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| I was interested in getting a smoother recorded sound, so I decided to look into something other than my SM-58s, which I have been using.
I immediately thought condenser, but my research uncovered that two of the most ubiquitous broadcast mics are dynamics: The Electrovoice RE-20 and the Shure SM7. They both sound outstanding from what I can tell, and they are priced well within my means.
Anyone have experience with either or both of these mics? |
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Location: Brighty in Blighty | No I don't have either.
Here's the thing, some swear by one type some by another and some by another still and some by another still, etc, etc. The only real answer is to try many and trust your ears.
I've been using small (AKG C1000s) and large condensor (Rode NT1-A) mics for recording my acoustic guitars and like the results I'm getting.
The thing with mics is sky is the limit. You can pay $10,000 for a mic, thats not to say it's "better" than a $1000 mic.
Of course you haven't even said what you are recording and that makes a difference as some types of mic are more suited to recording certain things.
Also you have to take into account other factors such as recording environment, mic pre amp, and then further signal processing.
You should listen to the Sessions With Slau" podcast, he knows a *LOT* about microphones and often has shoot outs comparing various types etc.
As you can see you have opened up a can of worms. You might as well have asked whats the "best" music in the world. It's unlikely you would have much agreement.
Go forth and experinment. |
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Location: NJ | neumann |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | What Al said. |
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Location: Utah | What's your preamp and recording setup? Chances are if you are a home hobbiest that your weak link could be other than the mic. Or, to put it another way, you could go out and buy a lot more mic than the rest of your system will appreciate.
I have no experience with the mics you mentioned, so I can't comment on them. If you like the reviews you are reading on those two mics, you could buy a used one to see how it sounds. You could unload it for what you paid if you don't like it.
Several folks here have recently raved about the M-Audio Sputnik. At $799 new it isn't cheap! THe other end of the price spectrum is the MXL-604 at $99, which gets very high marks as well. I don't believe that my home studio would be able to take advantage of the Sputnik and so it would be wasted money for me. The MXL is more in line with home computer based recording setups. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by 71Jasper:
Anyone have experience with either or both of these mics? Yes, I have owned (and sold) both of them. They are excellent mics for the money and sound very similar. You would be content with either one.
I am not sure what your "means" are but there are some other mics that are much more flexible for about 1/2 again more ($500-700 range). |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by FlySig:
The MXL is more in line with home computer based recording setups. WRONG! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by alpep:
neumann Indeed a +1... but even then... I have several Neumann mics... depending on the guitar, the room, the player, they all sound different.
USE YOUR EARS...
Sorry, but that's really the ONLY way to choose a mic. Finding enough mics to test is a difficult chore, but that's just what you need to do. There is no shortcut, no way around it. Pick most ANY microphone made and you will find someone who swears by it, and won't use anything else.
Yeah, I know... not much help... soooo... start with "classes" of mics. Choose mics with different patterns, and different elements. You may find that no matter the price, you like condenser mics. Ok... that narrows your search a bit. Ok.. you like tight pattern mics more than wide pattern... you're onto something.
And remember, mic placement is almost MORE important than the Mic you choose. I can put my Nuemann 149 tube mic in front of a guitar in such a way to make it sound like garbage, or I can put it in front of my S&H Greenstamps nylon string guitar and it will sound like a high-end insert-favorite-brand-here.
Bottom line... use your ears. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I am the beneficiary of StephenT's Mic sale (or at least several of them)...I have a nice selection of both Tube and Condenser Mic's none of which cost over $1000 retail...Miles is right about Mic placement: you can easily make a great mic sound terrible; however, I don't think you can make a cheap mic sound fantastic...YMMV on that...
That said, the Sputnik is the cream of my crop for now. I am getting ready to add a ribbon mic to the locker and that should tide me over for a while: at least get me through the recording of my current CD...
Matt Smith took me aside at Amelia two years ago and suggested that I use a Mac; Logic Studio; Apogee Duet for a great home studio...I can not thank him enough: for a modest investment (under $5000) I have a recording studio that is eminently upgradable and produces very nice sound. Yes, you can always spend more but a good mic; a good DAW, good headphones, and decent songs is a formula that can bring results depending on what your aspirations are.
