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Location: south east Michigan | While listening to The Acoustic Cafe today something really caught my ear. Didn't catch the important information so I'm stuck trying to find out where to buy it. I remember Dhani Harrison was involved but a search lead nowhere. Then I went to the A.C. website and found a detailed playlist from this mornings show was already posted. I figured out which one it was because I remember what was played just before it. Sooo.. Amazon dot com... click- click.. and there it was. It's not available yet so I bookmarked it and will keep checking in.
There will be nothing advertised when this is released. It will never be played on the "corporate" stations. The odds of me catching it on the Acoustic Cafe again are slim and none.
Here is the link...
Fistful of Mercy
Go down to track 4 called ..... "Father's Son"
It may not strike you like it did me but the point is that the days of hearing it on the radio and going over to the record store are long gone. Yeah... most of you already know this but today it was a real revelation to me. |
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Location: Atlanta, GA. | Yeah Brad. You can't get anything on 45's anymore either. :( |
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Location: 6 String Ranch | Pretty soon you won't be able to get ammo for your 45 either. |
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Location: south east Michigan | Even I knew that! |
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Location: Ohio | Nope...Seems the Glock 9mm is the standard of choice.... |
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Location: Utah | You gotta roll your own (ammo) these days. |
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Location: Orlando, FL | The more normal experience for me is liking a song on pandora and clicking the "buy on iTunes" or "buy on Amazon" button.
I also can't remember the last time I purchased a CD from a store. I have occasionally browsed CDs in a store and found something that I thought looked interesting, taken a picture of the cover on my phone and later looked it up on iTunes or Amazon to see if I liked it or not. And of course that's where I bought it. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I usually search the iTunes store for a particular song or artist to add to my library...a quick upload to my iPod and I'm ready to go...between the Computer audio system, my truck stereo, and my iPod, I'm never without sounds...
My record collection is in the process of my converting it to digital via USB turntable...
I loved the records but what a pain to move the collection every so often...same with my CD's...I started collecting music in one form or another in 1963...now I like the digital format just fine... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | SWMBO got me one of those USB turntables for Christmas, but after reading the directions, I thought, "we don't listen to the albums on the turntable anyway" so I haven't ever used it. |
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| Originally posted by MusicMishka:
I usually search the iTunes store for a particular song or artist to add to my library...a quick upload to my iPod and I'm ready to go...between the Computer audio system, my truck stereo, and my iPod, I'm never without sounds...
My record collection is in the process of my converting it to digital via USB turntable...
I loved the records but what a pain to move the collection every so often...same with my CD's...I started collecting music in one form or another in 1963...now I like the digital format just fine... Do you find that the sound is a bit compressed compared to CDs? I ask this because one day at my lesson, my teacher and I listened to "Father and Son" on CD vs. mp3. We could not believe how much of the sound was lost on the mp3. It was almost as if Alun Davie's parts were eliminated.
After hearing this, I'm not completely sold on the new technology I guess.
Michelle |
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Location: closely held secret | Of course it's compressed. The file is only 1/10th the size. The quality depends on the bitrate of the mp3 and the quality of the software doing the compressing. Though it is a very lossy format, cd's ripped at 320 or a variable bitrate with a high minimum can sound just as good. And there are lossless formats such as FLAC and Monkey.
Too many people just want to get as much music as they can on their mp3 players and don't seem to realize (or don't care) how much audio quality they lose when they convert their cd's to a bitrate of 96 or 128. Of course, listening to it through 4.99 earbuds they couldn't tell the difference anyway... |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | I buy CDs once a year at the VI Music Festival in the musicians tent. Other than that, most of the new artists I find seem to want to give away their music! (though their real fans like to give them money)
must get one of those usb turntables though, so I can turn our 7,000 LP collection into something we can listen to......that'll be a good month. |
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Location: Tennessee | I'm lucky to live in a place where there are still record stores. And I still buy records. Vinyl ones. And CDs. But I rarely buy and download mp3 or iTunes music, usually a single if I need it for something.
Most new music gets spread by word of mouth and/or your own micro-community these days. I think there is more good music to be found right now than ever before. You need to stay connected and take a leap of faith from time to time. But thanks Brad for posting this, it's an example of how the whole concept works.
Apple is trying to put some structure around this with their new Ping software add-on to iTunes. Amazon also has their "recommendations" service, but it's more product push than pure music information. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Even in the old days it was still peer to peer. You'd go over to someone's house, listen to a record, or they'd tell you about someone they saw. Listening to the radio was also a source, as it is today, you just have to find the right college station in your area. The difference today, to me, is the magnatitude of the choices. It's so big, and there's so much. It's almost like looking for someone in a phone book with no names. |
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Location: NJ | I refuse to pay for mp3's
the quality is horrible |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alpep:
I refuse to pay for mp3's
the quality is horrible This from a man who bought a set of used kettle drums |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | " listening to it through 4.99 earbuds they couldn't tell the difference anyway..."
Ding ding ding... we have a winner. The days of the monster "music audio" system are essentially dead. The majority of people listen to music on headsets or in their car. XM/Sirius or computer based radio stations like Rhapsody and Livewire are the norm.
Oh, and by the way... the "$4.99" earbuds are what we old farts use. The "kids" these days spend almost as much on the earbuds as they do on their shoes. "Ear buds" or "in ear headphones" as they are called by Klipsch, Sony, Sennheiser and Etymotic Research are in the $50-70+ range. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Here's the truth...
"What is sound and frequency? Sound is a longitudinal mechanical wave of any frequency. Frequency is the number of cycles, or complete vibration experienced at each point per unit. Frequency is measured in hertz. The hertz, Hz, is the derived SI unit of frequency. The frequency of a sound wave determines its tone and pitch. The frequency range of a young person is about 20 to 20,000 hertz."
As we age, our "hearable" frequency range decreases. Almost any low-priced headphones can reproduce sound in these ranges, as can cheap bookshelf speakers. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Yeah Miles. Get a hearing test (now that we are all old farts) and you'll realise the super expensive stereo system is wasted on you.
