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Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi,
I am thinking buying a 2778AX and was wondering if anyone has any opinions on quality, how it compares to the LX model, etc. Tks Ernie |
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December 2008
Posts: 1456
Location: Texas | LX = Made in USA (and discontinued)
AX = Made in Asia
Opinions vary from "no comparison" to "close" but I don't recall ANYONE claiming that the AX is an improvement…
If I were looking for one, I'd try to grab an LX if I could still find one somewhere, even if I had to scrape up a few more $$ for it…
just my 2¢… |
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Location: Nashville TN. | The LX is worth the extra money. |
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Posts: 121
Location: NH | I don't know if this helps or not but I picked up a 2771LX just before they moved them off shore, and I absolutely enjoy this guitar. I've never played an AX of any kind, so I don't know how they compare. My personal opinion is that AX can't be much different from the LX, but given how much I like mine, I don't think I'll ever know. :D |
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Posts: 1249
Location: Texas | We love American. It has become the exception to own something home grown.
But there are not any tangible qualifiers that I can find in the replies that helps solve the mystery of AX vs LX. Nothing comparing the sound, touch, finish, durability...
I am not sure as to the origin of the stickers for the new Folklores, but it certainly is poor QC by Ovation. And this type of oversight only supports the "cheap" rap of asain made instruments.
Folklore or Folkore?
It will probably take a couple more years, but I would imagine that if fit and finish hold up, the only reason to choose an LX will be good ol American pride. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Few things to consider.
USA LX's have a bolt-on neck that can be reset if necessary.
I have reset a bolt-on neck myself.
Or your Luthier or the MotherShip can do it.
AX's have a dove-tail glue-on neck, like a Celebrity.
The MotherShip will not fix an AX, even a New AX doesn't have a Lifetime Warranty
Once it is broke... it is fodder for the trashcan.
If you are patient you can find a used LX.
A 6778LX just sold for $400.
And No... in a coupla years import crap will still be import crap.
I own many nice Indonesian and Korean guitars.
The USA Ovations are Still Better. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Utah | The few AX guitars I've seen have not had the same fit and finish as LX. The neck construction is different, in addition to be dovetailed it isn't one piece or 5 piece, the heel is multiple pieces as well.
The little details just aren't as good, either. As much as people complain about lousy quality or craftsmanship in America, the guitars built in New Hartford (Ovation, Adamas, Hamer, Guild) just have a level of attention to detail that is missing from the AX and TX. Paint is not quite masked properly, the edges of sound holes aren't as smooth, the fretwork isn't as good.
All of that adds up to a cheaper import, so it is good for the corp. And compared to other guitars in the same price range it is adequate. The AX is a lot cheaper than a new LX, so they aren't going to be the same.
For me, I'd either find a new LX hanging around a shop somewhere or buy a used LX, or have a custom guitar made at the factory. |
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Posts: 29
Location: Germany | Just a short thought:
If I were in your situation I'd ask myself if the difference in price (not so much in my personal opinion) is worth to remain unsure if I made the right decision.
Over the time it's cheaper to buy the best affordable from the beginning than climbing the stairs step by step. Believe me, I know what I'm writing about, as I had to pay for this knowledge... ;)
I'm not an American, but I like US manufactured guitars, because their sound, playability and overall quality convinced me. |
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February 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to look for an LX, or at least a model made in the US. Very limited selection here in music stores and most of the sellers on eBay.com won't ship to Canada. I always liked the look of the Elites but there is a 2771LX on eBay that looks nice although the price is a little high ($800) I think?. |
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Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi, I just bought a new 2771LX, I think I got a pretty good price and I've always found a lot of truth in the old saying..."You'll remember the quality long after you've forgotten the price!" Now my biggest problem is waiting for it to get here from California; I live in Newfoundland, any further east and I'd be speaking Gaelic. I've had (and sold unfortunately) a couple of Ovations over the years and it will be good to be back in the family. Thanks again. Ernie |
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Location: Warren,Pa. | Very happy for you Ernie!