You can usually find a good buy on quality used and new Mic's on eBay...
Enjoy! |
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Location: Nashville, TN | Hmmm...toughy! I have found 2 'stick' Nuemann pointed in an 'X' fashion in stereo sound very nice --pointed @ the 12th frot & behine the sound hole..(depending on the guitar you use really determines the outcome) My Martin HD35 is a little 'boomy' so i STEER CLEAR FROM THE SOUNDHOLE ...Here @ home I use a Lawson L47MP 'hybrid' type mic & run a line directly off the guitar pickup...I get plenty of bright from the pickup & plenty of 'boom' from the Lawson & a good separation as well..I'm using a Hohner DR550EC 'top of the line' flat top they carry...Which I endorse & is a good recording guitat..has a tuner built in..a necessity for me who is always out of tune:-( |
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Location: Utica, NY | Here's a newly listed New Man from the HFC list:
http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39183 |
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Location: Utica, NY | And a supporting article:
http://www.studio-central.com/review_of_the_neumann_tlm103.htm
And reviews:
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Microphone/product/Neuma...
And a cool anniversary version on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Neumann-TLM-103-Anniversary-Condenser-Microphon... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have a pair of matched tlm103's. Just amazing and I keep finding new uses for them. |
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Posts: 247
Location: Delaware | My first mic was a Rode NT 2000 . With its variable polar pattern, db pad , and bass rolloff, it is a very flexible, great sounding mic for the money (around $600). It's big and it's heavy, built like a tank. I still use it a lot even though I have sevral other brand/types of mics. If I could only keep one it would be the NT2000. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | This thread is a good example of how we get off topic (not that the information is not valuable).
71JAsper asked about an RE-20 and an SM7, two mics in the sub $500 range. Suddenly we are talking about Neumann and other $1500-3000 mics.
The bottom line is that both the RE-20 and the SM7 are infinitely better for home recording than the venerable Shure SM-58.
The other truths.....
as miles stated, mic placement is just as critical if not more so than the quality of the mic.
as Mike mentioned "you can easily make a great mic sound terrible; however, I don't think you can make a cheap mic sound fantastic..."
I personally have found recording/studio mics to be a lot like guitars.
$100 for a guitar/mic is an ok sounding $100 guitar/mic
$1000 for a guitar/mic is a very good sounding guitar/mic
$5000 for a guitar/mic is an excellent sounding guitar/mic
$10000 for a guitar/mic is an exquisite sounding guitar/mic
Now on a ten scale...for both mics and guitars
$100........ 3
$1000....... 8
$5000....... 9.6
$10000...... 9.8
just my rating, YMMV |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I was actually hoping the more important part of my post was USE YOUR EARS..
If the choice is RE-20 or SM-7 find some way to try them. Doesn't have to be a fancy test, but that is the only real way to choose a mic. I believe Guitar Center has a return policy. Maybe buy one, do a quick test. If you like it, keep it, if not, trade it for the other...
YOUR ears are the only things that will tell you if you have the right mic for YOUR recording needs. |
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Location: Miami | GC doesn't return mics.
I've tried SM58, NT1, and AT4050 and their quality matches their price: okay, good, and better, respectively.
I've always wanted to try an SM7 to compare it to the pricier AT4050. If I do I'll post my opinion.
While we're on the topic, I found the best sound by mixing the OP-PRO plugged in with the mic'd sound (add another +1 to the mic placement comments).
A neat little trick if mixing in with other tracks: hard pan the preamp output left and the mic'd sound hard right and you get a nice stereo effect that sounds cleaner than a lot stereo effects patches and lets the guitar cut through the mix at a lower volume. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Another option is your local music gear rental place. If you have a relationship with a local music store that rents gear, they may be willing to work a deal out to rent a bank of mic's during the week. Insure they know they are going to be used in a studio environment, and only by you.
Not every store would be up for this, but money is money. A straight up rental place for fairly low bucks could set you up with a portable recording rig and a gaggle of mics. Really simple inexpensive way to test some great gear in a somewhat controlled environment (at least from a wiring and recording point of view).