When I was 20, my father had a very expensive stereo system - testing with a sine wave generator revealed he couldn't hear anything over 16kHz, where as I made it up to 20kHz. Most of the benefits of expensive systems was in that range - the cheap systems performed OK in that range.
I can still hear the difference between $4.99 ear buds and $20 ones, but I doubt the $70 ones would add much value to these old ears. |
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Location: Texas | If you don't like the quality of songs purchased online, then just buy the CD, rip the songs (for your use only) to the highest bit-rate MP3s that your software allows, (or, better-yet, use a lossless format.) Put those files on your portable player of choice, use good-quality headphones (NOT the ones that came with your MyPod or whatever player you use) OR run the audio DIRECTLY from the digital player into your home or car music system (not through a cassette-adapter or FM tuner, etc.) and you CAN get sound that's comparable to the original CD. The drawback is that the files will be much larger, so you can't fit as many songs on the device…
Now, if you just don't like the sound of CDs and really prefer the sound of vinyl… Then you probably shouldn't be messing with portable devices anyway… ;)
It's a quality-versus-convenience issue. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I've never bit on the idea of a good car music system. A small room made of glass with an engine running in it and lots of outside noise just doesn't seem like the place for trying to listen to quality music. The prior owner spent too much for Bose surround sound in my car, but I wouldn't.
The new owner of my old car immediately hooked up his mp3 player and that intrigues me. Changing CDs has become a hassle and I'm slowly seeing the benefits of satellite radio or mp3s. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by standing:
Now, if you just don't like the sound of CDs and really prefer the sound of vinyl… Then you probably shouldn't be messing with portable devices anyway… ;)
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Location: Orlando, FL | Originally posted by standing:
It's a quality-versus-convenience issue. Exactly! It also depends on whether you want to listen to music or really hear the music. If that makes sense... |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by Waskel:
Originally posted by standing:
Now, if you just don't like the sound of CDs and really prefer the sound of vinyl… Then you probably shouldn't be messing with portable devices anyway… ;)
Actually, it reminds me of my first "amp." I learned to play on a an import solid-body electric, and the only method I had to amplify it was my cheap portable record player which had a 1/4" line-in jack… man, THAT was a tone machine… ;) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Listening to music is just like different types of meals. Fast food on the go, quick snack, sit down meal, formal dinner. You choose. The quality and effort will very accordingly. |
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| Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I've never bit on the idea of a good car music system. A small room made of glass with an engine running in it and lots of outside noise just doesn't seem like the place for trying to listen to quality music. The prior owner spent too much for Bose surround sound in my car, but I wouldn't.
The new owner of my old car immediately hooked up his mp3 player and that intrigues me. Changing CDs has become a hassle and I'm slowly seeing the benefits of satellite radio or mp3s. I don't get it either. But I have to say that the best sound system I have is my car stereo, because it is the only one I have (except for a CD clock radio).
Michelle |
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| Originally posted by Waskel:
Of course it's compressed. The file is only 1/10th the size. The quality depends on the bitrate of the mp3 and the quality of the software doing the compressing. Though it is a very lossy format, cd's ripped at 320 or a variable bitrate with a high minimum can sound just as good. And there are lossless formats such as FLAC and Monkey.
Too many people just want to get as much music as they can on their mp3 players and don't seem to realize (or don't care) how much audio quality they lose when they convert their cd's to a bitrate of 96 or 128. Of course, listening to it through 4.99 earbuds they couldn't tell the difference anyway... I was just wondering if it sounded "compressed" meaning loss of instruments from the original track.
I have no idea what bitrate means, but I have noticed that people seem to want to put 300 songs in a space of say 150.
Michelle |
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Location: closely held secret | Sorry, I misunderstood. No, you don't lose instruments, but you lose quality of sound. "Bitrate" in digital media represents the amount of information or detail stored per unit of time of a recording, expressed in kilobits per second. A 96kb bitrate mp3 would only have half the information of an mp3 at 192kb (CD quality is around 1400kb, or 1 megabyte per minute of audio). Less information = less detail, so your ears may tell you an instrument has been removed, when actually there just isn't enough detail in the sound for you to clearly discern it.
"Brittle" is the word that comes to mind when listening to music in low bitrates. Similar to listening to a high-quality recording over AM radio. The amount of "information" transmitted is too low to represent the music in its true form.
There's also "variable bitrate", in which the encoding software attempts to raise and lower the bitrate accordingly to match the "density" of the audio in order to provide higher quality where needed. And as I said, there are also other formats (FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec, and Monkey Audio, among others) which are much better at compressing without losing audio quality, but are not well supported in mobile devices.
Personally when I rip to mp3 I usually use 320kb. It's a good medium between CD and crappy sound. You don't get as much space saving as 128k or 160k, but with storage media being what it is these days, who cares. |
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| Thanks, Waskel! :D
But none of this technology is going to matter if the music is crappy to begin with :) :
Michelle |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Bitrates, nitrates, phosphates. I thought Waskel was giving lawn advice again. |
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Location: closely held secret | I've got my own lawn problems.
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Location: Phoenix AZ | God Bless the NRA |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Being of British stock, the medium makes no difference to me.
"The English may not like music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes."
- Thomas Beecham |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | After reading through this thread, I am shocked at how many people are comparing CD's and .mp3's.
Obviously, there is some loss in quality going from CD to .mp3 (as was pointed out... unless you decompress from .flac or one of the other lossless formats), but to most audiophiles I know (and that is fairly large number...), CD's are DEAD for all intents and purposes.
Most of the really 'serious' guys have gone back to or are re-focusing on vinyl again (usually 180 or 200 gram remasters from the original analog with NO digital reprocessing).
Personally, I really liked the CD format (except for the covers which are usually too hard for us old guys to read...), but even I have to admit the music industry shifting away from vinyl was a really stupid move. They basically shot themselves in the johnson and are finally coming to that conclusion themselves.
Now that more people are going back to vinyl (many music stores in Canada have as much vinyl or almost as much as CD's now...) including the younger crowd, hopefully the price of laser turntables will drop enough for the average person to afford one. This is the ULTIMATE audiophile listening experience!! As the laser reads from the 'shoulder' of the groove, even only fair to good vinyl sounds like brand new every time... and without the telltale compression described earlier.