Would love to make it to your part of the world someday. We drove to P.E.I., then all around Nova Scotia. Just didn't have it in us to go any further : ( Someday...
John. |
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Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains | I've ridden to Nova Scotia on a motorcycle and plan to do the same in Newfoundland in a couple of years. SWMBO loves the way residents maintain their flowers. I love the absence of traffic and easier-paced lifestyle. |
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Location: NH | Congrats Ernie!
Originally posted by EPynn:
I've always found a lot of truth in the old saying..."You'll remember the quality long after you've forgotten the price!" "old saying"? I've never heard it before. Now I'll never forget it. |
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Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Okay... How about "Buy the best and you only cry once!" |
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February 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | I don't know if the line about "You'll remember the quality..." is an old saying or not. Maybe I came up with it myself but then I'm getting pretty old and probably forgot. I haven't heard the one about "Buy the best..." but I will definitely use it. Thanks for all the input and for those who are thinking about coming to Newfoundland, it is well worth it. There are two distinct cultures in Canada, Quebec and Newfoundland (too bad we can't get along better!). A lot of music, theatre, the oldest street in North America and the most famous bar district in Canada, some of the most spectacular scenery on the planet. Places like L'anse aux Meadows, Gros Morne and Coast of Bays are definitely worth seeing. Trouble is, it is one of the biggest islands in the world (with the population of a small city)so it takes a while to get around. Thanks again and I'll let you know when my new toy arrives! |
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Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi,
It's been forever but just in case anyone is interested..the new Ovation 2771LX I bought some months ago never turned up. Lost courtesy of USPS. Looks like I'll get a refund in a few days so I'm looking again. There's a really nice 1667 on eBay. Very tempting!
Thanks
Ernie |
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Location: Upper Left USA | Ask Mr. Big, aka Alpep to call you and discuss options. |
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Posts: 121
Location: NH | Wow, Ernie. That's a bummer! So sorry to hear that. I think you really would have enjoyed that one. (How in this day, with electronic scanning and the size of the box, can that possibly get lost? :confused: )
There was an almost mint 2778LX out of FL on ebay a few weeks ago. But between a combination of not really needing it, and it being just beyond my financial threshold, I couldn't pull the trigger. (Actually, I think OMA alerted me to it through one of his PSA's over in the For Sale section. It didn't sell the first time and was relisted.) I wondered if it ended up going to you!
The good news is you'll get your money back. Now, again, you get your pick of the litter. Good luck. Let us know what you end up choosing. |
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Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi,
Still waiting for my refund. In the meantime there is an Ultra 2171 Contour GS on eBay. I know it's made in Korea but this one has a solid spruce top; one of my big reservations about the offshore Ovations is that they usually have plywood tops (I think). One big advantage is that it's in Canada so there wouldn't be any customs duty or brokerage fees. Just wondering if you have any opinions on the Ultra 2171?
Thanks
Ernie |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | I own a 2171. Excellent guitar for the money. Korean made and QA'd and setup in the US. Every bit as good as an AX. I paid less than $400 for mine brand new. |
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Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi,
This one has a starting bid of $399; it's new and includes the case. Doesn't seem like a bad price and a lot less than the one I bought and USPS lost. It was probably stolen so someone has a nice guitar...may the fleas of a thousand camels infest their..., well you know the rest! The Ultra is also a sunburst finish which I always liked. No bids yet and not a whole lot of people looking. May be because it's on eBay.ca and the seller only ships to Canada. Very tempting. I just got my refund so I may go for it. Thanks for the input. Ernie |
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Posts: 8307
Location: Tennessee | Mine was sunburst too ... Kimby-D likes it best of all my guitars for the way it looks. It's got that real red and yellow thing going on in the burst paint. Very asian the way it was done. The rosette is a nice abalone inlaid oak cluster motif like the recent Balladeers.