I realize the question was about the mic's for under $500, but really there are a LOT of GREAT mics for under $500. Studio Projects mics are just amazing offerings as example. I think if you could rent a few mics for maybe under $200 to test, it may go a long way to take the balance and get you a $300 mic that will make you VERY happy for many years.
Just trying to think out of the box. I have spent 1000's on microphones and now have it narrowed to ones I use, ones I also like, but for some reason don't use, and ones I have sold.
-mkb |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I have spent 1000's on microphones and now have it narrowed to ones I use, ones I also like, but for some reason don't use, and ones I have sold.
-mkb I have DEFINITELY been there and I have to say that the higher up the food chain the less difference I have found (at least on my voice). I have finally started selling off about 1/2 the mics I own because while some of them vary wildly in price (and resale value) they sound very very similar to my ears.
A while back I owned some Studio Project mics. I can't remember the model numbers off the top of my head but they were excellent value for the money.
About 75% of the recording I do now is with my Blue Bottle.
By having a variety of capsules that I can change out I can get pretty versatile based on the sound I am looking for.....acoustic/electric guitar, male vocal, female vocal, mando, 12string, etc... |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | 71 JASPER : .. as I understand it , you are asking advice , that can be adopted for a reasonable fee , ( pointed at by Dan S. and Joe T. ) .. so let`s ask the " Big Boys " , How To ....
Mr. Ovation ..
Stephen ...
What is your preferred Mic. Set-Up ..
X Y .. ORTF .. NOS ..?? ..something else .. ( and Why )..
Cheap-skate recording Equipment ..
Using our ears .. and Your Expertise ..
Please .. :)
Vic
.. Dan S., how can I obtain yer CD ?? .. ( I`m a Fan ).. wish I had yer voice .. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | If I'm going for massive overkill (and just fooling around) I will typically record 4 tracks for the guitar.
A pair of stereo mics for the left/right, an overhead for room ambiance and DI'ed into the preamp/DAW.
This allows me to blend in all 4 sources to get the best balanced sound/mix without having to resort to comping or eq.
Once I am happy and mistake free (think 500 takes later ;) ) I then mix it down to a single track and move on the the next instrument.
Serge got to hear some of the mixes I have laid down when I actually sat and took my time and tried to do things correctly. I think a lot of it sounds pretty good. Usually I just throw something down for grins and then move on.
For me, it's really all just for fun and learning. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | Thanks Stephen ( Insight is what I did ask for ) .. did ya notice the " Cheap Skate Recording Equipment " thing .. :)
Vic
.. wonder what Mr.Ovation will come up with.. and perhaps Mr. Alpep .. and where`s that Mr. P. Templeman when ye need him .. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I'm not sure what insight I can provide. I start by listening to the instrument and whats being played and go from there.
I have favorite configurations, but I don't start with them usually, although I end up with them often.
Instrument, Playing style, material, room and of live or for recording all are factors and all result in different configurations..
gimme a scenario... I can tell you where I would start and with what I guess.
As an asside, a couple week ago I was mixing live. 2nd act (a jug band) didn't get much of a sound check... well no sound check actually. The guy on stage moved the Vocal mics (used for the 1st act) to the National guitar, Vocal, and the Saw, and a CAD tom mic to the washtub bass. The washboard had a wireless rig hooked up. I had my hands on the faders waiting to try and make something of whatever happened after the MC intruduced them... I brought up the levels and to my astonishment it sounded freak'n fantastic.. I'm actually going to write a note to Audix about using an OM-2 for live Saw. The damn thing sounded like a Therimin it was so clean and smooth. The steel guitar punched right through but that had to do with the combination of the mic on the guitar and the vocal mic the player was singing into. When I monitored the channels pre-fader, individually they were nothing special, but the bleed between the mics made a full smooth sound. It's nice when it just "happens" that way. Actually to by honest, I should have had something different for the singer as his voice wasn't a match with the Audix mic... but it was too late to do anything about it. It was ok... but he would have been better with something bigger. The instruments (such as they were) sounded great tho.. And... based on what I heard pre-fader... had I put a different vocal mic in... everything else may have ended going to suckville, cuase it was the combination of placement that was making the sound. |
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Location: Miami | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
I brought up the levels and to my astonishment it sounded freak'n fantastic... It's nice when it just "happens" that way... it was the combination of placement that was making the sound. Man, the more I play around with the limited mics I have the more astonished I also am at placement. It's like the "location, location, location" real estate rule for mics. It's all about "placement, placement, placement". |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Jukebox, you nailed it!
