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Location: Mid-Atlantic | Most of you folks likely know Ovation owns Hamer now, having moved the entire production to New Haven quite some time ago. I have a very special place in my heart for ovations. Love everything from their old Electric Storm series to the Lyracords. This is a company that makes damn good instruments. Hamer looked to be a perfect match up for ovation. High quality components and inovative designs. Pricey too, like new Ovations. Never owned a hamer but looking at a hamer duotone. So two questions.
1. For any Hamer users .. comments esp re: Duotone.
2. What impact if any has the emergence of Fender as a parent company had on Ovation?
Also.... in the market for an Ovation Thunderhead. buy or trade. I have an Elite 1868lx (rare shallow lx as this was not marketed in the states, tho its made in New Haven, near mint) |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | where are you getting your information?
new haven?
ovation owns hamer?
check some of your history
duotone is a great guitar. very nice hybrid I dislike the use of the 2 jacks.
the vxt is just a duotone with an ovation headstock and neck probably pick one of those up easier than a duotone
as for #2 fender sent a bunch of the production to korea.
how is that for impact? |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | where are you getting your information?
new haven?
ovation owns hamer?
check some of your history
duotone is a great guitar. very nice hybrid I dislike the use of the 2 jacks.
the vxt is just a duotone with an ovation headstock and neck probably pick one of those up easier than a duotone
as for #2 fender sent a bunch of the production to korea.
how is that for impact? |
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March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | 1. Hamer Duotones were revolutionary. Quality was excellent, but I really didn't have any need for a dual purpose guitar, since I rarely play my electrics. I sold mine and if I ever get the idea that I need a hybrid again, I'd probably go with the VXT. The new Duotones are made in Korea.
2. There's a ton of info on the impact of the Fender buyout. Some rainy weekend do a search and read a bunch of the threads here on it. |
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Posts: 14842
Location: NJ | VXT. |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | I have owned a few Hamer guitars and I think they are great. Much like Ovation, bang for buck one of the best out there. As far as VXT vs Duotone I would suggest as follows.
- If you are mostly an electric player and would like some super clean and very acoustic sounds.. get a VXT
- If you are an Acoustic player and just want some electric sounds sometime, get a Duotone. |
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Location: NJ | WHOA
there are no new duotones being made in korea
there were some for a short time about 5 years or so ago but they were discontinued |
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Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Once I toured the Hamer factory in New Hartford, I made myself a pact to buy one. I now own two, a top-of-the-line Improv and a custom ordered Monoco III. I had also considered the Duo-Tone, but instead went with a custom-spec'd VXT which I really love. I also agree with Miles (Mr. Ovation) about the distinction between the Duo-Tone and VXT, but also suggest you consider Ovation's EA-68 Viper model in lieu of the Duo-Tone as a limted alternative variation on this same theme, that is, a primarily acoustic sounding guitar with a lot of electric guitar feel and playability. I have three of these as well. Ovation makes (or made) an overseas variation of the U.S. made EA-68 models as well. |
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Posts: 4046
Location: Utah | re: Hamer
A superior product at a reasonable price considering the quality. Not cheap to buy new, but reasonable for what it is. There are/were some new stock being blown out at great prices.
The USA Hamers will spoil you.
The foreign made Hamer products are a lot cheaper than USA, as with all brands. Good stuff with a loyal following.
If you are in the market for a used Hamer, now is a great time to buy. Unfortunately for all used instrument sellers the prices are down. If you decide on a Duotone I would say go for it now, don't wait.
re: Fender buyout of Ovation & Hamer
That is still shaking out. There has been a shift of some production overseas and an increase in pricing on USA made products. The increase was bad timing due to the economy tanking at the same time but imho the pricing is reasonable for the amount of work required and the quality of the final product.
Fender seems to be a fairly smart company with specific vision. Whether or not I agree with their vision is a different subject, but I think that having a strong vision is important. They seem to be re-forming the entire Ovation/Hamer/Guild group into something they think will have identity and be marketable. |
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Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by alpep:
WHOA
there are no new duotones being made in korea
there were some for a short time about 5 years or so ago but they were discontinued Whoops. Sorry for the bad info. I'll go back to my very small niche as soon as I can find it. |
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Posts: 27
Location: Mid-Atlantic | Originally posted by alpep:
where are you getting your information?
new haven?
ovation owns hamer?
check some of your history
duotone is a great guitar. very nice hybrid I dislike the use of the 2 jacks.
the vxt is just a duotone with an ovation headstock and neck probably pick one of those up easier than a duotone
as for #2 fender sent a bunch of the production to korea.
how is that for impact? Am I not correct? I checked my history and mine says Kaman moved Hamer right next to its Ovation production locality in 1987. So then does Ovation err..Kaman(now under Fender) then indeed own Hamer?
Otherwise .. thank you and others for the posts. Very knowlegable guitar site you Ovation folks.
edit: I kept saying New Haven.. obviously mean New Hartford |
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Posts: 10582
Location: NJ | no it was not obvious
otherwise you would have said New Hartford |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | I like Hamers ... I have one that came from their Arlington Heights operation, and then one that was made in New Hartford. Great design and craftsmanship. Never had a DuoTone though, I never liked the way the big clunky wooden bridge looked on the Hamer top ... and couldn't see the utility of the guitar.
BTW, I think Kaman bought Hamer around 1988, and moved them to New Hartford in 1997.
Fender's impact on Hamer? No more Jol Dantzig. That's gonna be a HUGE impact. |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | I think the 88 is correct.
I think Hamer moved earlier than 97, early 90s? I forget, it was so long ago.
The Duo-tone and Viper were developed at the same time, in fact Hamer built the Viper prototype. It took until the VXT to really get it down.
