL guitar larnin' here once in a while. (okay, now I know I'm just talking to myself) |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | The fact that this is the second longest thread on the active topic list, currently behind only the OFC II Guitar, probably tells you a lot. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | "What bothers me is the double standard. While the older members find nothing wrong with a thread based on a dirty joke, when another, newer member posts a cute picture of his cat in a guitar case, he gets his head torn off for posting "something irrelevant that has nothing to do with guitars".
It's not so much that there IS a intended double-standard, but it's more of the perception of one, and that's what is hard to deal with. In your example BOTH don't belong. But as I have a day job, and run a couple of businesses, and maintain several high-traffic websites and run a few sites including this one, moderation and enforcement of rules is NOT equal. There just isn't time in the day... sooo we tend to hear about the dirty joke more. Well the people making the joke are annoyed cause the picture of the cat slid by... cause no one clicked the alert.
When this was pointed out, that fact that if something bothers someone they should just click the alert instead of responding... we were told they couldn't be bothered. To which we responded... "If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem."
In short, I refer you to Final Fact's #1 and #2 above. :)
Also there is a mindset.. While the self-absorbed moron that posts off-topic threads that begin with "I probably shouldn't post this" knowing full well he/she should have stopped there will also POST that they don't like the picture of a cat or anything else... The more civilized folks will fill our emails (as is appropriate) with their complaints about this and that.
The result is YOU (a reader) only see the same people making the jokes as complaining about the cats.. (Looks like a double standard) when in reality... WE (admins) are getting an equal amount of complaints when it happens in email.
What I find interesting is that EVERY time this conversation comes up, the same things are said, by the SAME people... and if this was the only thread you read... you'd think there was some sort of issue... But rather if you look at the first 100 or so recent topics (ok, I only checked the 1st 50 or so and got bored), only a couple aren't about Ovations or Music in some way.
I'm going to close this thread soon... maybe in 3-6 months when this topic comes up again, someone will just link to this one, and the previous one, and the one before that... either that or I'll just tell the originator then to do a search first... How's THAT for ironic. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7222
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
The fact that this is the second longest thread on the active topic list, currently behind only the OFC II Guitar, probably tells you a lot. Four pages with only about 15 people (out of 7000+) participating (including myself) means that obviously this has run its course. |
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OFC Philosophical Rant…