Miles has the advantage of recording both studio and live and having others to record besides himself. It's nice to be able to make adjustments on the fly and "hear" what changes they make to the sound and then adjust again if necessary.
The biggest problem I always have with self recording is mic placement (mainly live mic for acoustic guitar/mando/etc).....not that the placement is difficult but repositioning "myself" after I make adjustments to approximately the same spot is hard to do. Being off just a few inches can be a difference in the sound....and it also can get both tiring and frustrating to get up to make multiple changes in a short period of time. I have a "remote" recording box (Frontier Tranzport) that allows me to be across the room and record/playback/rewind/etc my DAW but that doesn't help when you need to make physical adjustments to the mics/eq/comp/etc. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Originally posted by ''Jukebox Joe'' Tuñón:
It's all about "placement, placement, placement". I know nothing about sound boards (SB), mics, PAs, etc.
But in our large church, the SB was located up in the balcony at the rear of the church. I was always was straining to hear the lead guitar and the vocal harmonies.
Recently the SB was relocated to the ground floor behind the congregation. What a remarkable difference!!!
Also, the band mics and equipment were shuffled around and spread out a bit. Plus a plexiglas 'curtain' was placed in front and on the sides of the drums. Note: Didn't see a 'Do Not Feed the Drummer' sign... yet...
The changes were a dramatic improvement for listening enjoyment.
Great topic... |
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| Thanks to all who responded. I regret that due to work commitments, I was away from the computer for a few days.
I actually found all the information I needed on You Tube, of all places. There's a guy who, for some reason, reviews microphones and auditions them on the videos. For any who might be interested, the reviews are at New Media Gear .
BTW, I have ordered a Rode NT1A, which I think will best fill my present needs. |
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Posts: 1565
Location: Indiana | Originally posted by 71Jasper:
BTW, I have ordered a Rode NT1A, which I think will best fill my present needs. Very good choice. |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | JASPER 71 : ..CONGRATS with the New Mic, ..
Tell us what yer doin`/ makin` progress with it ..so that we can " Tap " them Big Boys fer some more of that Recording Art .. fer YES !! .. Recording is an ART !! .. I`m still at the charcoal and fumblin` fingers stage m`self ..
Vic |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Except for the part of USE YOUR EARS, it seems like I'm doing everything else wrong. All I've got is some cheap mics, an old school desktop recording deck, three chords and a handful of dreams. A "modest" five grand investment in a recording system ready to be upgraded??? Four figures plus for a mic ... and I gotta buy them in matched pairs??? Yikes ... that's a lot of coin for some crappy songs from a crappy player like me ... and that seems to be an entry price no less! To be honest, it's pretty intimidating ... and I must say it's scaring me away from ever recording again ... or at least posting them up for anyone to listen to. It's probably a good thing that I don't really give a shit about what other people think about my music. But I did hope it would sound good ... and I've been pretty happy with the way it sounds to me. :rolleyes:
BTW 71Jasper, one of my cheap mics is an older Rode NT1. I bought it years ago for about $200 brand new. It's been a real good investment for me. If you're looking to just please yourself, I think you'll be real happy with your decision. Another good investment I made was in a small tube preamp ... I got an AMP MP for small change and I think it helps the sound of the mic. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Rode NT1A is a nice mic. I owned one for several years and it never failed to provide a solid performance.
Bobbo.....I wanna suck as bad as you do. Let me know when the tour starts so I can either be in the band or at least the sound guy! |
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Posts: 3969
| Originally posted by stephent28:
Bobbo.....I wanna suck as bad as you do. Let me know when the tour starts... I'll be a roadie - about matches my abilities.
DING! 3000 |
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Location: Brighty in Blighty | NT1a you say. Good choice. Now you need a small diaphram too ;) |
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Location: Round Rock, TX | I like Rode. I use a K2 and a pair of NT5's. I also use a couple of Cascade ribbon mics (Fathead II's) that I really like. Theses are all excellent performers for not a lot of money. |
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Recording Mics