Pardon me alienstarguest but this is all pretty old news.
Ovation morphed from a company to a product line around 1986. Ovation never "owned" Hamer, Kaman Music owned it all and that's who bought Hamer, and Trace Elliot, and B&J distribution in Canada, and Latin Percussion, and Genz Benz amps, and two other distribution companies as well and probably some others I'm forgetting.
Fender bought Kaman Music for all the percussion (did I forget to mention Grestch drums?) and distribution. I think Ovation was a convienent little bonus and Hamer the size of the period at the end of this sentence. Too bad because they could take it and beat the shit out of Gibson with it because they are much better guitars.
Time will tell what they do. |
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Location: Jersey near NYC | Beal,
'97 is right. I came to NH in April '96 and Hamer followed in early '97. It just SEEMS like a lifetime ago...
Kim |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Yes, it was two lifetimes.
Oh and Welcome Alienstarguest.
forgot to say that before. |
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Posts: 15664
Location: SoCal | Originally posted by Beal:
The Duo-tone and Viper were developed at the same time, in fact Hamer built the Viper prototype. It took until the VXT to really get it down. Is the VXT the Duo-Tone done right, or the Viper done right? I realize it's more the Duo-Tone type guitar, but I'm curious..... |
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Posts: 14127
Location: 6 String Ranch | Probably the VXT is the Duo-Tone/Viper done right. |
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Posts: 34
Location: here | Don't know too much about Duotones but I used to have a Hamer bass that I loved, and am now a proud owner of a '94 US made Daytona with Bill Lawrence PU's, Wilkinson Bridge (blocked), bone nut, Sperzel locking tuners (staggered height so no string trees), maple neck, plek'd by Gary Brawer.
Loudest most resonant guitar I've ever played unplugged, and I've owned and played a lot.
Strung with D'Addario Light Jazz strings (12's wound 3rd) it's a tone monster and stays in tune for days.
Listen you can hear the sustain...
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Location: 6 String Ranch | nice |
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Location: Tennessee | Oooh. Surf green, pearloid and maple. Sweet. |
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Location: Florida Central Gulf Coast | Ya just gotta love that tuna set up! :cool: |
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March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | Back to the original question about the Duotone, I didn't have a problem with the 2 chord setup. It was more intuitive to me, having one chord go to the acoustic amp and one to the electric amp. But I didn't use it much.
Adrian Legg told me he thought the acoustic bridge on the Duotones was a dumb idea, or something to that effect. I thought they were just like the bridges on Ovations, which work fine for me.
The newer Duotones had changes in the pickups, but I'm not familiar with the new ones.
The VXT had a lot of similarities to the Duotone, used one chord, was very well constructed and was cheap. I sold my 3 hole Duotone for a little more than I paid for a new VXT, clearance priced. That's the basis for my comment that if I had a need for a hybrid, I'd get a VXT, since I don't feel the need to pay for the Hamer name and quality. |
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Posts: 5750
Location: Scotland | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Adrian Legg told me he thought the acoustic bridge on the Duotones was a dumb idea, or something to that effect. I don't agree with him at all, and it would appear that he doesn't agree with himself as he has an almost identical arrangement on his acoustic Breadwinner rip-off. Of all the hybrid guitars I've played, and that would be most if not all of them, the ones that had the best acoustic sound for me were those with a regular acoustic bridge rather than piezo elements embedded into electric guitar saddles. The original Duotones with the Ovation pickup were great, better sounding to me than the later version with an undersadddle, and as much as I've warmed to the VXT after the loaner I had for my NAMM demos, I still prefer the Duotone. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | There's always a good chance that I didn't understand what he was talking about, other than it was something he didn't like about Duotones. I'm not used to so many words and names with an accent tossed into a couple minutes, while he was signing autographs. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Originally posted by Paul Templeman:
Of all the hybrid guitars I've played, and that would be most if not all of them, the ones that had the best acoustic sound for me were those with a regular acoustic bridge rather than piezo elements embedded into electric guitar saddles. [/QB] Based on my own personal experience and ears, this may be the reason I give the nod to the EA68 over the VXT for acoustic only tone. Of course, the VXT provides other features and benefits that the EA68 does not, but they're both very useful guitars for live gigging. Everybody should have a few of each. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I just remembered what Adrian said about the bridge. (I really think I'm showing signs of the dimentia that runs in the family.) He said he could never get the intonation right. I remember thinking that I'd heard of that problem with all acoustic guitars, but my ears aren't good enough to hear the difference.
alienstarguest, if you haven't figured it out by now, I have the least knowledge in this area. There are a bunch of Duotone fans on the Hamer Fan Club site. |
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Location: NJ | . . . it's "dEmentia".
(or did y'forget THAT too? ;-) |
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July 2003
Posts: 3111
Location: Nashville TN. | Hamer is really the built electric guitar.
I saw them being made.
I did not need one, but I wanted one.
Bought a Newport Pro |
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March 2005
Posts: 12758
Location: Boise, Idaho | Originally posted by cliff:
. . . it's "dEmentia".
(or did y'forget THAT too? ;-) Mine is "DIMentia" with an emphasis on the dim. I'm sure my mother's is dementia, though.
I can't forget what I don't know, although I should have figured out it was derived from demented, and not some sort of measuring device. I promise that I'll remember it from now on. |
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Location: Cicero, NY | Glad it's not that dreaded "DUHmentia", Mark.
Seen WAY too much of that in my family tree... |
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Location: Copenhagen Denmark | .. ??? ..
.. Sure .. |
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Any of you Ovation fans pass any loyalty to Hamer guitars ? And Fender Impact?