Digital is great for convienience, but nothing compares to true analog audio...
Check it out... http://www.elpj.com/ |
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Location: NJ | if you love cds then you need a good quality D to A
(digital to analog) converter I recommend the lavry but the benchmark is also very good. ONce I hooked it up to my system I though someone took the blankets off my speakers.
OK I triamp now and have an audio research tube crossover 2 tube amps driving the mids and highs a kryston 2.0 on the low end with a white eq and let's say I am always tweaking the system but I would not have it any other way. I put a cd on yesterday and the lows rumbled the foundation of the house.
I don't understand how so many people into music are not into a quality listening experience.
if your best system is in your car or in your pocket YOU HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM |
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Location: NJ | if you love cds then you need a good quality D to A
(digital to analog) converter I recommend the lavry but the benchmark is also very good. ONce I hooked it up to my system I though someone took the blankets off my speakers.
OK I triamp now and have an audio research tube crossover 2 tube amps driving the mids and highs a kryston 2.0 on the low end with a white eq and let's say I am always tweaking the system but I would not have it any other way. I put a cd on yesterday and the lows rumbled the foundation of the house.
I don't understand how so many people into music are not into a quality listening experience.
if your best system is in your car or in your pocket YOU HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM |
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Location: closely held secret | Why would you be "shocked"? It's only been going on for about 15 years.
The LT's have been around for 20 years. Currently they sell for $12,000. Don't expect a big price drop soon. |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | Any audio format can sound amazing, when listened to a good quality system and set up for maximum performance.
I have approximately 2500 cassettes sitting on the shelf here, and occassionally pop one in to remind myself how awful they were. I put one on the other day (Vangelis, the one on Deutsches Gramaphon with the crab on the cover... title escapes me...) and was shocked at how good it sounded!!
I also have the vinyl AND the CD of the same album, so just for fun I A/B/C'ed them (starting the same track and switching the channels in and out on the mixing console to compare...). The cassette which was unplayed before this was virtually indestinguishable from the CD and both sounded quite caparable to the vinyl, which sounded AWESOME!!
I have found there is little point in being a 'format snob'... there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Waskel, tell your elk they missed a spot.
Al, I'm not so sure that many people agree with you. They may think they are "into music" and think that they have a "quality listening experience" but it's totally different from your experience.
Someone asked me yesterday if a high end audio store could answer my question about hooking up an mp3 jack to my car stereo, but I wasn't sure if the high end store he referred to is still around anymore.
The laser turntable sounded interesting until I saw the price. My old one still works fine. |
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| Originally posted by alpep:
I don't understand how so many people into music are not into a quality listening experience.
if your best system is in your car or in your pocket YOU HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM Well, the problem is money (lack of it) and priorities.
Well, I guess it has never been that big of a deal for me. My parents never invested a lot of money into stereos, but they invested a lot of money into a "sound system" called the Thomas organ.
I guess I might be doing the same thing. Less money on an audio system and more money into something that helps me make my own sounds and help discover who I am musically.
It isn't that I don't listen to music, it's just thatI don't sit and critically listen to music long enough to justify spending a ton of money on equipment. Sad, but true.
michelle |
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Location: Utah | The biggest impediment to a good listening experience is interruption. Kids, dogs, neighbor's dogs, kids' friends calling on the phone, etc etc.
My favorite way to listen is with a good set of headphones. |
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Location: south east Michigan | IMHO, many people today don't listen to music... they as much as they collect it.
.
By chance I happened to see a review of the disc I'm looking for in USA Today. Funny how something can catch your eye when your radar is up for it in the first place.
Fistful Of Mercy - As I Call You Down |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | I'll probably piss off all ages with this comment, but I don't think people listen to music anymore--they watch it. Even before MTV, which is now way less music and much more TV, people went to concerts where it was impossible to listen, but people went for the show, not the music. Volumes were raised above listening levels, the show had props and pyrotechnics and as Robert Plant said recently, your ears bled for two days afterward. My feeble stereo system at home was much better quality music than the live concert, and I didn't have to put up with drunk or stoned people talking or yelling throughout. If the family members wouldn't shut up, I'd could don the headphones as FlySig suggested.
We don't listen with our ears anymore. Our eyes distort the sound. Someone as homely as Susan Boyle is presumed to be a lousy singer. Not too many years ago, no one would have been surprised that she has a great voice.
Media rooms were the rage for a few years, but now are one of the top five losers in the housing market. Nobody sits and listens to those fancy surround sound systems they bought.
Then there's talk radio and rap. Too much on my hate list. I'll go hide in the basement and put my headphones on. |
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Location: closely held secret | When I was a teenager I used to watch music for hours. Then I'd get dizzy and throw up. |
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Location: Sydney, Australia | Well I listen to it on my iPhone all the time. I copy the songs from CD (mostly) in the highest quality format allowed (I'm not up on all the techno details, but I get the idea that a smaller file has less information) using the medium quality ear buds that came with it. I could get better quality by getting noise cancellation headphones (the ambient noise on the train makes more expensive ear buds pointless without that feature), but then I'd probably get run over by a car while crossing the road.
Is it the best possible music system around? No. Is it always around and ready to go? You betcha! |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | Hey Waskel...
Who needs a stereo when you have a view like that and quadrophonic elk(s)
:D |
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Location: Campbell River, British Columbia | Just bought this book after hearing the fellow interviewed on the CBC a while ago.
I expect to have much more discriminating ears any moment now.
As it is now, I can't tell the difference between
E and E/B |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by TAFKAR:
Well I listen to it on my iPhone all the time. Same here. Apple has done great things with their compression.
Originally posted by Avatar4550:
Hey Waskel...
Who needs a stereo when you have a view like that and quadrophonic elk(s)
:D It does make em jump and run when I crank up "Money For Nothing"... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | On a GOOOD system, the difference between CD and vinyl is negligible.
