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Joined:
August 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Sydney | Hey folks,
I have been perusing ebay Ovation sales and I don't understand why the values are so variable! It seems like some balladeers are worth more than others but I thought that the 70s and 80s models were all quite a similar bunch. Trying to work up my knowledge on these vintage lovely ones...
Here are some examples that confuse me in terms of price range...
1617 Ovation Legend 1979 $335
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150481625579&ssP...
1617 Ovation Legend 1979 $281
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350394563995&...
1612 Ovation Balladeer 1981 $222
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230527166431&ssP...
1112 Ovation Balladeer 1975 $457
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120623753142&...
The balladeer price difference especially is a bit huge, especially considering the cheaper one has a pickup!
Anyway, appreciate any help as I think the differences might be large from a collector's point of view but maybe not the average player?
Thanks! |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 4996
Location: Phoenix AZ | Ebay prices are set by what the buyer is willing to pay and it will very all over the place. Different buyers will value the same product differently depending how badly they want it, how much money they have, etc. That 1612 model for $222 I wouldn't give $100 for. So what's it worth, $100 to me or $222 to someone else?
The Ebay price point is the value of THAT one guitar to THAT one buyer at THAT particular time. |
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Joined:
September 2005
Posts: 3619
Location: GATLINBURG TENNESSEE :) | There are a LOT of factors that affect the asking and selling prices of these guitars. Some of them are impossible to nail down specifically, like the economic situation, time of the year (pre/post tax time), and sometimes just a coincidentally-high number of the same guitars selling at the same time. the factors you CAN note are related to the condition and rarity of the model. Some recurring issues are: finish cracks, chips, gouges and other damage, fretboard wear, condition of binding (or missing binding), neck issues(like warpage), Top issues like bellying or cracks,faulty electronics, and missing parts; and there are probably others i have forgotten. Sometimes the seller doesn't provide good photos or a good description, and sometimes they omit important info on purpose. You REALLY need to do your homework and ask detailed questions early on. ask for more and detailed photos if you need them. If anything doesn't "seem right" and the seller cannot ease your concerns, you probably should steer away from that sale. With all this said, especially given your location ... it is much wiser to deal with established members of this board and some of the dealers that are here. It would be a rare situation here to receive a bad deal on an instrument. You will find that most members here are already well informed, and not only capable, but determined to help you get that "right" guitar for you. One of the reasons there are so many people active on this board is because of the pride they have in Ovation guitars. I believe we all have an interest in promoting these quality instruments, and the reputation of this club.
There ARE some great deals that come up on Ebay, but there are also a lot of risks involved that you will have to take. Your success or failure there will depend 90% on your ability to discern all of the above factors and make informed decisions. But eventually it all comes down a bit to a rolling of the dice. |
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Joined:
April 2003
Posts: 608
Location: Caribou, ME | Back in the 70s Mighty John Marshall had a used record shop in Bangor, ME. There were periodic auctions for 45s and he had a standing bid of 45 cents per disc. Every couple weeks or once a month he got a box in the mail with his winnings. He would sort them out and price them for resale in his shop. His lowest price was 50 cents and could go as high as 3 or 4 bucks, depending on what it was.
Sometimes I view roundbacks the same way. I've bought many off ebay under fifty bucks (some for ($10 or so!) and I just consider it a pig in a poke grab bag... what I get, I get. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the windshield. But being a member of the BFLG, that goes with the territory.
I'd be lost if I had to, let's say, seek and buy a 1719 Custom Legend and know I got a good deal or didn't sit down for a week. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | It's not just Ovations. My first guitar was a Univox H-2. I paid $35 with a case. Long time ago obviously. I saw one on ebay recently for $1200 and another for $300. Both way too much, but if someone actually bought the one for $1200, the one for $300 would look like a deal.
You'll see plenty of guitars that start out really high and then keep dropping. I bought an 83 Collector for my daughter a couple years ago for $300 something. It was originally listed on ebay for $1600. |
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Joined:
August 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Sydney | wow that's interesting, so there isn't anything specific between the two balladeers for example that would make one go for twice as much as the other?
Not even the Kbar vs truss rod for instance, or perhaps if one was braced a certain way (not that some buyers and sellers would know the difference)?