$399 with a case would be a nice deal on that guitar. |
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February 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Yeah, I've always really liked sunburst. There's also a beautiful Legend on eBay, it's an older model but looks great. It's a lot more money though and it's in the US so there are also custom duties and brokerage fees. At least my refund came through a little while ago. Ernie |
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Posts: 17
Location: Newfoundland, Canada | Hi,
This thread was left hanging so in case anyone is interested I should wind it up. I finally got my Ultra 2171-1 so I'm back in the family. I'd forgotten how comfortable the Ovation necks are and the contour body is a nice innovation. Nice guitar, used it the other night at a jam and was quite pleased. Now I need to find a 12 string!Tks Ernie |
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October 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | Originally posted by Old Man Arthur:
Few things to consider.
USA LX's have a bolt-on neck that can be reset if necessary.
I have reset a bolt-on neck myself.
Or your Luthier or the MotherShip can do it.
AX's have a dove-tail glue-on neck, like a Celebrity.
The MotherShip will not fix an AX, even a New AX doesn't have a Lifetime Warranty
Once it is broke... it is fodder for the trashcan.
Hmm, I thought there were some advantages to a dovetailed neck like a stronger physical connection between the neck and body, warmer tone and increased sustain. Of course it's more difficult to repair than a bolt on neck but geez, usually when you need a neck reset isn't this due to some problem in the soundboard causing the bridge to rise? The 2778 isn't a $5000 plus Taylor and if my 2778AX needed a neck reset, I'd buy a new guitar.
Anyone here ever played a 2778LX as well as the 2778AX model and have an opinion on their playability and sound quality? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.
Richard |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | Originally posted by rlovison:
The 2778 isn't a $5000 plus Taylor and if my 2778AX needed a neck reset, I'd buy a new guitar.
Richard That was my point... An LX is designed to Keep.
The AX is a throw-away guitar.
BTW-- Taylors have bolt-on necks.
Which look remarkably similar to USA Ovation neck attachments.
I cannot find the photo I was looking for... but here is one from The Wizz that sorta shows the similarity...
I cannot find a photo of an LX neck joint, and I ain't gonna take one of mine apart to show you...
But USA Ovations had/have a repairable neck joint for much less than $5000.
And yes, I know that a well-made guitar should not need a neck reset for a long time...
But the fact that AX's and Celebrity's are made in a way that is unrepairable does not give me confidence that they are made to last a long time. Yes, they don't cost $5000, but $600+ for an AX is still a lot of money to a lot of people. |
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Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | Thanks for posting the photographs.
I called KMC Music and asked if the 2778AX could have its neck reset. I was told it could and any authorized Ovation repair shop should be able to do it. I was also told that it had a lifetime warranty though of course labor and materials for the first two years and just materials after that. Since I only paid $338 for it new, I doubt I would pay to have a neck reset after two years as the cost would probably be more than what I paid. Of course, that might change if I become attached to it. :)
When I asked why the decision was made to change to a dovetailed joint, the tech said he didn't know as they are not told the reasons for design changes.
I'm more interested in the playability and quality of sound in a guitar but if both are the same in the LX and AX models, I would have preferred an LX. |
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Posts: 2985
Location: Sydney, Australia | Originally posted by rlovison:
Of course it's more difficult to repair than a bolt on neck but geez, usually when you need a neck reset isn't this due to some problem in the soundboard causing the bridge to rise?
Richard [/QB] The last photo posted by OMA (from the Wizz) is my 12 string, which The Wizz refretted and re-set the neck. It's an Adamas and the top is as flat as a marathon runner's belly. It's an early '80s model and probably has another 25 years worth of running in it. |
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October 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | I'm not sure what the true feelings are that are being expressed in some of the posts in this thread but I'll try and clarify mine a bit more.
First off, I do not consider my new 2778AX to be "Asian junk" nor do I consider it a "throw away guitar". Each one of those phrases carries a lot of baggage. I do understand the sentiment that some prefer Ovation guitars to be constructed in the U.S. and that the quality may have suffered due to outsourcing the manufacturing to Asia. I actually feel the same way and have the same concerns but until the rest of the world catches up to our standard of living (or we fall to theirs :) ), these are the kinds of problems that won't be going away any time soon. I don't know the reasons why Ovation shifted the manufacturing of some of their guitars overseas but quite possibly if they hadn't, Ovation might have ceased to exist and we would be without the guitars we have so grown to love.