It will also show the inadequacies (crappiness) of low bit rate mp3 vs high quality lossless audio such as FLAC/APE/MONKEY.
When I toss a CD with HD Audio, DTS audio or DVD Audio onto the player, the heavens open up for a religious experience. |
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Location: NJ | I remember when the first thing you did was steal some cinder blocks and 2 x 12's make some shelves and get the best system you can afford, then every friday or sat night you would get together and LISTEN to new music or music you did not own drink beer etc.
listening to music is no longer a social thing. going to concerts is a way to catch up with friends and talk during the show. recently I went to several shows where the audience was engaged in conversation or texting or calling people sorry folks that is not listening to music or enjoying a live show.
It took me years to get my hi fi where it is now and there is still work to be done. what I spent for the whole thing many spend on CABLES ALONE.
Stephen T makes my system look like a walkman. but until you listen to music on a good system you will NEVER understand. I got spoiled I worked in a hifi place when I was a teenager. I never looked back. I pride myself on being able to hear music in a way the average listener is not capable of.
my nephew spends a ton of time with me, he is now 21 and he is blown away by my hi fi. He basically told me that no one knows how good their music can sound now because it is just not available to them. sure the big thing is surrround sound for movies but no longer is that a must for MUSIC and I find it sad very sad.
ultimately I will enjoy my music in the best conditions that I can and I will continue to tweak my system..... |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | The good old days. I actually splurged and bought fancy cinder blocks, painted them red and had my used Sansui receiver and Sony Reel to Reel with speakers in homemade enclosures set up on the boards. The bean bag chair usually went in the middle of the room and both of us could fit on (or in) it. Lots of listening and feeling going on with the eyes closed most of the time.
Our house and furniture are much upgraded, but the stereo is downgraded. I just got a cheap Sherwood receiver to replace the broken Teac. It's hard to find a basic stereo anymore. They want to sell you a media A/V system with a .1 after everything. I don't have a place to put all those speakers, especially a woofer.
You are lucky your nephew appreciates music, Al. Mine listens to talk radio and texts. |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
I don't have a place to put all those speakers, especially a woofer. It would just chase your cat anyway. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
The good old days. Lots of listening and feeling going on with the eyes closed most of the time. Other peoples bean bag chairs always felt kinda sticky for some reason...??? |
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Location: Seattle | Too much Vanilla Fudge and Quicksilver Messenger Service..... I cannot critically listen to anything driving down the road in the VW bus..... however when listening to the Greatful Dead gets me 3 extra hp. |
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Location: NJ | you can find stereo equipment but you have to get out of the big box stores. they just want to sell surround sound systems. and these often double as a pretty good hi fi but it is just not the same.
when you get down to it the surround sound is just a complicated crossover and amp. I think it is more fun to do it yourself and play with it.
some of the most peaceful times I have are when I am wiring up equipment and then firing it up and listening to the improved sound.
better than chanting a mantra |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by alpep:
some of the most peaceful times I have are when I am wiring up equipment and then firing it up and listening to the improved sound.
Man, you nailed it.
I can't count the number of times I used to come home from a super stressful day...plop down in the sweet spot, close my eyes and hit play.
made everything right with the world....... |
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Location: NJ | AND DOING THAT WITH AN IPOD IS JUST WRONG. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | Mark: The bean bag chair usually went in the middle of the room and both of us could fit on (or in) it. Absolutely essential!!
Al, I agree and yet for portability it's hard to beat...
Here is the vintage early 70's Sansui project stereo I have been putting together: Sansui 7070 Receiver, 1050C Belt Drive Turntable w/Shure cartridge and a pair each of 5500X and 7500X Speakers...our space is limited here so I have them stacked at the moment...the RCA CD player does look out of place but sounds fantastic through this system...looking for a Sansui Cassette deck.
They made a 9090 Receiver but this one is so loud I can't see the advantage...but I'm sure that it's great as well...These Speakers are awesome...Stephen: come home and relax and crank it to 4 or 5...whoa!!!
I have a 100 watt Sony component system w/Bose Acoustimass 10 series 2 speaker system...it sounds great but this vintage system is just cool...(in boxes due to lack of space)...
Here is the album: Vintage Sansui
and several pic's:
Definitely not portable nor for the "faint of heart"...
It Rocks!!! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Mike, that looks like my receiver. Just got rid of it a couple years ago after one channel crapped out. |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I bought these last year in the fall on eBay...different sellers...I had been looking for these since hearing my cousin's back in the day...awesome sound and incredible power...not in mint condition but seems to work very well...no issues at the moment...same with the speakers: the fake exterior veneer is peeling in places but the grills are in nice shape for the most part...for what I paid, I'm a happy guy!! |
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Location: NJ | get the grilles back on those speakers you have kids |
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Location: Tennessee | Do you play your iPod through that set-up? How's it sound? |
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Location: closely held secret | effing ineffable. |
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Location: Capital District, NY, USA Minor Outlying Islands | Due to space limitations (my future wife moved in), when living in Brooklyn, I had to sell my 5 foot tall speakers, my vintage SONY tape deck, radio shack turntable and CD player. I converted my records to CD's on my computer. Gee that was over 10 years ago now.
I have a precursor to the Bose v system, which is perfectly adequate for my needs. It's small puts out good sound, but every once in a while I wish I had that sheer force of a pair of 12 inch woofers ...
Anyway, I'm not going back, I'm too old to be lifting all that stuff, and even though I now own a house, I still don't have the space ... though now I've got my own room for guitar gear! |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | While all the chat of great sound systems is enlightening... the fact remains that nearly no one (truly just a handful) of people sit and listen to music on a sound system anymore. The only time I have just sat and listened to music in the past... 10+ years is basically when I was paid to (mixing or mastering). I had killer stereos in the 80's and 90's that never got used cause I never spent much time in my house. I eventually used them for DJ'ing. My 1000+ albums are in boxes in storage, and my 1000+ CD's ended up on my iPod and I sold the CD's.
While most people will never relate to the term "sonic quality" I think people, especially the under 30 crowd, listen to more music today than was ever possible when I was under 30.