I know that you can really SELL something on ebay just by marketing it better with good photos and a good description, but a 1112 going for double what a 1612 goes for within the space of a few days is pretty crazy to me (as an ignoramus). |
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Joined:
September 2002
Posts: 806
Location: Seymour, Tennessee | I really think the age as well as conditon is a key factor.
My 1968 Deluxe Balladeer sounds and looks just as good as anything out there.
I've seen gitars of that era not even close to th e condition mine is in command big dollars.
The beater 1977 Custom Balladeer I gave my boy is an outright banger ad is in better condition than some I se on e-ay and I got it for $75.
My 87 Collector's definatetly is head and soulders above many others.
My 1988 Collector's is pristine and represents a different style all together.
My 1989 1718 deepie Elite holds it's own with the 87 Collector's, just barely falling by its wayside.
The youngest Ovation I own is the 1990 12 String Custom Legend I had built for me and it is astonishining even with a super shallow bowl.
Prices are just soo very weird right now is all... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | People don't usually bid much for guitars with cracks in them, especially when they look major rather than minor. The older one looked like it was in better shape, but someone still paid quite a bit for it. |
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Joined:
December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | From experience I can say THERE ARE NO RULES OR REASONS.
Also, note that looking at "auction" selling prices is a waste of time. Only the "sold price" is of any value, and even that is limited. The asking price can be anything from someone just looking to unload a guitar to someone thinking they have a historic relic to anything in between. It's only if it sells does the price matter for research.
So considering all of the above comments about condition and such are valid, there are so many other factors that play in. The person looking for the replacement of their "special" guitar may be willing to pay just about anything for that guitar in any condition. "It's the model my used to play" "Its the guitar that inspired me to play" "We need a guitar to match this cool lamp" etc etc...
Then factor in the logistics of a badly worded auction resulting in almost no one bidding cause they think it's a scam or garbage and it turns out they pay $100 for a guitar that should be $500 or the opposite that someone pays top dollar for a guitar they just "have to have."
Factor all that with the millions of people that shop for guitars and sell guitars for different reasons, and those who see the ad and don't... and well... I stick by my original statement.
THERE ARE NO HARD AND FAST RULES.
As someone eluded to, a guitar is worth what someone is willing to pay at that moment in time.
I would even go as far to say that monetarily all guitars are worth $0.00 until someone pays a price for them and then it is worth a particular price to the buyer and a seller. And then, they are only worth that price for the moment the transaction happens between those two parties.
Trust me, if you can wrap your head around the concept, it will cause much fewer headaches. |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Miles missed a chance to give a concrete example of something on which he has a great deal of expertise--Ovation Solidbodies. At lunch yesterday I was talking to a couple old guys who are new to guitars and that led to Ovation GS and GPs. Although they were priced about the same in the 80s, Ovation GPs were used by Josh somebody of Queens of the Stone Age a few years ago and it drove the price up to $2000 to $3000. It made no sense, but that sort of thing is what creates demand and increases value. |
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Joined:
June 2007
Posts: 3084
Location: Brisbane Australia | Like Miles said......the market is fickle
Anything......guitars...cars...old coins...Barbie dolls...whatever....are only worth what someone is prepared to pay.
The point Mark made about the Ultra GP and GS is very true.........I have four GP's and six various GS guitars......they in total owe me less than one of the GP's......yet they were a similar price new....
I'm gonna see if I can get Keith Urban to play one......
AJ |
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Joined:
December 2008
Posts: 1456
Location: Texas | You guys may have just started a feeding frenzy on GPs on EBay and Craig's List… ;)
Maybe it's my imagination, but several times in the last couple of years I swear that BOTH listings AND selling prices increased dramatically for specific models not long after some thread or another evoked high praise from multiple members here…
The OFC bump, I guess… |
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Joined:
August 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Sydney | Thanks all, sorry I think I should have worded my question differently. I saw a post by Moody which reminded me of what I was really investigating.
He posted a thread letting us all know about an "A braced Legend w/ a K-bar neck. Ought to be a wonderful guitar, and the price is right".
