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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | 2078lx Elite
I have only had this 2 weeks tops. Been noticing these little lines, scratches, not sure what to call them. The white trim that goes around the body of the guitar. I see this everywhere...oddly, not where I place my arm though.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/newfmp3/IMG_0293.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/newfmp3/IMG_0299.jpg
Is this normal for this trim? I'm assuming that little white trim is indeed plastic of sorts |
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February 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Huntington Beach | Never seen it on multiple Os that I've owned. Looks like tooling marks from a dull blade. |
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April 2006
Posts: 2491
Location: Copenhagen Denmark | SomeOne did that .. do n`t come by themselves .. |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Somebody had a sharp edged coffee table. Agreed, that's not factory! |
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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | it's ALL the way around the trim. Thought it might have been the case when it closes at first but it is at spots that doesn't touch the case. I find it hard to believe I never seen this until now. |
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Joined:
December 2004
Posts: 1673
Location: SoCal | Is it normal for the binding to have tooling marks?... no
Have I received guitars straight from Production with irregularities in the binding like that?... yes
Did Customer Service resolve the defect?... yes, immediately
I've never understood how things like this are missed by QA. Just close your eyes and run your finger around the binding.
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | You do see this from time to time. I think the edge is "trimmed" with some kind of a scraping tool and if they are not careful or take their time it can be far less than perfect. It should never get past QA inspection, but it does. |
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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | well, this is the disadvantage to ordering online. In order for me to fix this now, I'd have to send it back to the states. Is it bad enough for me to do that? Probably not. Sucks though |
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Joined:
March 2008
Posts: 2683
Location: Hot Springs, S.D. | OK Newf, here's how we used to touch them up at the factory. Get an exacto knife with a sharp blade. Just start scraping GENTLY and in small strokes. Smooth out a section of say two inches long, then continue on around the whole binding. You don't want to dig in deeply, just light strokes. With light strokes it won't smooth out completely, but it'll look better. And I can almost promise you you WILL cut your finger, so be careful about getting blood on your guirtar. (I know that sounds silly, but it's true.) The binding is plastic and shaving off a little bit won't hurt a thing. This is a lot easier than trying to sand it. |
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November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | thanks for the tip, if it gets worse I'll attempt it, but for now I won't risk it. Too much fun playing it right now. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Agreed, that's not factory! Yes, unfortunately, it is! I have seen it on several O's from time to time in the past...too big of a hurry and bad QA...sorry but true!
Here is a safer tool you can make to do the job yourself:
They are low-tech...but extremely effective expedient binding scrapers.
This one is just a chunk of 1/2" dowel with a slot, a broken utility knife blade, and a screw and wingnut to hold it all in place.
Adjust it to the depth of the binding and pull (not push) lightly towards you down the binding. It prevents cutting your fingers/hands…
They work very well. |
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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | well I just got a second O, this is a xmas gift for my father, same model, and sure enough, similar marks, granted not as bad. Pathetic. If I paid list price for these, I'd be flipping mad right now rather then just pissed off. OV quality control? LOL |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Yeah, it's a shame. Quality control (lack of) is in my opinion one the reasons that long time ovation loyalists eventually start to look at other brands to spend their money on.
The irony is that now most of production has moved to Asia and the former Ovation factory is pumping out Guild guitars built by the very same people. And they are spectacular. The first words out of my mouth when I got my D40 was "No Way this was built by the ovation folks". But it Was. So it's not that the guys are not capable to do it. Clearly they are (can be) world class under the right circumstances. I don't know how the factory runs, but I would guess the difference comes down to "build this guitar in x number of manhours, period." vs. "build a first class guitar in line with the selling price." Granted, the Guilds are probably 2x the price of most ovations.
Sorry to hear of your troubles with the fit and finish of your new guitars. I'd by lying if I said I was shocked. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Threads like these certainly pull the emotions in different directions.
On one hand, you can tell these guitars are hand finished. On the other hand, at least in these cases, there should have been more attention to detail. In yet another direction, if they spent the time on the detail, they would be more expensive, and well that brings around that if there was more attention to detail people would be willing to spend more. And 'round and 'round she goes.