While we struggled to carry our Cassette, 8-Track and eventually CD-packs around then, today I carry in my pocket more music from more artists than I have ever owned. And, if I want to listen to a tune by an artist, I listen to it.
And I guess for me that ability to listen to a tune I want to hear without digging, or to find a new tune in a matter of moments, and having to do no more than press play, is the attraction and frankly I don't ever recall just sitting and listening to an album. I can't think of an album I even like all the songs on.
So each to his own... as long as you are listening to music in some form. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I STILL take the time to sit and just LISTEN to the music on my system at least twice a week for a minimum of 1 CD (45-60 minutes).
Like so many other things.....once you stop or find excuses it is all to easy to let it slip away. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by stephent28:
I STILL take the time to sit and just LISTEN to the music on my system at least twice a week for a minimum of 1 CD (45-60 minutes).
Like so many other things.....once you stop or find excuses it is all to easy to let it slip away. I envy you, I'm lucky of I can listen to one song without interruption these days…
Kids find it difficult to believe that in the "old days" friends would get together specifically to sit and listen and pay attention to entire "albums," only talking while flipping the LP over to side B…
"You had to flip them over? Why?"
Whoever had the best equipment was usually nominated as host. It took a decent system to clearly hear the arrows flying in "Zen Archer."
It may seem archaic now, but it was a music-geek's idea of the perfect evening back then…
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Location: NJ | you can't listen to music on an ipod you only hear it.
listening is an active not passive activity.
yes turn off the tv for 30 minutes and put on a cd sit in the sweet spot of the room and enjoy.
giving up cd's for mp3's is just wrong. sorry but would you give up your moto guzzi or victory for a 125cc yamaha? doubt it. but the yamaha is much lighter and it still gets you there in the same way. but it may be a little rougher to ride and not go as fast.....
there is NO excuse for not owning at least a mid quality system and to be an active listener.
how many times we criticize people who own many guitars and barely can play? |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Both schools of thought definitely have their merits. While I would LOVE to be in the "Sit and Listen" camp, most of my time is spent in cars and airplanes where my ipod is my savior.
In those rare times when I can just sit and listen to something at home by myself, it would have to be with headphones on so as not to disturb the rest of the clan. But even then... those times are truly relaxing. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Even when my kids were young and lived at home (now 35 & 29) they learned to take the time to LISTEN to the music. They constantly amaze their friends with their musical knowledge and my daughter loves to play "name that artist" and can almost beat me on the pre-2000 music (60s-90s).
While both now primarily listen on iPods, they never fail to get their "FIX" when home visiting mom and dad....which means popping some tunes on dad's stereo and letting the music envelop them! |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | Life gets in the way. Maybe when the relatives leave this weekend, I'll go find a bean bag chair (or maybe not, after dark bar's comment), get SWMBO into sitting next to me in the middle of the room and listen to at least one album or CD.
Despite my reluctance to embrace new technology, I am looking at some sort of mp3 adaptor for the car. We drove over 5000 miles on trips this year and changing the CDs became tedious. In the one car we have with a changer, we tend to leave 6 CDs in the changer for months. The huge storage of an mp3, as Miles points out, is an advantage. I'm not sure I agree that people under 30 listen to more music, especially if you define "listen" like Al does. Playing stuff on your computer in the background is like playing elevator music. When I can hear what's playing through somebody else's earbuds, they can't really be listening to it. It's up to the level where the music becomes noise. If a kid thinks that putting two huge speakers together and taking up the back seat of a car constitutes a good stereo system, he doesn't understand what stereo means. If you increase the volume in the earbuds to the point anyone else can clearly hear it, the wearer can't be listening. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
Despite my reluctance to embrace new technology, I am looking at some sort of mp3 adaptor for the car. We drove over 5000 miles on trips this year and changing the CDs became tedious. That's the best reason to own one… On long drives, I don't have to guess what musical mood I might be in. iPods have an on-the-fly playlist feature so you create a new playlist anytime. (Please, not while you're driving, though…) |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | get the grilles back on those speakers you have kids Don't worry Al, only came off for the pic's...
And Bobbo, I need to get a dock and then I will...
Miles, I agree with what you said about having more music in your pocket than in your media collections...I have nearly 3,000 albums, 700 Cassettes, 200 8 Tracks, and well over 1,000 CD's; I have a 160gig iPod that holds most of what I want to hear and then some...plus pic's and video's although I don't have any video's at the moment on it...
The great thing is the kids absolutely love the big stereo and my other system...especially my daughter...she sits and listens for hours at a time...and she has my older 8gig iPod to listen to when traveling...I can't speak for anyone else, but my kids will grow up learning and appreciating music of many kinds...and they have a great head start! |
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Location: Tennessee | For some, a laminated Celebrity is enough. For others, it has to be a USA Ovation. For still others, anything short of a Slothead or something of equal merit is a compromise. Personally, I'm in all three camps. It just depends on where I am and what I'm doing.
That's the way it is with the music choices we're debating here. We debated cassette, 8 track, and reel-to-reel, too. The arguments were the same as today. We're now operating under a corollary to Moore's Law when it comes to playing music on devices so we have a lot more choices. And because of that, we can store more bits and therefore the quality of digital music is coming up and being appreciated by more and more people.
I am in the tiny minority who sit and listen to music. Truth be told, it has always been a minority. It just seems more pronounced now because we're in that phase of the continuum where singles and one-hit wonders are what people buy and listen to (remind anyone of the late 50's to mid 60's). It's a cultural thing. But, there is a growing move towards albums again, and more and more of the next generation are listening critically to albums. Vinyl is also making a huge comeback, and not just for scratching these days.
Before you know it, the AOR format will be back in vogue and music lovers will be debating the merits of bands given their body of work and musicality. It's happening already. |
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Location: NJ | bobbo
I disagree that it was always a minority.
I think as technology changed more emphasis on movies and home theatres the music just got pushed to the background
if you go by stereo stores that have closed then yes it is smaller but I think the focus has shifted.
a few years back they were converting old grateful dead lps to surround sound. but that was 3 way and now it is what 7 way or more it is all about the crossovers and eq's
that is why the car sounds like it is passing you in the room or the helicopter is lifting off the ground...... |
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Location: Tennessee | Video killed the radio star.