To me it sounds like he is touting the credentials of the ovation based on its bracing and the KBar neck, hence I was wondering if specific features like this are likely to up the price of an Ovation on ebay (or bring a sweeter sounding guitar into your arms)... |
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Joined:
March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | Getting off track is our specialty. Most people probably don't know that Ovation had different braces and don't remember when the K-bar neck was used in marketing, so it's not likely those features would increase the ebay value. One of the problems with ebay guitars is you can't listen to them. My opinion is that you are trying to figure out something that doesn't necessarily make sense. You are assuming a knowledgeable buyer and seller established the value on some rational basis and I don't think that happens much on ebay. If you really wanted a sweet sounding guitar, you'd listen to it first, or at least listen to an identical guitar. |
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Joined:
May 2008
Posts: 1565
Location: Indiana | To my ear, a K-bar neck sounds different from the rest... pre and LX. Can't prove it either but I'd venture it's related to the mass. I prefer it, but that's subjective.
I prefer A bracing on wood tops as well. Also highly subjective. |
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Joined:
September 2006
Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Beauty (and Value) is in the eye of the beholder.
1983 Custom Balladeer 1612, K-bar neck, A-braced, One-knob Preamp,
Broken Headstock, Cracked Top, Big Screws holding the bridge on... $101.
I just pulled it out tonight. I will be taking it out tomorrow!
It looks pretty bad... It Sounds Awesome! :D
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October 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Utah | OMA, I love your "Playing for Change" sign. |
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April 2006
Posts: 1017
Location: Budd Lake, NJ | What makes an Ovation "valuable"?
Most people probably wouldn't take a second look at my Gertrude, with her dings, the repaired "extra sound vent" that runs north-and-south from her purfling to her bridge, and all the other signs of being well-loved for 40 years or so--but in my eyes all the lottery winnings in the world wouldn't be enough to entice me give her up. Her ultimate "value" lies in the many, many years of memories and music that she's helped to make, and enjoy.
So, I guess, then, that the question refers to what makes something "marketable;" unfortunately, that's a issue that involves economics, needs, wants, public perceptions, personal experience, and probably a whole host of other subjective criteria I haven't listed and am probably not qualified to comment on, anyway.
There have been lots of items for sale or trade here on the board, and I have watched the comings and goings, to-ings and fro-ings with a great deal of interest. As to "valuable," well, the old adage says, "One man's trash is another man's treasure," and there's still a great deal of truth in that.
--Karen |
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Joined:
January 2006
Posts: 5881
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | Karen, my son feels the same way about my Legend Limited. He remembers many years of listening to me play that guitar at a campfire as he went to sleep in a camper or tent as a child. When asked what guitar he would want most out of my basement assortment, he always says the Legend Limited. |
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Joined:
August 2010
Posts: 40
Location: Baton Rouge, LA | Sorry for such a late posting. I have an early 80's 1612 that is badley cracked on top, through the wood. I'm sure worse than Old Man Arthur's 1612. It still sounds great and I play it often. I thought about getting it re-topped, but it's too much of a conversation piece.
Respect the 1612!
Your Pal,
Victor |
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Joined:
August 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Sydney | Originally posted by evvignes:
Sorry for such a late posting. I have an early 80's 1612 that is badley cracked on top, through the wood. I'm sure worse than Old Man Arthur's 1612. It still sounds great and I play it often. I thought about getting it re-topped, but it's too much of a conversation piece.
Respect the 1612!
Your Pal,
Victor You know something, I'm pretty sure I have the same guitar.
I picked up an early 80s 1612 with a big crack through the top and other unfortunate little bings but WOW the sound! It is far superior to the 1617 A Braced legend I have, and beats a 1112 balladeer I had in the past and other guitars I have now.
So on paper and in pictures, it wouldn't get much loving but something gives this baby heaps of volume and a wonderful tone that I can't let go of. |
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Joined:
March 2009
Posts: 715
| What makes a valuable Ovation? It's the one that gets played.
I was in a room full of pretty guitars at the Woodstock guitar show, but I didn't pick up a lot of them to play. None of them had that "play me" appeal that Ovations seem to have to me.
Michelle |
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What makes a valuable Ovation?