IMHO, any guitar built in CT, should not be less than 2K. There's just too much handwork involved. But most, including myself, can't afford what they are worth.
I don't know if things have changed since my last visits to the Factory (I'm sure they have) but they did NOT seem to have any quota system in place. It truly seemed that it takes however many people it takes, how long it takes. If they need to build more guitars, they would hire more people and run more shifts and NOT up the pace. Maybe that has changed.
Maybe QC'ing "every" guitar isn't the best plan. Maybe a sampling of every 10th guitar would actually catch more. Try inspecting a few guitars yourself some time. Inspect a few guitars and write down any flaws you find. Then the next day do it again without looking at the first list. I bet if you are honest with yourself, you'll find and not find different things when you compare the lists. I can inspect a guitar in about 10-15 minutes, and I've been doing it for a long time and I STILL miss things on my guitars that I find later.
"If I paid list price for these..... "
I guess that's it in a nutshell. We gets what we pays for. |
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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | well, good news. I got my marks out. I tried the kife idea, it wasn't working well. So I tried some fine sandpaper on a sanding block, and the little marks came right off....whew. As for the new guitar I got for my old man, the marks aren't enough to even concern yourself with. If I didn't know what I was looking for, I wouldn't even find them.
So all is well again, thanks to those that helped. Oh and look at this
TWINS!
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Joined:
October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | There's something about twins that just quickens the pulse a little bit. |
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September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | I just can't stand the white binding on a dark guitar. Those would look so much better with black or some other darker color. The bright white is just too much contrast. ... And it's not just on Ovations! |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by FlySig:
There's something about twins that just quickens the pulse a little bit. 'specially when they're redheads.
Glad it worked out for you Newf. But it's probably not something that should have made it into a shipping box.
IMHO, quality is quality. There is no middle ground. You either build a quality product or you don't. Say want you want, but THAT has been the secret of the rise of Mr. Taylor's little guitar empire. I personally believe in a ZERO defect policy. That's not to say that the rare odd occurrence isn't going to happen ... folks are human after all. BUT ... can you imagine what would happen if helicopter rotors were going out with this level of QC? Pilots having to sand down their own rotors?
That said, I just got a new guitar fresh from the factory. I haven't found a single thing to complain about on it. It is perfect. In fact, I've bought 8 guitars from New Hartford over the past 10 or so years and only had one issue on one guitar, so for my money they are near zero defect. But I know other folks have had different experiences. Too many, I suspect. |
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Joined:
November 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Canada | well said sir. I personally have zero tolerance for quality control. Like you said, it's either quality or not, no middle. |
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September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | by bvince:
I just can't stand the white binding on a dark guitar. Those would look so much better with black or some other darker color. The bright white is just too much contrast. ... And it's not just on Ovations! Yeah! :mad: What He Said!
It's just plastic, they could make it Tortoise-shell.
(Like my eye-glass frames, which are also just plastic!) |
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Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
by bvince:
I just can't stand the white binding on a dark guitar. Those would look so much better with black or some other darker color. The bright white is just too much contrast. ... And it's not just on Ovations! Yeah! :mad: What He Said! |
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December 2006
Posts: 6268
Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | I dunno... there's something about that white-turned-to-aged cream/mellow yellow that quickens my pulse. |
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May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Depends what you are willing to pay for. I would guess the cost of raw materials is probably somewhere around 25% the list price of the guitar. On more expensive guitars you'll find grained ivoroid, tortie, wood bindings etc. On a $1500 elite? NFW.
Go look at the Takamine spec sheets. On their lower and middle end guitars the binding is something they call "CAB". I scratched my head and for the life of me what the hell is CAB? Well, guess what it stands for - Cheap Ass Binding !!! |
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Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 416
Location: On the Coast - Halfway between SF & OR | "CAB" That's just perfect!
I can just picture an excited new buyer, "My guitar has MOTS inlays and CAB binding!" |
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Joined:
December 2003
Posts: 13996
Location: Upper Left USA | Cream
Albino
Binding
Pricey
Italian
Ivoroid |
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Is this normal?