I do have 5.1 sound also, with plenty of watts to all five channels plus a big powered subwoofer. And yes, it was really for movies, not listening to music. But for music? Listen to the Beatles Love in the DTS mastered version on that! Or watch Hell Freezes Over by the Eagles. Some of the stuff on Palladia is simply fantastic.
Al, I will still contend that people who "sit down and listen to music" have always been a minority. I was referencing the word "listen" in the same context you used it earlier. I concede your point that people who bought surround sound systems (mostly junk) no longer needed their stereo systems so they have disappeared from most people's homes. But those people never "listened" to music anyway, they just had a stereo system because you were supposed to have one. Every home had a stereo system ... in case people came over, you know? They had music as a background thing, like something you could dance to, or sing along to the top 10 hits. And "in the day", kids were hearing their music from transistor radios and AM. It's not a whole lot different now except that iPods and other portable music devices are better than in terms of fidelity. But there was, and still is, only a small fanatical group of audiophiles and music lovers who sit down and listen to the music. They are the ones that went and caught the audio bug. Everyone else sort of went through the passing phase and now are quite happy with their Bose Acoustic Wave system ... which in all fairness probably produces better sound than anything they had in their heyday of buying records and tapes. |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | We need to go visit a college campus and see if they still sit in the dorm rooms and talk about whatever the equivalent is to cassettes vs. 8 tracks (8 tracks were for losers) woofers, tweeters, watts per channel, wow and flutter and that stuff we used to talk about. I suspect now they talk like Waskel.
I check the musicians site on our Craigslist almost daily and rarely see anything musical. They talk about screaming instead of singing. I don't know if the high school and college crowd really do listen to music. |
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Location: SoCal | For the people who really care about the total experience of listening to music, like Al, having the proper equipment is important. No argument.
But iPods are wonderful for their purpose. For me, it means no more hauling cd's out to the car to listen while driving. My library is organized and backed up online.
I like the music, but it's more what it says rather than the feel of it. Probably why I've learned a lot of tunes but never became a really good guitar player. I was always more interested in what a really good song says...... |
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | Originally posted by Mark in Boise:
We need to go visit a college campus and see if they still sit in the dorm rooms and talk about whatever the equivalent is to cassettes vs. 8 tracks (8 tracks were for losers) woofers, tweeters, watts per channel, wow and flutter and that stuff we used to talk about. Wii, PS3, xBox
I also agree with Al. If you really want to experience music, you really haven't heard music until you've heard it on a high-end system.
I think the other points are simply that most people these days do not listen to music to "experience" it like they used to. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | I have been shocked by some of the "meager" music collections that some of my friends have.
I was at a house party a couple weeks ago and noticed that they had a total of LESS than 50 CDs in their entire collection.
Years ago when I was building up my collection, 50 CDs would have been a good month's worth of purchases.
Now granted, I know that when I look at my CDs, LPs, Laser Discs, DVDs (and yes cassettes) that I have WAAAAYYYY TOOOOO MANY!
But LESS THAN 50!
Come on.....that's not even enough to have a decent variety of the various genres. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by Mr. Ovation:
Wii, PS3, xBox and Facebook and Online Games…
Originally posted by stephent28:
I have been shocked by some of the "meager" music collections that some of my friends have.
I was at a house party a couple weeks ago and noticed that they had a total of LESS than 50 CDs in their entire collection. Many folks have zero CDs these days, their collections are all on their computers/iPods. |
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Location: Michigan | merry christmas everybody GWB |
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Location: NJ | Yes we did not bring in the gaming factor. My nephew has games on his phone and between texting he is constantly playing on the phone.
Bobbo I understand your point now. Listeners were a minority as opposed to folks who had a stereo because it was an equivalent to a blender the appliance of the month. much like many have run out and bought flat screens and surround sound systems because the newspapers say we have to have them.
Since I am in contact with some younger kids via my nephew I can tell you that they do talk about music but not int he ways we did. They don't scan the lp covers for clues and read and know every liner note, lyric and musician. The current music scene is a wasteland and if you are not into the pop stuff that is shoved down our throats, the lady gagas, lohans, aguilleras, etc etc you have to seek out alternatives on college radio and raid your parents and their friends record collections.
Guess what? that is EXACTLY what I did growing up. I listened to alternative radio, and read magazines and sought out alternative music some was good some sucked. the difference is now if there is one song I want I can get that (although in a highly inferior format) instead of buying a whole LP that was imported from England or Germany that cost me twice the money of a US version.
From hanging out at local coffeehouses I see many singer songwriters in their late teens early twenties and they obviously do not listen to pop music and radio so where do they get their stuff? they seek it out. One 16 year old in particular has a killer voice writes tunes that rival those twice her age and has a highly sophisticated musical palate. Where did she get it? Parents, friends, mentors, etc she sought it out. it is funny how I do some 40 year old tunes and she would come up to me and ask about it wonder who wrote it etc. That is how you learn about music.
so get your guitar go out where people are playing perform and help them get a better knowledge about music. Invite them to your home have them listen to real music on a real hi fi and you will be surprised at the amount of converts we will make |
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Location: south east Michigan | If I ever am lucky enough get out to bobbos I hope to to get a demo of his system.
I got a feeling I don't know what I've been missing.
I'll bring Live At Leeds. |
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| Haven't seen/heard Bobbo's system (yet), but T28's setup is to die for. The speakers alone ( electrostatic ) are probably worth more than my car. |
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Location: Marlton, NJ | Looking at it from another perspective... when we moved our daughter up to college, I was comparing the differences between what she brought and what I brought years ago. I had the humongous stereo system, with huge Criterion speakers (still sitting in my office), crates of records and a fridge. That's what every other guy on the floor had as well. Of course it was a competition as to who had the biggest and best system.
My daughter has got the ipod, the laptop and the fridge. It was much easier to move her in than it was for me all those years ago. Of course now they also have microwaves, flat screen TVs and a host of other modern conveniences.