Anyway, with whatever years I have left to live I doubt I'll need to reset the neck on the 2778AX and most likely if I continue playing to the degree I am now, I'll probably be looking for a more expensive guitar within a few years as my skills increase. In the short period of time that I've owned the 2778AX, I've grown attached to it, loving the sound as well as how it feels when I play it. It has been a welcome replacement for my almost 40 year old Balladeer and I'm extremely grateful for being able to find a guitar of this quality at such a reasonable price.
Our world is a strange place. The art of making anything and quality of craftsmanship is continuing to decline due to the way our financial system works. For most it's all about money, survival and competition, isn't it? And now the world seems to be ruled by people who make money by producing nothing. Oh well.
Richard |
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Location: Flahdaw | Originally posted by rlovison:
And now the world seems to be ruled by people who make money by producing nothing. Oh well.
Richard We should go back to the good ol' feudal societies when you could get rich just being a peasant. |
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Posts: 22
Location: Massachusetts | Originally posted by dark bar:
We should go back to the good ol' feudal societies when you could get rich just being a peasant. Nah, how about we move forward and try to imagine something more compassionate and cooperative than what we have now? :) I sure like my new Ovation standard elite. :D |
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Posts: 260
Location: Spain | Great replies, and reasoning, from Richard, but as a "soon to be Ovation owner", I can't help but think that if I get a Korean made one, I'll always wonder how much better the USA guitars are, and also will have to put up with people always telling me "oh you have an ovation, ah yeah but it's not a real one is it.."
I know that's not THAT important...but it's there |
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February 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Warren,Pa. | Design-wise, the biggest difference between the US and Asian O's is the CNC neck. So now you can get an O for $500-600 less than you used to.
If I may make a comparison: My wife and I bought a 3yr old Chrysler T&C with 30k mi. for $10k. My daughter and her husband bought a 3yr old Honda Odessy with 30k mi. for $26k. The Honda is a better van and will probably last for more trouble-free miles than my T&C. But I could afford to buy my van. My daughter and her husband make a lot more money than we do so they could afford the Honda.
Did I buy a junk van? No. Would I rather have a Honda? Yes. But I paid $16,000 less for what I have...and that's just fine with me.
These are not my only feelings about this subject, but this is a valid perspective. |
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Posts: 10777
Location: Keepin' It Weird in Portland, OR | I wish that my sig line in the Archives didn't update itself...
Not long ago I was the proud owner of a 4861 Korean Balladeer,
along with a CC44, a GC057, a CS257, a CC57...
Those were what I could afford, and they were great guitars.
I wish that I would see another CS255 SSB 12-String with an OP-30 when I have money.
I hope nobody was thinking that I was belittling anyone for buying Asian Ovations/Celebrity/Ultras.
But! If we are comparing a USA 2778LX with a Korean 2778AX (which I though we were) I want the LX.
If we were comparing a 1718 with a 1537... I'd want the 1537.
You get what you can afford.
I might also add that in the near future 2778LX's with be really scarce... They already are!
So all other things being equal.... :p |
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Posts: 30
Location: Russia, Moscow | Just my 2 cents.
I haven't had a chance yet to compare 2778LX and AX side by side, but I've tried and owned several USA, Chinese, and Korean-made Ovations. Now I have CSD225, 2758AX and 2778AX.
2778AX has dovetail neck joint, like vintage Ovations had. Just look at the older Balladder or Pacemaker models. Craftmanship is very fine, I dont't have any complaints, but for some minor things. Most people will never pay attention to these things. The solid spruce tops are fine, bracing is made very accurately.
I played 1758, and I can say: 2078AX has more open and more 'acoustic' sound to my ears.
To make a long story short, these AX guitars are just good guitars for their price. These are just workhorses, you can rely on anytime and play them just everywhere. And if you need a neck reset, every skilled luthier will do that. |
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Stand Elite 2778 AX vs LX