Brad - I still have Live At Leeds on vinyl. It's one of my favorites. |
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Location: Tennessee | Bring the vinyl, Brad. But I don't have a great system; mid-fi at best. There's some folks here that have the real deal ... and it's a whole different league. It not unusual for gear-heads in the hi-fi arena to spend $50K+ on their system and engage in a constant quest to swap gear in and out in search of perfect tone. Kinda like some folks and guitars. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | If you have not got a $1500 vinyl CLEANER, you're not even in the game ... |
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Location: NJ | sadly I am not in the game |
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Location: closely held secret | Originally posted by Slipkid:
If I ever am lucky enough get out to bobbos I hope to to get a demo of his system.
I got a feeling I don't know what I've been missing.
I'll bring Live At Leeds. Someday, Brad. Carry it with you everywhere just in case. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by Gallerinski:
If you have not got a $1500 vinyl CLEANER, you're not even in the game ... I think I'd have to draw the line a bit below that purchase. For that kind of cash, you can get a nice guitar and make your own music…
Between the ringing in my ears, creaking in my joints and voices in my head, I'd never hear the difference anyway… ;) |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Originally posted by alpep:
sadly I am not in the game I'm "half" in the game. I've got the VPI-HW17. The HW27 is the one you want but I'm not even sure you can get it for 1500.
It sounds like crazy money until you start adding up what your LP collection cost you, expecially a fair number MFSL and YSL half speed masters. They sound better when they are clean and they last longer. Remember, you're dragging a hard stylus across a soft vinyl surface over and over again. Hard for todays generation to even imagine such a thing. I spent my college years working in an "Audio Salon", so I got some price breaks. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | don't forget the rice paper sleeves for proper LP storage |
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Location: Tennessee | I still have my original discwasher from the late 70's. They still sell D4 too. So I'm set. |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | still the red bottle? |
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Location: Boise, Idaho | When the Fidelco record came with the OFC, I found out the stylus was broken on the old turntable. It took quite awhile to find one, since turntables then seemed to be used more for scratching records than for playing them. Then it took several attempts to figure out how to use the turntable, but I did find my discwasher and a few albums. I had forgotten those olden days. |
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| Originally posted by stonebobbo:
I still have my original discwasher from the late 70's. Still have my '60s anti-static gun, turntable LP cleaning assistant setup and the later discwasher and box, sans cleaning fluid.
You all are really taking me waaaay back! |
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Location: south east Michigan | At one time I had one of those pistol like things that you aimed at the record, squeezed the trigger slowly, and got rid of all the static stuck to the vinyl.
Thats gotta count for some kind of street cred. |
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Location: Michigan | and to all
a good night ...
its coming
ho ho ho . GWB |
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Location: Blue Ridge Mountains | I still have my original discwasher from the late 70's. They still sell D4 too. So I'm set. Ditto...and the small red brush as well... |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | The European members of the board must be trying to contain their laughter (or at least, be a bit baffled) by all the vinyl nostalgia on offer here.
In Europe, vinyl never went away. The buying into all the 'audio lies' the music industry was selling was strictly an American (and to somewhat lesser degree... Canadian) phenomena.
When the industry types went over there and tried to convince them vinyl was dead and MC's were the next big thing... then CD's... then... then... they all just nodded politely (as they always do...) and got on with their listening... in large part, to all the latest titles... on VINYL!!
You can't blame the music industry shills for trying though... It worked when they told us prog was dead and then proceeded to shove RAP down our throats.
The Europeans are still laughing hard about that one too... |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Funny, the CD was invented in europe. |
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | An excerpt from an article on the history of CD technology...
"Actually, Philips and Sony simply licensed much of their claim from technology that was invented 20 years earlier. Jim Russell, a scientist at Battelle's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, WA invented the "optical-digital data-storage technology..."
Hmmm... I always thought Philips invented it as well... And a wonderous thing it is too!! |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by Avatar4550:
The European members of the board must be trying to contain their laughter (or at least, be a bit baffled) by all the vinyl nostalgia on offer here.
In Europe, vinyl never went away. The buying into all the 'audio lies' the music industry was selling was strictly an American (and to somewhat lesser degree... Canadian) phenomena.
When the industry types went over there and tried to convince them vinyl was dead and MC's were the next big thing... then CD's... then... then... they all just nodded politely (as they always do...) and got on with their listening... in large part, to all the latest titles... on VINYL!!
In the USA, buyers are easily influenced. And CD's are much cheaper to produce than vinyl.
Then they charge more money for the CD's than for the vinyl.
You can't blame the music industry shills for trying though... It worked when they told us prog was dead and then proceeded to shove RAP down our throats. The Europeans are still laughing hard about that one too... Rap Crap is so easy to produce and does not entail any musical talent... Like the ability to play any kind of instrument. All the marketers need is a blank slate to mold to their sales program.
Unfortunately for the media, now that the world has switched to digital program files I haven't bought an New album in Years. I just listen to Pandora. I do still buy old stuff from thrift stores. But I have not heard any new music on the radio that was worth buying.
I do see some new artists on ACL and there are some interesting local artists here in Portland.
Plus some OFC members have posted some good music. :eek: :D |
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Location: NJ | I still have a discwasher and fluid in the red bottle.
I will agree that vinyl is king but with the right d to a converter cds sound awesome.
of course you need the right amps and speakers and ....... |
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Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by alpep:
I will agree that vinyl is king but with the right d to a converter cds sound awesome.
That's my opinion also. 98% of the vinyl sound with 500% less hassle. |
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Location: Utah | Originally posted by Avatar4550:
An excerpt from an article on the history of CD technology...
"Actually, Philips and Sony simply licensed much of their claim from technology that was invented 20 years earlier. Jim Russell, a scientist at Battelle's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, WA invented the "optical-digital data-storage technology..." I thought David Bowie's character, the alien, in The Man Who Fell to Earth in the early 70's invented it. |
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Location: closely held secret | You'd be amazed how many people believe Bill Gates wrote DOS. |
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Location: Texas | Originally posted by stephent28:
Originally posted by alpep:
I will agree that vinyl is king but with the right d to a converter cds sound awesome.
That's my opinion also. 98% of the vinyl sound with 500% less hassle. |
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Location: Phoenix AZ | Couple of years ago Al turned me on to a Lavry Engineering D/A converter. VERY nice. |
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Location: NJ | it is the best |
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| Originally posted by Avatar4550:
The European members of the board must be trying to contain their laughter (or at least, be a bit baffled) by all the vinyl nostalgia on offer here.
In Europe, vinyl never went away. The buying into all the 'audio lies' the music industry was selling was strictly an American (and to somewhat lesser degree... Canadian) phenomena.
When the industry types went over there and tried to convince them vinyl was dead and MC's were the next big thing... then CD's... then... then... they all just nodded politely (as they always do...) and got on with their listening... in large part, to all the latest titles... on VINYL!!
You can't blame the music industry shills for trying though... It worked when they told us prog was dead and then proceeded to shove RAP down our throats.
The Europeans are still laughing hard about that one too... You're a bigger twat than I thought you were. And I thought you were King Size. |
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Location: Flahdaw | Now the Yanks are cracking up. |
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Posts: 4413
| I thought you were dead. In fact I would have bet my shirt on it.
Welcome back. |
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February 2005
Posts: 11840
Location: closely held secret | I hope it was a manly shirt. |
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Posts: 4536
Location: Flahdaw | Does glitter count? |
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Posts: 370
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | I speak to people in Europe on a daily basis and what I said is an accurate impression of what I have heard from them on the subject I mentioned.
Was this an attack on Americans or their character... Far from it!! Are a good portion of the people working in A&R for American labels douchebags (I think it's a requisite to work in A&R anywhere, not just in the US)?
Is any of what I said anti-American (here we go again...)?
I spent all day yesterday in the United States with some of the kindest, most genuine people I have ever met ANYWHERE and they know how I feel about the United States!! I won't try to convince you... You obviously hear what you want to hear.
So Shroeder... Am I a twat? A big one? Possibly? At least, I don't resort to name calling or getting personal in public forums, so that says something.
If you don't agree with what I've said, please feel free to voice your opinion in a constructive way... |
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Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Schroeder lives in the UK so I imagine he has a pretty good handle on the things of which you speak. |
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March 2010
Posts: 370
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | So then, a difference of opinion... fair enough. |
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March 2005
Posts: 12761
Location: Boise, Idaho | I never figured Schroeder for a guy who liked rap. |
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January 2006
Posts: 1487
Location: Michigan | come on boys lets play nice with each other :mad: for crying out loud its getting close to christmas .only 75 more days to go .
now i want both of you to listen to this nice christmas song and make up :D GWB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XNQdxlRm9c |
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March 2010
Posts: 370
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba CANADA | Good idea GWB... humming along now... hmm hmm hmm :D
Back on the subject of audio formats (think that's what we were talking about?)... Anyone here into the DVD-A format?
Personally, I think it just confuses the market even more than it is, but would like to hear your opinions... |
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Joined:
April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | Originally posted by Avatar4550:
Anyone here into the DVD-A format?
Personally, I think it just confuses the market even more than it is, but would like to hear your opinions... My player handles all formats and I have DVD-Audio, HD-Audio, DTS-Audio and probably some others I am not thinking of.
Some of the music in these formats is FABULOUS! I love to sit and listen to a well mastered CD and be immersed in the music.
Some sound like crap and should have never been remastered and left alone in their original format.
A typical case in that the public was 1) confused 2) had to buy MORE equipment to play the content 3) marketing was spotty and sucked 4) cost in most cases was too high.
Another great idea destroyed by corporate greed. |
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August 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: Marlton, NJ | Stephen (or any of you other audiophiles) - have you had any experience with anything like this?
High End Ipod Doc
It seems like a nice bridge from ipod to higher end audio. |
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August 2002
Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
In the USA, buyers are easily influenced. And CD's are much cheaper to produce than vinyl. Then they charge more money for the CD's than for the vinyl. I'd like to know where this is! When I price out CD vs. Vinyl for a new purchase, Vinyl is usually 2x the price of the CD. |
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April 2004
Posts: 13303
Location: Latitude 39.56819, Longitude -105.080066 | OMA's statement was probably true....20+ years ago!!!
Now, new release VINYL is always in that $20-30 price range (at least for the ones I would be interested in)! |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | That is consistent with the Price of Materials and the demand for Vinyl in the USA.
(or lack of demand)
CD's are cheap... I have a stack that I paid 10¢ apiece for.
So they are less than a penny apiece for the industry.
Whereas vinyl must be purposely made for each album.
CD's can start-out blank and be an album in 2 minutes on my slow PC. |
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December 2001
Posts: 7247
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest | The Europe music scene is completely different animal. Amazing actually. Spent a bit of time in Europe around 2000-2001. MTV not only plays music, but they play LOCAL music as well as the established names. Clubs that have dance music have ALL kinds from hardcore house to country music if it fits the beat. Was in one particular bar, and while I don't remember the order, it was Ozzy, Skynard, Moody Blues, Irish Rovers and some local traditional and more rock... all over the map, back-back songs being played. Live music is well received on all levels. It's much easier to get a touring gig in Europe and at least where I went... even the "dives" had awesome sound systems. And, from what I hear, you can get distribution easier in Europe.
FWIW, I totally agree with John. Unless you go out and seek your own music, we are targets of what the US based "music industry" tells us is music. Music on the radio, in the stores, and what's written about in the mainstream, are all based on demographics and investment etc.. and have little if anything to do with "quality" or even any musical influence at all. It's what sells. Period. Gone are the days when on the radio you'd here "and check out this new up and coming artist" unless those are the words used by the marketing team when they paid for that song to be played at a particular time.
But don't get me started.....
Just look at the "top 10" etc charts from around the world.
Of course "the Hof" still sells out arenas in Germany... so maybe that kinda blows the whole EU credibility thing... :) |
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Purchasing music.... the new normal?